Fire Emblem Awakening DLC Mafia [ Game Over ]

[Zkirsche]

Nah he's not getting turbo'd because there's scum on his wagon.

Baldrick is scum because:

a) he is pretty much ok with lynching anyone except you for reasons undisclosed. His paper stuff is all over the place (although in general it's basically wtf that he got lynched in the first place) almost like he just wanted to lynch someone but he didn't care who it was (unless if was you and Eury).

b) bad strawman interactions with FFM.

c) lurking (note how he didn't post!)

d) other reasons I am not going to disclose.

[Zkirsche]

I dunno I feel like Shinori is the most protown player in this game aside from me, he's just being set up for a mislynch.

[Baldrick]

shinori's paper vote came out of nowhere and he refused to explain it when I asked him (he literally ordered people to ISO paper and find him voteworthy rather than even link to a post he didn't like). The fact he was eager to consolidate after doing nothing all phase (I don't buy he forgot about it) makes me think he was trying to take advantage of LYUL and town being desperate for a lynch.

I think Snike is making too much of blitz mistaking LYUL for LYLO. In particular, saying "it's flawed because we're still here" is petty (for lack of a better word) unless you expected him to foresee it? Your excuse for missing phase end also bothers me, you've consistently shown annoyance about lack of activity but that's twice you've not shown up to phase end.

What is it with people saying "Baldrick is scum" for no reason? kirsche, take a deep breath and think through your posts instead of flailing around.

Current priority Shinori > Snike > blitz > kirsche (I don't think scum kirsche would react like that, or pretend to react like that)

[Baldrick]

Cut by kirsche. Naturally.

a) http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53264&view=findpost&p=3753912. The paper wagon wasn't great but shinori/snike had no momentum or enough people who were in favour of it, and I couldn't get people to lynch ghoulin. Do you think I should have let UL happen instead?

c) I'm trying to make a post, fuck off.

d) You say I'm scum for not disclosing stuff, explain?

[Zkirsche]

Baldrick think about possible mafia pairings and think about who they're going to try and mislynch.

If you were bothered by Shinori's way of pushing Paper why didn't you do anything late phase instead of now in lylo? Why was Blitz town last phase yet scummier than me now? Also if that post took you an hour to write as town then I dunno what to tell you I ISO'd all 7 people I needed to for associative reads in less time than it took you to make one post pushing the obvious Shinori mislynch and bussing Snike out of necessity.

[Zkirsche]

Shinori had Eury and Blitz, that's plenty of pressure.

[Blitz]

I dunno I feel like Shinori is the most protown player in this game aside from me, he's just being set up for a mislynch.

I can kinda see your points against Baldrick, to an extent, but I cannot see how Shinori could be slightly pro-town and not just just plain anti-town.

to make things worse, he still has 2 things to do,

ALL ABOARD THIS THING

And then lets be active tomorrow so that we don't do this.

This is basically a slap in the phase to the mods.

@bolded, well, yeah he promised content and never provided it, but I guess there is still time, but he is also guilty of committing the same crime as Snike into voting someone who he didn't think was scum. The way he said the bolded part clearly says so. Also, iirc, he has 0 reads

and the other thing he has to answer to is

Shinori's Rapier shot was really bad and since you are here, why did you feel the need to shoot Rapier on D2? I mean, why not save your shot and better yet, shoot someone you think is scum instead? (I mean Gaius/Makaze)

[Zkirsche]

That's not including Paperblade but he was absent like a chump.

[Zkirsche]

Blitz I don't think you're getting my point and that's that mafia are going to push hard for a mislynch today. Who here is the easiest lynch? It's quite obviously Shinori and considering there's no opposition at all to his lynch aside from me (and I know I'm town) it's quite clear FMPOV that he's probably not scum. The only play I can see happening here is that Snike is bussing him for super credit but I just find that idea preposterous and even if you think it's possible we should lynch Snike first.

[Zkirsche]

Anyway I'm out for like 8 hours peace.

[Baldrick]

There wasn't any point unless one of snike/paper/ghoulin showed up. Eury, blitz and I could not hammer shinori.

Blitz was null leaning town for effort, I think it's more likely he's scum faking effort than you're scum making those opening posts.

