Unit Optimization Thread

[HeoandReo]

Charlotte!Midoriko has potential to be pretty nasty.

Charlotte: 3/0/0/2/0/-2/-2
Kaze: -2/0/2/3/-2/-1/1
Midoriko: 1/1/3/6/-1/-2/0.

Charlotte fixes up Kaze's lower strength, but also enhances his speed tremendously. Berserker Midoriko will hit 41 strength, 35 skill and 39(!!) speed. She can also get access to Extravagance, Luna(Kaze with Silas/Xander and Charlotte with Pieri), and on Third Route she can nab Breaking Sky(A+ Kinu or marriage to Shinonome) and Ogre Strike(Charlotte A+ with Rinkah). She could do something like this:

Axefaire

Extravagance

Luna/Breaking Sky

Copycat

Ogre Strike/Overbearing/Deadly Breath/Swordbreaker(Latter three come from a marriage to Lutz)

---

For your Matoi question, I just thought something like this. You may want to consider what the A+ options are for each character, just to make sure everything lines up for both Matoi and Kanna.

Hinoka!Matoi: 1/0/2/0/0/3/2

Just to take an inventory of notable skills, here are who each parent can A+ with.

Tsubaki: Hinata(not useful), Saizou(Snake Venom, Lethality, Copycat), Asama(Magic Counter) and Zero(Movement+1, maybe Kunaibreaker?)

Hinoka: Azura(not useful unless she gives Hinoka something other than Peg), Sakura(Magic Counter), Setsuna(Prescient Victory, Raven Strike, Bowfaire) and Camilla (Deadly Breath, Overbearing, Swordbreaker)

Matoi: Sophie(Open Assault, Aegis, Luna, Diamond Strike), Shara(not useful for Hinoka!Matoi), Mitama(same as Asama), Eponine(same as Zero)

I might go something like Tsubaki A+ Saizou, Hinoka A+ Setsuna, and Matoi A+ Sophie, to have this inheritance:

Tsubaki passes Copycat

Hinoka passes Prescient Victory

*Pass Lethality and Magic Counter for Streetpass

Matoi A+ Sophie (gets access to Paladin for a class option and the skills I mentioned)

Swallow Strike, Breaking Sky, Lancefaire, Prescient Victory, Open Assault/Diamond Strike/Copycat

For asset/flaw, I'm leaning a bit towards +Spe/-Def or +Spe/-Lck. Speed, as we've established, is Matoi's weakest stat, so she is going to want to have her child improve on that. Defense is a little more expendable, so I'm going to go with that as our example:

Avatar: 0/0/2/4/1/-3/-1

Hinoka!Matoi: 1/0/2/0/0/3/2

Kanna: 1/0/4/4/1/0/1

Now KannaF has quite a few solid A+ options. Midoriko allows her to pick up Extravagance, Kinu can give her Breaking Sky(if you opted to pass something other than that), Mitama gives Tomefaire for magic builds and Magic Counter, and Velour gives the Berserker option and Axebreaker. All of her Hoshido husbands give something useful. Her Nohr/both route husbands not so much imo but they could still work. Foleo/Deere in particular could be useful if you're having her end as a White Blood or Falcon Knight.

Usually I think you should be fine passing Breaking Sky with a few exceptions: If you want her to end in a specific class that uses lances you might want to pass Lancefaire, or if you want to take advantage of Copycat's utility, you can pass that to give her more free reign in husband choice. I might do something like this:

Avatar passes whatever

Matoi passes Breaking Sky

Kanna A+ Midoriko

Swallow Strike, Breaking Sky, Extravagance, Luna/Swordfaire/Servant's Joy/Copycat(dependent on husband), something else

From here, I think you should be able to determine what class option would suit Matoi and Kanna best, given what is available to each of them through A+ supports and Kanna's husbands.

(if you're focusing on Streetpass though, Oni Savage is an easy choice)

Edited July 8, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Featherwick]

So, I need some advice. I have worked out most of my pairings for my planned Nohr route, but I currently have 5 pairings left to do and am not sure who to put with who.

At this point the unpaired units are...

Males: Zero, Jakob, Leo, Kaze, and Arthur

Females: Felicia, Camila, Charlotte, Nyx, and Pieri

What would you guys recommend?

I'd say Pieri/Arthur for 3/1/3/2/-2/0/2

Nyx/Leo for -1/6/-1/1/0/-1/4 Alternatively Felica could work with -3/5/1/0/1/0/4 They're pretty similar, Nyx gives theif while Felicia gives Mercenary.

Charlotte/Jakob for 6/-1/3/3/0/-1/-2 alternatively Camilla/Jakob works with 4/-2/4/2/-2/2/0 Where Charlotte gives Fighter and Camilla gives Wyvern Rider,both are just up to your opinion really.

