Famitsu 14th May: Phoenix Mode and No More Weapon Uses

[Bovinian]

I thought of a possible use for Phoenix mode that is vaguely justified. PLEASE don't get me wrong - as far as full playthroughs are concerned, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

So, let's say you were playing through the Nohr campaign, and towards the end of the game, you had a unit you hadn't used for whatever reason, and you wanted to try that unit (lets call him John for the sake of argument). You copy the save file, and change the copy to phoenix mode. You then try out the unit really easily, as you can grind him up to a decent level in one fight as HE CAN'T DIE!!! In the Nohr campaign testing characters would be nearly impossible as there is limited experience. Phoenix mode is likely not intended for full playthroughs, but to allow people to easily test things in the Nohr campaign. This WOULD make sense, as casual mode doesn't allow you to do this in only one fight, as the character will likely drop dead after a single hit, whereas phoenix mode prevents you ruining the story in a test fight.

Now I don't doubt that this is going to get shot to bits, but I thought I'd have my say, as no-one else seems to have thought of this. Also, I don't want to start talking to much about the weapon durability - could be good or bad depending on how they handled it. Phoenix mode is the same as casual for me - cool for newcomers, and the vets can just leave it alone.

If the devs intended it to be a training mode of sorts, as it seems like you're implying, they would have introduced it as such and probably designed it in the form of individual chapter simulations. Which actually does sound kind of interesting as an unlockable sort of thing.

[Thor Odinson]

tbh I only even used Fred on turn 1 to insta-delete the Merc since my MU always has more than 10 str (hello +str -res)

then MUx Fred (with MU front) can pretty reliably take out just about anyone else tbh between forts and kiting Fred doesn't even see the Hammer dude because he's not in front when Hammer dude comes into range

so ???

dying on Lunatic to Hammerguy is your own fault bruh

also >complaining about oh no having to think a little harder on a mode Lunatic

okay

Edited May 12, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Karasz]

Phoenix mode...this could be interesting. If it's like Casual or Classic, and could be combined with any difficulty, it might make modes like Lunatic and Lunatic+ a bit more accessible for newer players to the series who might be too afraid or nervous to take up the challenge (yes, that's a thing). Not only could it help with the Nohr path, but it could also give newer players an inkling that it's okay to fail. Casual mode gave newer players to the series more incentive to jump right in with Awakening, and Phoenix mode creates even more accessibility. I may not try it, but who knows, it could be just what the series needs to attract more people.

Weapon durability being removed is also an interesting thing. I think Tangerine summed up my thoughts best. And considering the Nohr path is going to be heavy on limited resources, the focus on keeping your allies stocked with weapons / staves is replaced with getting them better weapons / staves as time goes on. On the other hand, this does seem to oversimplify the weapon triangle and the need to strategize with weapons, similar to what Red Fox said. Turning it into a game of "who has the stronger weapon" or "who can attack twice" seems to dump on the complexity of the system, in a way. Would they have replaced these with the additions of katanas, naginatas, kanabos, and talismans to the game, in an effort to give more "depth" to the fighting system by adding more to the triangles?

Overall, there are elements shown for both weapon durability removal and Phoenix Mode that seem both interesting and disturbing, but whether or not they play out well enough will remain to be seen when the game releases later this year.

[Eveangaline]

No weapon usage?

huuuh..that's gonna take a lot of getting used to. My hoarding ways and obsessive buying of equipment because WHAT IF I RUN OUT is gonna haunt me through these games. I'm going to have 400 unused iron swords and forget that i don't need all the surplus.

[Bovinian]

Phoenix mode...this could be interesting. If it's like Casual or Classic, and could be combined with any difficulty, it might make modes like Lunatic and Lunatic+ a bit more accessible for newer players to the series who might be too afraid or nervous to take up the challenge (yes, that's a thing). Not only could it help with the Nohr path, but it could also give newer players an inkling that it's okay to fail. Casual mode gave newer players to the series more incentive to jump right in with Awakening, and Phoenix mode creates even more accessibility. I may not try it, but who knows, it could be just what the series needs to attract more people.

