FE6 HM LTC V1 - Completed in 133 Turns

[Irysa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u54X36iN_4c&feature=youtu.be

13 Turns.

There are various permuations of a 12 turn possible but they all miss something critical. A 12 turn without talking to Cath and getting the Elysian Whip is doable, as is a 12 turn with Cath and without the Whip. However, you can't get both in a 12 turn short of suicidedropping Roy to the throne on turn 12. The Whip saves a turn on the next map and has more net benefits throughout, and Cath costs even more turns elsewhere in the playthrough if not talked to here, so this is basically the best that can be done.

That aside, THIS MAP IS LONG. Somehow I managed to not let Marcus or Zealot take a single kill on the entire map, everything went to a growth unit. The initial layout with Shanna on Turn 1 is kinda messy but I did it at a time when I was paranoid I wouldn't be able to get enough WEXP into her to reach B Lances before promotion (I need Silvers on promotion for a quick 8x clear), and after subsequently realising I could make up the shortfall easily, I couldn't be bothered to go back and fix it. Her cumulative chance of death is not that high (45 and 61 disp hit 2HKO) but rigging the misses for kill feeding is a bit more awkward. Shanna bodyblocks Marcus so even if the Horseslayer Knight hit him then he wouldn't be able to be killed. I use Clarine (60 disp hit OHKO'd) to lure an Archer so I can feed the chip to Roy and kill to Sue, otherwise he'd attack Shanna. Roy has to gamble a bit vs that Killer Lance Knight, who could be killed by Zealot@Hammer but I figured if I was going to feed every other kill on the map to growth units I may as well go for broke. Aside from that though, there's no chances of death anywhere.

Also there are some notification sounds in this because I'm an idiot and forgot they were on. Ignore them.

[spoiler=EP Stats (only listing stuff that has a chance of death)]
Turn 1
Shanna 26 Hp
45 Hit 22 Dmg
61 Hit 13 Dmg

Turn 4
Clarine 15 Hp
60 Hit 17 Dmg

Turn 6
Shanna 23 Hp
41 Hit 2 Dmg
44 Hit 21 Dmg

Turn 9
Roy 23 Hp
57 Hit 9 Dmg 19 Crit

[spoiler=Large RN Burns]

Large RN Burns
Turn 1
Noah Arrow U6L1 Cycle (LDURx237)
Noah Arrow U6L1 Cycle (LDURx215)
Noah Arrow U6L1 Cycle (LDURx63)

Turn 2
Noah Arrow D5L2 Cycle (DRLUx20)

Turn 4
Noah Arrow R2D5 Cycle (RUDLx140)

Turn 5
Lance Arrow L4U3 Cycle (URLDx118)
Lance Arrow L4U3 Cycle (URLDx42)

Turn 6
Sue Arrow D2L5 Cycle (DRLUx263)

Turn 7
Clarine Arrow L6D2 Cycle (DRLUx32)

Turn 9
Zealot Arrow R5U3 Cycle (ULRDx311)
Zealot Arrow R5U3 Cycle (ULRDx127)

Turn 11
Noah Arrow R5U2 Cycle (ULRDx362)

Turn 12
Treck Arrow L3U4 Cycle (LDURx105)

Edited April 12, 2015 by Irysa

[Espinosa]

lol @ Thany being so sturdy that the mooks would rather attack Marcus and Zealot instead.

Using that monstrous Allen should be fun. I guess you don't mind "wasting" that Barrier staff because everyone is gaining res anyway?

[dondon151]

irysa can RNG abuse for status staff misses and he can also use the status staff AI manipulation tricks when applicable.

[Espinosa]

True, and the higher the stats you have the less you have to turn to the RNG for help (or in less extreme ways).

[Lord Raven]

There's not that many spots where you have to dodge a bunch of status staves at any rate. I remember the RNs in 16x, for instance, are right there (and you may only need to burn like two or three RNs) to dodge a bunch of shit near the throne.

[X-Naut]

Somehow I managed to not let Marcus or Zealot take a single kill on the entire map, everything went to a growth unit.

Casuals would be so proud.

Nice job grabbing everything but the Silver Axe and the Killer armor's keys on the way.

