dragonlordsd Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 So, with all this talk of bloodlines, and the images of Kamui half-shifting, or whatever he's doing, I think this may just be an expansion of the ideas found in the Jugdral series. Basically, Kamui has a bloodline which lets him either be possessed by or use the powers of one or more dragons. So, if after being possessed by Loptyr, Yurius could actually then turn into a dragon, instead of just accessing his power. I don't have any proof of this, but it would answer some questions. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel07 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Given that Kamui's own class is Dark Prince (Julius' class), I could see this perhaps being an extension of that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Jugdral had Manaketes in its backstory tho. Also, Awakening rehashed this concept already thru the Ylissean brand being what gives Chrom access to Falchion. Yet Marth didn't need said blood bond Also, Robin has the mark of Grima which gives a certain Julius-esque ability. That said, it's possible, but use of dragonstones = manakete regardless of bloodline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Jugdral had Manaketes in its backstory tho. Also, Awakening rehashed this concept already thru the Ylissean brand being what gives Chrom access to Falchion. Yet Marth didn't need said blood bond Also, Robin has the mark of Grima which gives a certain Julius-esque ability. That said, it's possible, but use of dragonstones = manakete regardless of bloodline. At the time of the Miricle of Darna, I believe they were still just dragons. I don't think they started degenerating yet. Might be wrong though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Given that Kamui's own class is Dark Prince (Julius' class), I could see this perhaps being an extension of that idea. I didn't even think of that. You're right. Jugdral had Manaketes in its backstory tho. Also, Awakening rehashed this concept already thru the Ylissean brand being what gives Chrom access to Falchion. Yet Marth didn't need said blood bond Also, Robin has the mark of Grima which gives a certain Julius-esque ability. That said, it's possible, but use of dragonstones = manakete regardless of bloodline. I'm not saying there are no manaketes, just that dragon blood doesn't mean Kamui is one. Remember, Manaketes are dragons that have turned into humans, not the other way around. They use the dragonstones to turn into their "real" forms. On the subject of dragonstones, have we seen any images showing Kamui using one? If so, is the word used for dragonstone the same one as usual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) At the time of the Miricle of Darna, I believe they were still just dragons. I don't think they started degenerating yet. Might be wrong though... The dragon gods are mentioned as taking human form when blessing the crusaders... (Naga is mentioned to take the form of a little girl, IIRC, the guys doing the FE4 retranslation mentioned this instead of just "maiden") On the subject of dragonstones, have we seen any images showing Kamui using one? If so, is the word used for dragonstone the same one as usual? Yes and yes. Edited May 15, 2015 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) The little box at the bottom on this page seems to explain about Kamui's bloodline and the use of Dragonstone, but I don't think it has been translated yet: http://serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/fami1405-8.jpg Edited May 15, 2015 by Ryo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamui-of-Nohr Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) The little box at the bottom on this page seems to explain about Kamui's bloodline and the use of Dragonstone, but I don't think it has been translated yet: http://serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/fami1405-8.jpgI'm pretty sure it says that all of the siblings have Dragon blood (Which is why they can use the Dragon's Pulse/Vein ability, but only Kamui herself won the genetic lottery which meant that he inherited a huge amount of dragon blood (Moreso than their siblings) which is she has red eyes, pointed ears and the ability to use dragonstones. My Japanese kinda sucks so if anybody else is willing to give a better translation, we would appreciate it.So I think it's safe to say Kamui is a manakete and that their siblings are just descendants of dragons/manaketes. Edited May 15, 2015 by Kamui-of-Nohr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledah* Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure it says that all of the siblings have Dragon blood (Which is why they can use the Dragon's Pulse/Vein ability, but only Kamui herself won the genetic lottery which meant that he inherited a huge amount of dragon blood (Moreso than their siblings) which is she has red eyes, pointed ears and the ability to use dragonstones. My Japanese kinda sucks so if anybody else is willing to give a better translation, we would appreciate it. So I think it's safe to say Kamui is a manakete and that their siblings are just descendants of dragons/manaketes. That's the point I think. It's like in SOIaF there is a family with "dragon blood", the Targaryen, but only one after many years had enough to get and dominate dragons (so far and simplifying the story but whatever) The reason why we can't change his eye color is probably because the red manakete eyes mark him as the only true dragon on both the families at the moment(if Aqua isn't one) and that is a focal point of the plot The major difference with Julius or not is the pocession that I doubt it will happen with the protagonist and I think him like the other major blood guys so far don't is a manakete per se but his dragonstone can activate his blood turning him in a dragon Edited May 15, 2015 by Ledah* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 It depends on how you define what a manakete is. If it's someone who can use a dragon stone to transform, then yes Kamui is one and his siblings are not. If it's a dragon (as in a species) that takes on a human form until they use a dragon stone, then Kamui is simply a human with "dragon blood". I'm not bothered by the distinction. Kamui is a manakete, in practice if not also in name. Question: If a Elibe, Magvel or Akaneia Manakete lost their ability to transform and was stuck in their human form, would they still be a manakete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledah* Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 It depends on how you define what a manakete is. If it's someone who can use a dragon stone to transform, then yes Kamui is one and his siblings are not. If it's a dragon (as in a species) that takes on a human form until they use a dragon stone, then Kamui is simply a human with "dragon blood". I'm not bothered by the distinction. Kamui is a manakete, in practice if not also in name. Question: If a Elibe, Magvel or Akaneia Manakete lost their ability to transform and was stuck in their human form, would they still be a manakete? Gotoh don't use the manakete class in any game although this could be because of gameplay reasons. Take that as you will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Question: If a Elibe, Magvel or Akaneia