Qprogue Mafia - Game Over

[MancerNecro]

True. Do we really want to risk Xinnidy though. Tbh, I'd rather just make the disabler stay on me personally. My actions are also permanent once both Poly and I have made our moves provided our targets are still alive.

[Belisarius]

So let me get this straight. Via is scum because they had a scumread you disagree with, and because they defended someone who flipped town? This makes no sense.

Well you didn't cause that's not what I said.

Belisarius, you did ignore most of the wagons because you failed to address anything but self-defence and a really awkward eclipse scumread. You had time to comment anything when you were defending yourself, you simply unvoted. Please address the case in full rather than picking off of one line.

In your actual content post, I'd wish if you expanded on the other interactions you found Quote scummy for.

I can't say I follow your eclipse read as you automatically declare her as scum trying to quicklynch you when re-reading wagons makes that notion kinda questionable.

Some explanation on who you think is scum in Elie's wagon would be appreciated considering you brought that topic but immediately put it down to talk about townreads.

Actually I didn't have time to comment which is exactly why I simply unvoted. I wasn't going to make a read on a topic. Not sure what case you're referring to, but if there was anything else worth addressing I would have.

I've addressed what I thought made Quote scummy. If you're asking about the end of the first sentence, I was referring to how he kept mentioning a BBM scumread without actually saying why.

What do the wagons have to do with it? Many people had said they found me scummy from my eclipse vote and going for an easy target like I was in that instance read like an easy and reactionary attempt.

Uh no I didn't, I commented on Marth's unvote swing which I also mostly attributed to hydra mayor and townread Mancer in the same post. Only other person to switch from Marth to Elie was BBM and he had voted Elie initially and long before the lynch.

Xinnidy I'd prefer you didn't vig me. Currently thinking Shin because she is doing a lot of Rapier defending for someone who looks like they're scumreading him every other post.

[Shin]

Yo, I'm about to head out to work. I'll address the points people have made later. Don't shoot me for now, it would suck!

[charlie_]

One thing, I'm fairly sure that wasn't a public tracker (but can't say more than this because if I'm right it outs someone's role), so I wouldn't let that influence your vote.

Catching up now.

[charlie_]

I'm also wondering why Randa/NNR was killed over BBM who had no suspicion on him at all day 1 iirc, but ???

[Zkirsche]

We should still select wind. Although I'm thinking it isn't public tracker either, British Brain for Life.

##unvote

##vote: Rapier yes my Refa vote was just a prodvote.

[BBM]

not true; Via voted me on D1 and even though leading a mislynch doesn't make me scum, it certainly doesn't make me look good. And while I get killed a lot, I'm not such a high priority NAMEKILL TARGET that I get killed even when I'm a potential mislynch candidate.

wait Mancer, is the disabler only for the next night? If so wouldn't Xinny just be immune on basis of being a dayvig?

[charlie_]

It doesn't matter because Xinny is ascetic, it won't be able to screw with her anyway.

[MancerNecro]

The disabler has me disabled for day 2 and night 2. So if Xinnidy is to lose her ascetic role, the disabler will disable her dayvig shot.

[MancerNecro]

Tbh I say we take a bet and leave the boulder there.

Here are the reasons why I think we should:

1) No one can target Xinnidy so I think that includes the night kill as well.

2) There's a disabler around. We do not want Xinnidy to permanently lose her ability to dayvig due to being targeted permanently by the disabler.

3) I'm inclined to believe that the Archer class is what allowed us to see that kirsche targeted eclipse and I think I'd want that ability to function on as it can help to catch potential scum in their killing roles and/or actions.

Also, Xinnidy, just lock in a kill whenever you are on. The flip can help us to check our reads and help us to lynch scum better.

[Zkirsche]

Hang on, Refa is "census taker" the role where you see how many mafioso were on the main lynch?

[Shin]

Xinnidy I'd prefer you didn't vig me. Currently thinking Shin because she is doing a lot of Rapier defending for someone who looks like they're scumreading him every other post.

I'm not defending Rapier, I think Rapier looks bad. The problem I'm having is that Rapier's play is generally suspect so it's difficult to be 100% sure it's scum. I am not townreading Rapier, I would not be opposed in any way to a Rapier lynch - he's just not an obvious "let's lynch him and forget".

