The Reason for the Problems With Awakening

[Kye]

Pair up boosts seem pretty balanced in Lunatic, but overkill on lower difficulties. There are a few other imbalanced things (like Veteran), but most FEs have those. The story isn't great and some characters are too gimmicky for my tastes, but it was ok overall.

I think the map design could be a bit better though, super high enemy density on an open plain does not exactly promote a wide variety of strategies.

Let's also not forget the lack of multiple/different map objectives aside from...

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I think I made my point.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Starman

[Czar_Yoshi]

While lack of varied objectives is a legitimate complaint, isn't that blowing it a little out of proportion? I'm sure there are more than 0 Kill Boss chapters in the game.

Personally, I think the EXP formula itself is fine. It's EXP multiplier skills like Veteran (and Paragon, historically) that tend to turn characters into ridiculous monsters. When one balances the game around a certain EXP rate, then suddenly throws +50% free extra EXP at 2-3 characters, well... I'm not sure what they expected, if not Robin and kids totally dominating.

I guess it depends then on your idea of what the game's supposed to be played like. Since it rewards you aesthetically for using a large team, I assume the Devs intended for that to happen, though anyone who's played Lunatic and above knows that smaller = easier in most cases. Hard with full deployment keeps the ratio of unit power between you and the enemy relatively consistent with even leveling, but it breaks down if you go outside of that- exp doesn't fall off fast enough going up to prevent even a non-Veteran (though Veteran sure makes it easier) unit from easily stepping far enough above the stat curve to obsolete a full team, and particularly on Lunatic exp doesn't increase fast enough to keep your whole team relevant if you try to feed them all- you'll get overran the moment Promotes start showing up.

What we got does work (especially in Lunatic(+)), but I don't think it works in the way it was supposed to. Of course this is entirely subjective so feel free to disagree, this is just my stance on the matter.

[Kye]

While lack of varied objectives is a legitimate complaint, isn't that blowing it a little out of proportion? I'm sure there are more than 0 Kill Boss chapters in the game.

I guess it depends then on your idea of what the game's supposed to be played like. Since it rewards you aesthetically for using a large team, I assume the Devs intended for that to happen, though anyone who's played Lunatic and above knows that smaller = easier in most cases. Hard with full deployment keeps the ratio of unit power between you and the enemy relatively consistent with even leveling, but it breaks down if you go outside of that- exp doesn't fall off fast enough going up to prevent even a non-Veteran (though Veteran sure makes it easier) unit from easily stepping far enough above the stat curve to obsolete a full team, and particularly on Lunatic exp doesn't increase fast enough to keep your whole team relevant if you try to feed them all- you'll get overran the moment Promotes start showing up.

What we got does work (especially in Lunatic(+)), but I don't think it works in the way it was supposed to. Of course this is entirely subjective so feel free to disagree, this is just my stance on the matter.

Yeah the system works as is, but it's a matter-of-debate whether it works as intended or not. But it does work, especially in regards to Lunatic+.

Also, I thought it was kind of obvious I was joking with the objective-spam?

[ckc22]

Let's also not forget the lack of multiple/different map objectives aside from...

There are a few missions that are varying types that are sort of disguised as "rte" like chapters 6 & 12 - which are ~pseudo defend your position maps. While I'd welcome more varied mission type - defend/protect/escape/seize, I think map design was also an issue. There are A LOT of open fields. And the maps that are inside were kind of simple/uninspired compared to some of the inside GBA maps.

Veteran isn't widely available enough to be "broken" to me.

I'd really like to see a set Lunatic/Lunatic+ mode where the maps have actually been designed instead of just handing enemies random skill/skill+ traits but I don't think that will happen.

[Moishe Oofnik]

I know you're all probably thinking "oh great, this topic again", and yeah, it is partially "this topic again", but I haven't seen anyone else bring up having the same take on it as I do, so...

Anyway, you'd have to be pretty out of it not to notice that lots of people have been complaining about Fire Emblem Awakening. Admittedly, a lot of the complaints they have about the game are valid. The story and worldbuilding are extremely lackluster compared to most other entries in the series; the characters are written in a much more lighthearted manner, with many of them seeming to be based on a particular trope or quirk; the chapter design is mostly bland and repetitive; Pair Up is a broken mechanic, etc., etc.