Camilla/Kaze for 0/0/4/5/-3/1/2 or Charlotte/Kaze for 2/1/3/6/-1/-2/0 Charlotte is probably better,, but it depends on which kid you want to be better.

Felicia/Zero for -3/3/0/5/1/0/3 or Camilla or Charlotte could work. Basically it comes down to which kid do you like? Do you like Epinone? If so Charlotte is probably the best since she gives great strength and speed, while Camilla gives more middling stats, but doesn't hurt anything really important. Felicia is kind of just leftovers, since she gives Magic and so few kids actually want Magic.

[anachronism89]

So, I need some advice. I have worked out most of my pairings for my planned Nohr route, but I currently have 5 pairings left to do and am not sure who to put with who.

At this point the unpaired units are...

Males: Zero, Jakob, Leo, Kaze, and Arthur

Females: Felicia, Camila, Charlotte, Nyx, and Pieri

What would you guys recommend?

I would tend toward enhancing father's natural mods. Mido is the exception to this: she will never have great magic growth, so she just has to deal with Kaze's -2 str.

My personals choices would be:

Felicia!Eponne (Outlaw, Dark Mage, Rod Knight)

+5 spd, +3 mag, +3 res, +1 lck, 0 def, 0 skl, -3 str,

Zero is nudging her magical, so I'd embrace it. Nyx gives better mag growth, but there's full class overlap and Foleo doesn't particularly benefit from Felicia's mercenary. This works. Make her a speedy sorc or a strategist for support.

Nyx!Foleo (Rod Knight, Dark Mage, Outlaw)

+6 mag, +4 res, +1 spd, 0 lck, -1 str, -1 skl, -1 def

Foleo obviously wants more magic mods, so go Nyx. Has the benefit of combating Leo's -spd.

Charlotte!Deere (Rod Knight, Cav, Fighter)

+6 str, +3 spd, +3 skl, 0 lck, -1 mag, -1 def, -2 res

As has been mentioned, this is a strong use of Charlotte. Lutz doesn't need fighter or rod knight, and it's a waste of Char imo to simply use her to give Mido an average strength mod. These mods speak for themselves, and Berserker doesn't hurt.

Pieri!Lutz (Wyvern, Fighter, Cav)

+3 str, +3 skl, +2 spd, +2 res, +1 mag, 0 def, -2 lck

These last two are a matter of preference for me as the mods are mostly comparable and neither Mido nor Lutz really NEED cav. I went this way to avoid Camila!Lutz's -4 lck. If you love Luna, you can give Pieri to Mido and get it on Lutz from A+ Ignis.

Camila!Mido (Herb Merchant, Ninja, Wyvern)

+5 spd, +4 skl, +2 res, +1 def, 0 str, 0 mag, -3 lck

Oh Mido. Your daddy gave you everything you need to speed around the battlefield tickling everyone. As I mentioned, Mido is the one - str character that I personally wouldn't push toward mag because she has such underwhelming magic growth. She's never really going to be a bruiser, but this one works well enough as a debuffing Elite Ninja with Deadly Breath.

Edited July 8, 2015 by anachronism89

[astrophys]

Thanks, HeoandReo!

Going with Hinoka + Setsuna A+ sounds like a really good idea… on that note, if I used a buddy seal to go to Golden Kite Warrior (which shares a common promotion with Bowman and Pegasus Warrior), would Hinoka start learning the missing Bowman skills (Prescient Victory + Raven Strike) before picking up Soar? If so, it might make it easy for Hinoka to pick up Prescient Victory, as she'd get to keep her lance rank as a Golden Kite Warrior rather than starting with a new weapon rank from the beginning.

And even if I cannot, taking a quick detour into the Bowman tree to do that seems worthwhile for Prescient Victory….

[Azz]

Thanks, HeoandReo!

Going with Hinoka + Setsuna A+ sounds like a really good idea… on that note, if I used a buddy seal to go to Golden Kite Warrior (which shares a common promotion with Bowman and Pegasus Warrior), would Hinoka start learning the missing Bowman skills (Prescient Victory + Raven Strike) before picking up Soar? If so, it might make it easy for Hinoka to pick up Prescient Victory, as she'd get to keep her lance rank as a Golden Kite Warrior rather than starting with a new weapon rank from the beginning.

And even if I cannot, taking a quick detour into the Bowman tree to do that seems worthwhile for Prescient Victory….

Yeah she would.

[Wayward Alchemist]

What about...

