FE2/FE3/Jugdral Reverse Recruitment?

[Yojinbo]

Aless and Leen make Sigurd and Dew though if we use my pairing option

I'm not really sure if I understand "your" option. At least I'm not seeing any sort of consistent pattern behind it.

Altenna x Johalva being a fixed pairing is a thing because Altenna replaces Sigurd and Johalva replaces Deidre. Altenna will have major Noba and the Gae Bold will replace the Tyrfing. Celice will be their child and inherit major Noba, gets the Gae Bolg in Ch.10 from the bishop and will also inherit minor neir from Johalva.

Aless x Leen being a fixed pairing is also a thing because it's canon and because they replace the fixed Cuan + Ethlin pairing. Aless can pass down major Hezul and the mistoltin to Ethlin and Cuan could be a Social Knight/Paladin so he can actually inherit weapons from Leen.

For all the other pairing options we still haven't actually reached a consensus yet. It should be consistent and allow for a lot of pairings though. I'll see if I can find something.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Yojinbo

[General Horace]

He also gets minor baldo from Altenna, so good.

Even though his growths are significantly better in everywhere but skill, luck, magic and res, Celice would be significantly worse. Gae Bolg and no res is awful.

[Yojinbo]

Yeah Celice would totally fail at taking on Alvis for example. That's what Mistoltin!Ethlin with Leen and Aless as her parents is there for ;P

I think as far as pairings are concerned I think every unit who is a mother in vanilla FE4 should have her role taken by her daughter. So Tinny is Tiltyu, Nanna is Lachesis, Patty is Briggid, Fee is Fury, Lakche is Aira and Lana is Aideen in RR. Their RR children would simply be the replacements of their original mothers' actual kids:

* Tinny replaces Lex, assumes Tiltyus role and is the mother of Holyn [replaces Arthur] and Lex [replaces Tinny].

* Nanna replaces Midir, assumes Lachesis' role and is the mother of Sylvia [replaces Delmud] and Midir [replaces Nanna].

* Patty replaces Aideen, assumes Briggid's role and is the mother of Azel [replaces Faval] and Aideen [replaces Patty].

* Fee replaces Lachesis, assumes Fury's role and is the mother of Ardan [replaces Sety] and Lachesis [replaces Fee].

* Lakche replaces Claude, assumes Aira's role and is the mother of Tiltyu [replaces Skasaha] and Claude [replaces Lakche].

* Lana replaces Briggid, assumes Aideen's role and is the mother of Levin [replaces Lester] and Briggid [replaces Lana].

Altenna and Leen would be fixed pairings with Johalva and Aless respectively. Since all these characters are fixed and have no substitute units it would work out perfectly ... if it can be programmed that way of course.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Yojinbo

[momogeek2141]

See basically my version is basically the same as the vanilla pairings except with replacements. Like, Patty replaces Aideen. Aideen's children are Lana and Lester. Likewise, Patty's children are their replacements: Briggid and Levin. That's what's supposed to be "consistent" it's just that many pairings are coincidental with yours. The male replacements of mothers will be "mothers" in theory but fathers when it comes to love growths. Shanan replaces Ayra, and is father to Claud and Tiltyu, but will marry a female character. Either case will be complicated to program, but I feel like mine will just be a bunch of find/replace. Events are still wtf.

Also, I think that gen 1 growths should be nerfed from the children. Celice will still suck balls against Alvis but that's what Sigurd's for! Plus, Celice is immune to basically every other enemy with that wtf hp and def. (It's better than Sedgar!)

5@Dragon Master

HP 35 STR 17 MAG 3 SKL 14 SPD 13 LCK 10 17 Def 0 Res

Now this is crap my pants insane

she also has a benefit of having 1 more leadership star then sigurd

Courtesy of TTPK_TAL to show how much she needs to be nerfed, lol. This is better than fricking Sigurd!