Now, my theory as to why this is is that the game was rushed.

In the Iwata Asks interview with the development team, they mentioned that by the time they got around to actually making the game itself, they didn't actually have a whole lot of time left to do it, at least for a game of its intended scope. Or at least, they implied it, mentioning that they were quite impressed that they were able to get done as much as they did in the time that they had.

However, as many have already noted, the game still lacks polish in a number of areas.

The storyline has many of the telltale signs of a rushed plot:

• Little to no worldbuilding is given beyond what the audience absolutely needs to know to understand what's going on.
• World Building isnt needed if the world doesnt push an adventure aspect into your face so its not really a problem You only need things to be established enough so they dont stray from the main plot
• Partially as a result of these worldbuilding deficiencies, a lot of the characters come across as lacking some of the depth that the characters of earlier games had, because the lack of world detail restricts their backstories and character endings to being very basic or vague. The casts of other Fire Emblem games existed in worlds that were more fleshed-out, so each character sort of had a place in their world that helped them feel more connected to everything and contributed to making them more compelling. Awakening's characters don't have much of a world to have places in.I'm not saying this is the only problem with Awakening's cast, but it's definitely the one that sticks out most to me after some thought, considering that some of the other problems with the cast stem from it.
• Character dev=/=World building alot of the character have generic lines and very basic personalitys and almost no development in them but I cant say more then that in most other FEs FE1 is much worse story wise
• The first plot arc is the most fleshed-out and the best-constructed (although still not as well-thought out as it could be) with the arcs afterwards declining in detail and finesse.
• What are you talking about the 1st arc was indeed the best arc but It wasnt very good in its own right characters were barely established and the concept felt like a little miniseries to prepare you to the actual plot in mid game
• Transitions from arc to arc are very poorly done and lead to one of the arcs feeling nearly completely disconnected from the other two and essentially unnecessary (beyond the fact that the threat in that arc isn't exactly something the protagonists could just ignore).
• Agreed
• On a few occasions, characters show up who seem to be intended to be more important and/or impactful than the amount of screen time or development they get leads to them being. Ex. The Hierarch, Yen'fay, maybe Pheros and Mustafa. The Hierarch in particular seems like he's a remnant of a scrapped subplot.
• Agreed
• A few important antagonists don't have their motivations fleshed out hardly at all in the main plot, with those motivations being revealed instead in optional conversations that are only unlocked long after the characters have stopped being relevant to the plot. These motivations aren't really hinted at in the main story, either.
• Agreed +Most of the villains dont have character and are bland they are less arvis more julius(even julius has his bit fair share of character more then them)
• The Avatar's involvement in the plot is very strange. The promotion for the game plays them up as being the player's presence in the world, and the ability to customize their stat balance and cosmetic traits would be consistent with this, as would be the fact that they are supposedly the one giving the orders to your troops to make their moves. However, for the purposes of the main plot, the Avatar is essentially a fixed character, with what few choices you get to make at major plot milestones having quite literally no effect on how things turn out whatsoever aside from what the next dozen or so lines of dialogue will be. The sole exception to this is the final decision, which does have an effect, although it's not really much of a choice.

  I think the problem with the Avatar isn't as much their existence as the fact that they haven't been done right yet. New Mystery attempted to shoehorn them (poorly) into an existing plot that was not designed to accommodate for their existence, and Awakening ended up half-assing the concept of a player-created main character.

• Its the same as FE12 just worse because they made him special and be the most special person ever in FE12 you were at least not special but infact a normal person
• The Plot is Extremely derivitive it takes many elements from FE4 and incoporates them in awakening although poorly

Then there's the chapter design and gameplay features.