Setsuna!Kisaragi@Elite Ninja (via Setsuna)

+2/+1/+5/+2/+1/+0/-2

-Strength Seal (Takumi A+ Hinata/Ryoma)

-Defense Seal (Takumi's LF Reclass)

-Resistance Seal (Setsuna A+ Rinkah)

-Speed Seal (Takumi's LF Reclass)

-Magic Seal (Marriage with Female Kanna, if Mamui chose DM as his secondary class)/Kunaifarie/Copycat Puppet/Snake Venom/Prescient Victory/any marriage skill

Throw this guy at a boss or in a Street Pass battle and watch the world burn.

[astrophys]

EDIT/ADDENDUM: Interesting build that JothTheConquerer proposes… I assume that Shurkiens/Kunai and the five seals can all stack together? True, even the higher level Kunai can obliterate enemy stats, but imagine stacking all the seals ON TOP of it….

Its also interesting because I have a temptation to run DM as my secondary, despite feeling it might be "suboptimal" and seeing what happens… so that build could work for me too, particularly as I haven't yet given any thought to Kanna's spouse…. although seeing that in my Hoshido playthrough I'm planning on Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna, that would also end up being incest (Kanna's grandmother and Kisaragi's father are siblings in this case)… although even Awakening allowed for cousin or aunt/uncle incest….

For asset/flaw, I'm leaning a bit towards +Spe/-Def or +Spe/-Lck. Speed, as we've established, is Matoi's weakest stat, so she is going to want to have her child improve on that. Defense is a little more expendable, so I'm going to go with that as our example:

Avatar: 0/0/2/4/1/-3/-1

Hinoka!Matoi: 1/0/2/0/0/3/2

Kanna: 1/0/4/4/1/0/1

I see…. that does make a good degree of sense…

I have to admit, with this being "Low HP Emblem", I'm a bit leery of -Def, given how that will lower my defense by 2 points and then another 3.8 over 38 levels to 20/20…. i.e., I'd be running a 5.8 (average) defense defect in a game where HPs at the endgame might be around 40…. although I have to admit that -Def or -Str would probably be the most honest choices of flaws on my part if I think about how I envision myself and what my strengths and weaknesses in the real world are…

Then again, even certain very good characters like Ryouma run a -2 mod, and Elise on Nohr has a -3 mod (and even worse defense growth than a defense flaw Avatar has), as does Azura/Aqua on both routes…. so I'm probably being just a bit too panicky about the whole idea of "low HP emblem"…

+SPD does sound like a very wise choice for an asset… the ability that it provides to help avoid being doubled is a huge defensive benefit, sometimes far more than the defense stat itself, and it also has offensive utility.

I personally like +Mag for its associations with intellect and study (I'm of a scholarly bent when I'm not doing my video game and related hobbies), although I cannot shake the feeling it might not be a wise choice on Hoshido, with the Avatar being so clearly tilted toward strength in their growths and having the Yato as a strength based personal weapon. Although it does give a lesser +2 SPD

Although perhaps I'm worrying needlessly…

+SPD/-Def is probably the overall smarter choice…. +2 Skl, +4 Spd, +1 Lck, -3 Def, -1 Res.

Growths (as White Blood): 60% HP, 60% Str, 40% Mag, 55% Skl, 70% Spd, 55% Lck, 40% Def, 20% Res

+Mag/-Def: +4 Mag, +2 Spd, -1 Lck, -3 Def, +1 Res

+Mag/-Def (as White Blood): 60% HP, 60% Str, 60% Mag, 50% Skl, 60% Spd, 50% Lck, 40% Def, 25% Res

Although +Mag would tend to make the use of the Dragonstone more powerful…. although its meant to be a defensive weapon, so -DEF contradicts that part… but +4 Mag (at cap, +20% in growths) and +2 spd (at cap, +5% in growths) helps… of course, as Dragonstone cannot double, speed is only useful for it insofar as it prevents beign doubled itself.

+SPD/-DEF Avatar: 0/0/2/4/1/-3/-1

Hinoka!Matoi: 1/0/2/0/0/3/2

Kanna: 1/0/4/4/1/0/1

+MAG/-DEF Avatar: 0/4/0/2/-1/-3/1

Hinoka!Matoi: 1/0/2/0/0/3/2

Kanna: 1/4/2/2/-1/0/3

More defensive (better resistance) and more magic for use of Dragonstone, but less spd/skill…

Thinking ahead, what would you suggest if in the 3rd route one had Luna!Matoi as an alternate (although her growths aren't as good)…

Luna!Matoi: -1 Str, +1 Mag, +2 Skl, +1 Spd, +0 lck, +5 Def, +0 Res.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Edited July 9, 2015 by astrophys

[HeoandReo]

For Luna!Matoi, Luna has better A+ options than Hinoka at the cost of Matoi having less freedom for A+ supports herself. She's mostly forced to A+ Shara if she wants Breaking Sky, since Tsubaki can't pass it himself. It's not a big deal, though, since Sophie and Shara suit her needs much better than Mitama and Eponine.