For newer players who have beaten the easier modes and want to be eased into the more difficult ones...okay. For experienced players who want to cheese the game as quickly as possible to unlock NG+ content or experiment with the game's mechanics...okay. But something I legitimately do not understand is how the addition of Phoenix Mode is expected to bring in a significant amount of new fans. If the option to play without permadeath wasn't enough to bring them in, then are they suddenly going to cave now that it's literally impossible to die? What about this new mode will make this game any more appealing to newcomers than Awakening was?

EDIT: Note that the point of this post is not to complain about the inclusion of an optional mode, but whether the argument that this mode will actually make the player base grow is well-founded.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Bovinian

[Tamanoir]

I thought the weapons you could buy would be limited.

You know, like the preferred weapons in FE11/12, or FE4 shops. there's a limited number of weapon you can get, including your starting ones.

Being able to buy infinite weapons wouldn't make lots of sense.

For newer players who have beaten the easier modes and want to be eased into the more difficult ones...okay. For experienced players who want to cheese the game as quickly as possible to unlock NG+ content or experiment with the game's mechanics...okay. But something I legitimately do not understand is how the addition of Phoenix Mode is expected to bring in a significant amount of new fans. If the option to play without permadeath wasn't enough to bring them in, then are they suddenly going to cave now that it's literally impossible to die? What about this new mode will make this game any more appealing to newcomers than Awakening was?

I think it would be to ease Hoshido players to try Nohr. They are hyping the difficulty for the veterans, but they also wants the newcommers to try both.

That's how I saw it at last.

[Ownagepuffs]

Basically, what reasoning sustains Casual Mode is fine but Phoenix Mode isn't? Obviously the latter is more extreme, but if the objection against it is the same as my own against Casual Mode, then that would indicate that you would side against Casual Mode on principle, but pragmatically accept it. Which I was not the impression I got from many people.

More or less.

Grr, as much as I hate to admit it, Kyle Hebert would be a good fit since Marx looks close in age to Frederick who Hebert voiced in Awakening. I'd want to hear Hebert do his stuff again in Hoshido though. But he wouldn't be a good fit for anyone there!

I think either Travis Willingham (he was Lon'qu) or Liam O'Brien (Inigo) should do Ryouma. :D The latter would need to go a bit deeper though, as Ryouma looks older than Inigo.

This entire post is spot on. Kyle will prob return for Marx since they are so similar and I could imagine Travis using his Gaius voice from Tales of Xillia on Ryo. Liam would make me hnng so hard as Ryo.

[Asoleos]

Clearly Phoenix mode is a complicated tie in with the Angel Beats visual novel coming out soon. Crossover incoming!

But seriously I have no opinion on it as of right now, depending on execution of the mechanic it could be good or it could be bad. I will wait and see.

In regards to no weapon use, unsure of that it they make it so that getting new weapons is incredibly difficult that would explain the mechanic.

I'm more interested in all the new info on characters and their classes. Expanded Avatar creation will be nice and we know names and voice actors as well as classes. So yay.

[Florete]

As for weapon durability, that was never really a factor in the recent installments of the series outside of particularly low use or low availability weapons (gotta stock up on killers cause they aren't in a shop again for a while!). All games gave you more than enough money to never run out of strong weapons, the only thing it ever really did was discourage you from using your unique weapons too much. I very much doubt that they are going to leave everything the same and not rebalance weapons and weapon acquisition now that they've made durability a non-factor. It has the potential to be a much more interesting resource management system than what we had.

This is actually a very good point I hadn't thought of.

Due to map shopping in Sacred Stones and Awakening, and due to the way shops worked in Radiant Dawn (and somewhat in Path of Radiance), weapon durability didn't matter a whole lot anyway in those games, because any weapon you've bought once you can easily buy again, and money has never been extremely tight.

So long as the system is implemented well, I will probably be fine with it.