• Pair Up was just not adequately balanced, plain and simple, but I think the chapter design has something to do with it, too, because there are very few chapters (I can think of just one. Out of fifty) wherein it's better to have a larger amount of adequate characters rather than a smaller amount of stronger characters, because...
• Pair Up was an overpowered shit that critics like plain and simple
• Almost every chapter was made using the same basic design concept, which would've made things a lot easier on a development team pressed for time. That design concept is basically, "Player starts on one end of the map, enemies are sort of centralized on the other, you win by fighting your way across and killing all of them". Now granted, this sort of chapter design is pretty common in the series, but- well, firstly, many of the other games offset it by having it not be the only thing you're doing all-game- but Awakening seems to do it mostly the same way every time. There are a few interesting maps to navigate, but for the most part they're just pretty straightforward marches from one end to the other, and the game rarely gives you incentive to split up your team, which leads into...
• Level design was bad in many fire emblems too (Inserts Athos Forblaze FE6 chapter) or repeating the samething but yea FE13 was preety stale and bland
• The fact that Awakening's chapters rarely have much in the way of secondary objectives (villages to save, optional characters who can't just be easily recruited by the end of turn 2, etc.), and even fewer have secondary objectives which you're actually being seriously pressed to accomplish.
• Agreed
• Granted, there are a few good chapter designs in there and there are some chapters where you do kinda have to get on it to accomplish secondary objectives (getting the treasure chests in Donnel's Paralogue is one example of the latter I can think of, as well as protecting Severa in her Paralogue, and I guess the three chapters where you're defending villagers could count, too, but one of those can be cleared in one turn pretty easily before the enemies can even act), but I think what it comes down to is too many of Awakening's chapters are too same-y in terms of what you're doing, and after a while it becomes a chore to do them rather than something that's fun.
• Agreed

Compare Awakening's level design to that of other Fire Emblem games, which have not only multiple objectives, but maps that make for different experiences in accomplishing the same objectives as you've seen before. Just a few examples off the top of my head are:

• Chapter 8 of Sacred Stones, a Seize chapter which brings in Ephraim's team a turn or so into the battle such that your teams are split, and you're likely to end up taking on the map on both sides simultaneously with the respective halves of your team.
• Eh The map design isnt really great but yea somewhat agreed+Ephraims Team moves at a slower rate so you can get to the center before they do much action anyway
• Chapter 18 in Shadow Dragon, another Seize chapter which has two bridges, separated by a small peninsula, connecting the north and south ends of the map, meaning that you need to keep your team together and have only a small space in which to navigate much of the map on the way to the castle.
• Somewhat Agreed but I have some deep hatred for bridges
• Chapter 14 in Blazing Sword, a Rout chapter where you take on Erik's army on a central battlefield whilst rushing to save recruitable characters to the north and south as well as attempting to defend Merlinus from Pirate attacks.
• Honestly that chapter is a great Example of good Enemy Placement on a rather simple map design
• Jerme's version of Chapter 25/27 in Blazing Sword, a different Rout chapter which presents a number of locked rooms, and tasks you with exploring and unlocking them to find and kill all the enemies.
• Agreed

Now, I'm not saying that all of these chapters have exemplary designs or anything, but they're proof that you can make two chapters play differently even if the objective is the same, something that Awakening didn't do nearly enough. Awakening may not be entirely devoid of chapter design variety, but the level of variety is not nearly high enough for fifty maps' worth of gameplay.

My point in making this thread is that a lot of posts I've seen criticizing Awakening and worrying about the future of the franchise don't seem to take into account the relatively short time the developers had in which to make the actual game. I had originally got to thinking about this when I came to the conclusion that I felt that Awakening's story wasn't necessarily bad in premise, but if someone were to hand it as it is in the final game to me for feedback, I would tell them that they weren't done working on it yet.

And I think that's really the reason for a lot of the problems with Fire Emblem Awakening. IS- even if we specify post-Kaga IS- has shown that they can do better than Awakening's plot depth and chapter design, so I doubt it's a matter of what they can or can't do as much as it is about the level of quality the development time allowed for. I'm fairly certain they didn't intend for Awakening to have the weaknesses that it did, but it ended up that way because of what they chose to prioritize doing in the time that they had to make the game.

Edited March 3, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Interceptor]

These threads are always great for exposing posters who have #HotGamingTakes -- especially with regard to Pair-up -- although somewhat amazingly we don't have anyone complaining about how Lunatic+ is stupid/random/impossible. Dare I call it progress?

To take one random point worth expanding on: Awakening's map design is pretty decent, at least outside of the last few chapters of the game (where you run into masses of units in the open). The early ones especially are like mini-puzzles. If someone says that pre-Valm's maps are bland/uninspired, I just have a hard time taking that person's opinion seriously: either you aren't paying attention, or your standards are so high as to be comical.

