Return of Casual

[Thane]

By removing the broken features we can again put emphasis on strategy over grinding, brain over brawn, etc. Like it once was. Agreed that objectives and challenges would be nice all around, so it just becomes a question on how open everyone is to them upon implementation. A lot of veterans are sold on the mechanics, but the newcomers are a bit more untested waters. Example: Pair-Up has been rather contested by both sides with some seeing it as a great mechanic to others viewing it as either game breaking or a poor imitation of rescue. IMO rescue should be a second option for those who needs its benefits without going full on pair up.

When you choose classic mode, what exactly differs so radically from older Fire Emblem titles that its optional inclusion ruins the gaming experience for you? I'm afaid I'm going to ask for something a bit more tangible to understand your point.

See, that's an argument I can understand. The pair up system felt mandatory at times, and too overpowered with two Galeforce users, for instance. However, it seems as if they're going to adjust this for the next game, so I'm not too worried.

[Jagged Jagen]

Did anybody have that Casual vs. Classic mode debate when FE12 came out...? At this point, Casual mode is nothing new and should be something people can expect. And it's an OPTION -- you don't have to play the goddamn game in Casual mode if you don't want to, just as how players can choose not to play in Classic mode since they don't want to.

... You can very well just beat the game in the hardest difficulty in Classic mode just for the bragging rights if anything. Beating Fire Emblem Awakening in Lunatic Classic unlocks Lunatic+ Classic (and Casual).

FE12 wasn't localized,so it wasn't a truly fair argument.

Casual mode doesn't excuse the other attempts to streamline the game that ended up broken

Edited April 23, 2015 by DeoGame

[Roflolxp54]

Eh? Grinding has been abuseable since at least FE6 with the Arena (it existed in 4 but wasn't as abuseable since you had a set amount of enemies). I haven't played 11 or 12 so I can't speak for them, but every non-remake since 6 has had some sort of abuseable grinding mechanic.

Both FE11 and FE12 have arenas and they can be abused, especially since the maps are basically all seizure missions.

[Jagged Jagen]

Eh? Grinding has been abuseable since at least FE6 with the Arena (it existed in 4 but wasn't as abuseable since you had a set amount of enemies). I haven't played 11 or 12 so I can't speak for them, but every non-remake since 6 has had some sort of abuseable grinding mechanic. RD was the only one where it wasn't as noticeable since BEXP could only get you 3 stat ups. Although in late game situations that method of levelling can get pretty broken too.

I will agree that Awakening was somewhat based on having to grind so if they could curtail that which they appear to be doing with the Nohr route. Perhaps there could be some penalties for letting units die in Casual? I know they lost any support points gained in a chapter but I don't think they lost any EXP gained or statups, so maybe if a unit "dies" they forfeit all those gains?

I like the idea of consequences for Casual death, like skill loss when thrown in jail in Skyrim. Grinding has been abuseable since FE6 and will confirm it's in 11, but never to the level of Awakening. Also, the Arena did cost money and the enemies were usually a little tougher. People abused it by working around it, not as intended. Awakening is full on grinding is cool, do it now *cough* EXPonential Growth

Edited April 23, 2015 by DeoGame

[Philranger]

I like the idea of consequences for Casual death, like skill loss when thrown in jail in Skyrim. Grinding has been abuseable since FE6 and will confirm it's in 11, but never to the level of Awakening. Also, the Arena did cost money and the enemies were usually a little tougher. People abused it by working around it, not as intended. Awakening is full on grinding is cool, do it now *cough* EXPonential Growth

But it's still optional. Especially EXPonential Growth.

I'm also not sure what you mean by not using the arena as intended. Other than grinding money and EXP, what other use does the arena have? Seems to me people used it exactly how the developers intended it to be used.

[Jagged Jagen]

But it's still optional. Especially EXPonential Growth.

I'm also not sure what you mean by not using the arena as intended. Other than grinding money and EXP, what other use does the arena have? Seems to me people used it exactly how the developers intended it to be used.

EXPonential Growth is almost necessary on higher difficulties due to the level design. But I digress.

Anyhow, I'll let this quote from fireemblem.wikia.com explain what I mean about Arenas. Again, this is from the Fire Emblem wiki, this is not my own argument nor do I endorse Arena Abuse.

