CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Zkirsche]

kirsche, why are town more impulsive about outing a unique role than scum is if they want towncred? It's not like the role can do anything hidden so ???

Well, if I had that role I'd just out it ASAP because I see no reason to sit on it, but if I were scum with wit I'd maybe ask my teammates on when to out, how etc just because I'd be more conservative as scum. I forgot there was an N0 this game though so scum!Mitsuki would have discussed the role by RVS anyway, meaning the fact that Mitsuki didn't means nothing either way. Even more than that, comparing Mitsuki to me is like comparing rainbows to storm clouds so I'm going to drop this line.

Kirsche what do you think of BBM townreading Paperblade on his D1 content?

I've already mentioned how he never explicitly went "Paper is town" even while defending him. I just briefly skimmed his ISO to see where he does "PB's D1 content is pretty townie" and all I can find is a bunch of argument's against people's cases which is irritating. Chainsaw defending. Then he says it's difficult to read PB now because of meta stuff, so sticks with a town read based on tone from a few posts. Stuff like this is basically why he's on my to watch list.

I thought about it but SHin did explain later in D2 that his ote was " part reaction test part elaboration"

That is exactly what I take issue with though, because he only explained a phase after people were reading him better because of it. He just accepted the towncred and coasted on it until called out on it, and even now he's dodging the topic as I'm pretty sure he hasn't made any kind of defence to this point.

The only player who looks like they're your SCUMREAD is BBM, and you're not even voting him!

He did mention he agreed with Mancer cases tbf. Why would scum give themselves a bunch of townreads and nothing else though? That just limits their options.

The "BBM townreading paperblade on D1 content" is a misrep though. ;/

Scum should shoot friendly neighbour Marth so we can actually lynch people for scummy behaviour without going "would they do this as scum?" every single time.

Paper's content post is exactly what I've been looking for from him so I'm happy with him. He should vote though.

About 4 different people have gone "yeah kirsche is kinda cool I guess but MAYBE NOT" D: I preferred it when people were just like "yeah kirsche is awesome!"

Nothing wrong with Shin's #656, which makes a pleasant change. The reason for being happy with me is dodgy because being wrong doesn't get you lynched (hence why people on the Randa wagon aren't getting heavily criticised for that) but bad reasoning alone isn't scummy and it doesn't feel scum motivated? Don't really agree with the SB case though, would be cool if he explained the contradiction in more detail.

Still should lynch here though imo #tunnelvision. Or Mancer/BBM, but Mancer's recent post read better to me and I feel like this read might be outdated.

Shin >> Mancer = BBM rn.

There's almost surely scum amongst the lurkers. Larsa/Shinori/Poly I'm calling you out. Euklyd could do with more stuff as well, I get not wanting to parse through all of D1 but at least ISO Shin or something.

[charlie_]

@Refa, I think it's possible, yeah, but Paper isn't completely incapable of casing town (see FE6 tunneling Marth) so I wouldn't write it off as that. I DO think BBM is independently scummy on his own though (still not super sure on which I'd rather lynch tbh) and hard defending is a thing. It's also possible that Paper wouldn't vote his buddy!Shin if Shin had a stronger role (or just based on sheer numbers if the game has similar numbers to CY'OR1) or stuff like that so I don't think it's telling.

And we have no guarantee a Safeguard exists atm (and I don't think Prims likes Safeguard that much either?) so yeah. Better to have the watcher on it than anything else imo.

@Shin, I changed my mind on the meta stuff because the stuff from town meta!Paper has started to be overshadowed by scum meta!Paper, and some of the stuff I mentioned he wasn't doing like avoiding wagons (on you, Junko, complaining about Randa etc) has changed since then and there's no real reasons given for it other than "I disagree" so yeah. The other stuff I mentioned can be easily gamed by Paper if he knows about it and in hindsight wasn't that strong anyway so yeah. The turnaround was kind of sudden because Paper didn't really post enough for my opinion on him to change until recently either.

I think I had something to say to kirsche but forgot what it was after reading posts again. Oops.

[Refa]

SB, what do you think about Shin?

[Refa]

[spoiler=Dormio]

He made an early case on kirsche that I still think is forced, but probably isn't as scummy as I made it out to be. However, since then, he's just tunneled on Shin and hasn't seriously analyzed anyone else. Are you lyncher because you sure are playing like it. Like he has a wallpost full of surface level reads and not much else. His insomniac posts are OK (don't agree with his Junko case, his Paperblade case is fine for the time, his Rein case is OK I guess, and his turnaround on Shin is baffling). Also his reasoning for voting Paperblade is kind of weak and I'd like him to actually analyze Paperblade's wall post.

Overall: Null. Duh (D1/insomniac content is good, don't like his D2 content though).