[Sentacotus]

I think by adding varied mission objectives would naturally create more varied maps and kinda kill two birds with one stone. For example, a defense map would naturally have funnels and chokepoints and perhaps a weak wall on the flank. An escape map would have multiple branching pathways and so on. I don't have really many complaints about Awakening at all but if asked if I could change one thing to improve it then it would be that. The first few maps are pretty cool (Ch3, 6, 10, 14) are my favorites but I did really like the chapter going up the giant tree thing to get Tiki and the open battle with Walhart.

[XeKr]

It seems apparent to me that many complaints regard surface-level flavor mechanics such as magic triangle, or varied map objectives. For this there is even some precedence to appeal toward in Archanea, which has traditionally had neither. I’ll say again that this isn’t necessarily bad (as flavor is very important), but that it merely means the streamlining went too far for some fans (especially those who favor Tellius, I think). I like the streamlining myself, as I consider it a key characteristic of FE compared to other tactical/strategy games, how simple and clean the mechanics are (like how battle forecast calculations are so transparent and easily computable).

The only other thing I want to add about map design is, note how often people give examples of “good” map design that can be trivialized by throwing an op prepromote at it, or warping, or such. >_>

Edited March 3, 2015 by XeKr

[-Cynthia-]

These threads are always great for exposing posters who have #HotGamingTakes -- especially with regard to Pair-up -- although somewhat amazingly we don't have anyone complaining about how Lunatic+ is stupid/random/impossible. Dare I call it progress?

To take one random point worth expanding on: Awakening's map design is pretty decent, at least outside of the last few chapters of the game (where you run into masses of units in the open). The early ones especially are like mini-puzzles. If someone says that pre-Valm's maps are bland/uninspired, I just have a hard time taking that person's opinion seriously: either you aren't paying attention, or your standards are so high as to be comical.

Eh I found a few of the pre-Valm maps not so great either. C7 just throws axemen and wyverns at you in an open field, I guess you can stand on mountains and stuff though. C11 is just a bunch of enemies in a field with some chests around for some reason.

Edited March 3, 2015 by -Cynthia-

[Interceptor]

I think by adding varied mission objectives would naturally create more varied maps and kinda kill two birds with one stone. For example, a defense map would naturally have funnels and chokepoints and perhaps a weak wall on the flank. An escape map would have multiple branching pathways and so on. I don't have really many complaints about Awakening at all but if asked if I could change one thing to improve it then it would be that. The first few maps are pretty cool (Ch3, 6, 10, 14) are my favorites but I did really like the chapter going up the giant tree thing to get Tiki and the open battle with Walhart.

This is why I tell people to pay attention to the map design: Awakening already has varied "objectives" in the game, the difference is that it doesn't get in your face about it and say "HEY BUDDY THIS IS A DEFENSE MAP OK". Awakening is very good (at least early on) at providing pressure in the form of vulnerable recruitable units, strategically placed terrain, special environmental effects, enemy reinforcements, etc.

For example, Ch6 is basically a Defend mission in all but name. Emm will get wrecked out by anything that reaches her, there is no One Ring easy-mode choke available, enemy Thieves will drop the door if you let them (how's that for a weak wall on the flank?), and the boss eventually rushes you. It's a really high-intensity chapter, especially if you're on a serious difficulty level.

An escape mission? I give to you, Chapter 21. You have to get to the boss and kill him before the Mire sorcs (which are unreachable under normal circumstances) overwhelm your army. There are numerous places where you can stop and pick up treasure, but stop too long and you'll have reinforcements spawning on top of you. There's no stupid little Navi-fairy that hovers around your head and says "GET OUT OF DODGE BEFORE TURN XYZ", but hey look at that, you basically get the exact same crunch of time and hard choices unless your army is full of shit-stomping badasses. See also: lava in Ch18, or the backdoor reinforcements in Ch16.

Objectives are useless visual noise when your maps accomplish the same thing just with their design. Awakening isn't perfect in this regard (as I said, the later maps are uneven and will fall into "open plain full of stats"), but generally speaking they had the right idea early.