"Some people have taken to the hobby of "Arena Abuse", one of the most commonly used Sources of Infinite Experience To Arena Abuse, the player sends their units in the arena constantly until they are weak, so then they can get healed by the Priest using a Heal Staff. If the player did not bring a user who can use staves, then a Vulnerary will work, but not as well. The player constantly heals the fighter up until the Heal staff breaks. Usually, all levels with an Arena have a Shop on the same map. The player takes advantage of this and buys as many Heal (or Mend, if the Heal staff is not sold there) staves as he or she can. Then the abuser repeats the process Since you get money from frequently winning at arenas, and that arena weapons are not the weapons you are equipped with, one can keep doing this until all units are level 20 and the abuser has enormous amounts of gold earned from the arenas. The process of arena abusing, without losing any units, is rather difficult and tedious.An "Arena Gauntlet" is when the player constantly uses the arena without healing and not using some form of "random number generator" abuse. The option that allow players to go into another match in Shadow Dragon makes it easier to do an "Arena Gauntlet" in one turn, somewhat redeeming turncount, although this can be risky."

Edited April 23, 2015 by DeoGame

[NekoKnight]

Oh boy, it was only a matter of time before the "stop liking what I don't like" crowd showed up. As someone who has never played on casual and doesn't want grinding to be a big part of the game (never did arenas either) I can comfortably say that optional modes don't affect my enjoyment of the game.

[Philranger]

EXPonential Growth is almost neccessary on higher difficulties due to the level designl. But I digress.

Anyhow, I'll let this quote from fireemblem.wikia.com explain what I mean about Arenas.

"Arena Abuse

Some people have taken to the hobby of "Arena Abuse", one of the most commonly used Sources of Infinite Experience To Arena Abuse, the player sends their units in the arena constantly until they are weak, so then they can get healed by the Priest using a Heal Staff. If the player did not bring a user who can use staves, then a Vulnerary will work, but not as well. The player constantly heals the fighter up until the Heal staff breaks. Usually, all levels with an Arena have a Shop on the same map. The player takes advantage of this and buys as many Heal (or Mend, if the Heal staff is not sold there) staves as he or she can. Then the abuser repeats the process.

Since you get money from frequently winning at arenas, and that arena weapons are not the weapons you are equipped with, one can keep doing this until all units are level 20 and the abuser has enormous amounts of gold earned from the arenas. The process of arena abusing, without losing any units, is rather difficult and tedious.

An "Arena Gauntlet" is when the player constantly uses the arena without healing and not using some form of "random number generator" abuse. The option that allow players to go into another match in Shadow Dragon makes it easier to do an "Arena Gauntlet" in one turn, somewhat redeeming turncount, although this can be risky.

However, such method can destroy the tactics ranking in Fire Emblem: Binding Blade and Fire Emblem: Rekka No Ken, so such abuse is not advised on ranked runs."

I understand what Arena Abuse is. What I don't understand is how you think that was not their intended purpose?

Also I've already stated that Awakening is somewhat based around the grind. I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is the notion that EXPonential Growth is anything more than optional. There are other methods to grind. Reeking Boxes come to mind or Spotpass teams. EXPonential Growth happens to be much more efficient than those other methods, but that's why you have to pay extra for it.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Philranger

[Jagged Jagen]

I understand what Arena Abuse is. What I don't understand is how you think that was not their intended purpose?

They actively discourage it in Rekka and it provides a big risk that can cause more damage in the long run. Whether they didn't intend it or they intended it but punished the user for doing it, it's admittedly a stark contrast to EXPonential Growth and the Streetpass Teams. And while Reeking Boxes, Etc. certainly are optional, its the Streetpass teams that can be harmful to tactical thinking. Many people criticize the fact that I don't grind excessively and flip out over my lower stats on the streetpass team (Lower being relative, they all have a good game under them). Again, it's completely optional but the issue is the growing stigma and aftermath of these optional inclusions. It is what it is. Ultimately, I feel Awakening is the worst at actively encouraging grinding, but will stand by the fact that it was in the older games, whether fully intentionally or not.

Edited April 23, 2015 by DeoGame

[omega zero]

EXPonential Growth is almost necessary on higher difficulties due to the level design. But I digress.

It's not. I've completed FEA Lunatic without grinding. Go look at the FEA subforum, players have also completed Lunatic+ without grinding and without excessive reliance on resets.

I mean, I'm sure people will agree that the level design is problematic in some cases, but the fact remains that Lunatic and Lunatic+ can be cleared without grinding at all.

