Unit Optimization Thread

[Soen]

I feel that -RES is the best flaw to pick. Your Res growth drops to 15(without considering classes), which is pretty bad, but Magic is still one of six types of weapons, and a lot of magical weapons like the Levin Sword are pretty much shit, since most of them can't double. Plus, if you take +MAG, then the Res growth becomes 20 and the Spd penalty from the flaw gets nullified. In the end, taking +MAG/-RES gives you +15% Mag and -10% Res, with the modifiers being +3 Mag, +1 Spd and -1 Res. I think it's a really good set.

[Featherwick]

I feel that -RES is the best flaw to pick. Your Res growth drops to 15(without considering classes), which is pretty bad, but Magic is still one of six types of weapons, and a lot of magical weapons like the Levin Sword are pretty much shit, since most of them can't double. Plus, if you take +MAG, then the Res growth becomes 20 and the Spd penalty from the flaw gets nullified. In the end, taking +MAG/-RES gives you +15% Mag and -10% Res, with the modifiers being +3 Mag, +1 Spd and -1 Res. I think it's a really good set.

I'd say -DEF is the best flaw. It's only a -10 for defense growth, -5 for resistance and luck. And the mods are again -1 luck, -3 defense, -1 resistance. So it doesn't really matter all that much.

For example, +Mag/-Def gives 0/4/0/2/0-1/-3/1 Which is pretty damn good.

Though, it's possible that -Def would be better with a HP/Str/Skl asset since they basically offset the negative modifier.

[astrophys]

I thought Levin Swords COULD double:

http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/inventory/swords

Levin Sword: C rank, 11 Might, 80 Hit, 0 Crit, -20 Avoid, 1-2 Range, Price: 3300, Magic Weapon, cannot inflict critical hits

As for the discussion of -RES or -DEF, I've compiled the calculations related to them…

Modification to base stats, according to: http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/hoshidan-characters/base-stats/

HP, Magic, Skill or Luck picked as Asset/Flaw: +3/-2

Strength or Speed picked as Asset/Flaw: +2/-1

Defence or Resistance picked as Asset/Flaw: : +1/-1

+Mag/-RES:

Personal Growths:

+20% Mag - 5% MAG = +15% Mag

+5% Spd - 5% Spd = +0% Spd

+5 % Res -10% Res = -5% Res

Nohr Prince(ss) Growths:

60% HP [45%+15%], 60% Str [45%+15%], 55% Mag [30%+15%+10%], 50% Skl [40%+10%], 55% Spd [45% +10%], 45% Lck [45%+0%], 45% Def [35%+10%], 25% Res [25% -5% +5%]

Mods: +3 Mag, +1 Spd, -1 Res

Starting Stats:

Nohr Princess: Level 1, 19 HP, 7 Str, 4+3=7 Mag, 7 Skl, 6 Spd, 6 Def, 2-1=1 Res, 5 Move

+MAG/-DEF

Personal Growths:

+20% Mag = +20% Mag

+5% Spd = +5% Spd

- 5% Lck = -5% Lck

-10 % Def = -10% Def

+5 % Res -5% Res = 0% Res

Nohr Prince(ss) Growths:

60% HP [45%+15%], 60% Str [45%+15%], 60% Mag [30%+20%+10%], 50% Skl [40%+10%], 60% Spd [45%+5% +10%], 40% Lck [45%-5%+0%], 35% Def [35%-10%+10%], 30% Res [25% +5%]

Mods:

+4 Mag, +2 Spd, -1 Lck, -3 Def, +1 Res

Starting Stats:

Nohr Princess: Level 1, 19 HP, 7 Str, 4+3=7 Mag, 7 Skl, 6 Spd, 6-1 =5 Def, 2 Res, 5 Move

Edited July 10, 2015 by astrophys

[Bovinian]

I feel that -RES is the best flaw to pick. Your Res growth drops to 15(without considering classes), which is pretty bad, but Magic is still one of six types of weapons, and a lot of magical weapons like the Levin Sword are pretty much shit, since most of them can't double. Plus, if you take +MAG, then the Res growth becomes 20 and the Spd penalty from the flaw gets nullified. In the end, taking +MAG/-RES gives you +15% Mag and -10% Res, with the modifiers being +3 Mag, +1 Spd and -1 Res. I think it's a really good set.