[Sentacotus]

For example, Ch6 is basically a Defend mission in all but name. Emm will get wrecked out by anything that reaches her, there is no One Ring easy-mode choke available, enemy Thieves will drop the door if you let them (how's that for a weak wall on the flank?), and the boss eventually rushes you. It's a really high-intensity chapter, especially if you're on a serious difficulty level.

An escape mission? I give to you, Chapter 21. You have to get to the boss and kill him before the Mire sorcs (which are unreachable under normal circumstances) overwhelm your army. There are numerous places where you can stop and pick up treasure, but stop too long and you'll have reinforcements spawning on top of you. There's no stupid little Navi-fairy that hovers around your head and says "GET OUT OF DODGE BEFORE TURN XYZ", but hey look at that, you basically get the exact same crunch of time and hard choices unless your army is full of shit-stomping badasses. See also: lava in Ch18, or the backdoor reinforcements in Ch16.

Those are some pretty good points that I never really thought of before all in all like I said I loved the hell out of Awakening and have played it more than any other FE game I've owned. I just feel that actual objectives would maybe just improve the game a little more and maybe lend the developers a little more focus in making the maps. I don't know but I just remember in alot of the defense maps of RD and the escape/arrive objectives in PoR just felt different again thats probably just personal preference.

[Czar_Yoshi]

C7 just throws axemen and wyverns at you in an open field,

I'd hardly call Cht.7 an open field...

There's no stupid little Navi-fairy that hovers around your head and says "GET OUT OF DODGE BEFORE TURN XYZ"

I'm not sure passively telling the player what kind of map they're on is comparable in obnoxiousness to being halted in your tracks to be reminded of a goal you received five minutes ago, but Awakening's maps do indeed have the full set of varied objectives present.

[KMT4ever]

Those are some pretty good points that I never really thought of before all in all like I said I loved the hell out of Awakening and have played it more than any other FE game I've owned. I just feel that actual objectives would maybe just improve the game a little more and maybe lend the developers a little more focus in making the maps. I don't know but I just remember in alot of the defense maps of RD and the escape/arrive objectives in PoR just felt different again thats probably just personal preference.

Agreed. While Chapter 6 is effectively a defense map, that only lasts until you've killed all 20-ish of the enemies. When I think of defense maps in FE I think of levels like Sands of Time from FE7, where it's just endless waves of enemies constantly coming at you. Granted it isn't very hard to tear through those waves, but that is the sort of thing a defense map should be. Overall the lack of variety is pretty annoying in my current run. There needs to be something to mix into the standard plan of "Kill everything."

Plot-wise I don't particularly care much, since FE has always been more about gameplay for me. I do feel that the support system caters rather overtly to shippers, although you can ignore that if you want to.

Gameplay-wise Pair-up and even Dual Support are ridiculously OP. In Lunatic, which I admittedly have not played, it is crucial, but in Hard Classic where I generally spend my time, I can send Swordmaster!Robin S-supported with Lucina in and they will kill half the map and maybe get hit once each. I don't even have to pair them up to do this. On my current run I've gotten to Chapter 19 with a full team without having EVER used Pair-Up in combat and while limiting myself to plain Steel weapons and E-level magic. I'm not even very good at FE. One addition I do like is the fact that enemies will now aggro in groups and generally attack on their own accord, so it's no longer possible to lure in enemies one by one. Overall I feel that IS tried to make this game very easy in order to appeal to new players. Awakening's success did save the series though, so I can't really fault them for it.

Awakening is a really fun game, but I honestly got more entertainment out of Blazing Sword and Radiant Dawn.

[Interceptor]

Agreed. While Chapter 6 is effectively a defense map, that only lasts until you've killed all 20-ish of the enemies. When I think of defense maps in FE I think of levels like Sands of Time from FE7, where it's just endless waves of enemies constantly coming at you. Granted it isn't very hard to tear through those waves, but that is the sort of thing a defense map should be. Overall the lack of variety is pretty annoying in my current run. There needs to be something to mix into the standard plan of "Kill everything."

Awakening has higher difficulties for a reason; I don't want to hear complaints about pacing from people who are grinding away on the bunny slope at the ski resort. Anyone who thinks that Ch6 doesn't feel like a "Defend" map, is invited to play it on Lunatic+ without the Outrealm Gate. There are no atheists in foxholes, and no Lunatic veterans who think that Pair-Up is "ridiculously OP".