[Suichimo]

I'm not upset about Phoenix mode existing since I'm not forced to use it. I don't see the point in getting mad over more options being there for people who want to play the game but suck at it. Unbreakable weapons is kinda dumb, though (unless it's some kind of toggle. Like I said about Phoenix Mode, I wouldn't be upset about the option existing if I wasn't forced to use it). It removes strategy, the reason to use weapons that are weaker than your best ones (unless weapon weight comes back), and the purpose of having money late in the game (I can't tell you how many games give you a currency system and then about 2/3 of the way in, if not earlier, makes money pointless by making all the best stuff available for free either by story progression, completing sidequests, or random drops from enemies). I guess they saw how pretty much everyone was using Armsthrift in Awakening to essentially make weapons unbreakable, but that was kinda game breaking and should have been nerfed, not made into an innate feature of all weapons.

Jesus Christ this topic blew up fast.

Phoenix mode seems kinda dumb, but whatever, I won't be playing it.

Unlimited weapon usage I'm mixed on. On one hand, if it's balanced well, I could see it being okay, but with weapon weight removed and now this, it feels like all the strategy in picking the right weapon is gone and is now just "strongest available weapon every time." And how is shopping going to work if we only need one Iron Sword for everyone who can use one instead of needing to stock up?

Likely, you won't shop for weapons at all. Either a unit will come with one equipped or you'll find it in a map, from a chest or defeated enemy. This is how it worked in Fire Emblem Gaiden. In Gaiden, all units had a default piece of gear that added no damage to their attacks, just straight strength. You also got far fewer weapons than the other games. I don't believe FE2 even had currency, as far as shopping goes.

[Chiki]

Who cares about voice acting in Fire Emblem games? The voice actors literally just say a couple lines.

[astrophys]

Grr, as much as I hate to admit it, Kyle Hebert would be a good fit since Marx looks close in age to Frederick who Hebert voiced in Awakening. I'd want to hear Hebert do his stuff again in Hoshido though. But he wouldn't be a good fit for anyone there!

I think either Travis Willingham (he was Lon'qu) or Liam O'Brien (Inigo) should do Ryouma. :D The latter would need to go a bit deeper though, as Ryouma looks older than Inigo.

As for Liam, fear not, as he's done plenty of deep voiced characters before. To name just once example, consider the voice of Caius Ballad in the English language versions of Final Fantasy XIII-2 and Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII. Caius is voiced by Liam O'Brien.

[Florete]

Likely, you won't shop for weapons at all. Either a unit will come with one equipped or you'll find it in a map, from a chest or defeated enemy. This is how it worked in Fire Emblem Gaiden. In Gaiden, all units had a default piece of gear that added no damage to their attacks, just straight strength. You also got far fewer weapons than the other games. I don't believe FE2 even had currency, as far as shopping goes.

That sounds like a nice idea, but I don't think it will be the case myself. I think it's more likely that purchases will be limited (a shop only contains 2 Iron Swords, for example), and/or weapons will be comparatively more expensive than before.

[Aethin]

I'm not going to read the whole thread at the moment, but I think worth noting are names of characters Kamui is seen dual-system-inhg with: スズカゼ/Suzukaze (can't make out which character it is) and エルフィ/Erufi (the pink armor knight).

[Anacybele]

Who cares about voice acting in Fire Emblem games? The voice actors literally just say a couple lines.

Well, some of us don't want a case of the Pokemon anime's Porter. Gods, he sounded so freaking bland and bored. I mean, he makes Jason Adkins as Ike look really emotional (even I admit that on occasion, he sounded bored, though I still like him much better than whoever voiced Porter).

As for Liam, fear not, as he's done plenty of deep voiced characters before. To name just once example, consider the voice of Caius Ballad in the English language versions of Final Fantasy XIII-2 and Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII. Caius is voiced by Liam O'Brien.