[Irysa]

I missed a Door Key on a Soldier too and some Vulneraries. :p

Also I've been doing some theory with Lord Raven and although my initial plans indicated that Lilina saved turns in Ilia via bolting crits, it turns out that Lilina does not actually save any turns in Sacae. This is because we have to skip the Bolting Tome in 16 to get the Rescue Staff, and then don't drop turns in any Sacae map regardless since the layouts are such that Roy + Bosskiller (typically Shanna or Alan) and various combinations of Warp allow for nearly universal 2 turns. Lilina doesn't even save Warp uses, she only saves a Rescue staff use in Chapter 23 from what I've theoried (which is superfluous since we only need 2 Rescues anyway). She can save a turn in 21 but it requires getting the Chapter 16 Bolting, and losing Rescue costs more turns than her Bolting saves. Even if I don't get the Bolting in 16 and instead warp someone to the secret shop and somehow have that Bolting get to Lilina in a 3 turn of 21, that's an extra warp use, and each warp use is saving at least 1 turn elsewhere anyway, so it's ultimately moot.

Much of this theorying has been possible thanks to Raven's run (which is actually much farther ahead than mine right now, although less optimised), but basically, the Lilina ExperimentTM seems to have failed. I have absoloutely no idea who should even be taking priority on EXP though if not her, since the run as far as I can see only actually needs to heavily train, Roy, Alan, Shanna, Sue and Saul, with Shin mostly there to get enough EXP to go to Sacae. An extra Paladin is nearly entirely worthless (Marcus Zealot and Percival suffice as filler), as is any infantry unit. orz

I'm beginning to think that Rescue Staff Clarine may be the next best investment if I can somehow get her to level 10 and C Staves. Combat EXP isn't happening for her for ages though, and there's just so much EXP in Chapter 9, 10, and 11 that's almost entirely wasted if this doesn't go to Lilina.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Irysa

[momogeek2141]

Are you going to be using Shin as well as Sue to increase your odds of going to Sacae? Because I hear that Sacae can be cleared faster.

Also, Shanna for Top tier, she completely blows Miledy out of the water at the moment!

So I presume that since Lilina is useless, you will maybe redo chapter 8 to get that archer harassing Wade/Lot/whatever to Sue? And you may be able to clear faster because Roy won't have to talk to Lilina?

Edited April 2, 2015 by momogeek2141

[Irysa]

Are you going to be using Shin as well as Sue to increase your odds of going to Sacae? Because I hear that Sacae can be cleared faster.

I outlined that in my post.

"with Shin mostly there to get enough EXP to go to Sacae"

Sue gets priority for use over Shin since Shin will never be able to reach S Bows in this playthrough wheras Sue should manage easily due to earlier join time.

So I presume that since Lilina is useless, you will maybe redo chapter 8 to get that archer harassing Wade/Lot/whatever to Sue?

I can't honestly be bothered to do that right now, but that is a possibility. I will consider it.

And you may be able to clear faster because Roy won't have to talk to Lilina?

A 12 turn of Chapter 8 is not ideal with current restrictions because Roy has to talk to Cath, not Lilina. I also need the Elysian Whip, and that's extremely far away in raw tiles from the start position. Roy can be rescue chained to the throne on turn 11 for a turn 12 seize after talking to Cath, but since the Whip is so far away I'm short a tile or so from being able to reach it on turn 12 if I use my Paladins to get Roy in seize range on turn 11. If I don't talk to Cath, I can get the Whip (insane amount of rescuedropping of my Paladin trio required) and Roy can easily reach the throne in 12 turns via somebody just carrying him there, but not talking to Cath here costs far more turns elsewhere in the playthrough. If I allowed suicides, I could just have someone kill themselves on the boss on turn 12 whilst carrying Roy for it though.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Irysa

[dondon151]

are you sure that lilina doesn't save any turns in chapters 22 or 24

[Yojinbo]

Rescue!Clarine sounds like the next best thing to invest time into. Getting her to level 10 and her staff rank to C before 16x should definitely be possible. On that note, you could also have Cecilia get to B-Rank Staff and rig her level ups so she procs magic as well in case you haven't thought of it yet. May not be entirely necessary but I can see it being helpful a few times.