Luna can A+ with Setsuna(same as Hinoka), Pieri(Cav), Camilla and Belka. (both Wyvern) I'm leaning a little bit towards Pieri if you don't care for Breaking Sky so that she can at least get Luna, but Camilla/Belka could work too. Maybe pass Deadly Breath in that case.

For the asset/flaw combo, Luck is a viable flaw as well. I would have gone with it myself but I didn't want to reduce her offenses too much. Wouldn't recommend a luck flaw for Luna!Matoi since she doesn't hit as hard by default, but you might be able to get away with it on Hinoka!Matoi.

[astrophys]

Good points about Luna!Matoi… .Deadly Breath would probably allow for much more damage total (area of effect, 20% damage to multiple enemies potentially, not situational), but Overbearing would give an in-battle bonus of +5… and of course, Peiri might be good for getting Luna on Luna….

About asset/flaws….

My main concern about luck is that I had heard that in this game enemy crit rates are much more likely to be non-trivial than in Awakening, so I was concerned that that might be particularly deadly…

Its also a -20% penalty, from 45% to 25%, which becomes 35% on White Blood (45% in +20% luck classes like Pegasus)… 40% on White Blood if you have +SPD…

Clearly, LCK is valued less than than the other stats by the game's apparent logic, as it gives much larger bonuses and penalties, and even the luck stat booster increases luck by 4 this time… hence, it seems to be penalized more than most flaws…

But yeah, +SPD/-LCK is -1 Str, -1 Mag, +2 Skl, +4 SPD, -1 Lck, while +Mag/-Lck would be -1 Str, +3 Mag, +2 Spd, -3 Lck, +2 Res

Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna: 0 Str, -1 Mag, +4 Skl, +4 Spd, -1 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res OR 0 Str, +3 Mag, +2 Skl, +2 Spd, -3 Lck, +3 Def, +4 Res for the -LCK, speed boosting examples that I cited above….

+RES/-LCK would be -1 Str, +1 Mag, +2 Spd, -3 Lck, +4 Res on Kamui and would give Kanna 0 Str, +1 Mag, +2 Skl, +2 Spd, -3 Lck, +3 Def, +6 Res, thus constituting the third and final of the three speed boosting (+SPD/+MAG/+RES) luck flaw (-LCK) options.

Res would yield a Kanna as a White Blood with: 34 Str, 29 Mag, 31 Spd, 32 Spd, 30 Lck, 34 Def, and 34 Res at caps… Kamui's own growths would be 50% Def, 35% Res in that class.

[ShotaLordNoctis]

doing one for Belka mothered Soleil here I would appreciate some assistance if you would'nt mind as I feel she can be quite diverse.

mods

str +1

skl+5

spd-2

lck+2

def+2

and res -1

I though up a few potential builds but Im not sure what to go with but here is one I came up with for elite Ninja

1.Swordfaire will be inherited through her father via his A+ with Odin ( if A+ dont enable the ability to reclass into friends secondary class then filler skill most likely)

2.Copycat puppet

3.Snake Venom

4. Sol

5.deadly breath

[HeoandReo]

doing one for Belka mothered Soleil here I would appreciate some assistance if you would'nt mind as I feel she can be quite diverse.

mods

str +1

skl+5

spd-2

lck+2

def+2

and res -1

I though up a few potential builds but Im not sure what to go with but here is one I came up with for elite Ninja

1.Swordfaire will be inherited through her father via his A+ with Odin ( if A+ dont enable the ability to reclass into friends secondary class then filler skill most likely)

2.Copycat puppet

3.Snake Venom

4. Sol

5.deadly breath

Lazward can't get Swordfaire from an A+ with Odin. Buddy Seals only allow reclassing into the partner's base class. Soleil I feel is one of the tougher kids to work with, mostly because both her and Lazward's A+ options are middling at best.

Lazward's A+ options are Saizou(Ninja overlap), Xander(Cav), Odin(Dark Mage) and Flannel(Fighter). Since Belka can get Fighter on her own and pass down a skill from that tree, I wouldn't recommend going there unless you want to make Lazward a good unit on his own. Xander is really the only choice out of those imo - I might pass Luna unless she can get it another way. In that case maybe pass Lifetaker from Odin.

Belka's A+ support options are Oboro(Lance Fighter), Camilla(Wyvern, maybe Dark Mage?), Luna(Merc) and Charlotte(Fighter overlap). All of them barring Oboro are pretty much useless to her, so if you're not on third route you might have a hard time.