Xin, thanks for reading! My answer to why I think there was scum on the Eli wagon is because of how the middle progressed. A lot of votes piled quickly, especially since it sat on two votes for a fair while. To those who disliked my comments to Eli before his lynch, he was saying from his point of view he isn't scum. However, my point was that because we're not in his point of view, we can't follow his line of logic. It was more of a say why his defense wasn't valid more than anything else.

My vote was to catch Refa's attention, hence why I asked for him to respond to my vote, even before kirsche admitting to prodding him. I figured I'd get him to address my points on him, which I felt would be more effective than an empty prod. Note how I never actual call him scummy. There are points about his play which are starkly different from the usual Refa premium standard, so I wanted to get to the bottom of that. Your content from D1 wasn't the usual Refa stuff, that's the issue I took with it in retrospect... I was kinda not really noticing you that much D1, which is weird because in past games you're like everywhere! Like D1 was a Rapier vote, joke posts, disagreeing with stuff and saying you need to read stuff. It's a generalization, but it's the general feel I got.

tldr: I wanted to get Refa's attention because his play during D1 didn't feel like him in previous games.

##Unvote

I'll post some more stuff later. Xin, I implore you not to shoot me for both our sakes!

[Shin]

Hang on, Refa is "census taker" the role where you see how many mafioso were on the main lynch?

If that's the case, it'd be pretty swag to get that running.

Before I get, BBM, inspired can be used to mean "lacking in creativity and vivaciousness" rather than the person being bored. That's what I meant. #TooBritishforyou

[Bluedoom]

Ok I've been busy the past couple of days and I'm REALLY out of time so I'll make this short:

Rapier is still good lynch candidate today and nothing he has done has changed my scumread over him. What I can't understand is how he can assume non-elemental roles are scum roles but mistake element for colour? It just feels like selective reading and btw THERE'S A FLIPPED NON-ELEMENTAL SWAPPER SO THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE. make me think he's scum BSing.

I'm not in favour of repeating the same element selection as D1 and it'd be nice to see the potential of other dark roles ( for example, Refa's census taker) so ##Select: Dark

As far as the vig candidate is concerned, I think Beli> Shin because Shin's D1 was much better than Beli's and I'm not scumreading him. I don't find any problems with his play D2 either and I think his Via vote was reasonable too. Beli didn't handle the stuff that was happening D1 well and even in his content post D2 his scumreads other than Quote basically get one-liner explanations that aren't really enough and it just feels half-assed to me.

[Bluedoom]

Actually wow he doesn't specifically flip as Non-Elemental Element Swapper but there's no reason for me to assume Elieson was lying about his element.

Ofc if Randarex was Non-Elemental too then their flip would make sense and all other roles flip with their elements? >_>

[charlie_]

I don't think that's a public tracker tbh, but I'm not saying what it is because it screws with roles. We're not voting in dark for the sake of Refa's role to find out that it's only numbers, or something like that. Census Taker is totally different than Sensor.

Please point to where Via holds a solid opinion on Eli backed up by anything. The townread is sways a lot, there's no consistent "I think Eli is town", it's very fluffy.

Just because it isn't explicitly stated, doesn't mean its consistent. And I'm pretty sure you know that's how Via plays anyway so I'm kind of wary that you're harping on this?

@SB

I didn't read it wrong, only town has elements.

"The collective town has six classes", "Each day, players vote for the town's two classes as well as the lynch". Therefore, I assume scum are non elementals.

I'm fairly sure that this just refers to the game in general, rather than specifically the town? Or at least that was what I guessed whilst I was reading along?

@Mod, are scum roles restricted by classes as well?

I'm good with the Shin cases. I feel like he made a lot of weird prodvotes and there's a lot of the time where his slot is just kind of there, without any kind of scumreads. He admits his Poly read at the start wasn't strong but then doesn't end up getting a stronger vote until crunch time where he comes out with an Eli vote despite mentioning nothing of him beforehand and only has like, one line on him afterwards. It's also weird how Shin goes into today with a vote on my slot, and then seems to have forgotten about all of his earlier scumreads. His empty unvote on my slot doesn't really make sense either considering he's still poking at me (for bad reasons) and then he goes into a Refa vote that is basically "Refa is lazy" then says it was a reaction test meaning he still doesn't have any strong reads? I'm pretty sure Shin would be pursuing something as town here, but he just doesn't have the kind of gusto I expect from him as town.

