West vs East themes

[Jedi]

I'm kinda digging the whole Roman Empire vs Japanese culture clash (I mean we have katanas and Naginatas for crying out loud) the 2 main armies seem to have in this game, I dno why, but it just seems like a really cool take on things.

If we get to chose which side to be on, it would be awesome. It'd also be interesting if there are 3 sides and the main character has to interact with all 3. Then again I like Three Kingdoms stuff way too much.

[Etria]

It is! It's really refreshing after several games that are more western-orientated. And it looks really great in the trailer. Hopefully that means that they also use this opportunity to design smarter armour.

[Jedi]

It is! It's really refreshing after several games that are more western-orientated. And it looks really great in the trailer. Hopefully that means that they also use this opportunity to design smarter armour.

I'm sure we'll still see some Awakening like designs I mean not all their armor designs were off. Like the great knights helms were a type of helm called a Stechhelm (Lit. Frog-Mouth Helm)

[dragonlordsd]

I think it's an interesting idea, but I have this vague apprehension that the game is going to be rather insulting to us westerners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be the evil ones in the story, as usual.

And yes, I would much prefer it if there were 3 sides instead of just two. Like a European side and an Arabic side or a English side and a Roman Side. Would add a lot.

Although I'm not digging the Katanas and Naginatas, we've had those forever, I'm bored of them. Let's see some intersting weapons like claymores, scimitars, flails, etc. Or poleaxes. Ooh, or hammers.

[Jedi]

I think it's an interesting idea, but I have this vague apprehension that the game is going to be rather insulting to us westerners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be the evil ones in the story, as usual.

And yes, I would much prefer it if there were 3 sides instead of just two. Like a European side and an Arabic side or a English side and a Roman Side. Would add a lot.

Although I'm not digging the Katanas and Naginatas, we've had those forever, I'm bored of them. Let's see some intersting weapons like claymores, scimitars, flails, etc. Or poleaxes. Ooh, or hammers.

We haven't ever had a naginata in an FE and the closest we've had to Katanas are like the Mani Katti and Wo Dao.

We've had plenty of Poleaxes and Hammers so I don't know where you've been, Claymores and Scimitars would be cool, dno what flails would fall under though unless you started adding in things like whips and scourges and had flails fall under that.

[dragonlordsd]

Sry, should have been clearer:

There weren't any poleaxes or hammers in awakening, which I would have liked to see, just because I think that given awakening's art style, they would have been really interesting.

Katanas are in every game, the Killing Edge is a katana, it's always a katana. I remember Naginatas from awakening, but I could be wrong, I was playing total war: shogun 2 recently, I might be getting the mixed up.

Flails could be a subset of spears, like a spear that's effective against armor, although from a gameplay standpoint, unless they rebalance armored units (generals, great knights) there's not much point, they're weak enough now as it is. Man, I remember the good old days when generals were pretty much invincible and you had to use either a rapier or magic, or else they were unbeatable.

But my point is that awakening had lots of Eastern stuff, like swordmasters and so on, I would like to see some more intricate western stuff, especially from non-british sources.

For claymore, they could bring back the "blade" weapons from the GBA games, that would be interesting. Dunno if they'd actually be of any use gameplay wise.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[Jedi]

Sry, should have been clearer:

There weren't any poleaxes or hammers in awakening, which I would have liked to see, just because I think that given awakening's art style, they would have been really interesting.

Katanas are in every game, the Killing Edge is a katana, it's always a katana. I remember Naginatas from awakening, but I could be wrong, I was playing total war: shogun 2 recently, I might be getting the mixed up.

Flails could be a subset of spears, like a spear that's effective against armor, although from a gameplay standpoint, unless they rebalance armored units (generals, great knights) there's not much point, they're weak enough now as it is. Man, I remember the good old days when generals were pretty much invincible and you had to use either a rapier or magic, or else they were unbeatable.

But my point is that awakening had lots of Eastern stuff, like swordmasters and so on, I would like to see some more intricate western stuff, especially from non-british sources.

The Killing Edge has only been a Katana since Awakening actually.

Fire Emblem has actually been quite European inspired before Awakening, and it still showed in Awakening. Flails I dno if we need another subset, we need bows to be good again like FE6 and 12 first.