Soleil's A+ options are Sophie(Cav), Mitama(Priestess), Ophelia(Dark Mage) and Eponine(Thief). Sophie and Mitama are probably the best of them, tbh. With Nosferatu nerfed Dark Mage doesn't work as well with Merc now. Thief has some class overlap and the skills are situational.

Soleil's husbands are probably going to be the most beneficial sources of class skills to her. Shigure can give Swallow Strike, Siegbert is good but redundant if she A+ with Sophie. Ignis is also pretty decent - he's another source of Luna and if you're going with Belka you might want Defensive Formation to deal with her low speed. In third route Gurei overlaps leaving Kisaragi, who honestly isn't too bad for her - Bowfaire and Prescient Strike could make her work as a Bow Knight.

If you're going to make her an Elite Ninja, I would just go Kunaifaire for the filler skill. 1-2 range attack + debuff looks like a pretty powerful niche - might as well try to capitalize on it as much as you can.

[astrophys]

Some thoughts in response to the prior entry (#336)…

Lazward cannot get sword faire, but he has Ninja as a secondary class and that has Kuanifaire…. although in all fairness a Hero has sufficiently higher strength than a NInja that Kunai Faire would only help to equalize the gap…. although Kunai are ranged and can double.

Soleil has another option for getting Swallow Strike if Lazward marries Luna, applicable on both Nohr/Conquest and (EDIT) 3rd/Invisible Kingdom. Since Lazward and Luna both start with the Mercenary class, and Solei also starts with the Mercenary class, the result will be Lazward and Luna both giving their secondary classes to Solei.

Luna!Soleil would end up as a Mercenary/Hero/Bow Knight, Pegasus Warrior/Falcon Warrior/Golden Kite Warrior, and Ninja/Elite Ninja/Puppeteer.

Marrying Kisaragi in the 3rd route would then provide her with Bowman/Holy Bowman, which means she could take ending classes of Bow Knight, Holy Bowman, Golden Kite warrior, Elite Ninja, or Puppeteer while using her two weapon-faires, Kunaifaire (from her father) and Bowfaire (from her husband if its Kisaragi). EDIT: OH, you already mentioned that….

But Luna!Soleil would get both Swallow Strike (which you've suggested getting from Shigure) and then Kisagari could give her Raven Strike, Prescient Victory, and Bowfaire…. she does have Snake Venon or whatever its called and Lethality from the Ninja line as well.

Edited July 9, 2015 by astrophys

[ShotaLordNoctis]

alright thanks Illl just be sure to replace Sword faire with kunai faire Ive also been meaning to try Mozume Soleil since I think she can be pretty devastating

str+2

skl+4

spd+1

luck+3

def 0

res-2

Since mozume has the archer Line I intend to pass down her bowfaire and make her stay puppeteer

where as lazward will pass down kunai faire

luna and copycat as usual but im stuck as to what to use for the last skill which Im probably going to fill with a breaker skill but if there is a better option I would like to know

[astrophys]

You know, Invisible Kingdom Corrin gets access to both of his promotions, so he could get a pretty solid natural skillset before he even worries about other class trees, including his buddy seals and marriage seals:

1. Noble Lineage [a weaker Veteran, but we all know how useful Veteran was in Awakening; obviously, replace this when maxed out]

2. Dragon Fang (a proc)

3. Draconic Curse (-4 general debuff to enemy)

4. Hoshido

5. Nohr

* Noble Lineage could be replaced by the in-class tree Draconic Shield without necessitating leaving the class tree… this would also benefit from Hoshido, I think….

Now, Hoshido's just a renamed Rightful King, and in Awakening I tended to not think that highly of Rightful King because proc stacking in your own slots was often more effective and you only had 5 slots to go around…. however, now, with less class access and the ability of Nohr to borrow procs…..

Consider a Nohrian 2nd gen unit with a Cavalier parent (such as Xander, Pieri, Silas, etc.) and a Knight parent (Benoit, Effie). That easily creates a unit with access to Aegis + Pavise + Luna… this could facilitate a tanking role on their part while simultaneously allowing them to effectively gift three extra skills onto the Avatar if they paired with him for the cost of only one of the Avatar's skills (Nohr)… and then three skills would also get amplified in activation rate by Hoshido.

Or, as a different, perhaps more offense orientated example, a Hoshidan 2nd-gen units with classes/inheritances of Samurai and either Lance Fighter or Spellcaster. There are many units that could meet this criterion, and they'd all be able to get Astra/Breaking Sky to pass onto the Avatar's Nohr. And then Lethality is also out there on the Hoshidan side…

Speaking of Corrin's promotions, which one do you think would be more optimal to run in the 3rd path after he's already picked up all the skills he wants from both?