Bully for you. I type slowly and have to think about my posts. It's no good if I make bad posts and get mislynched.

[Blitz]

Blitz I don't think you're getting my point and that's that mafia are going to push hard for a mislynch today. Who here is the easiest lynch? It's quite obviously Shinori and considering there's no opposition at all to his lynch aside from me (and I know I'm town) it's quite clear FMPOV that he's probably not scum. The only play I can see happening here is that Snike is bussing him for super credit but I just find that idea preposterous and even if you think it's possible we should lynch Snike first.

I am all in for lynching Snike too, in almost the same scale as Shnori (maybe like 2% less, lol). I seriously think they are bussing buddies, because Snike just pulled out that Shinori read out of nowhere, when he was on your slot all day last day

me, Eury and Baldrik were all more or less gunning for Shinori, which would make sense for Shinori to be lynched. Like how you said scum would try an all-or-nothing mislynch this phase, they can also try for an all-or-nothing mislynch the next phase, by trying to be as confirmed town as possible this phase to enjoy an easier victory next phase, because in the case we lynch scum when scum are gunning for an all-or=nothing mislynch, it will only out them right away for an easy win for town the next phase, which I think is going on here.

[Baldrick]

I dunno I feel like Shinori is the most protown player in this game aside from me

What has Shinori done that is protown?

Anyway, I think we've confirmed at least one of Snike and Shinori is scum, otherwise the game would be over by now.

[Blitz]

What has Shinori done that is protown?

Anyway, I think we've confirmed at least one of Snike and Shinori is scum, otherwise the game would be over by now.

what Kirsche meant was, Shinori hasn't done anything Pro-town, but the fact that everyone wants him lynched from his PoV makes him think that Shinori is a scapegoat that scum wants lynched to win.

yeah, though, I think both are scum

[Baldrick]

@Blitz; you've probably played with scum!bizz more than I have, do you find he tends to bus hard? His vote on FFM looks telling, but the momentum of the wagon might have meant he decided he was beyond saving.

Anyway, that vote puts reasonable doubt in my mind about snike. Shinori said Shin had good points on FFM, then voted Shin for commenting too much. I believe it's a chainsaw defense.

[Blitz]

@Blitz; you've probably played with scum!bizz more than I have, do you find he tends to bus hard? His vote on FFM looks telling, but the momentum of the wagon might have meant he decided he was beyond saving.

Anyway, that vote puts reasonable doubt in my mind about snike. Shinori said Shin had good points on FFM, then voted Shin for commenting too much. I believe it's a chainsaw defense.

actually, I hate trying to understand Bizz's play because it has always and still does make 0 sense to me, lol. I actually thought of that too, but Snike's scum meta is more present this game (so, basically, I am scumreading slot based on Snike's play.) Also as a note, Snike never gives up and tends to use every method he has to his disposal to win. Basically this strengthens my bussing theory and the fact that he puts more effort into finding scum as town, which I think he lacked this game. Also, Snike's read progressions are easy to understand when he is town (well, not unless he outs them, like in AM/PM2, where LOC was a thing, unlike this game) so, I think he is playing to his scummeta.

also, regarding Bizz's play, see Politics mafia, I know it wasn't a serious game, but, Bizz and Paperblade both went after Manix like crazy and I was townreading both slots thanks to that, so, I am definitely not gonna give Bizz a pass for more or less taking out FFM.

the way Shinori just came in after Shin was really weird and I am not sure what a chainsaw defense is, but I am assuming that it means looking townie, trying to get votes off of scumbuddy by incriminating someone else. Also, I kinda agree with Eury that Shinori is playing a lot to his scummeta, with the disappearances and lack of content with only promises of content (yeah, I know, I was scumreading him in AM/PM 2 too, for the same reason, but there he didn't say one thing and then do another which gave off completely different results)

[Baldrick]

By chainsaw defense he was attacking Shin because he was voting for his buddy. Instead of directly defending his buddy.

Poly's vote on FFM was as good or better than Bizz's, and Ghoulin's was inconclusive. All things considered, I agree Shinori/Snike is the most likely scumteam.

[Blitz]

By chainsaw defense he was attacking Shin because he was voting for his buddy. Instead of directly defending his buddy.