Edit: The above two difficulties can be completed without abusing Nosferatu tank MU in addition to no grind.

Edited April 23, 2015 by omega zero

[Philranger]

So you're not upset about gridning per se. You're upset that there's no reward for not grinding.

[Jagged Jagen]

So you're not upset about gridning per se. You're upset that there's no reward for not grinding.

That and more so that there are little to no consequences to grinding in Awakening.

[Eveangaline]

If it comes back I doubt it's version exclusive, since there's versions where you'd be picking your difficulty before you pick which side you're on.

I don't really care if it comes back. So long as it's optional and I get the chance for permadeath then live and let live, people play at the difficulty they want.

[Tryhard]

Casuals? In my series? I think not.

I don't really care??

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i really don't care cause i won't be playing on casual anyways, it can return or not, idgaf

[Awakener_]

That and more so that there are little to no consequences to grinding in Awakening.

Ah yes, players must be punished for grinding using a DLC map that they brought with real money.

[X-Naut]

Will it return? Most likely.

Will I use it? Maybe once in a while, but not often.

Will I be mad if it returns? No.

[Nyanko]

I don't mind if Casual Mode comes back if it makes the game more accessible to some players. I won't be using it, though. I prefer to be challenged. I played through Awakening on normal/casual the first time because I heard a reviewer on Youtube say it was hard even on that level. I still can't understand how he came to that opinion...

[Jagged Jagen]

Ah yes, players must be punished for grinding using a DLC map that they brought with real money.

It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. Grinding can ruin the game.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. Grinding can ruin the game.

now here is where i'm mixed, this is very true, but at the same time, the dlc was literally better then the entire main story.

[Jagged Jagen]

now here is where i'm mixed, this is very true, but at the same time, the dlc was literally better then the entire main story.

I like the DLC for story, but don't like all the grinding ones.

[MoonlitSonata]

It's very likely that Casual mode will return, and from my perspective on development, it's rather difficult to make all camps of the fandom happy. If you balance the game to casual mode players who abuse risen encounters, it will be ruthless on those who play classic/no grinding. Awakening seemed to go for an easy-to-middle difficulty level, and that ended up with the game's difficulty on Normal and Hard being broken in two. Meanwhile Lunatic and Lunatic+ were somewhat luck based in that sometimes you would get nigh impossible enemy compositions. Jumping from Hard/Classic to Lunatic/Casual I personally found the difficulty curve to be a bit steep for my own personal enjoyment.

I love playing the older FEs in classic mode, but I also enjoy sitting back and enjoying a bit of Awakening from time to time. To me, the older FEs are like cooking my own meal: time consuming and enjoyable, with a bit of skill that needs to be nourished to get the most enjoyment out of it all. Meanwhile Awakening is like getting the same meal at a restaurant: maybe not quite like what I make at home, but relatively easy and rewarding in that I don't have to worry about the things that might go wrong in preparing my own meal.

I swear that cooking analogy was going somewhere... hopefully someone gets my drift.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i'd say awakening is more like fast food, alot of difference places to go too, can access it whenever ya want basically, but the food can be very samey with minor changes

with that said i have fast food once a week

Edited April 23, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[shadowofchaos]

It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. Grinding can ruin the game.

Ah yes, the whole "ruining the game" from your definition again.

People have fun with grinding.

Those can be casuals.

Or those people that have been veterans for years.

Excuse you, I happened to enjoy casual mode.

I enjoy grinding and screwing around with the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5_4I3sBh4o

I also enjoy playing no-grind Lunatic.

And the game was DESIGNED to be playable, and punished grinding without purchasing DLC.

There are reasons that have been beaten to death in other threads that are legitimate for disliking the option.

But I FUCKING hate people who suggest taking away an optional part of the game, hiding behind "concern for the series", but only are just upset because they can't feel special anymore for doing it the way "veterans" did.

Your motivation is not legitimate concern for the series being ruined.

There have been other veterans that have shown that, disliked the change, and yet still accept the change.

You don't like the casuals.

That's all.

[Ownagepuffs]

EXPonential Growth is almost necessary on higher difficulties due to the level design. But I digress.

Stop posting. Just stop. You've nuked your credibility with this incredibly stupid statement.

Edit: also, casual's fine. Fuck if I care that someone else doesn't like perma death. Most of the anti-casual mode statements are selfish. Preserve the spirit of the series? Please.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Ownagepuffs