Great Knights were pretty legit in Awakening but you're right about Generals although they've always been bad unless they were enemy units.

For claymore, they could bring back the "blade" weapons from the GBA games, that would be interesting. Dunno if they'd actually be of any use gameplay wise.

Blades were also in Tellius and they worked but if you were to add Blades again we'd need weapon weight back so they didn't obsolete the normal weapons and I'm fairly sure most people hated the weight system so.. Yeah.

Also not that i'm a mod or anything but you should edit your posts instead of doubling up. It'd be a shame if you got in trouble for that.

[Kirokan]

Variety is always nice, such as the Shamshir in FE8. I have a feeling rather than the western being "bad" per se, they may just give you the ups and downs of both sides. If it really is about choices and siding, I'm sure they wouldn't portray either side as fully good or fully bad.

This is all speculation from just one trailer, though.

[IGdood]

Other than the Mouth of Truth, I don't see any Roman influence in the other faction. They're quite European fantasy. Roman would be coolus helmets, giant rectangular shields, lorica segmentata/hamata, etc.

[Yuki]

I love the more eastern weapons alongside the western ones. I'm an avid blade/sword collector myself and most are European or Eastern.

[secondworld]

Yeah I also like this supposed theme, I just hope one side isn't just "the bad guys".

[Etria]

I'm sure we'll still see some Awakening like designs I mean not all their armor designs were off. Like the great knights helms were a type of helm called a Stechhelm (Lit. Frog-Mouth Helm)

Sure, I just want them to throw out the bad one. I mean, Valkyries and Pegasus Knights look good overall (not completely).

And yes, I would much prefer it if there were 3 sides instead of just two. Like a European side and an Arabic side or a English side and a Roman Side. Would add a lot.

Then they would do just the same as all those war shooters do to the Middle East or Russia. I think the West/Europe/Everything belonging to that can stand being targeted as well.

Edit: That doesn't mean that the "western side" should be one-dimensional villains. I'd be very happy if they had depth and nuance.

Edited January 15, 2015 by General Asthar

[Aiddon]

I think it's an interesting idea, but I have this vague apprehension that the game is going to be rather insulting to us westerners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be the evil ones in the story, as usual.

Well, to be honest, we REALLY deserve it. Especially from the East who we treated like crap every chance we could get. Seriously, the opium trade in China was backed unashamedly by Western entities leading to The First and Second Opium Wars. And of course the US' solution to get Japan to open up trade was to march into Edo and threaten to go haywire if they didn't do what we demanded. Even to this day the West has a problem with chest-puffing on the international stage.

Anyway, I don't remember if I've mentioned this here, but I have in other place, one thing that stuck out to me about the painting we saw in the trailer was that the soldiers in it were clearly based on Portuguese military units. Portugal was one of Japan's earliest Western trading partners. Heck, the Japanese word for bread is a loan word from Portuguese (pan), tempura was derived from Portuguese methods, and a favored confectionery in Japan is castella, also derived form Portuguese cooking. Probably not a coincidence.

There are some interesting ways to go with this. We could go all historical parallel, maybe having people based on Sengoku-era warlords or Western imperialists. There could be commentary on East-West relations, xenophobia, racism, jingoism, all sorts of things. Heck, ya might even be able to get into Japanese Christians (one of the most famous being Hosokawa Gracia, the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide). Fascinating ways this could go, especially against the backdrop of the series' fantasy setting.

[Etria]

There are some interesting ways to go with this. We could go all historical parallel, maybe having people based on Sengoku-era warlords or Western imperialists. There could be commentary on East-West relations, xenophobia, racism, jingoism, all sorts of things. Heck, ya might even be able to get into Japanese Christians (one of the most famous being Hosokawa Gracia, the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide). Fascinating ways this could go, especially against the backdrop of the series' fantasy setting.

Uh~ That sounds awesome, really. The invading country does so with the reason to forcibly open up the other country for trade and to sneakily take over their resources, but since FE seemingly always needs a supernatural threat, there could be a mage in the invading country's lines who uses the invasion for his gain. Unf, want.