Poly's vote on FFM was as good or better than Bizz's, and Ghoulin's was inconclusive. All things considered, I agree Shinori/Snike is the most likely scumteam.

ah, so that is what chainsaw defense means

well, I am still going more on meta and PoE than anything else (and currently reading the thread, so, will post if something bugs me)

[Snike]

Right so I actually went to sleep before any of those recent posts came up. Let me try and address those.

Read this even if you don't want to read the rest of the wall:

-Not removing my vote. The inb4turbo joke was a reference to my subpar scumreads this game, however I fully believe this is the right wagon. Consider this:

1) Shinori's ability use was to shoot a watcher, a town information role. Under the guise of saying 'oh the wagon probably won't be reversed in 17 hours'. This led to our first NL.

2) Scum went after shin the next night, instead of shinori, who we didn't know until yesterday only had one shot. They then went after eclipse, who was in arguably one of the scummiest slots and someone I was about to mount a case on.

3) To reiterate, we know that the town has a watcher, a tracker, a protective role, and a backup for the previous roles. We now know that there are 3 mafiosos total, and one of them was a goon. If we add a dayvig to town power roles, the game could be ended by town on D2 with no town deaths. Does that seem reasonable?

4) Everyone has been online since my vote. There has been no turbo. Excluding the mafia being jerks, there's reasonably two explanations for this:

A)Shinori is scum

B)I am scum pushing on Shinori. This and A are not mutually exclusive.

If you go with B, why would I put myself out to be lynched on LYLO by grabbing attention when I could wait for a slip and turbo? If we're buddies, why would I bother to bus Shinori when I could jump on a misvote and end the game with a turbo? The argument there is very weak, to understate it.

I personally believe A is the case, as I am town voting on him.

Optional reading (But you really should):

-Again reading Makaze off of last game. I would argue he isn't known for making traditionally townie moves. I switched to him to get a lynch going, after 2 phases of NLs. At some point the need for a mislynch overrides the town read of a claimed vanilla. WRT the slapfight, that was between myself and eclipse. I was irritated because I voted to correct votal bot error, but she went on it as my voting a secondary wagon (which I started) over the main lynch wagon. I already addressed the turbo.

-Nope. Though Baldrick might be scum, so 50/50 on that.

-HEY LOOK NO TURBO.

-OK, Blitz, I knew that scum had two players left because I asked about it yesterday. I specifically asked because 7 players is LYLO at a 4/3 setup, and it's a bit unreasonable to assume one scum because the only flipped mafioso was a goon. I said 4/2/1 because there was the chance of a survivor in the game, but I doubt it's a thing anymore if only because they haven't claimed for a joint win.

I didn't go after shinori or eury because of the Makaze thing + the fact that he didn't do anything. You don't get a free ride for inactivity/ being unhelpful, and while it's pretty clear that I haven't been playing well, I still stand by going after him.

I went after Shinori today because of the above argument + Kirsche just got in so I'll give him a little room.

Again, you're trying to give me crap for information I deduced from D5 update which is why I saw the previous thing as a smear. ;/

-No stop I'm not scum I'm town see my above argument.

I'd be alright with a Baldrick wagon, for those + 2 more things:

1.Gaius flipped, Strawman previously fished.

2.Baldrick loaded a question to me/Shinori about why we didn't switch votes when it should be pretty clear why when you read the thread.

However...

-No stop. Ignoring my above argument, if you look through shinori's Iso, he's been on Shin, (weird vibes -> dayvig) Rapier, Gaius, Makaze, Paperblade, and Baldrick. Aside from maybe literally the last one, he's been 100% wrong. Now while that isn't conclusive, it does make your comment about him being the most protown player look really silly.

Incidentally Shinori was also against lynching you yesterday.

I am not sure what to think of this, but safe to say it is not favorable.

-That's an interesting point Baldrick about the Shinori stuff. I'm not sure I completely am convinced by it, but I already have a related case so the point is moot.

I previously explained my point better above and again, he's assuming I slipped about numbers when you can deduce it from the 7/4 to lynch and not lylo situation. The second phase end miss was on me, because I was looking at rp stuff and completely forgot about the game. The first one isn't, as I was at work and couldn't respond. I believe I previously mentioned that.

-The Ghoulin wagon only needed 2 votes. It would've been easy enough to consolidate on. Kirsche's later on addresses shinori counterwagon.