Magic non-tome weapons may not be as shitty as you think; they can still double, they just can't critical (well they also destroy your Avoid). Since tomes are now part of the weapon triangle and braves have been nerfed, magical weapons may be reasonably viable. In particular I can see the Shining Bow being really great for Adventurers, as it basically has the stats of a powerful tome (including the 1-2 range!) and can be used by a class that has magic on par with Dark Blood/Dark Knight, as well as great Speed.

Edit: Lol just realized I was only looking at the Nohrian classes. The same thing holds true for Shining Bow on War Priestesses, whose magic is almost as high as those of Exorcists.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Bovinian

[astrophys]

That's kind of along the lines that I was thinking… and even if we consider things like Levin Swords… that's 11 Might as magic that doesn't involve weird stuff like cutting your ability to double (C-rank/Steel equivalent) or reducing your MAG stat after each use as well as Crit Evade penalties (B-rank/Silver equivalent).

Sure, it does kill your Avoid and null out criticals, so it has problems of its own, but it avoids some of the different problems associated with higher end weapons.

An using a magic sword gives you a ranged magic option in your base class tree that isn't a Dragonstone (which is 1 range and cannot double), AND it can be powered by the same weapon-faire that powers Yato (Swordfaire)… because even though Dark Blood can use Tomes, in order to boost them with a Faire it would either need to replace Swordfaire or waste an extra slot to run both [if you even bothered getting a Nohr Prince + Secondary + Buddy + Marriage combination that provided for them].

One Swordfaire from a Samurai secondary, marriage, or buddy provides +5 damage to both Levin Swords and Yato….

[paladin21]

After seeing Copycat in action, I realized that this skill can result in some really funny shenanigans. Like making a unit dedicated to heal even better. Two healers are better than one, right? Expecially in multiplayer. So i tried to see if I can possibly make a decent healer with Copycat.

There aren't a lot of skills that help healing. Really, the only ones are Servant's Joy, Tomefaire and Magic+2. The unit that I have in mind is supposed to enter combat only if really necessary, so skills like Counter or Magic Counter are useless. The Priest(ess) line isn't that helpful, while Rod Knight seems better, just for Servant's Joy - since the unit is going to make a puppet, the more HP s/he can get, the better - and because Strategist is a mounted class with a decent Magic cap and access to A Staves.

The only way to get both Rod Knight and Puppeteer on a 1st Gen unit is pairing Felicia with either Lazward or Asama. With the first pairing, both Felicia and Lazward get the classes that I want, while with the second it's only Asama. Plus, Asama has -3 Magic as a modifier, and that's really something I don't want, but he gets Tomefaire.

Both Felicia!Soleil and Felicia!Mitama get Rod Knight and Puppeteer, but Soleil has +4 Magic, while Mitama has +1. Neither of their personal skills help with healing. Soleil gets Stubbornness, Sol and Kunaibreaker, Mitama gets Miracle, Tomefaire, Renewal, Effective Medicine and Household Cure. Thus Soleil has better Magic, Mitama has more helpful skills.

What do you suggest? Who's the better healer?

There are quite a lot of combinations to get the Rod-Puppeteer combo, like Saizou/Felicia, Kaze/Felicia, Kaze/Elise, or Kagerou/Jakob for both to get the class combination. For just one of the pair to get both class trees, you can pair Felicia with Asama (as you said) or Jakob with Rinkah, Orochi, Setsuna and Oboro. I'm not sure that you can get the ninja class for Felicia by marrying her to Lazward, since it's his secondary class and they don't share their original class. These only in the first generation.

I was thinking that the best grinder would be Midoriko. She can get Puppeteer and Easy Life. Make a puppet in the first turn and you'll have twice as many chances to get gold up to turn seven, with her personal skill adding to that. If we make her Rinkah's daughter, She'd also have access to Smithy, which also benefits from her personal skill (or you can buy that skill from another player's Midoriko if planning another pairing). Of course, if you pair Kaze with Elise or Felicia, you'd get the healer with the added benefit of finding money along the way.

[ShotaLordNoctis]

so with PVP being a thing it has put me to think if vantage will become a more valuable skill due to how effective it is on a streetpass team and I am definitely sticking it on Ophelia once I can. so is it worth to stick it on ALL my units for a online match or just for a few select offensive units for some real results while support units stay supporting

[Soen]

After overthinking it, I've come out with the idea that Orochi!Gurei is the best possible Copycat Healer that I could get.

