Video FE8 HM Low Turn Run vFinal

[General Horace]

i've had a few of these runs already, but i've finally finished planning and nearly done recording my final Low Turn run of Sacred Stones (I don't think there's any room for improvement), I'll like a youtube playlist below which will hopefully be completed by Saturday. For the lazy people, i'll list all my turncounts below:

Prologue - 1/1 turn

Chapter 1 - 3/4 turns

Chapter 2 - 4/8 turns

Chapter 3 - 4/12 turns

Chapter 4 - 2/14 turns

Chapter 5 - 3/17 turns

Chapter 5x - 6/23 turns

Chapter 6 - 2/25 turns

Chapter 7 - 3/28 turns

Chapter 8 - 5/33 turns

Chapter 9 - 3/36 turns

Chapter 10 - 2/38 turns

Chapter 11 - 3/41 turns

Chapter 12 - 5/46 turns

Chapter 13 - 1/47 turns

Chapter 14 - 6/53 turns

Chapter 15 - 3/56 turns

Chapter 16 - 1/57 turns

Chapter 17 - 1/58 turns

Chapter 18 - 4/62 turns

Chapter 19 - 1/63 turns

Chapter 20 - 1/64 turns

Final 2/66 turns

Hopefully I'll get Chapter 18 onwards up by Saturday, but i'm pretty busy, and in my previous recording, Saleh needed to kill one more enemy, because otherwise he'll fall 4 exp short of reaching 26 magic, which is required.

all the rage.

Here's the youtube playlist for the first 19 chapters:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHhXqU1iGb015--2TtQ_N-DLsF9J6bqhA

Edited January 16, 2015 by Integrity

[Refa]

Really impressive stuff. I've watched everything that's already up (Forde is so bad lol), it's been pretty entertaining so far. Most interested in seeing the revised Chapter 18 strategy, since that's the hardest of the remaining chapters to LTC.

[General Horace]

I honestly could have promoted Kyle instead, he would have probably reached level 11 like Forde did anyway. It didn't make a difference in the long run however.

I'm still trying to figure out some of the AI in Chapter 18. For instance, the boss gorgon will only try to stone Ephraim if he has more HP than Vanessa, and if Saleh is on a certain space. It's weird shit man.

I've definately figured out how to get Saleh enough staff exp and regular exp though, so i'm pretty happy with that.

Edited November 29, 2014 by General Horace

[Vennobennu]

The reason for the Gorgon's behavior may be caused by the AI's preference to attack units that are alone and near other enemies - the more units are nearby, the lower priority that target has; and the more enemy units that are near the target, the more likely that target is to be attacked. The Stone AI specifically might go for units with the most HP remaining too.

Hope that helps.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Vennobennu

[General Horace]

I suppose gorgon eggs count as enemies, that would make sense. Still, Ephraim is the closest unit to two Spiders and an egg, while Vanessa is just close to three eggs. Maybe the game is acting on the hunch that the gorgon's will hatch that turn and be able to attack Vanessa or something.

There's also a gargolye near the starting position that only decides to attack sometimes, which is also very odd.

EDIT: Ok, for whatever reason, if I remove Excalibur from Saleh's inventory (he didn't even have it equipped) it'll target Ephraim again. I dunno man, I dunno.

Edited November 29, 2014 by General Horace

[Vennobennu]

Ah yeah, when the AI is doing the "nearby player units" calculation, it only considers your units' strongest weapons that could hit the AI at its attack position.

And indeed, one of the starting Gargoyles is set to do nothing with a 50% chance, IS moves in unknowable ways.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Vennobennu

[Mekkah]

holy level ups batman

[Gryz]

[spoiler=AI Targeting stuff]Let's see, the boss Gorgon has 0x04 for AI byte 3 so x1 multiplier will be used for all targeting factors.

[0] Bonus: Lethal damage OR attacker's expected damage
This should be +0 TP.

[1] Bonus: Defender's remaining HP
Do any of your units have less than 20 HP? TP Bonus = (20 - remaining HP)

[2] Bonus: Near allied units
This caps at +10 TP and there's a possibility it's hitting or getting near the cap.