[Wayward Alchemist]

If Anna's base growths are true., Anna!Kanna would be the best unit in game.

My Anna!Kanna don't sorrynotsorry

[Soen]

After seeing Copycat in action, I realized that this skill can result in some really funny shenanigans. Like making a unit dedicated to heal even better. Two healers are better than one, right? Expecially in multiplayer. So i tried to see if I can possibly make a decent healer with Copycat.

There aren't a lot of skills that help healing. Really, the only ones are Servant's Joy, Tomefaire and Magic+2. The unit that I have in mind is supposed to enter combat only if really necessary, so skills like Counter or Magic Counter are useless. The Priest(ess) line isn't that helpful, while Rod Knight seems better, just for Servant's Joy - since the unit is going to make a puppet, the more HP s/he can get, the better - and because Strategist is a mounted class with a decent Magic cap and access to A Staves.

The only way to get both Rod Knight and Puppeteer on a 1st Gen unit is pairing Felicia with either Lazward or Asama. With the first pairing, both Felicia and Lazward get the classes that I want, while with the second it's only Asama. Plus, Asama has -3 Magic as a modifier, and that's really something I don't want, but he gets Tomefaire.

Both Felicia!Soleil and Felicia!Mitama get Rod Knight and Puppeteer, but Soleil has +4 Magic, while Mitama has +1. Neither of their personal skills help with healing. Soleil gets Stubbornness, Sol and Kunaibreaker, Mitama gets Miracle, Tomefaire, Renewal, Effective Medicine and Household Cure. Thus Soleil has better Magic, Mitama has more helpful skills.

What do you suggest? Who's the better healer?

Edited July 9, 2015 by Soen

[astrophys]

EDITING MY POST TO RESPOND TO Soen as well… then I'll switch topics into my own thoughts:

The only way to get both Rod Knight and Puppeteer on a 1st Gen unit is pairing Felicia with either Lazward or Asama. With the first pairing, both Felicia and Lazward get the classes that I want, while with the second it's only Asama. Plus, Asama has -3 Magic as a modifier, and that's really something I don't want, but he gets Tomefaire.

Both Felicia!Soleil and Felicia!Mitama get Rod Knight and Puppeteer, but Soleil has +4 Magic, while Mitama has +1. Neither of their personal skills help with healing. Soleil gets Stubbornness, Sol and Kunaibreaker, Mitama gets Miracle, Tomefaire, Renewal, Effective Medicine and Household Cure. Thus Soleil has better Magic, Mitama has more helpful skills.

What do you suggest? Who's the better healer?

Well, one thing to consider… while Asama does get a -MAG mod, he actually has a magic growth in his personal growths, and so does his daughter…. he gets 20% personal magic growth, and his daughter gets 35% personal magic growth before any possible influence of her parent's growths, assuming Awakening style inheritance of growths. Felicia also has a 35% growth rate and a +2 magic modifier… after the child bonus they'll be magic neutral (+0) in modifiers, and assuming Awakening growths Mitama will be left with a 30% Magic growth.

Soleil does have a better absolute magic modifier (+3)… but she has a pathetic magic growth rate, which means she won't be getting much magic except that which her class end up giving her… Soleil has a personal 0% magic growth rate, and so does Lazward, which is relevant if you want to make her a dedicated healer (assuming growths inherit like Awakening, she'd be left with a 11.667% personal magic growth.

I'd say that Mitama is a far better healer for the time that matters… Soleil does have a better modifier in magic, but that doesn't really matter for a long time as her magic growths will be excruciatingly low compared to Mitama… Mitama will have a +18.333% growth rate advantage, additively.

CHANGING THE TOPIC NOW….

Thinking about things from a different angle….

As is obvious to those who have been looking at my posts, I've all along been planning Hinoka!Matoi for Hoshido and either Hinoka!Matoi or Luna!Matoi for 3rd route/Invisible Kingdom….

But this has got me thinking… what of the woman that I don't make the mother of Matoi? Who would she be best paired with?

For example, if I went with a 3rd route Hinoka!Matoi marrying Kamui, what would be Luna's best pairing in terms of the resulting child? [i do like the idea of Lazward x Luna due to Awakening, although I'm not going to claim that its actually optimal…. unless someone surprises me here…. Luna!Soleil would be Mercenary, Pegasus, and Ninja].

But stepping away from those biasses, which child do you think that Luna would be the best mother for, assuming Subaki gets taken by Hinoka? Luna would normally pass down Mercenary?