Edited April 11, 2015 by momogeek2141

[Caliban of Sycorax]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Celice fixed? Like, no matter what you do when you hack FE4, he'll always have Major Baldo/Minor Narga? Or have I just been out of the game that long? I recall Celice and Julia always having the same Holy Blood/Growths/etc. while the other kids would, in fact, be affected. I believe Leaf/Altenna may be the same, but I'm not 100 per cent sure on that one.

[BBM]

how would holy weapon events work?

like, would you have Sety go in and get Holsety or would Levin's replacement do it and then Sety would have to buy it for 50K?

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Can you even sell Holy Weapons in the first place? So even if Levin's replacement went in and got Holsety, he/she wouldn't be able to sell it. Unless the rules change when said person doesn't have the Holy Blood or capability of using it.

[momogeek2141]

Yeah a lot of things are a mess including events. Sety would probably get Holsety, Patty talks to Faval for Ichival, Altenna gets the Gae Bolg from Vylon, Aless gets Mistoltin from Leen in ch 3. I heard somewhere that Celice is fixed or just really hard to change, but there might be some absurdly good FE4 hacker (SHIN) that may be able to pull it off.

[General Horace]

how would holy weapon events work?

like, would you have Sety go in and get Holsety or would Levin's replacement do it and then Sety would have to buy it for 50K?

You could just have Sety take Levin's place in the character data and he'd get Holsety. Doing stuff like the chapter 10 bishop giving Celice the Gae Bolg would be significantly harder.

[Yojinbo]

A lot of things would be messy. You probably can't even do a 100% consistent reverse of recruitments. Oifaye replaces Fury and has to cross the moutains on the way from Agusty to Evans on a flying horse with his pegasus knight squad. Julia being Beowulf's replacement would pop up as part of Voltz' squad and take forever to recruit because she'll lag behind with her 5 mov. And Lana would have to run away / survive an armada of axe/bow pirates being Briggid's substitute - I'm not sure if she's capable of surviving that even in theory. So it'd probably make more sense to swap a couple of things. Hannibal should replace Ardan so he can pick up the Pursuit Ring, Oifaye and Fee should switch so Fee can take Fury's place and actually fly over the mountains [whereas Oifaye guards Nodion castle] and Julia should not be in Voltz squad - if she swaps positions with Delmud it'd work out.

A lot of convos that you need to obtain specific/personal items would have to be changed. Nanna has to pick up Return and the Light Sword instead of Ethlin even though she's not her replacement. Leaf would give Patty the Warp Staff which doesn't make a lot of sense. Tinny would pick up the Hero Axe, Leaf would give Oifaye the Thief Sword and Delmud would have a lover conversation with Oifaye that gives him +2 str, +2 def and +1 skl. Altenna being able to fly could also cause the game to glitch in Ch.1 and Ch.2 by flying into areas that are not accessible in Vanilla FE4. She might just be able to skip all of Ch.1 by flying straight to Verdane castle and seize it. There's a lot of things that would have to be newly arranged.

I've also made a google spreadsheet to show what I'm having in mind regarding the characters:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaxLD1TkIPmdQt2dsrqIYJfJC8jIr3dlwFIq8aD8Vhs

Hannibal will probably need some tweaking to be at least viable as a father. I think adding Elite to his natural Ambush and Continue skills could help him big time. What do you guys think?

[Refa]

I don't see what the point of balancing it is. Ruins the purpose of Reverse Recruitment anyways.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Refa

[momogeek2141]

Yeah I think we should just leave the recruitment order alone, because that ruins the point of RR. Julia will get to you eventually, Oifey can be recruit during Agusty instead, Lana is already promoted and as such can have a weapon. We can also give her prayer or pursuit or something to help her out.

Can Altenna actually seize Verdane from the start? Isn't there a certain region for each castle that's inaccessible until you seize the previous one? But there is a glitch that allows her to skip Johalva because of flying, so then gen 2 Celice will be pretty f*cked up.

[Jedi]

I don't see what the point of balancing it is. Ruins the purpose of Reverse Recruitment anyways.