[3] Bonus: Defender's class
Doesn't apply in FE8.

[4] Bonus: Turn count
Caps at 65535, but will probably be much lower in LTC.

[5] Bonus/Penalty: Defender can't counter OR defender's expected damage
No counter from player units = +10 TP

[6] Penalty: Range and attack power of opponents' strongest weapons
This penalty caps at -20 TP, but it takes quite a lot of attack power to hit the cap. Yes, Saleh dumping Excalibur should affect this.

[7] Penalty: Attacker's remaining HP
Only matters if the Gorgon has less than 20 HP.

If the final TP is negative, then use the results from step[0] which I assume would be 0 since Stone has no attack power. If multiple characters are tied, then deployment order is the deciding factor (target character furthest down).

[Carmine Sword]

Those level-ups are insane.

Also, Kyle is better than Forde at killing enemies, which I find hilarious.

Will Moulder ever make it to promotion? Not that it matters at this point, I'm just curious.

[Sweet_Basil]

I expected this to be another Seth solo run but Vanessa just pushed him out of the way and did the heavy lifting. I really enjoyed watching it, I can't wait to see the rest. I'm very impressed.

[General Horace]

holy level ups batman

unfourtunately, some stuff needs to happen (I think Vanessa needs strength every level but one before chapter 10, Saleh and Artur need magic literally every level up, Moulder can only miss it once) but such is life

[spoiler=AI Targeting stuff]Let's see, the boss Gorgon has 0x04 for AI byte 3 so x1 multiplier will be used for all targeting factors.

[0] Bonus: Lethal damage OR attacker's expected damage

This should be +0 TP.

[1] Bonus: Defender's remaining HP

Do any of your units have less than 20 HP? TP Bonus = (20 - remaining HP)

[2] Bonus: Near allied units

This caps at +10 TP and there's a possibility it's hitting or getting near the cap.

[3] Bonus: Defender's class

Doesn't apply in FE8.

[4] Bonus: Turn count

Caps at 65535, but will probably be much lower in LTC.

[5] Bonus/Penalty: Defender can't counter OR defender's expected damage

No counter from player units = +10 TP

[6] Penalty: Range and attack power of opponents' strongest weapons

This penalty caps at -20 TP, but it takes quite a lot of attack power to hit the cap. Yes, Saleh dumping Excalibur should affect this.

[7] Penalty: Attacker's remaining HP

Only matters if the Gorgon has less than 20 HP.

If the final TP is negative, then use the results from step[0] which I assume would be 0 since Stone has no attack power. If multiple characters are tied, then deployment order is the deciding factor (target character furthest down).

Yeah, once I put Excalibur elsewhere and traded it up to Saleh, the Gorgon targetted Ephraim again, so things were right in the world again.

Those level-ups are insane.

Also, Kyle is better than Forde at killing enemies, which I find hilarious.

Will Moulder ever make it to promotion? Not that it matters at this point, I'm just curious.

Moulder might reach level 10? He's not needed to promote, but he does need to use hammerne in chapter 19 and rescue in chapter 20, which might push him over level 10 (i forget what level he is right now)

I expected this to be another Seth solo run but Vanessa just pushed him out of the way and did the heavy lifting. I really enjoyed watching it, I can't wait to see the rest. I'm very impressed.

Seth is still really really important, it's just other units (like Vanessa and the magic users) really need to experience to help with the rout chapters and warping duties. Thanks!

[Lord Raven]

I don't think there was any RNG abuse in this playthrough. Horace does seem very indecisive, has he considered seeing a psychiatrist or a school counselor?

[momogeek2141]

My goodness those levels had a ton of rigging! Well except Ephraims.

Seriously, just for kicks I just compared lv 10 artur to his averages: +3 hp, +4mag, -1skl (but who cares about that stat light magic is accurate anyways), +3 spd, -1lck, +1def, -1res. That's incredible.