[spoiler=Junk]

Dude's making an active effort to gather reads, and while it's different than I'm normally used too, SB said he played similarly in his most recent town game so that is a thing. He also brings up some legitimate points so...Don't like how he voted Mancer even though I said not too, but that's not really scummy and nothing that he's done has particularly bothered me. Also Eurykins should be an easier read overall...right? Right?

Overall: Town. Maybe (would like more content from him, but that applies to like everyone).

[spoiler=kirsche]

Miller claim is pretty good (especially considering how stingy Prims has been with giving scum fakeclaims), totally forgot about it FSR. Other than that, his content is mostly agreable and I don't really have any major issues with it (I know this is pretty much what Bizz said, but...I'm Refa, so it's different). Only thing that really gives me pause is the Shin tunnel, but I don't know if he'd be so blatant about it as scum and it seems like he's actually looking at Shin's content rather than dismissing everything as scummy. Ugh, not as sure about Shin anymore.

Overall: kirsche is awesome. Also town. Duh.

[spoiler=Mitsuki]

I'll be honest, most of my read on her is based on her role. Her early post was fine (even though I don't agree with eclipse being so high -heh- but she explained it later I guess). Read other posts of mine to find out detailed thoughts, but overall I think it's townie despite some gripes I have with it overall. Don't really agree with her SB case, though.

Overall: Town. Probably.

[spoiler=SB]

My biggest issue is his lack of posts, but that applies to most people so *shrugs*. Whenever he does post, I find myself agreeing with most of the content within so that is a thing (the only exceptions are his Marthipan read and his later Paperblade read). My only issue with SB is that in essence he's 3goodatbeingscum5me, which means I'm always at least sort of suspicious of him. If he had some good associative reads to his name, I'd probably feel better about this slot overall.

Overall: Town. Probably (inb4 SK).

Two more to go!

[charlie_]

Conflicted. His content hasn't been great but at the same time the only thing I found weird today was his Mancer interactions. I guess I wouldn't outright object to a lynch but I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it either.

[Refa]

Just going with this for now. Haven't ISO'd BBM/eclipse yet, but 90% sure I wouldn't be voting eclipse anyways so only BBM is really a factor. *Sigh* I'm feeling really off this game for some reason.

##Vote: Paperblade

[Refa]

All of these people viewing the thread at the same time makes me nervous. :<

Also Randa should totally doc me no bias. I mean, I can't really do much of anything more but CONFIRMED TOWN/10.

[charlie_]

Arranging doc targets in thread is not a good idea :V

[Paperblade]

SB most of my town reads are because of role shenanigans/rolespec. I'm also not sure what question of Marth's I dodged? Are you talking about the counterwagons one? I'd rather not be a wagon at all but Marth is content to tunnel me over it, but I have to pick a top scumread I guess?

I did think I was voting BBM though, so does that answer the question or do I need to spell it out?

I'm starting to think one out of Marth/SB is mafia but I'm not sure if that's just me being overdefensive

[Paperblade]

Also Refa why are you voting me

[Refa]

@Refa, I think it's possible, yeah, but Paper isn't completely incapable of casing town (see FE6 tunneling Marth) so I wouldn't write it off as that. I DO think BBM is independently scummy on his own though (still not super sure on which I'd rather lynch tbh) and hard defending is a thing. It's also possible that Paper wouldn't vote his buddy!Shin if Shin had a stronger role (or just based on sheer numbers if the game has similar numbers to CY'OR1) or stuff like that so I don't think it's telling.

Pretty much being satisfied with this explanation.

[Paperblade]

That case is idiotic, he is basically waving off concerns as "Well Shin is mafia too" when you don't even know if Shin is mafia, and SB clearly doesn't know me as well as he thinks he does

[Paperblade]

Actually yeah I don't like this one bit

##Vote: SB

[Paperblade]

I want everyone to take note of the mental gymnastics SB has to go through to paint my actions as scummy

[charlie_]

Was talking about this string of posts.

So paper, are you proposing bbm to be your counterwagon?

What kind of question is that

Aren't you scumreading him?

I dunno who you're voting if you're even voting

It's not the fact you didn't answer the question, it was the fact that you semi-disappeared after Marth questioned you and didn't really answer it when you came back either.

And at the above, that wasn't why I found you scummy? It was why I didn't put much stock into Refa's points. I'm not using the Shin thing to push you (although I'll admit it's kind of weak) so much as explain why I disagreed with what Refa was townreading you for.

I might be getting tunnel visioned or something but idk, the sudden turnaround on me is also weird because you don't actually say why it's scummy instead of just "no you're wrong".