Growth rates and Modifiers:

HP: 38,3% Str: 33,3%/ +2 Mag: 53,3%(this is the second highest Mag growth in the game for a 2nd Gen unit, bested only by Orochi!Syalla)/+4 Skl: 55%/+6 Spd: 30%/-3 Luck: 30%/0 Def: 33,3%/0 Res: 35%/0

Really, this Gurei is a beast. Saizou strangely has the second highest Mag growth rate among the males in the 1st Gen, with Leo having the highest. It really surprised me, expecially because Gaius's Mag growth in FE13 is only 15.

Orochi!Gurei has naturally access to Ninja, Samurai and Spellcaster, with the possibility to get Merchant and Great Merchant inheritance from Orochi(I think Household Cure is the best skill she can pass to him). He gets Rod Knight thanks to an A+ Support with Deere.

Talking about Skills, Sweet Tooth, Copycat and Servant's Joy are there. By marrying Matoi he gets access to Sun God, which coupled with Battle Command can help close allies, and Soar, which could offer him protection against pesky flying enemies which may try to attack him and his puppet. His class would be Strategist, since it has the same Mag cap as Exorcist and gives more mobility.

That took a lot of calculations. What do you think?

Edited July 10, 2015 by Soen

[astrophys]

Interesting… of course, the growth inheritance is still assumed on all of our parts… we still need confirmation, although it seems likely, given that stat caps inherit. But then again, class inheritance changed, so there's still the possibility that something has changed.

But I'm guilty of making the same types of calculations.

Its a cool build.

[Blue Sun]

How viable is a default Avatar (i.e. Asset=HP, Flaw+Luck)? I have a huge bias for leaving the Avatar with default everything on them, and I actually favor having a +2 Defense and Resistance modifier on them because I favor survivability a little more over other things (that and the minus one in Luck doesn't really bother me too much). I don't pay attention to growths too much since I plan on maxing all my units out however I can, but using an Avatar like that what are some of the best strategies to run with them if I want to get competitive?

[Dämonplay]

After seeing Copycat in action, I realized that this skill can result in some really funny shenanigans. Like making a unit dedicated to heal even better. Two healers are better than one, right? Expecially in multiplayer. So i tried to see if I can possibly make a decent healer with Copycat.

There aren't a lot of skills that help healing. Really, the only ones are Servant's Joy, Tomefaire and Magic+2. The unit that I have in mind is supposed to enter combat only if really necessary, so skills like Counter or Magic Counter are useless. The Priest(ess) line isn't that helpful, while Rod Knight seems better, just for Servant's Joy - since the unit is going to make a puppet, the more HP s/he can get, the better - and because Strategist is a mounted class with a decent Magic cap and access to A Staves.

The only way to get both Rod Knight and Puppeteer on a 1st Gen unit is pairing Felicia with either Lazward or Asama. With the first pairing, both Felicia and Lazward get the classes that I want, while with the second it's only Asama. Plus, Asama has -3 Magic as a modifier, and that's really something I don't want, but he gets Tomefaire.

Both Felicia!Soleil and Felicia!Mitama get Rod Knight and Puppeteer, but Soleil has +4 Magic, while Mitama has +1. Neither of their personal skills help with healing. Soleil gets Stubbornness, Sol and Kunaibreaker, Mitama gets Miracle, Tomefaire, Renewal, Effective Medicine and Household Cure. Thus Soleil has better Magic, Mitama has more helpful skills.

What do you suggest? Who's the better healer?

just go with Anna

[Blue Sun]

just go with Anna

We still don't even know how to get her in the first place.

[zoned out]

So /feg/ confirmed that Nyx!Eponine actually gives her the Spellcaster line. Shes faster than Nyx!Syalla while being less squishy. Also if you're playing the Nohr route, this pairing might be the only way to get breaking sky. She also gets access to Swallow Strike through either Zero A+ Tsubaki or Eponine A+ Matoi, Seems like a solid doubler, but the speed might be over kill.

Pic: https://data.archive.moe/board/vg/image/1436/60/1436602947938.jpg

Source: https://archive.moe/vg/thread/109101970/#109103306

Edited July 11, 2015 by zoned out

[Soen]

And besides, she probably doesn't have the good mods or all the skills that Orochi!Gurei has access to.

About +HP/-LUK, it really depends on how you want your Avatar to turn out. This set, eventually coupled with Yato - Nohr, gives the Avatar good defenses at the cost of a little bit of strength, which is easily fixed by Yato's Mt. And if you want to go full Great Knight or Blacksmith(I'd also say General or Shura, but those classes don't allow you to use Yato) than it's even better.