-Dunno what there is to comment on on this post

-see previous remark on ghoulin wagon

-YES BLITZ JOIN THE SHINORI WAGON

More seriously, I can vote someone I don't believe to be scum in a ML situation. If not, should I just allow the universal loss to happen? I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have been compelling enough while eclipse was around to change the wagon. This is because I was semi-hard tunneling on her.

-Kirsche is hard defending shinori despite his previous actions. I already addressed the case on him above, so I'll refer everyone to that. However you're doing this super hard which combined with previous remarks makes me wonder whether or not you're scum.

-the three of you could've went ghoulin over paper, given the latter is usually more helpful on lylo.

-Hi blitz. I wouldn't say that I went off of kirsche 100% now that I'm doing semi play-by play, but I think shinori is more obvscum right now. Once again, I think putting myself out here to be criticized doesn't make sense instead of waiting for a misvote and jumping on that. Scum want to end this phase, instead of risking a bus into the next day since that is a gamble.

-Thank you baldrick.

-Blitz, you're 50/50 right there, in that shinori is scum. I am not.

-Chainsaw works to some extent for shinori, but again it's more of all the prior shot that makes the difference. I don't really like the term, though.

-I got scumread last game all game long with people who knew my old meta. I'd argue my meta has changed a bit since I last played before then. That being said, a few things I want to talk about related to that:

1) I feel like I give up pretty hard and get almost irrationally angry when I'm scum in a bad situation. I'm aware some of that has shown up between myself and eclipse previously, but I again thought she was smearing me and implying I had some sort of pr.

2) I was hyper wrong on my mancer + Terrador reads last game, and I'd argue it was my fault that they died. That's why I didn't hyper push eclipse or paperblade, despite how I felt I was read tunneling on the former, and scum reading based on relative inactivity the latter. This was because I had associative reads from both of them.

3)I'm not sure what you mean about easy to understand, but see above? I think my Shinori case is pretty clean cut.

4)The thing I'm not necessarily seeing from shinori, if we just talk plain meta, is no angersplosion. He did that in am/pm and I think that's somewhat of a meta towntell on him. My previous case is why I'm voting him.

-No I think poly was super inactive and semi-implied before NL 1 that he had a mayor-like role. Or that's how I read it when I subbed in, hence the mention of a rolecrumb here. I've already addressed the bussing idea in the must read case above.

-K.

tl;dr: Shinori is scum. I am not because bussing in first lylo to try and net a win in second lylo seems super dumb instead of encouraging a misvote, then turboing for the win. And Shinori hasn't been turboed. Kirsche and Baldrick look bad. I dislike Blitz but I think given the options he's just wrong, not scum.

Lunch Order: Shinori >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirsche > Baldrick

[Zkirsche]

Lol nope not covering all of that, need some idea of what you're responding to otherwise I can't converse. Not going to trawl through the thread. You didn't really address my points why Shinori weren't scum and just went "man he thinks Shinori might be townie he must be scum!".

I guess most "probtown" is clearer than "protown" but I meant the towniest in the thread.

[Zkirsche]

Also we don't really know how strong the remaining mafia are. Your rolespec point is your best.

[Zkirsche]

I meant to put "but I can see where you're coming from" at the end of that first sentence. GG.

[Snike]

He has been basically 100% wrong on his reads, and he shot a power role claim + Inactivity. You'd have to explain how he's the towniest member in the thread in order for me to argue against your points.

I mean the easiest to ML argument is weird, because you could also argue easiest to ML is between the vanilla claims because there are way too many of them.

As a note, I will not be around tonight once again, as I have a shift. Same for tomorrow night. You have been warned.

[Zkirsche]

This is my reasoning.

Blitz I don't think you're getting my point and that's that mafia are going to push hard for a mislynch today. Who here is the easiest lynch? It's quite obviously Shinori and considering there's no opposition at all to his lynch aside from me (and I know I'm town) it's quite clear FMPOV that he's probably not scum. The only play I can see happening here is that Snike is bussing him for super credit but I just find that idea preposterous and even if you think it's possible we should lynch Snike first.

[Zkirsche]

What?

I meant who has the worst public opinion held and who is least likely to defend themselves well wrt being an easy ML.