What I hope won't happen in if's narrative.

[Saladus]

I hope that the game doesn't pull a case of: "Let's all be friends against the final boss"

It's too easy to use that as an excuse to erase or ignore previous conflicts or incidents. That way, after [iNSERT NAME HERE] is beaten, the setting is set into sunny days no matter what happened.

Even with a threat to both East and West, that doesn't make a team-up required. Der Langrisser had at least two factions (Descendants of Light, Rayguard) out to stop or counter Chaos. However, Rayguard's kaiser was also out for the conquest or aid of the rest of the continent. The factions were mutually exclusive. No matter how dangerous Chaos was, it was either the DoLs, Rayguard, Chaos, or Erwin.

Even if you can only play in two routes, no-team ups. Maybe you can recruit some of the enemy faction's units.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Saladus

[Soledai]

Another Der Langrisser player, eh?

I thought the same to an extent. You could, in a sense, beat or annex your foes, and then take on the greater foe, even make a small truce to beat the greater foe or even better, like in Der Langrisser, make your own force and take them all out... I would actually like to see that specifically, but I doubt it would happen.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Soledai

[TheEnd]

I'm expecting scenario #3 to play like that.

[MoonlitSonata]

What would be interesting is if you had to team up against the final boss is if the game recognized which countries people from your final team are from, and then a comment be made from people of the other country notice that your final boss team is heavily balanced towards one side, almost implying that Kamui is biased towards a certain country and want that particular country to be remembered in the history books as the one who had most of the glory in saving the world or whatnot.

Probably wouldn't happen since IS wants FE games to end on a happy note but it would be an interesting moment to have.

[Radiant head]

I'm all for breaking cliches, but really, what would you do instead?

[Mighty Kamina]

I'm all for breaking cliches, but really, what would you do instead?

Have it end with one side crushed. After all, you did choose which side to play over the other.

[omega zero]

Man, it would make for some memorable moments/drama if you had to strike down your blood relatives or your childhood friends and mentors.

The Third Path DLC might have you recruit all characters from both sides and form a new faction, or play the role as an arbiter.

[Saladus]

Or have you join the monster faction. Or have you make a run for emperor.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Saladus

[The Geek]

Third storyline: Conquer everything and become the emperor/empress of the world.

[Soledai]

Third storyline: Conquer everything and become the emperor/empress of the world.

Have you played Der Langrisser?

You can do that.

[Kiddo]

Liking the Langrisser comparisons in this thread.

It's almost disappointing that there's only 3 confirmed plot branches in If so far.

Well, I'd say Chaos path in Der Langrisser was kinda dumb and pointless, but even outside of that Der Langrisser seems more "branching" at the moment than the seemingly clear-cut "3 story paths" FEif has. Especially considering how it seems like there's a good bit more potential in regard to how this can branch, considering how the factions are much more closely tied to the protagonist on a personal level than in Der Langrisser.

[Saladus]

How was the Chaos path ''dumb and pointless''? You can play Erwin in a way that joining Boser is fitting.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Saladus

[feplus]

Comparing the choice systems of Der Langrisser and Fire Emblem: If is a disservice to Der Langrisser.

In that game, you made choices based on your ideals. Do you value righteousness, or stability through power? Do you sympathize more with humans or with demons? Do you trust others to improve the world, or do you wish to seize control for yourself?

Based on what we know, If is a "choice" (and, at least for some players, not even an in-game choice) between bloodline and loyalty. You either roll with the evil invading empire because of family, or you roll with the pacifist do-gooder Nippons because of loyalty. Given the "choice" happens as early as Chapter 6, it's improbable the player will learn much about the motivations of your invader buddies, so the only reason you'd pick them besides bloodline is the thrill of playing as the antagonist.

A good moral choice system offers meaningful moral choices. Der Langrisser does, all signs indicate FE:If doesn't.

[Saladus]

I would have an eye on this game if the Third Path had Kamui burn his bridges to both kingdoms and join the threat to both kingdoms.

We know Kamui is a manakete. I can see a disgruntled Kamui rejecting both factions, and walking into the path of the monsters (or whoever). Maybe she would even embrace dragonhood.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Saladus

[HowTragic]

Scenario #3: Become the boss. Kill off both kingdoms.