Luna gets her normal Nohrian and shared pool of husbands, as well as Hinata apparently in addition to the aforementioned Subaki… Hisame would end up as a Samurai/Oni Savage/Mercenary and Luna would get Swordfaire by marriage seal… but Hinata seems to have really low growths (235%), less than even Luna's (250%)…. and they all have negligible magic growth (5%, 0%, 0%),

But of course, she could still just still with someone from Nohr…

And then the reverse question: If I go with 3rd route Luna!Matoi marrying Kamui, that frees up Hinoka? Which of the remaining children would be better for her to be the mother of? Hinoka can marry within the Hoshidan marriage pool (except her siblings, Ryouma and Takmui), as well as Marx/Xander and Leon on the 3rd route. She would pass down Pegasus Knight as her class, although presumably she could pick up Lancefaire or Breaking Sky to pass down to a kid as well.

The royals have growths, although there's also the issue of classes… Hinoka!Seigbert would be Cavalier/Wyvern Rider/Pegasus Warrior, whereas Hinoka!Foleo would have Rod Knight, Dark Mage, and Pegasus Warrior.

Any thoughts?

Edited July 9, 2015 by astrophys

[Soen]

I think it completely depends on what role you want to give to Matoi. If you want a fully attcking unit, then Hinoka is a better choice, since she gives Breaking Sky, Lancefaire, Defence/Speed Seal. Luna is better for a support Matoi, since it gives skills like Stubbornness, Sol, Kunaibreaker and Axebreaker. It's up to you.

Luna gives Mercenary, which has downgraded from Awakening with the loss of Armsthrift. Sol is still really cool, but the Fighter line can also get it, and in Nohr there are plenty of people who have access to Fighter. I'd just say pair her with someone who already has Mercenary, so either Lazward or Silas. IMO Pegasus Warrior would benefit Sophie much more than Soleil, since she can become a much more reliable Great Knight with the skills that PegWarrior gives.

I can't really say anything on Hinoka, since I don't know what the enemies on the third route are, but in Hoshido she can possibly turn a lot of children into anti-flying units.

[astrophys]

That's true, given that Pegasus Warrior's upgrade, Golden Kite Warrior, gets Soar, which grants them a free +30 Hit/+30 Avoid against all flying units. Of course, that would be even more terrifying with someone who passes down Bowman, given that they they'd be able to combine that with an entire class of dedicated weapons (Bows) that act as flier killers.

By the way, back to your earlier question about optimizing your Copycat/Servant's Joy Healers…. I don't think Tomefaire actually helps in this game, as (at least judging from who the posts describe it), it says "Adds 5 damage when using a tome in battle" instead of "increase magic by 5 when equipped with a tome".

Actually, this [how -faires work] is also relevant point to my discussion of Matoi as well, assuming I've interpreted it correctly, as that means adding Lancefaire (or sword faire) lets her amplify her damage by 5 points while having no effect on whether Prodigy activates…. and given that Prodigy gives +4 points of damage if the higher of the enemy strength or magic is more than Matoi's corresponding stat (and Falcon Warrior Matoi has only 29 Str and 27 Mag, while Trueblade Matoi has only 31 Str and 28 Mag), this means that Matoi's prodigy ail be active the majority of the time if considering capped units, although there are a few rare enemies (Bow Knights, Golden Kite Warriors, Elite Ninjas, etc.) who also have low stats such that it won't work. But it will work again enemy Heros, Holy Lancers, Berserkers, Great Knights, Generals, Sorcerers, Excorcists, Basaras if a Pegasus Warrior, Trueblades if a Pegasus Warrior, Dark Knights, Shuras, etc., etc.

So basically, that 29 Str Falcon Warrior Matoi with an activated Prodigy will often have +4 damage, which is comparable to a 33 Str unit without a damage boosting personal skill.

[Soen]

Thank you for your help. I totally ignored growth rates, since in Awakening they didn't matter that much. Even with the change to Tomefaire, Mitama is still better, because she can get Renewal, Copycat, Miracle, Effective Medicine and Household Cure. There are no Magic boosting tomes/spells, right?

If you're planning to make Hinoka!Matoi a Falcon Warrior, then give her Lancefaire, Astra, Breaking Sky, Defense Seal and Speed Seal. I think this skillset really takes Matoi's strenghts and amplifies them. The damage you get from Prodigy becomes 10 with Astra, and with Lancefaire and the seals you can really make her a heavy damage dealer.

[astrophys]

Nope, no magic boosting ones that I can seem to find (unless I missed on)…

Of course, Eternal Seals do exist, and in Hoshido and Invisible Kingdom I understand that you can grind, so you should be able in principle to eventually Raise Soleil's magic…. it just would take ages for it to catch up, so I'd argue its not worth it…. besides, you'd be fighting against her stats… Lazward gets 45% Str and Soleil gets 60% strength, so assuming Awakening growths Soleil gets:

[35% +(Mother's Strength Growth%)/3]

as her strength growth.