Since I decided to marry Gurei to Matoi, I was thinking to give her some use too in pvp. I thought to make her an anti-puppet unit, since it seems that Copycat is going to be the new Galeforce in terms of popularity. Setsuna!Matoi has some good classes and inheritance, plus she has Ninja from Gurei and Spellcaster via A+ with Syalla. Thus I want to give her Puppet Break and Golden Kite Warrior as a class, since it has a lower Str cap then Falcon Warrior and allows to use Bows for hit and run tactics(Matoi flies over to the puppet, heavily damages it or kills it, than she gets saved by Gurei or his puppet thanks to Vanished Disaster), plus they could be useful to eventually dispose of fliers too.

Since Puppet Break is forced, that leaves me with other four skills. Breaking Sky is certainly one of them, but I wasn't sure on the others. Soar might be a good idea to kill pesky fliers, and Prescient Strike coupled with Bowstrike and Prodigy gives a +13 damage on Player Phase. But she would be a little bit weak on Speed without Swallow Strike, even if thanks to Setsuna she has +2, so I might give it to her instead of Soar. What do you think?

Edited July 11, 2015 by Soen

[Dämonplay]

And besides, she probably doesn't have the good mods or all the skills that Orochi!Gurei has access to.

About +HP/-LUK, it really depends on how you want your Avatar to turn out. This set, eventually coupled with Yato - Nohr, gives the Avatar good defenses at the cost of a little bit of strength, which is easily fixed by Yato's Mt. And if you want to go full Great Knight or Blacksmith(I'd also say General or Shura, but those classes don't allow you to use Yato) than it's even better.

Since I decided to marry Gurei to Matoi, I was thinking to give her some use too in pvp. I thought to make her an anti-puppet unit, since it seems that Copycat is going to be the new Galeforce in terms of popularity. Setsuna!Matoi has some good classes and inheritance, plus she has Ninja from Gurei and Spellcaster via A+ with Syalla. Thus I want to give her Puppet Break and Golden Kite Warrior as a class, since it has a lower Str cap then Falcon Warrior and allows to use Bows for hit and run tactics(Matoi flies over to the puppet, heavily damages it or kills it, than she gets saved by Gurei or his puppet thanks to Vanished Disaster), plus they could be useful to eventually dispose of fliers too.

Since Puppet Break is forced, that leaves me with other four skills. Breaking Sky is certainly one of them, but I wasn't sure on the others. Soar might be a good idea to kill pesky fliers, and Prescient Strike coupled with Bowstrike and Prodigy gives a +13 damage on Player Phase. But she would be a little bit weak on Speed without Swallow Strike, even if thanks to Setsuna she has +2, so I might give it to her instead of Soar. What do you think?

Anna is the best for the job. Of course we don't know how but we know that we can play her. So she has access to 3 basic classes. Also the highest growth rates in the entire game. Why not use her?

[Soen]

Anna has great growths and decent modifiers, that's true. She also has access to both Strategist and Puppeteer.

But we still don't know if she can marry only with the Avatar and if she even has any A+ support. Given that she has 3 classes, she might have poor S and A+ choiches, and I don't want to marry her just to give her Golden Kite Warrior. If she by chance gets an A+ support with Yuugiri, than I'm more than happy and I'll use her. But I still want to know who she can support with before saying that you're right.

[Morgan]

Alright I'm struggling with finding a good partner for Elise. I've heard Odin is good and she's defin early a magical mom but there aren't too many magic parents so I need some advice for what you all think Elise should do/ mother.

[paladin21]

Anna has great growths and decent modifiers, that's true. She also has access to both Strategist and Puppeteer.

But we still don't know if she can marry only with the Avatar and if she even has any A+ support. Given that she has 3 classes, she might have poor S and A+ choiches, and I don't want to marry her just to give her Golden Kite Warrior. If she by chance gets an A+ support with Yuugiri, than I'm more than happy and I'll use her. But I still want to know who she can support with before saying that you're right.

You can marry her in one playthrough, export her, and then just buy her that skill for the other playthroughs.

[Soen]

Really? How many skills can you get from another file? Because if I can get both Soar and Sun God than I'll make my secondary class Bowman on one of my Hoshido runs and marry Anna.

The only kids in Nohr that are really into magic are Foleo and Ophelia. Elise can't have Foleo as a child, and her Hoshido husbands(Ryoma and Takumi) really don't work well with her. Elise passes down Rod Knight, whose strong points are supporting skills and access to Strategist, one of the best magical classes. Ophelia though has no use for both of those strong points, since she should be focusing on high Crit rates, thus Sorcerer is the best class for her, expecially because Excalibur has an high Crit rate. Elise gives her good mods and Revenant Knight skill inheritance, but nothing more, I think.