One thing I find weird about Beli was how he said he liked how people overreacted to his eclipse vote... but then never actually examined the responses. Your Via read also doesn't make sense considering that Eli hadn't flipped by the time Via cased BBM, they thought that BBM looked scummy in general based off of it, rather than due to Eli being town and they even said that their Eli read had nothing to do with it? And why wouldn't town defend their townreads, calling that scummy makes no sense. eclipse was also never going to be able to quicklynch you so your read on her looks kind of like a smear attempt to me. Also, if your vote is still on me why aren't you reading my posts?

Marth just saying "meh Rapier hasn't done anything to improve my read on him" is kind of questionable, especially when the only thing he really looks at in Rapier's posts is a logical fallacy more than something that's actually scummy? I also don't get why you want Beli vigged over Rapier if he's your top scumread, but okay. I do think your point on Beli distancing is pretty legit though, regardless of what alignment you are.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

Would prefer Beli to be vigged and Shin lynched tbh. BBM looks a bit better but I'm still kind of paranoid there.

[Zkirsche]

Oh right I thought I didn't recognise the role. Yeah we're still choosing wind today.

Ok with a shin lynch and a Beli shot.

[Refa]

He who has piece of mind disturbs neither himself nor another.

Hang on, Refa is "census taker" the role where you see how many mafioso were on the main lynch?

No, I wish. It just lets me select an element and see how many abilities with that element exist in the setup.

[Zkirsche]

That's terrible.

[charlie_]

which is why you should all vote in holy instead 8D

[Shin]

Just because it isn't explicitly stated, doesn't mean its consistent. And I'm pretty sure you know that's how Via plays anyway so I'm kind of wary that you're harping on this?

I don't actually ever recall playing a game with Via, but that's a moot point. The only reason I keep referring to it is because you keep bringing it up. I am not poking you, I made my points on Via and have had no current issues with you. Via came across as very vague on his read of Eli, I'm not going to repeat that any further.

I would like to mention that my lynch is detrimental for town, I'm very surprised that nobody's figured it out yet. A reaction test is when you do it to see how people react, I wanted Refa's attention not because I thought he was lazy but because he is not acting as typical Refa has in the past. It's not that I've forgotten about my previous reads, Rapier and Beli have both been very quiet. I think you could appreciate that just because I don't refer to other reads that I've made in the past, doesn't mean they don't exist.

##Vote: Rapier

I was meaning to vote earlier but I kinda got distracted by stuff. Rapier has vanished now he's out of the spotlight and seems quite happy to take a backseat. As I've said several times before, my death would be bad for town.

[Zkirsche]

which is why you should all vote in wind instead 8D

Don't worry SB I fixed the typo for you.

[charlie_]

Don't worry SB I fixed the typo for you.

##Dayvig: kirsche

[charlie_]

I would like to mention that my lynch is detrimental for town, I'm very surprised that nobody's figured it out yet. A reaction test is when you do it to see how people react, I wanted Refa's attention not because I thought he was lazy but because he is not acting as typical Refa has in the past. It's not that I've forgotten about my previous reads, Rapier and Beli have both been very quiet. I think you could appreciate that just because I don't refer to other reads that I've made in the past, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Any town death is detrimental to town, so ???. I know what a reaction test is, but when you have no other reads and don't even get something out of the reaction test it's pretty bad. And yes, I assumed that your Rapier and Beli reads vanished considering you kept resorting to empty unvotes when you could've gone after them instead.

[Shin]

Any town death is detrimental to town, so ???. I know what a reaction test is, but when you have no other reads and don't even get something out of the reaction test it's pretty bad. And yes, I assumed that your Rapier and Beli reads vanished considering you kept resorting to empty unvotes when you could've gone after them instead.

The latter point is fair enough, but I've heavily implied my death is bad, for town and for Xin. HINT HINT.