Additional exp could go into training one of Alan's weapon ranks. Since Miledy will probably use Malte, you could aim for Alan to hit S-Sword or S-Axe so he can use Durandal/Armads depending on which weapon Percival is gonna use. S-Sword for Alan and S-Axe for Percival is probably easier to achieve so why not go for that?

[Gradivus.]

you don't need to warp to reach the C21 shop in 3 turns; Boots!Shanna, danced on turn 1 can reach it. I don't know how feasible the rest (transferring the bolting from merlinus to lilina etc) is though.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Irysa]

I was taking into account the fact that a warp will be needed in order to get the Bolting to Lilina (ideally warp someone onto the shop, use the shop, fly off the shop so the Bolting can be tradeswapped to Lilina)

are you sure that lilina doesn't save any turns in chapters 22 or 24

The minimum TC for 22 in this playthrough is 3 and Saul with Divine can do enough damage to finish Zephiel off after a double Killer Lance crit from a maxed str Paladin. My plan is to warp Alan+Saul on turn 1 to the central area, then have Saul Rescue staff Roy + Lalum on Turn 2, then have Roy open the door on turn 3 and have Alan and Saul kill Zephiel, then Lalum dances Roy for a 3 turn.

24 min TC with what remaining warps are left is 7, and Lilina does not need to be present for it since I should be able to replicate your 7 turn since capped str Alan@Wyrmslayer can replicate Durandal Percival.

Actually hmm, you may be right that Lilina helps in 24 vs Jahn though. His defence is ridiculous. I actually don't think any physical unit without Durandal can ORKO him or pull crit without supports, so I guess I need some kind of Magic User to seal the deal.

Capped Skill Alan with Maltet and a C support with Roy can pull crit on Jahn. Bromance > Romance confirmed.

Rescue!Clarine sounds like the next best thing to invest time into. Getting her to level 10 and her staff rank to C before 16x should definitely be possible. On that note, you could also have Cecilia get to B-Rank Staff and rig her level ups so she procs magic as well in case you haven't thought of it yet. May not be entirely necessary but I can see it being helpful a few times.

B Staves Cecilia is impossible, she joins too late.

For reference, here are the min TCs that I've calculated after Cecilia joins

14 - 3

14x - 2

15 - 4 (Garret)

16 - 4 (Hugh and Zeiss)

17 - 2

18 - 2

19 - 2

20 - 3 (Dayan)

20x - 1

21 - 3 (it will probably be 4 though)

21x - 2

22 - 3

23 - 2

24 - 7

Nowhere near enough time to build staff rank to B.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Irysa

[dondon151]

are you sure that you can't 6-turn chapter 24

[Irysa]

You can 6 turn 24, but it takes warps away from elsewhere in the playthrough that then transfer that extra turn/s over. There's a finite amount of warp to be allocated.

Also you may have missed my final update there but capped Skill Alan@Maltet with a C Roy Support (20 turns, I've already done 8 without even trying so this will be easy) can pull crit on Jahn so there's no need for Lilina to kill or weaken him. I may still actually train her just for having a Bolting/Forblaze bot around for endgame, and the fact she's very easy to train in the Isles due to enemies beelining her because of how frail she is. But at the least, if my plans to get the C14 Guiding Ring without a Warp use fail (currently theorying Lalum dodgetanking Wyverns and then dropping Sophia and dancing her for the ring) then missing it won't hurt much, seeing as Lilina won't need to be meeting very high benchmarks to contribute, just 20+ promo gains will be enough. Lilina also has to be deployed to recruit Gonzales and Garret.

Additional exp could go into training one of Alan's weapon ranks. Since Miledy will probably use Malte, you could aim for Alan to hit S-Sword or S-Axe so he can use Durandal/Armads depending on which weapon Percival is gonna use. S-Sword for Alan and S-Axe for Percival is probably easier to achieve so why not go for that?