Awakening is a really fun game, but I honestly got more entertainment out of Blazing Sword and Radiant Dawn.

I used to enjoy the classic titles, but Awakening murdered my enjoyment of anything older than Shadow Dragon. I say this as a player who was introduced to the series at Radiant Dawn; while I enjoyed going back and playing the GBA titles at first, as of a couple years ago I simply can't stand them anymore.

Unpopular opinion alert: games should be fun, and the fun:work ratio of Awakening is the highest of any game in the series. Everything about the UI and game flow is designed to stay the f'n hell out of my way, and let me do cool things. By comparison, Blazing Sword feels like going to the Post Office.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Interceptor

[Moishe Oofnik]

Awakening has higher difficulties for a reason; I don't want to hear complaints about pacing from people who are grinding away on the bunny slope at the ski resort. Anyone who thinks that Ch6 doesn't feel like a "Defend" map, is invited to play it on Lunatic+ without the Outrealm Gate. There are no atheists in foxholes, and no Lunatic veterans who think that Pair-Up is "ridiculously OP".

Played Lunatic pair up is still overpowered and should get nerfs really but its not ridiculous as it is in hard/normal Luna+ has cheap difficulty which has soft reseting incooporated in it +high turn counts so dont lecture that luna+ isnt cheap difficulty with the +skills

I used to enjoy the classic titles, but Awakening murdered my enjoyment of anything older than Shadow Dragon. I say this as a player who was introduced to the series at Radiant Dawn; while I enjoyed going back and playing the GBA titles at first, as of a couple years ago I simply can't stand them anymore.

Your Personal Prefrence.I cant stand shadow dragon in anything that isnt h5 because at least h5 is fun

Unpopular opinion alert: games should be fun, and the fun:work ratio of Awakening is the highest of any game in the series. Everything about the UI and game flow is designed to stay the f'n hell out of my way, and let me do cool things. By comparison, Blazing Sword feels like going to the Post Office.

I like to work for my fun and again your personal prefrence

[Interceptor]

Please learn to quote posts properly.

Played Lunatic pair up is still overpowered and should get nerfs really but its not ridiculous as it is in hard/normal Luna+ has cheap difficulty which has soft reseting incooporated in it +high turn counts so dont lecture that luna+ isnt cheap difficulty with the +skills

I feel pretty comfortable with my original statement; your position is hyperbolic and unreasonable.

I like to work for my fun and again your personal prefrence

It's spelled "preference", and I did specifically say that it was an unpopular opinion.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Lunatic+ isn't cheap. We have reliable strats that can get people through Prologue through C3 inclusive, almost regardless of enemy skills and with relatively low Robin stat benchmarks. Yes, these reliable strats often include higher turn counts. That's why they're reliable. If you want to LTC on any difficulty, you risk losing units/the map/turns if something doesn't go off perfectly. Soft resetting is not built into Lunatic+, it is built into LTCing.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Lunatic+ isn't cheap. We have reliable strats that can get people through Prologue through C3 inclusive, almost regardless of enemy skills and with relatively low Robin stat benchmarks. Yes, these reliable strats often include higher turn counts. That's why they're reliable. If you want to LTC on any difficulty, you risk losing units/the map/turns if something doesn't go off perfectly. Soft resetting is not built into Lunatic+, it is built into LTCing.

Givng an enemy an unfair advantage in a whole new set of 100% skills is preety cheap in my book I guess we have diffrent defenitions of fairness

Losing a unit in normal or hard LTC is unlikely unless you like got a really unlikely crit

Please learn to quote posts properly.

will do

I feel pretty comfortable with my original statement; your position is hyperbolic and unreasonable.

Why because you disagree doesnt it doesnt make my statement hyperbolic pair up is already known to have no cons and you cant really deny that but I dont like the mechanic as a whole so mabye its my personal preference(I acknowledge my bias)

It's spelled "preference", and I did specifically say that it was an unpopular opinion.

So again its your personal preference dont treat it as truth

Edited March 4, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Um, an 100% activation skill makes it consistent and predictable. These skills will proc and they can be planned around. Further, they're generally designed to counter pet faceroll strats. It makes the player pay in map resets for employing the Fire Emblem series' ye olde strat of plopping a super unit in the middle of the next group of enemies and ending turn.