Pretty much this, the pure ridiculousness is the appeal. Like we had convoy Zeiss for crying out loud lol

[Shin]

You could just have Sety take Levin's place in the character data and he'd get Holsety. Doing stuff like the chapter 10 bishop giving Celice the Gae Bolg would be significantly harder.

Truth be told, I could probably sort that out, it's not terribly hard if you know what you're doing. Celice is a bit of a pickle, but it's just a matter of finding and changing his data in a hex editor. Items aren't a big deal either, since the game gives each item a unique slot - so you'd just need to change a few things in Nightmare.

[Ansem]

or maybe there does not need to be intergeneration randomization? for example, aideen would be sylvia, and vice verse, and instead of getting lester and lana in c6, you'd get corple and leen.

[Zasplach]

or maybe there does not need to be intergeneration randomization? for example, aideen would be sylvia, and vice verse, and instead of getting lester and lana in c6, you'd get corple and leen.

Pretty much this makes sense to me. Keep the 2 generations separate, but flip the order of the mothers in the first gen and have there kids show up when the original mother's children appeared. I could also see switching the men in the 1st gen too, just to change who is super useful, that may be pushing it.

And if we're talking about changing the Lord, I remember reading somewhere, no idea first hand, that only Jr. Lords and Great Lords could capture castles, so the Lord not being that class would probably break the game.

[Psych]

There is a way to fudge your great lord class, but then it means your Gen 1 Lord and Gen 2 Lord must be the same class is the only problem. Which I why I'd still say Corple/Claude works better as the lord than Altenna.

You can edit the Lord/Lord Knight map sprite and battle sprites to be identical to another class, like say Priest, and then the only way you could tell it's different is due to the name since i don't know how to edit those.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Psych

[Yojinbo]

or maybe there does not need to be intergeneration randomization? for example, aideen would be sylvia, and vice verse, and instead of getting lester and lana in c6, you'd get corple and leen.

Not chaotic enough!

[Baldrick]

You want it chaotic, huh? How about this then?

I was playing around and it turns out the game freaks the fuck out if you try and change Ardan's character. Something to do with his being on a castle, perhaps. It might work out for the best anyway, since there's 49 playable characters with the Joha brothers and an even number would be best to ensure every character gets swapped.

The game always crashes when a certain enemy moves in turn 1 EP, so it had to be reverted.

[momogeek2141]

That's great! Pokemon Blue memories!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XW0alwAqzEkOFq-W-YuLzJkJS1POIbQgd74JaMYAzmM/edit#gid=0

TTPK_Tal came up with the stats of each character with the following assumed pairings:

AideenxJamka

HolynxAyra

Lach triangle

ClaudxSylvia

LevinxFury

AzelxTiltyu

MidirxBriggid.

Make of this as you will.

[General Horace]

You want it chaotic, huh? How about this then?

I was playing around and it turns out the game freaks the fuck out if you try and change Ardan's character. Something to do with his being on a castle, perhaps. It might work out for the best anyway, since there's 49 playable characters with the Joha brothers and an even number would be best to ensure every character gets swapped.

The game always crashes when a certain enemy moves in turn 1 EP, so it had to be reverted.

I could be misunderstanding you, but it worked for me no problem:

[Baldrick]

I've worked out that it's changing the Char no. that causes all the problems. Leaving it means the portrait is of the old unit, and I can't work out how to use the portrait editor (or the map sprite editor; it's only a problem with Sigurd because I'm editing his class instead than changing it so he can seize).

[momogeek2141]

Wait, were you able to do the intergeneration hacking? Like what Baldrick did?

[Ansem]

@ seizing problem: you can leave Altenna as a Lord Knight? they can use lances. most of the FEbin hacks did that, so we have LK!Alvis, Ayra, Cuan ect

[General Horace]

^ nah, you just edit the class, hence Tiltyu the "Lord Knight"

i'll look into what I did later more specifically, I made this a couple months ago so I can't really remember.

Edited April 15, 2015 by General Horace