Swords have shitty enemy phase so Alan is very unlikely to reach Durandal in time. He only has about C at 8x, and can probably reach A with a lot of effort, but S is extremely unlikely. Wyrmslayer!Alan can ORKO Manaketes anyway, so I only need Maltet for Jahn.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Irysa

[dondon151]

what i meant was, are you sure you can't 6-turn chapter 24 with 1 warp

[Irysa]

Not 100% no. I know a 15 mov instead of a 14 mov Roy can do some crazy shit like go from the second throne to the third in one turn unaided, but I don't have enemy stats for the manaketes there so I don't know if Lilina can pull crit on them without the Roy support, which is IIRC what beamcrash was able to do on NM. I'm making the assumption that like most differences between NM and HM, they have too much luck to pull disp crit on without a support with Bolting. Roy basically has to move from throne to throne every turn so having Lilina able to get the support bonus on 24 is a bit of a luxury. Lalum also has limitations on how many boots she can use which impedes going fast.

I can envision a 6 turn 1 Warp 1 Rescue though maybe. But I think I'd still need Bolting criticals without the support active. Given that hypothetically Lilina saves 1 Rescue in 23 (should only need 1 on Lalum if I don't have to get a bosskiller in range) that might just be doable...on NM. Roy would have be warped on Turn 5 after seizing the sixth throne and then ORKO Jahn on enemy phase to seize on the sixth. Or Alan would have to rescue him and get danced so he can drop him and fight Jahn on the next turn or something, but that also seems like a luxury given that to just get Roy to seize the 6th throne on turn 5 and a warper in range will likely have used up my dance for that turn.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Irysa

[Espinosa]

You can 6 turn 24, but it takes warps away from elsewhere in the playthrough that then transfer that extra turn/s over. There's a finite amount of warp to be allocated.

You could always forego using Warp in chapter 14x for example. Hardly saves any turns there, and you'd most likely appreciate the extra combat experience.

[Lord Raven]

The funny thing is, your units become so powerful that combat exp is almost trivial by 14x. Either way it's a net turn, though.

[Irysa]

You could always forego using Warp in chapter 14x for example. Hardly saves any turns there, and you'd most likely appreciate the extra combat experience.

That's the point though. Moving the warps around doesn't significantly affect the final TC, 2 turning 14x vs 6 turning 24, the end result is the same.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Irysa

[Espinosa]

True, so if you save Warp uses for later in such situations, you have an extra turn (or two) for self-improvement. Seems a good time to build up Allen's sword rank for example.

[Irysa]

It doesn't matter though. Training up Alan's sword rank won't actually save any turns, and even if it did, the turns I expended to do that training can't be cut by more than the turns used to facilitate that training. Alan doesn't need Durandal to get the hypothetical current minimum TC, and even if a 6 turn 1 warp 1 rescue of 24 is possible on HM, Durandal is irrelevant for Alan beause Roy would be killing Jahn (and he CAN use Durandal) or Alan would be critting him via Malte.

It's a zero sum game. The only way to significantly cut more turns in FE6 mid/lategame is to find places where warp saves more than 1 turn per use. Those are, as follows.

C16 - Innumerable, but close to 7 turns are saved via 2 uses of warp. Another use saves multiple turns later on via the Rescue Staff.

C16x - Innumerable. Likely 6 to 8 turns are saved by 1 use of warp.

19s - Innumerable. I estimate 5 to 7 turns are saved by 1 use of warp.

20s - Something around 2 to 3 turns are saved by 1 use of warp.

21 - About 2 or 3 turns are saved per use of warp up to 2 max uses.

21x - Innumerable. Maybe 6.

22 - Innumerable. Probably 6 turns, it's a really long way on the left.

24 is the only other possible map where 1 warp use saves more than 1 turn. Broadly speaking, I'd rather take longer on the maps with arenas (such as 17) if I'm going to take longer, since that's extra money for statboosters.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Irysa

[Yojinbo]

For reference, here are the min TCs that I've calculated after Cecilia joins

14 - 3

14x - 2

15 - 4 (Garret)

16 - 4 (Hugh and Zeiss)

17 - 2

18 - 2

19 - 2

20 - 2

20x - 1

21 - 3 (it will probably be 4 though)

21x - 2

22 - 3

23 - 2

24 - 7

Nowhere near enough time to build staff rank to B.

Are these TCs with or without Rescue!Clarine in the equation?

[Lord Raven]

One of Niime or Saul are using Rescue.

[Yojinbo]

I don't think any of these turncounts could be improved with Rescue!Clarine. Maybe 18S can be one turned if Lilina snipes the boss and Warp/turn/dance can make an instant seize possible for. I don't really see where Rescue!Clarine could save any turns elsewhere.