Oh, that's cool. ^^

Edited May 12, 2015 by Anacybele

[Jagged Jagen]

I do wonder, with the unbreakable weapons and lower difficulty, what's the point of the Nohr game. I thought it was supposed to be more difficult with limited gold, but what's there to spend gold on? As someone who intends to major in business studies, breakable weapons was one of my favorite mechanics. It required strategic thinking, risk vs. reward and taught basic economics to gamers (mostly younger back when FE was rated E). That, among other reasons is why I'm going to miss breakable weapons and I fear that it goes against the Nohr principal. If the economic message behind Awakening was that you're royal and have DLC, then who cares, the Nohr path/Classic Games was more you're travelers hoping to keep things budgetary with some extra gold along the way. But with the lack of Weapon Durability, it seems Nohr is a bit more of a cop out. Shame.

[Philranger]

That sounds like a nice idea, but I don't think it will be the case myself. I think it's more likely that purchases will be limited (a shop only contains 2 Iron Swords, for example), and/or weapons will be comparatively more expensive than before.

That's what they did when they made TM's unlimited use in Pokemon. Hyper Beam (TM15) was $7,500 in Gen 3-4. When they made them unlimited use in Gen 5 cost jumped to $90,000.

[Leif]

This is actually a very good point I hadn't thought of.

Due to map shopping in Sacred Stones and Awakening, and due to the way shops worked in Radiant Dawn (and somewhat in Path of Radiance), weapon durability didn't matter a whole lot anyway in those games, because any weapon you've bought once you can easily buy again, and money has never been extremely tight.

So long as the system is implemented well, I will probably be fine with it.

^ This.

To be honest, my OCD hated the weapon uses. I didn't like having multiple copies of the same item loaded on my character.

I am really happy with this to be honest. Maybe they will have weapon weight come back, so we are less inclined to use a more powerful weapon? If there are weapon shops, perhaps they will only have limited quantities of weapons, like one iron sword and one steel axe available for one chapter? Maybe a character's starting weapon will factor in to their usefulness too.

Maybe gold will be used to hire units or to replenish that dual guard slot that we saw on the scans?

Edited May 12, 2015 by Leif

[Suichimo]

That sounds like a nice idea, but I don't think it will be the case myself. I think it's more likely that purchases will be limited (a shop only contains 2 Iron Swords, for example), and/or weapons will be comparatively more expensive than before.

Well, as far as speculation, FE2 is the only one comparable to this and I don't see any reason IS wouldn't use it as a base.

Assuming no shops, to match FE2, when they said that Nohr would have restricted access to resources, they likely meant healing items and other miscellany. Imagine if Master Seals are included in that and you were only able to promote 7 or 8 units on Nohr's path. Maybe the weapons themselves are considered resources and instead of getting 5 or 6 steel weapons of each type, you only get 1 or 2.

I do wonder, with the unbreakable weapons and lower difficulty, what's the point of the Nohr game. I thought it was supposed to be more difficult with limited gold, but what's there to spend gold on? As someone who intends to major in business studies, breakable weapons was one of my favorite mechanics. It required strategic thinking, risk vs. reward and taught basic economics to gamers (mostly younger back when FE was rated E). That, among other reasons is why I'm going to miss breakable weapons and I fear that it goes against the Nohr principal. If the economic message behind Awakening was that you're royal and have DLC, then who cares, the Nohr path/Classic Games was more you're travelers hoping to keep things budgetary with some extra gold along the way. But with the lack of Weapon Durability, it seems Nohr is a bit more of a cop out. Shame.

Eh, it just meant I didn't use the better weapons. I don't believe they ever said limited gold, just limited resources. Also, don't take infinite weapon usage as a bad thing. I think in FE2, there was a grand total of one steel sword that you had to make due with.

[Cysx]

I'm not going to read the whole thread at the moment, but I think worth noting are names of characters Kamui is seen dual-system-inhg with: スズカゼ/Suzukaze (can't make out which character it is) and エルフィ/Erufi (the pink armor knight).

Suzukaze is likely the green ninja. You can see him above Kamui.