[Paperblade]

The point about Shin is a nonsensical leap in logic that doesn't make sense as coming from town unless you are tunneling hardcore

I thought I was voting BBM when I made that post so the question seemed stupid to me, on top of being loaded and showing that nothing was going I do will change Marth's mind

[Paperblade]

Honestly if we're gonna use my scum meta go look at how I react to wagons in my scum games (British, Fakeclaim) vs. my town games (big NOCs, Awakening)

[Refa]

Mreh, still don't think SB is scum because of a bad case; rereading BBM/eclipse, I guess.

[spoiler=BBM]

Didn't have any issues with his Dormio case, even if his meta was misapplied (like Dormio said, why would BBM deliberately misapply meta as scum; I don't view this particular point as being alignment relevant one way or the other). Don't really like his Marth case either, but it's not scummy. It just seems weird that that's his strongest case at that point in time when it's really based off of RVS content *shrugs*. Not sure if he'd straight out admit that his play would be tunnely as scum though... just seems kind of off. His Randa case was good but it bothered me that he didn't actually vote Randa and I dunno, his explanation wasn't particularly satisfactory in that regard. Meh, I dunno. It also seems weird that he spent all of Day 1 tunneling on Marth and then said that he said Marth didn't make sense as scum anymore based off of his eagerness to hammer Randa; it's just a bizzare reason to dismiss Marth, and I'm not really sure if it makes more sense coming from Scum!BBM or Town!BBM. Also his lack of reads seem genuine enough. Mreh.

Overall: Null. Duh (mostly towny overall, but I'm kind of suspicious of certain aspects of his play and Paperblade's case on him was legit so that's a thing, I guess).

[spoiler=eclipse]

Not sure what to make of her using her vote as two seperate votes. On one hand, it weakens her role, but on the other I can't see why scum would want to pressure two different people at once. Content wise, I don't really have any issues with her early stuff. Don't like how (later on) she's bothered by people for very specific things that aren't really alignment relevant (Marth's AtE, advocating a vig on Junko because she can't understand his train of thought), but everything else is good so meh; probably just a difference in playstyles.

Overall: Town. Duh.

Took a look at Paperblade's reactions in both of the games he mentioned (Big NOC's and British, because I have no idea what Awakening is and Fakeclaim was forever ago also biased perspective stoopid Elieson). His reads over there are lazier and less developed in general. He also didn't actually react at all to people casing him, at least from what I could tell. He spends a lot much more time analyzing posts (even more than here, but his play here is closer to Big NOCers than it is to British) and his reaction to SB is pretty much exactly the same, hilariously enough. Bleh, going to think over things before I vote (might just vote Shin just to see what exactly his role does).

##Unvote

[Refa]

Took a look at Paperblade's reactions in both of the games he mentioned (Big NOC's and British, because I have no idea what Awakening is and Fakeclaim was forever ago also biased perspective stoopid Elieson). His reads in British Mafia are lazier and less developed in general. He also didn't actually react at all to people casing him, at least from what I could tell. He spends a lot much more time analyzing posts in Big NOCers (even more than here, but his play here is closer to Big NOCers than it is to British) and his reaction to SB is pretty much exactly the same, hilariously enough. Bleh, going to think over things before I vote (might just vote Shin just to see what exactly his role does).

##Unvote

My wording was confusing here, so I fixed it.

[Da Bear]

So apparently I'm going to my brothers' basketball game today so I won't be around to post (I'm all caught up and stuff but don't have time to post rn, might be able to tonight).

[Paperblade]

But in my heart, I knew what he was saying

He was saying when you're down and out

And everybody thinks you're finished

That's the time to stand up on your two feet and shout

"Who do you have to fuck to get a break in this stinking town?"

[Dormio]

Since I'm voting him and all, I suppose I should address the #effort post. Which I don't like.

It's like all, okay, you think everyone but BBM is townie-ish then?

Also amused by the statement in #682 that he's clearing a lot of people based on role speculation.

Like, I'm pretty sure that there's ways to describe how terrible that is but I'm too lazy to find the right words.

And I really don't like the case on BBM by Paperblade either. Like he's guessing at scum lynch priorities based on D1 actions.

I dunno, it feels like Paperblade is really grasping for a case to me.

Further emphasized by his SB vote.

You stated in your #effort post that you don't think that SB and BBM could be scum together, does this mean that your read on BBM or opinion of BBM and SB not being scum together has changed?

[Paperblade]

I am going back and forth on which one if scum if any, need to see more content from them, going to read their ISOs after this

And I think you misunderstand what I mean by role shenanigans. I am saying "I don't think X would use his role like this as mafia because Y," this is purely related to the actions of the player and isn't something like "He claimed cop he must be town!!!" Do you dislike it because you think it's scummy or do you dislike it because you don't like the playstyle?

[Dormio]

I dislike it because I think it's a weak excuse to look like you're forming opinions on players.

So scummy.

[charlie_]

Sigh.

##Unvote

I read Awakening.