[dragonlordsd]

See, this is the other thing that I'm concerned about: that the "East" side is just going to be Japan. What about China or Nepal?

You can't just throw China and Japan together as "the east," because Japan did a LOT of bad things to China during WWII.

And not everybody treated the East like crap. Sure England, Portugal, and other European Nations did. But Germany really helped out the eastern nations a lot, which is why Japan sided with them during WWII.

This is the kind of stuff I'd like to see make it into the game: complicated stuff.

I think that's the kind of stuff that has always made the series good. Even in shadow dragon, the situation wasn't simple. Akenia (misspelled, I know) wasn't just "the good guys," they also did bad things to Macedon and stuff.

Awakening tried to do something like that with talk of the "purges" and stuff, but it never really got fleshed out, which was a pain. Gangrel ended up just being a one dimensional crazy person.

Edited January 15, 2015 by dragonlordsd

[Garnef]

In other words, this game's factions are:

Weeaboos and Westaboos

Definitely an interesting idea, and I like the idea of 2 different countries having different cultures. It adds a lot more depth to the game.

Also, lmao, Jedi shares the same avatar as my Skype.

[Jedi]

Other than the Mouth of Truth, I don't see any Roman influence in the other faction. They're quite European fantasy. Roman would be coolus helmets, giant rectangular shields, lorica segmentata/hamata, etc.

True, I guess I overstated what I ment, the Pope looking figure is also there though in that split second.

Sure, I just want them to throw out the bad one. I mean, Valkyries and Pegasus Knights look good overall (not completely).

*nods* I sometimes feel I'm the only one who overall liked Awakenings designs (not dark mages though except Miriel looked funny as one)

In other words, this game's factions are:

Weeaboos and Westaboos

Definitely an interesting idea, and I like the idea of 2 different countries having different cultures. It adds a lot more depth to the game.

Also, lmao, Jedi shares the same avatar as my Skype.

BATTLE OF THE WEEBAWESTA

Hahaha I just figured I'd make Hinoka my avatar for now although I'm digging the Myrm girls design.

Yeah I also like this supposed theme, I just hope one side isn't just "the bad guys".

I think we'll actually avoid that this time.

[ClassyWolf]

I'm kinda digging the whole Roman Empire vs Japanese culture clash (I mean we have katanas and Naginatas for crying out loud) the 2 main armies seem to have in this game, I dno why, but it just seems like a really cool take on things.

If we get to chose which side to be on, it would be awesome. It'd also be interesting if there are 3 sides and the main character has to interact with all 3. Then again I like Three Kingdoms stuff way too much.

I actually talked about that, a bit more in design, here was what:

Is that the design they decided to go with for the west? honestly, when I saw that picture, I thought "what do people mean with west versus east, they are both wearing armor closer to Japanese style".

Is it really that hard to make armor that resembles more the armor actually used in the west, Europe, And the sword... I honestly wonder who made the design for that sword, because it looks incredibly impractical.

Honestly, the layered armor Max (or whatever people are calling him right now) looks far more inspired by Japanese style than west. But that's just my two cents on it.

Sorry if I sound like a ass, but if it's suppose to be west vs. east, it would be nice if they resembled the things they are supposed to represent (or inspired them). But that's my opinion on it.

There is very little I can say that look like typical European armor, hardened and tempered armor, like in the high medieval ages, or brigandine, or a mail shirt. I see the eastern influences with the lamellar like armor.

Edit: yeah, the armor they use may look a bit like a lorica segmentata, though only very loosely, I really couldn't tell if they tried to imitate that (and it's difficult to say since he is Marx, Max, is wearing a tabard).

I'm sure we'll still see some Awakening like designs I mean not all their armor designs were off. Like the great knights helms were a type of helm called a Stechhelm (Lit. Frog-Mouth Helm)

Oh god, yes those things, although they seem like they would be poor battlefield helmets, and if I'm not entirely wrong, they where predominantly used for jousting.

Well, to be honest, we REALLY deserve it. Especially from the East who we treated like crap every chance we could get. Seriously, the opium trade in China was backed unashamedly by Western entities leading to The First and Second Opium Wars. And of course the US' solution to get Japan to open up trade was to march into Edo and threaten to go haywire if they didn't do what we demanded. Even to this day the West has a problem with chest-puffing on the international stage.