Example: a mother with 30% Strength (like Luna) --> 45% STR Soleil…. a mother with 50% Str ---> 51.667% Str Soleil…. etc

[Soen]

Yeah, Soleil would be much better with a mother that's good in Str, like Charlotte or Effie.

I'm thinking of making the Avatar a General with Defensive Formation, having +Def/-Spd, thus trying to have the highest Str and Def I can reach in that class. I was thinking of giving him Astra, Flamboyant and Hoshido, but maybe Flamboyant might end up helping the enemy if he has Luna or Breaking Sky. One other set I was thinking was Pavise, Aegis, Sol, and Diamond Strike to create the perfect physical tank, but that doesn't help his attack power too much.

What do you think? Maybe I should swap one of those skills with Counter/Magic Counter?

[astrophys]

If you're concerned about Flamboyant making you more vulernable, you could compensate with a proc stack…. Generals have 32 SKL (31 with -SPD), so:

Astra+Flamboyant: 15% activation base + 15% activation (Flamboyant) +10% activation Hoshido = 40% activation rate fro Astra

Astra + Dragon Fang:

--> Astra: 15% activation base + 10% Hoshido = 25% activation for Astra

--> Dragon Fang: 23% base activation [0.75 skill] + 10% Hoshido = 33% activation for Astra.

--> Astra > Dragon Fang?

---> This should result in a higher % chance of getting a proc attack than just Astra +Flamboyant

Dragon Fang is likely to be very powerful as it seems to multiple ATK power (not damage) by 1.5, and since Generals already have 38 STR, + however much attack you have from your lance and weapon rank bonus, you stand to get some really big damage… I'll give the example of a Steel Lance, as its difficult to double attack won't matter.

38 STR + 10 Might + presumed 2 Weapon rank bonus if this works like Awakening… 50 ATK… Dragon Fang should add 25 damage, making the effective attack 75 ATK…

[Soen]

Woah, I never considered Dragon Fang to be as strong. I suppose it could help a lot. Then, if I make 3 of my skills Defensive Formation, Dragon Fang and Hoshido, this leaves other 2. I think I'll leave Pavise and Aegis, that way I'll cover as much weapons as possible.

[astrophys]

What do people think are the best flaws to take? The worst?

For example: -LCK and -SKL were often taken on Lunatic Awakening, from what I understand, but now they've been more heavily penalized than before -20% growth in the main stat , -5% in the peripheral stats)…. of course, this might be considered indicative that IS doesn't place as high a value on them, but a -SKL flaw will now very heavily cost in-game skill activation rates, far more so than it did in Awakening [personal skill growth reduces from 40% to 20%], as well as accuracy, and likewise -LCK could threaten to make on extremely critical prone (reduces luck growth to 25% personal from 45%).

With "Low-HP" Emblem being back in effect, it seems like -DEF could be dangerous… although the total growth rate penalty is more in line with other asset/flaws… (-10% Def, -5% Res, -5% Lck)… that would bring your personal defensive growths to 25% DEF and 20% RES, before assets…. although you start as a Nohr Prince(ss) so that gives you actual growths of 35% DEF and 25% RES, with the promotion of White Blood giving 40% Def and 20% Res and Dark Blood giving 30% Def and 35% Res.

Then again, Ryouma is supposed to be one of the powerful characters (with a strong personal weapon) and even he has a -2 Def -2 Res modifier and personal growths of 35% Def and 25% Res, which become 35% Def and 35% Res as a Trueblade, so if he can be made to work then perhaps this shows I was worrying about DEF too much…

A +MAG asset appeals to me because I could exploit either tomes or Magic weapons weapons (that Naginata that functions as a shock stick, Levin Sword, Bolt Axe, etc) with a 50% personal magic growth, even before class growths, which secures an average of 19 magic gained by 20/20… a 10% magic class would amplify this by a further 3.8, for 22.8 magic gained by 20/20, and a magic asset also increases your starting magic by 3. Comparing the Avatar's base stats vs their Nohr Prince class base stats, they seem to have a natural 1 magic in personal bases (4 as Nohr Prince vs. 3 class base), so these figures (19 from 50% growth classes, 3.8 from 10% growth classes, 3 from +MAG modification to bases, +1 in personal inherent bases) suggests you could get 26.8 magic above the class bases… even 23 magic above if you had been in a 0% magic class.

Basically, I see it allowing for powerful mixed offense options, using stuff like both Levin swords for magic damage at range and the Yato [you still have a 60% STR growth as a white Blood, so 7 starting STR + 3 promotion + .6 *38 = gives you 32.8 STR by 20/20… and +MAG would also give you 29.8 MAG by 20/20…