Similarly, I was like WTF at Vanessa's def at lv 10. +1hp, +5str, +2skl, +3spd, -1lck, +7def, ±0 Res.

Damn.

[General Horace]

Vanessa did get a dracoshield so technically its only +5

But yeah Vanessa definately needed to be that good, and Artur needed 16 speed to kill the chapter 11 boss.

I think i've finally figured out chapter 18, so I think the rest of the run will be up tonight! Stay tuned.

Obviously this type of run is impossible with average stats.

Edited November 30, 2014 by General Horace

[momogeek2141]

I did an LTC without any rigging, and that was my first (and only), I got 138 turns. I'm not so sure that's the best time. I think it's my refusal to use Vanessa. I do agree on your point of average stats, my Kyle was horribly slow. In the end I just soloed the final chapter with Ephraim, Tana, Saleh for warp and Tethys. I should do another and, like, not do so badly.

Edited November 30, 2014 by momogeek2141

[General Horace]

My last run of the game (with pretty minimal rigging) was, I think 84 turns? I hardly used Artur at all (Saleh did all my warping, and took energy rings instead of rigging magic) and Seth did most of the heavy lifting, and Tana was used instead of Vanessa (since I didn't get the chapter 8 whip). Seth does need above average strength to ORKO Tirado though.

Edited November 30, 2014 by General Horace

[momogeek2141]

I guess we played similarly, minus the awful turn counts. I should try using Artur instead of Lute, it took forever to get Saleh to A in staves. And I also missed the ch8 whip. And my friend and I thought ch 15 will kill me, due to desert + mounted units, but then everything suicided into Tana. It was awesome. What was your strat against Carlyle though, cause he added a ton of turns.

[General Horace]

I went for the secret shop in my old run, so I had a few turns to engage him (he can be fought starting on turn 6 if you move Tethys ahead far enough). Seth 'can' probably OHKO him with a KE crit (like what I did on this run) but if you have a few turns (since saleh needs the secret shop to reach warp more than likely) he can probably just duke it out with silver. He's a dodgy boss so there's really no reliable way to take him down.

[momogeek2141]

Another question: if I was high enough to take Ephraims route, would Cormag be a good character to use?

[Refa]

Yes.

[General Horace]

Cormag would basically become a second Vanessa.

Actually if you went Ephraim's route its possible that you could skip the chapter 8 Elysian whip and just use Cormag's whip to promote her/Cormag himself.

I haven't actually looked into Ephraim's route at all though, its still probably a good idea to get the whip because chapter 9 is the worst chapter in the game and another 8 move unit would be pretty handy for Phantom Ship and Selena's chapter.

Chapter 18 is uploading now, after I finish the annotations i'll post it.

Edited November 30, 2014 by General Horace

[Carmine Sword]

No one ever does Ephraim Route LTC. Probably because of later Dancer and not being able to use Saleh for Warping.

I'm also pretty sure Chapter 16 on Ephraim Route can't be 1-turned like it can on Eirika Route due to the different starting positions. Actually, I'm fairly confident that Ephraim Route takes more turns than Eirika Route overall.

[momogeek2141]

Yeah, those 1 turns were pretty impressive. I personally don't get why Ephraim route starts out farther back on ch 16.

[General Horace]

I guess they were just trying to make it more difficult? The throne room enemies are tougher too IIRC.

Here's chapter 18: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt0K7JVYXAk

Ephraim route definately takes longer, almost just because of Chapter 9, along with the things you mentioned.

EDIT: Here's endgame and the turncount roll https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ-4Ev0Tmeg&feature=youtu.be

I made a small error with Vanessa's HP meaning she couldn't tank a hit from Morva or Lyon, meaning that both bosskills weren't reliable at all, but restarting from probably chapter 9 or something would be too much of a pain.

Anyway that's that! I don't think I really have plans for any more LTC runs in the future, none of the other games in the series really appeal to me LTC wise.

Edited November 30, 2014 by General Horace

[momogeek2141]

I believe stone makes you unable to dodge, and also increases the crit rate by 30%.