Assert dominance.

[sirmola]

I love how skyrim had the factions in the civil war deal with the world-ending threat (assuming that the player has not resolved the civli war arc by that point in the main plot). THey hold an extremely tence piece confrence only at the urging of a famiously impartial faction, and only at that faction's castle. After tence negotiations, they agree to a temporary truce, but are at it again in the post-game content. Heck, if the civil war arc has progressed to a certain point, they refuse to even hold the confrence and you must finish the arc before continuing the plot. I liked how that is essetualy how it would go in real life, even if sitting through the piece confrence got a little boring.

[astrophys]

You either roll with the evil invading empire because of family, or you roll with the pacifist do-gooder Nippons because of loyalty.

I don't think its actually going to be that simple.

I'd bet that Hoshido is going to have its own dark secrets as well. They may be peace loving, but at what cost?

Consider an analogy to the SMT series, where both Law and Chaos traditionally each have some points, but they also have their own shares of hypocrisy and often get taken to too far extremes. (And those games also have a Neutral Route in which you forge your own path separate from the two extremes).

So, similarly, perhaps Hoshido may be peaceful but not necessarily as "good" as one might first believe.

Likewise, I've been seeing a lot of people automatically classifying Nohr as the "evil" side. I imagine that its more likely to either be a morally gray side or otherwise have a substantial mix of characters who could be considered "good" alongside characters who could be considered "evil".

Actually, I think Hoshido will have some morally gray elements as well, particularly evident if you play the Nohr campaign.

[IceBrand]

Comparing the choice systems of Der Langrisser and Fire Emblem: If is a disservice to Der Langrisser.

In that game, you made choices based on your ideals. Do you value righteousness, or stability through power? Do you sympathize more with humans or with demons? Do you trust others to improve the world, or do you wish to seize control for yourself?

Based on what we know, If is a "choice" (and, at least for some players, not even an in-game choice) between bloodline and loyalty. You either roll with the evil invading empire because of family, or you roll with the pacifist do-gooder Nippons because of loyalty. Given the "choice" happens as early as Chapter 6, it's improbable the player will learn much about the motivations of your invader buddies, so the only reason you'd pick them besides bloodline is the thrill of playing as the antagonist.

A good moral choice system offers meaningful moral choices. Der Langrisser does, all signs indicate FE:If doesn't.

Why are you so antagonistic to IF?

[B.Leu]

Do take note that, even if there is some pararrel between If and SMT, nothing say that anything will come out from it, so don't get your hopes up too much, you might be dissapointed. :p

Doesn't change the fact that what you said is very appealing to me. Like a kebab. And I'm hungry. :p

I can't really blame feplus for being pessimistic. considering the story of Awakening, and that myself don't like the two separate versions gimmick. :p

Der Langriser had four path, Light, Dark, Imperial, Independent. it literally had every path you want. Well excepted fhe 'Kill everything', but it would be hard to do. Compared to Awakening and If...

Independent path, best path of the game, IMHO.

It's kind of jarring when Snes games gives you more feels than a 3DS-game, just saying. I still wait for the game itself before judging everything.

Edited April 2, 2015 by B.Leu

[Soledai]

Der Langriser had four path, Light, Dark, Imperial, Independent. it literally had every path you want. Well excepted fhe 'Kill everything', but it would be hard to do. Compared to Awakening and If...

Independent path, best path of the game, IMHO.

It's kind of jarring when Snes games gives you more feels than a 3DS-game, just saying. I still wait for the game itself before judging everything.

I just came here to agree with that. But, the Independent route kind of was the "kill everything" route, considering you literally beat everybody, Liana being the only, optional, exception.

I wouldn't call it jarring, I would say something like: "It had to come from somewhere, after all" also quality, etc.

But if anything really, they can make the path splits and the reasons for them as simple as they like, I want to see a good presentation of it, is all.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Soledai

[B.Leu]

I just came here to agree with that. But, the Independent route kind of was the "kill everything" route, considering you literally beat everybody, Liana being the only, optional, exception.