Losing a unit is only one thing that can go wrong with an LTC strat. Pushing things as low as possible generally involve having to rig low chance procs, crits, etc. There's a reason I gave more than one example there. A common scenario that doesn't involve anyone dying is someone failing to kill an enemy, which allows reinforcements to spawn, which now must be killed and costs a bunch of turns.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Um, an 100% activation skill makes it consistent and predictable. These skills will proc and they can be planned around. Further, they're generally designed to counter pet faceroll strats. It makes the player pay in map resets for employing the Fire Emblem series' ye olde strat of plopping a super unit in the middle of the next group of enemies and ending turn.

Losing a unit is only one thing that can go wrong with an LTC strat. Pushing things as low as possible generally involve having to rig low chance procs, crits, etc. There's a reason I gave more than one example there. A common scenario that doesn't involve anyone dying is someone failing to kill an enemy, which allows reinforcements to spawn, which now must be killed and costs a bunch of turns.

wow your idea of the reason they was made is even more cheap they cant make the AI smart so they make them have OP always proc skills IS is clearly lazy with there AI is what i got from this

Reinforcements that block your path is the only thing to get rid off really LTC isnt about exp thats more effieciency LTC is about getting the lowest amounts of turns possible

[Czar_Yoshi]

Unpopular opinion alert: games should be fun, and the fun:work ratio of Awakening is the highest of any game in the series. Everything about the UI and game flow is designed to stay the f'n hell out of my way, and let me do cool things. By comparison, Blazing Sword feels like going to the Post Office.

I should hope that's not an unpopular opinion. There is no way any of the other FEs have even close to the smoothness and polish of Awakening's menus.

Played Lunatic pair up is still overpowered and should get nerfs really but its not ridiculous as it is in hard/normal Luna+ has cheap difficulty which has soft reseting incooporated in it +high turn counts so dont lecture that luna+ isnt cheap difficulty with the +skills

Lunatic+ isn't cheap, it's just so hard that most people can't even comprehend it. If resetting endlessly for favorable skills was the only way to beat it, then it would be but as-is there are far better ways that can be found with a very large amount of patience and skill.

Normal is supposed to be the way it is. You intentionally are given as much leeway as possible there so you can experiment freely with the game's mechanics without being punished, which is a very important feature for a complex SRPG designed to draw in large amounts of new fans. It's not intended for people who already know what they're doing (unless they want a lawnmower simulator).

Pairup only causes troubles on Hard if you use it to get someone ahead of the exp curve faster. If you're keeping a full team trained and at a relatively consistent level, the boosts from pairup will be turning normal units into good units, not making one excellent unit fully invincible. The game could stand to do more to promote this by adjusting the exp formula so exp falls off faster for overleveled units or adding a ranking/condition for the true end that would reward you for training more units, but as-is Pairup only makes things that are already broken in Hard more broken, not to break anything itself.

Also, please keep in mind that strong =/= overpowered. Pairup in Lunatic is very strong, as is evident by how much harder a no Pairup run is than a run with Pairup. But it's not overpowered, because the enemy is strong enough to take it and more.

wow your idea of the reason they was made is even more cheap they cant make the AI smart so they make them have OP always proc skills IS is clearly lazy with there AI is what i got from this

Reinforcements that block your path is the only thing to get rid off really LTC isnt about exp thats more effieciency LTC is about getting the lowest amounts of turns possible

AI has nothing to do with this. The fact is that the skills force you to go out of your way to handle them, but can be handled nonetheless.

Reinforcements appearing means it takes more turns to get rid of all the enemies, which is a problem if you want the lowest turn count possible.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Moishe Oofnik]

I should hope that's not an unpopular opinion. There is no way any of the other FEs have even close to the smoothness and polish of Awakening's menus.

Lunatic+ isn't cheap, it's just so hard that most people can't even comprehend it. If resetting endlessly for favorable skills was the only way to beat it, then it would be but as-is there are far better ways that can be found with a very large amount of patience and skill.

Normal is supposed to be the way it is. You intentionally are given as much leeway as possible there so you can experiment freely with the game's mechanics without being punished, which is a very important feature for a complex SRPG designed to draw in large amounts of new fans. It's not intended for people who already know what they're doing (unless they want a lawnmower simulator).