Anyway, I don't remember if I've mentioned this here, but I have in other place, one thing that stuck out to me about the painting we saw in the trailer was that the soldiers in it were clearly based on Portuguese military units. Portugal was one of Japan's earliest Western trading partners. Heck, the Japanese word for bread is a loan word from Portuguese (pan), tempura was derived from Portuguese methods, and a favored confectionery in Japan is castella, also derived form Portuguese cooking. Probably not a coincidence.

There are some interesting ways to go with this. We could go all historical parallel, maybe having people based on Sengoku-era warlords or Western imperialists. There could be commentary on East-West relations, xenophobia, racism, jingoism, all sorts of things. Heck, ya might even be able to get into Japanese Christians (one of the most famous being Hosokawa Gracia, the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide). Fascinating ways this could go, especially against the backdrop of the series' fantasy setting.

Oh yes, how horribly we Finns treated the Asians during time while we where a Russian province, while there where European countries that where imperialistic, like Great Britain, Portugal, Spain, France, the Netherlander, This was not the majority of Europe, heck, even though most of Europe had slavery, it was often people from their own counties (and I'm not speaking of the Empires of that time).

Saying that everyone deserves it because of the actions of the few, is quite the generalization.

Edited January 15, 2015 by that one person

[Jedi]

I actually talked about that, a bit more in design, here was what:

Is that the design they decided to go with for the west? honestly, when I saw that picture, I thought "what do people mean with west versus east, they are both wearing armor closer to Japanese style".

Is it really that hard to make armor that resembles more the armor actually used in the west, Europe, And the sword... I honestly wonder who made the design for that sword, because it looks incredibly impractical.

Honestly, the layered armor Max (or whatever people are calling him right now) looks far more inspired by Japanese style than west. But that's just my two cents on it.

Sorry if I sound like a ass, but if it's suppose to be west vs. east, it would be nice if they resembled the things they are supposed to represent (or inspired them). But that's my opinion on it.

There is very little I can say that look like typical European armor, hardened and tempered armor, like in the high medieval ages, or brigandine, or a mail shirt. I see the eastern influences with the lamellar like armor.

Oh god, yes those things, although they seem like they would be poor battlefield helmets, and if I'm not entirely wrong, they where predominantly used for jousting.

I feel FE likes to make European stuff look over the top, IS does have alot of love for it though considering all the references to not only Arthurian lore but that of Charlemagne, the Song of Roland and such.

And the Stechhelm was used by German mounted soldiers, but you are right. It was also very popular for jousting as it served the purpose of not letting splinters of the lances enter your eyes as easily as other helms

[Shadow Knight]

I like this. It opens the way for more cultural differences in the game like different types of weapons and armor which the series has needed for a while.\

For example different types of swords like the Gladius and spears like the pilum. Perhaps they could add in shields or even expand the weapons triangle to include weapons like flails and maces.

If the west is the bad guys than so be it. But I'd like more than three factions this time around. Maybe one western esque faction is "Bad" but another is "Good."

[dragonlordsd]

Fe's style has gone through 4 major periods:

The original, 90s era, which is way over the top (those shoulder plates... my god)

The Seisen no Keifu era, in which you got a rather unusual England-in-the-1800s-but-we're-still-using-knights look.

The GBA era, in which you got a more mixed east-west style (the generals are essentially wearing samurai armor, which is a little weird) (this is also when you stop seeing shields on cavaliers. Previously, they all had shields)

And finally the awakening era, in which everything is super stylized.

[ClassyWolf]

I feel FE likes to make European stuff look over the top, IS does have alot of love for it though considering all the references to not only Arthurian lore but that of Charlemagne, the Song of Roland and such.

Yeah, I've actually almost always got that feel from most fe games, really usually get the best pictures from the knights, how their armor is, and I kinda get most designs using certain pieces of armor but not all (half plate), it's just that if this is supposed to be west vs. east, I've yet to get the vibe that it's from the west from the side that I've understood is the west.