Manakete lost their ability to transform and was stuck in their human form, would they still be a manakete? Gotoh and Xane discarded/destroyed their dragonstones and still consider themselves manakete, I think. (Bantu also discards his at the end of FE3 as well, if I remember correctly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 My question is how did they get this "dragon bloodline"? Are they direct descendants of dragons (as in one of their ancestors was an actual dragon), or that their ancestors made a blood-pact with dragons and this was passed down through generations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethin Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Question: If a Elibe, Magvel or Akaneia Manakete lost their ability to transform and was stuck in their human form, would they still be a manakete? Gotoh and Xane got rid of their dragonstones (I don't think it's explained why), but I'd still count them as manaketes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel07 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 It depends on how you define what a manakete is. If it's someone who can use a dragon stone to transform, then yes Kamui is one and his siblings are not. If it's a dragon (as in a species) that takes on a human form until they use a dragon stone, then Kamui is simply a human with "dragon blood". I'm not bothered by the distinction. Kamui is a manakete, in practice if not also in name. Question: If a Elibe, Magvel or Akaneia Manakete lost their ability to transform and was stuck in their human form, would they still be a manakete? Well, I would imagine they would. Even if they couldn't transform, they would still have things like their longevity and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 It depends on how you define what a manakete is. If it's someone who can use a dragon stone to transform, then yes Kamui is one and his siblings are not. If it's a dragon (as in a species) that takes on a human form until they use a dragon stone, then Kamui is simply a human with "dragon blood". I'm not bothered by the distinction. Kamui is a manakete, in practice if not also in name. Question: If a Elibe, Magvel or Akaneia Manakete lost their ability to transform and was stuck in their human form, would they still be a manakete? I don't think so. Gotoh and Sophia are never referred to as a manakete in their games despite filling this criteria. The dragonstone seems to cement your status as manakete There are no Magvel examples to draw upon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I do wonder where Xane got the ability to shapeshift into other people, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethin Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 My question is how did they get this "dragon bloodline"? Are they direct descendants of dragons (as in one of their ancestors was an actual dragon), or that their ancestors made a blood-pact with dragons and this was passed down through generations? I'm curious about this, too. Famitsu just says that the dragons are the 神祖竜 "divine ancestor dragons" and that the families claim to carry the 竜の血 "blood of the dragons." I'd lean toward Kamui being an actual descendant of dragons than a blood-bond, though, given the ability to transform. I do wonder where Xane got the ability to shapeshift into other people, though. I think Xane mentions that human shape was the easiest form for dragons to take on, so maybe all Archanean manaketes can shapeshift somewhat, and he's just really good at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I wouldn't be too surprised if being able to assume another's identity almost perfectly was another ability Divine Dragons have. (Though they'd probably have to learn how to do so, first.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I think Xane mentions that human shape was the easiest form for dragons to take on, so maybe all Archanean manaketes can shapeshift somewhat, and he's just really good at it?This actually makes a lot of sense. I have wondered before if Manakete can choose what their human form looks like. Anyway, I found the FE12 quotes I was looking for. Marth: Wait, Xane... Are you telling me...!? Xane: Yes: Gotoh is a divine dragon. And guess what? So am I. Xane: Oh, yeah... but y'see, after the war, Gotoh and I threw away our dragon stones. (from the SF wiki) Edited May 15, 2015 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Gotoh and Xane discarded/destroyed their dragonstones and still consider themselves manakete, I think. (Bantu also discards his at the end of FE3 as well, if I remember correctly) Gotoh and Xane got rid of their dragonstones (I don't think it's explained why), but I'd still count them as manaketes. I don't think so. Gotoh and Sophia are never referred to as a manakete in their games despite filling this criteria. The dragonstone seems to cement your status as manakete There are no Magvel examples to draw upon I guess my question is, is being a manakete an ability or is it a part of being a species? If it's an ability, then both dragons and humans with dragon blood can be manaketes. If it's trait of the species, then only dragons are true manaketes. I guess it's a matter of perspective, is the dragon or the human the true form? Is Nah a dragon with her powers sealed in a dragon stone or a human with enough dragon blood to use a dragon stone? Well, I would imagine they would. Even if they couldn't transform, they would still have things like their longevity and such. Interesting point on the longevity. I wonder if Kamui will outlive all his siblings because of his higher concentration of dragon blood. Edited May 15, 2015 by NekoKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethin Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 So Gotoh can switch forms even without a dragon stone? I guess my question is, is being a manakete an ability or is it a part of being a species? If it's an ability, then both dragons and humans with dragon blood can be manaketes. If it's trait of the species, then only dragons are true manaketes. I guess it's a matter of perspective, is the dragon or the human the true form? Is Nah a dragon with her powers sealed in a dragon stone or a human with enough dragon blood to use a dragon stone? It's never elaborated on, but I've always gotten the impression that manaketes create their dragonstones in the process of sealing away their natural powers, just like the original dragons-turned-human did. So I guess the defining line would be whether or not one could create a dragonstone/have any powers to seal away. Question on terminology: Does "manakete" refer specifically to dragons who have chosen to do the human-form-thing, or to the entire race of dragons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterique Sign Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I believe it's the human-form-thing. IIRC the reason behind the war between the Earth Dragons and the Divine Dragons was their refusal to seal their powers into dragonstones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I think the whole "Manakete = member of a sapient dragon race" thing is the most likely, personally. Edited May 15, 2015 by Just call me AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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