How would the shapeshifters technologically advance?

[sirmola]

Shapeshifters that need stones to transform won't survive if their stones get stolen or destroyed.

Gotoh, xane, any reclassed manakete in awakening, (and nills/ninian if you count noncombat skills) would beg to differ. Although it as true that many manakets don't have the ability to defend themselves when their stones break, this is by no means true of all of them. Also, i assume that dragonstones recharge or reform over a period of years.

Edited October 23, 2014 by sirmola

[bookofholsety]

to say nothing of bantu! already really old, loses his dragonstone twice, deliberately throws it away once fe3/12's events are over with... but if nowi's testimony is anything to go by he's still alive and well in fe13. though obviously having them at hand is preferable if you're looking to survive considering how weak the manakete form itself is, it isn't absolutely, critically necessary for manaketes to depend on their dragonstones; indeed, it's pointed out that their use is actually physically taxing to them

Edited October 24, 2014 by bookofholsety

[Dragoncat]

Can we get back to the topic at hand please...this is just arguing about stones and evolving and stuff like that.

[CT075]

it's completely relevant - if we can establish that the laguz evolved to use their stones as a defense mechanism, what's to say that they can't evolve further against the threat of weapons?

on its face the question isn't an interesting one regardless; the answers come down to "they'd get slaughtered" or "they use the technology themselves". by introducing the factor of evolution, we can open the possibility of a further adaptation (i, for one, love the idea of bulletproof lions)

Edited October 24, 2014 by CT075

[Dragoncat]

it's completely relevant - if we can establish that the laguz evolved to use their stones as a defense mechanism, what's to say that they can't evolve further against the threat of weapons?

on it's face the question isn't an interesting one regardless; the answers come down to "they'd get slaughtered" or "they use the technology themselves". by introducing the factor of evolution, we can open the possibility of a further adaptation (i, for one, love the idea of bulletproof lions)

I guess I was getting at that this thread is turning into a big argument about whether or not the stones thing would happen. I for one see the stones as more of a gameplay thing, they can probably shift without them, but they might be considerably weaker.

I love the bulletproof lion thing too. Badass.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

About stones, there's one thing they allow manakete to do that I'm fairly sure they can't do without, in older FEs, Tiki could use dragonstones from any tribe, she could be a fire dragon, mage dragon, etc. I always thought this would give versatility and a adaptability, from an adaptation standpoint.

Edited October 25, 2014 by L95

[Magical Glace]

About stones, there's one thing they allow manakete to do that I'm fairly sure they can't do without, in older FEs, Tiki could use dragonstones from any tribe, she could be a fire dragon, mage dragon, etc. I always thought this would give versatility and a adaptability, from an adaptation standpoint.

She's like that in the remakes too... in fact, they all are, except Non-Divine Dragons get no Divinestones.

Also noteworthy is Fae... She can use Firestones with a glitch.

[Axie]

Purely hypothetical topic here. There will most likely never be things like guns and cars in FE...but imagine for a second say, Tellius had 21st century technology. The beorc no longer use swords/axes/lances/etc, guns are the main weapon. How would the laguz respond to that? If somebody's shooting at you with a rifle, turning into a saber toothed tiger wouldn't work as self defense. Even though there is bows in the medieval setting, guns are faster and more accurate...

Do you think they'd put cyborg attachments on their animal forms? Bullet proof vests? Or do you think they'd stop shifting all together and use guns like the beorc?

Laguz can survive magic (not that well if it's the one they are weak to, but still), I find it hard to believe they'd have so much of a problem with guns. Even if they did, they are proud and against the weapons of the beorc, so I doubt they'd use any of their improvements. Laguz would either tough it out or find a non-beorc way (I'm not sure what it would be though).

[sirmola]

She's like that in the remakes too... in fact, they all are, except Non-Divine Dragons get no Divinestones.

Also noteworthy is Fae... She can use Firestones with a glitch.

That probably because the developers wanted fire dragons to have the "hides damage" property for their attacks, and were too lazy to add that property to another weapon lock for a weapon that the player was not supposed to be able to obtain, so they used the same weapon lock. (this probably also explains why myrrh can use monster weapons)

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Laguz can survive magic (not that well if it's the one they are weak to, but still), I find it hard to believe they'd have so much of a problem with guns. Even if they did, they are proud and against the weapons of the beorc, so I doubt they'd use any of their improvements. Laguz would either tough it out or find a non-beorc way (I'm not sure what it would be though).

Well, the thing is, bullets are essentially throwing metal balls really, really, hard. If they can be stabbed by a sword, I don't see why bullets would be ineffective.

[Axie]

Oh, I'm not saying they'd be ineffective, but if laguz have survived magic specifically aimed to defeat them, I don't think bullets would signifcantly overpower them, either.

[Baldrick]

Is this in gameplay terms? In that case, beorc would be just as bulletproof, because they can also survive magic and effective weaponry. In plot terms, it is mentioned that ballistae and fire magic are quite effective against Laguz, and Daein not having them in 3-6 and 3-7 makes them much easier than Begnion for the LA to handle.

[Axie]

Everything can be explained in gameplay; after all, in reality we would all die as easily from giant fireballs and thunderbolts as we would from gunshots I was talking about the plot; they make a point of saying certain magic can easily defeat laguz in the plot, and still they are still alive and fighting despite such a weakness, so I'm led to believe they would survive guns, too.

The plot would need explicitly say guns are lethal to beorc and laguz, as they are to us in reality, and in that case, both beorc and laguz would need to become bulletproof by one mean or another or else gameplay wouldn't be fun. It's easy to make the beorc bulletproof, but as I said, the laguz wouldn't use the same methods as the beorc; they'd probably work on transforming into stronger beasts that could survive the gunshots.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Axie