Pairup only causes troubles on Hard if you use it to get someone ahead of the exp curve faster. If you're keeping a full team trained and at a relatively consistent level, the boosts from pairup will be turning normal units into good units, not making one excellent unit fully invincible. The game could stand to do more to promote this by adjusting the exp formula so exp falls off faster for overleveled units or adding a ranking/condition for the true end that would reward you for training more units, but as-is Pairup only makes things that are already broken in Hard more broken, not to break anything itself.

Also, please keep in mind that strong =/= overpowered. Pairup in Lunatic is very strong, as is evident by how much harder a no Pairup run is than a run with Pairup. But it's not overpowered, because the enemy is strong enough to take it and more.

AI has nothing to do with this. The fact is that the skills force you to go out of your way to handle them, but can be handled nonetheless.

Reinforcements appearing means it takes more turns to get rid of all the enemies, which is a problem if you want the lowest turn count possible.

Luna+ Skils are cheap not the difficulty as a whole (which is lunatic with the + skills)

It gives the enemy an unfair advantage but well pair ups gives you a rather unfair advantage

[Czar_Yoshi]

Reasons, bro. Don't just say something's unfair and leave it at that. We've made our case, now make yours.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Reasons, bro. Don't just say something's unfair and leave it at that. We've made our case, now make yours.

I already noted my reasons of why luna+ Skills are not fair the player has no access to them they always proc and dont promote challenging AI ts the same thing as luna with giving the enemies haxor skills that will always proc

Giving the enemies exclusive hax skills isnt promoting real difficulty its just giving hax to the enemy

2 am btw this is my last post for tonight

Edited March 5, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Knusperkeks]

I never played any FE besides Awakening (I wouldn't really count the 7th one, which I recently picked up, at which I am currently sitting at chapter 2)

Personally, there are a few things I do not like about awakening.

• One of them is the fact that the game has many useful, cool looking and practical weapons, most of which one is unable to use because it's literally impossible to reliably get your hands on them without using spotpass.
  
• Weapons like the Levin Sword, Shockstick and Bolt Axe have what seems to be arbitrary rank requirements. Levin/stick have C rank, why is the Bolt axe on B? By the time I have a unit with high magic and B rank axes, it doesn't matter anymore which weapon I use. Hand axes come at C and are much cheaper and more readily available.
  Their rarity makes them too awesome to use, which will lead to nobody using them.
  I wish there were D rank, or even E rank equivalents of these magic based weapons (BESIDES TOMES). Give them the same might as their physical counterparts, and suddenly you can increase resistance bases/growths on every single character which is lacking it. Same with defense.
  
• Why does the Shockstick have only a range of 1? I'm almost certain this is an oversight in game design.
  
• I never understood the reason why the males were specialized in defense, while female characters are good in resistance.
  [spoiler=tanget on weapon ranks]Once I made calculations for the weapon rank bonuses, thinking that the Brave Sword was statistically superior to any other weapon, for no apparent reason. I came to the conclusion that the weapon rank bonuses are very well balanced, so clearly somebody put a lot of effort into it.

• Specific shops sell only a couple of items. Not good game design in my opinion, especially since the Risen skirmishes spawn randomly and can screw you over big time. Mostly a concern of higher difficulty levels.
  Shops which unlock new items should share their assortment with other merchants (the old man shopkeeper, not Anna). That's what happens in real life as well.
  
• About game mechanics: Increasing returns on defensive stats is absolutely horrible game design, so much that even Luna+ is only a band-aid against it. I say that as person who played wow for half a decade, most of it as a tank.
  
• Luna should be skill*2%, chance to ignore 25% of def/res, Sol should be skill*2% to heal for 25%, Aether should be skill% with these changes in mind.
  
• The whole formula of damage taken needs to be re-configured. Make spellcasters have 10-30% damage reduction, fight profficient classes 30-50% and tank classes 50-70% damage reduction, give tanks a skill they can use to raise defensive capabilities.
  Call it "self-rally-res/def" or w/e, I don't care.
  Right now there is no reason to play anything but Dark Mages/Sorcerers (on anything that's not Lunatic+) because they are absolutely broken, with high HP and defense growth and vengeance on top of it.
  
• Delete Nosferatu.