Oh, Hey, an edit:

^ This.

To be honest, my OCD hated the weapon uses. I didn't like having multiple copies of the same item loaded on my character.

I am really happy with this to be honest. Maybe they will have weapon weight come back, so we are less inclined to use a more powerful weapon? If there are weapon shops, perhaps they will only have limited quantities of weapons, like one iron sword and one steel axe available for one chapter? Maybe a character's starting weapon will factor in to their usefulness too.

Maybe gold will be used to hire units or to replenish that dual guard slot that we saw on the scans?

These may have nothing to do with dual guard. Armors can apparently be broken, so at the moment it's hard to say for sure if that isn't what they're for.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Cysx

[Philranger]

I do wonder, with the unbreakable weapons and lower difficulty, what's the point of the Nohr game. I thought it was supposed to be more difficult with limited gold, but what's there to spend gold on? As someone who intends to major in business studies, breakable weapons was one of my favorite mechanics. It required strategic thinking, risk vs. reward and taught basic economics to gamers (mostly younger back when FE was rated E). That, among other reasons is why I'm going to miss breakable weapons and I fear that it goes against the Nohr principal. If the economic message behind Awakening was that you're royal and have DLC, then who cares, the Nohr path/Classic Games was more you're travelers hoping to keep things budgetary with some extra gold along the way. But with the lack of Weapon Durability, it seems Nohr is a bit more of a cop out. Shame.

Oh my God you are so melodramatic. It is possible to balance unlimited weapon uses by reducing supply and jacking up the cost of said weapon. A steel sword costs what, 700 in most games? Chump change, even if you have to buy say 5 (150 uses) of them over the course of a game for one character. Now say you only have to buy one of them (or even that only one or two are even available) but it costs 7,000?

[MCProductions]

^ This.

To be honest, my OCD hated the weapon uses. I didn't like having multiple copies of the same item loaded on my character.

I am really happy with this to be honest. Maybe they will have weapon weight come back, so we are less inclined to use a more powerful weapon? If there are weapon shops, perhaps they will only have limited quantities of weapons, like one iron sword and one steel axe available for one chapter? Maybe a character's starting weapon will factor in to their usefulness too.

Maybe gold will be used to hire units or to replenish that dual guard slot that we saw on the scans?

Buying horses like in Berwick Saga confirmed

Actually, thats a pretty darn good idea.

Both nerfs mounts by making you need to watch 2 health bars, AND gives a need to watch your gold tally.

[IceBrand]

Question: If a character dies in Phoenix mode, do they respawn at the point where they died or somewhere safe?

[MCProductions]

Question: If a character dies in Phoenix mode, do they respawn at the point where they died or somewhere safe?

I assume where they died, but don't quote me on that.

[arvilino]

I do wonder, with the unbreakable weapons and lower difficulty, what's the point of the Nohr game. I thought it was supposed to be more difficult with limited gold, but what's there to spend gold on? As someone who intends to major in business studies, breakable weapons was one of my favorite mechanics. It required strategic thinking, risk vs. reward and taught basic economics to gamers (mostly younger back when FE was rated E). That, among other reasons is why I'm going to miss breakable weapons and I fear that it goes against the Nohr principal. If the economic message behind Awakening was that you're royal and have DLC, then who cares, the Nohr path/Classic Games was more you're travelers hoping to keep things budgetary with some extra gold along the way. But with the lack of Weapon Durability, it seems Nohr is a bit more of a cop out. Shame.

Yet a great deal of them spent the whole game never actually using their rare weapons and stat boosters and ending up wasting them completley, in the west the first Fire Emblem games available were very much beatable always using the cheapest weapons and hoarding the good things.

A better way to teach it with infinite durability would be if in the Nohr route you never actually ever get enough gold to actually own/buy every weapon. The choice of spending funds would become a lot more important because you could never own everything and you might have to end up selling some weapon(s) you have in order to get a more appropriate one.

Edited May 12, 2015 by arvilino