I wouldn't call it jarring, I would say something like: "It had to come from somewhere, after all" also quality, etc.

But if anything really, they can make the path splits and the reasons for them as simple as they like, I want to see a good presentation of it, is all.

Good point. But at that moment when I was talking about 'Kill everything', I was literally talking about 'kill everything' and only that.

Independent ending was much more than beating everything and successing, it was also doing what most of the characters couldn't do, be the king, be the strongest, and granting peace for everybody. Which is kind of ironic, considering the process of it. :p

That's how freaking Walhart and his country should've been. Conqueror my ass. Say hello to the rushed Valm arc.

They just make me laugh with their, 'Join me, blabla bla', I just want to put a sword between their eyes. :D

What doesn't make me laugh it's when I'm forced to choose between them and nothing else.

'Join us, we're your familly by blood' 'Join us, we raised you.' No. I don't like you. I don't want you. Suck on my dragonstone.

But ultimately, I agree, as long as they do it well, I have no issue, it's annoying yeah, but ah...

Edited April 2, 2015 by B.Leu

[Ledah*]

Man all this talk about Der Langrisser just get me more pumped out for the new "Masaya" RPG in Devil Survivor 2. It's made by the old Langrisser team(now in Atlus) and handle the route split very well I recommend it. Especially since it's in the 3DS

On topic I hope "enemy faction joins" only happen in the third route OR the third route is you going independant because having "version exclusive characters" and destroying the other faction would make a much better two version game experience. At least on the Nohr side where you are presumably kind of beligerant instead of a peace loving hipster

[Kiddo]

How was the Chaos path ''dumb and pointless''? You can play Erwin in a way that joining Boser is fitting.

Part of the reason I felt that way about Chaos path is because there was absolutely no way it felt like it fit naturally, actually. Erwin has general problems with how his whole characterization appears to change between paths, but it's most glaring in this one where he's basically just evil for evil's sake for no danged good reason - but perhaps even worse, he's also being the lackey of the big bad of the game for no real good reason. In comparison the Empire and Independent paths have interesting philosophical points, and reveal some things about the nature of the world that paint the Light Path as less heroic.

Chaos path's plotline felt like one that should've more been a penalty for doing something wrong gameplay-wise than a conscious "morality choice". At the least, if I wanted to be evil, I would've prefered an "evil independent" path where I'd be more like a Starscream than... whatever Erwin is in that path.

(As for the rest of the discussion - I'm not gonna make any rash judgements on how FEif's plot is yet. If the comparisons to Der Langrisser would be really that unwarranted, we'll find out when the game's out.)

[feplus]

Der Langrisser's chaos path isn't "evil."

Recall that the chaos path and the independent path start out at the same point: you distrust the righteousness of the Crusaders of Light and you distrust the overbearing imperialism of the Empire. You decide to take the holy sword for yourself. At that point, a team of demons- led by Boser- shows up to assist you. Turns out not all demons are mindless, evil beings. Humans have treated them with contempt and violence. Their imprisonment might well have been unjust. Ceding power to demons might be a wise idea if you've lost faith in humanity.

And that's what the chaos path boils down to: sympathizing with demons over humans. It's a misanthropic path, but it's not "evil." Really similar to Zephiel's mindset, actually.

[NeonZ]

Based on what we know, If is a "choice" (and, at least for some players, not even an in-game choice) between bloodline and loyalty. You either roll with the evil invading empire because of family, or you roll with the pacifist do-gooder Nippons because of loyalty. Given the "choice" happens as early as Chapter 6, it's improbable the player will learn much about the motivations of your invader buddies, so the only reason you'd pick them besides bloodline is the thrill of playing as the antagonist.

We know only one choice, but in general they've said that they designed this game around the idea of the player avatar being the main character and what that allows, and have mentioned choices changing battles and characters. So, i don't think that kingdom choice will be the only one.

Also, we know that the Noir campaign involves internal conflicts within the kingdom and an attempt to reform, not just crushing Hoshido. They won't make an entire version of the story just about playing for the "evil" side.

Edited April 14, 2015 by NeonZ