And the Stechhelm was used by German mounted soldiers, but you are right. It was also very popular for jousting as it served the purpose of not letting splinters of the lances enter your eyes as easily as other helms

This comes for personal preference, but helms like the stechhelm, I'm not that big a fan, it's just, I can't imagine wearing one o the battlefield thinking how much it hinders vision, personally I'm more fond of the Bascinet, or the closed helm, provides good protection when riding in, and when coming to fight in close quarter, you can lift up the visor and then it's easier to keep an eye on your opponent and what happens around you, also more fond of the shape, since it takes away more of the impact of a blow to the head.

Probably not to important when talking about an fe game, but that's again my personal preference on helmets, also kinda wish we would see someone in a buff coat, no not something that shows your abs, but a thick leather coat that offers modest protection.

[Jedi]

Yeah, I've actually almost always got that feel from most fe games, really usually get the best pictures from the knights, how their armor is, and I kinda get most designs using certain pieces of armor but not all (half plate), it's just that if this is supposed to be west vs. east, I've yet to get the vibe that it's from the west from the side that I've understood is the west.

This comes for personal preference, but helms like the stechhelm, I'm not that big a fan, it's just, I can't imagine wearing one o the battlefield thinking how much it hinders vision, personally I'm more fond of the Bascinet, or the closed helm, provides good protection when riding in, and when coming to fight in close quarter, you can lift up the visor and then it's easier to keep an eye on your opponent and what happens around you, also more fond of the shape, since it takes away more of the impact of a blow to the head.

Probably not to important when talking about an fe game, but that's again my personal preference on helmets, also kinda wish we would see someone in a buff coat, no not something that shows your abs, but a thick leather coat that offers modest protection.

That makes some amount of sense, maybe it'll become clearer when we see more footage/pictures. I guess I'm one of the few who got a semi roman feel from part of the army

Hey we all have preferences, I personally don't like the stechhelm too much, but I defend it in terms of Awakening because people tend to say its not a realistic helmet when it actually was if that makes sense.

Buff coat eh? That would be pretty neat

[Aiddon]

Oh yes, how horribly we Finns treated the Asians during time while we where a Russian province, while there where European countries that where imperialistic, like Great Britain, Portugal, Spain, France, the Netherlander, This was not the majority of Europe, heck, even though most of Europe had slavery, it was often people from their own counties (and I'm not speaking of the Empires of that time).

Saying that everyone deserves it because of the actions of the few, is quite the generalization.

Thing is, the Imperialists were the major players thus they led to the biggest representation of Europe or the West on the world stage. In which case you should probably be in even MADDER at those countries' histories because you unfortunately get lumped in with them regardless. Yes, I know it's the actions of a few; Commodore Perry was only one guy, but he still represented an entire nation to another nation thus giving everyone a bad impression of the US. That's just the facts of reality. So, thanks a lot, Perry and the REST of 19th century Imperialist Europe for making my country (and hemisphere) look like a bunch of greedy, bullying sociopaths.

Uh~ That sounds awesome, really. The invading country does so with the reason to forcibly open up the other country for trade and to sneakily take over their resources, but since FE seemingly always needs a supernatural threat, there could be a mage in the invading country's lines who uses the invasion for his gain. Unf, want.

Yeah, exactly, that's a good way to do things. The CAPCOM series' Onimusha did something very similar; the villains were all demons who were using the chaos and political upheaval of the Sengoku era to try and manipulate the various sides to gain a foothold in the human world. The demons also had blatantly Western names like Fortinbras, Guildenstern, Vega Donna, etc. You can use that for interesting parallels.

Another thing that came to mind is that there is a bunch of samurai fiction in Japan, but I've rarely see it done as a backdrop for a fantasy setting even in Japanese games. There are a couple, like Okami, but even then it's pretty sparse. It also makes me wonder since monsters are clearly coming back, it makes me wonder if they're going to delve into Japanese demons, youkai, bakemono, etc for monsters because Japan has some BIZARRE stuff in that regard.

[IGdood]

True, I guess I overstated what I ment, the Pope looking figure is also there though in that split second.

Ah, right. Sorry I probably got a bit direct there, when people mention Romans I automatically think to super stereotypical Romans.