[Leif]

Alright I'm struggling with finding a good partner for Elise. I've heard Odin is good and she's defin early a magical mom but there aren't too many magic parents so I need some advice for what you all think Elise should do/ mother.

Yes, Elise is a great mother for Ophelia for a Nohr Route run. Ophelia gets to use Dragon's Vein (I think, because Elise is a royal, right?) and she gets a nice bonus in magic and speed.

Anyway, I have a very strong Third Gen Kanna Build.

Parents:

+Speed/-Luck Avatar Female paired with Hana!Shinonome.

If Third Generation modifiers work like they did in Awakening (no +1 bonus to every stat), then we get a Kanna with these stats:

Strength: +2

Magic: +0

Skill: +6 (!!!)

Speed: +8 (!!!)

Luck: +0

Defense: -4 (ouch)

Resistance: +0

Total = +12

I wish he'd get that nice +1 bonus in every stat, then we'd have a little monster on our hands.

This works well with the White Blood Class since it buffs the class's poor speed stat cap as well as its skill. Defense takes a bad hit, but White blood has a high enough defense cap that it doesn't hurt that badly.

Recommended PvP Skills:

Personal.) Dragon Child

1.) Hoshido

2.) Copycat Puppet

3.) Puppet Breaker

4.) Breaking Sky

5.) Flamboyant

With Shinonome as Kanna's Father, Shinonome can pass his Lancer class as well as a Copycat Skill from an A+ support with Gurei.

Avatar can pass any skill she wants, so in this case, it would be Puppet Breaker.

He can have that baton, Misfortune and Sin, to cripple enemy units as well as a forged Warrior Katana, Brave Sword, and a Levin Sword to finish the job.

Fun Fact: a Hana!Shinonome passes his light brown hair color to Kanna. Kanna looks like Kingdom Hearts's Sora with that hair color. xD

Edited July 11, 2015 by Leif

[Ebony]

After overthinking it, I've come out with the idea that Orochi!Gurei is the best possible Copycat Healer that I could get.

Growth rates and Modifiers:

HP: 38,3% Str: 33,3%/ +2 Mag: 53,3%(this is the second highest Mag growth in the game for a 2nd Gen unit, bested only by Orochi!Syalla)/+4 Skl: 55%/+6 Spd: 30%/-3 Luck: 30%/0 Def: 33,3%/0 Res: 35%/0

Really, this Gurei is a beast. Saizou strangely has the second highest Mag growth rate among the males in the 1st Gen, with Leo having the highest. It really surprised me, expecially because Gaius's Mag growth in FE13 is only 15.

Orochi!Gurei has naturally access to Ninja, Samurai and Spellcaster, with the possibility to get Merchant and Great Merchant inheritance from Orochi(I think Household Cure is the best skill she can pass to him). He gets Rod Knight thanks to an A+ Support with Deere.

Talking about Skills, Sweet Tooth, Copycat and Servant's Joy are there. By marrying Matoi he gets access to Sun God, which coupled with Battle Command can help close allies, and Soar, which could offer him protection against pesky flying enemies which may try to attack him and his puppet. His class would be Strategist, since it has the same Mag cap as Exorcist and gives more mobility.

That took a lot of calculations. What do you think?

Wowowow, I actually REALLY like this idea. I think I may try it, actually!

[HTakara82]

Anna has great growths and decent modifiers, that's true. She also has access to both Strategist and Puppeteer.

But we still don't know if she can marry only with the Avatar and if she even has any A+ support. Given that she has 3 classes, she might have poor S and A+ choiches, and I don't want to marry her just to give her Golden Kite Warrior. If she by chance gets an A+ support with Yuugiri, than I'm more than happy and I'll use her. But I still want to know who she can support with before saying that you're right.

Anna is pretty much the best, highest growth totals in the game, and great secondary class choices. All she need really is one class through M!Kamui's secondary through marriage. She can be successful in every job you give her. She can even be an amazing berserker too, oddly enough, if you want another damage dealer. There's a reason why she's the only spotpass character, lol.

[mimasho]

Anyone know how viable Tsubaki!Shigure is as a rod knight vs. falcon warrior vs golden kite warrior ?

I usually like sticking units with their original line (Pegasus Warrior) but I already have Hinoka and Matoi as Falcon Warriors, and I probably plan on promoting Setsuna to Golden Kite Warrior; I don't have any rod knights at all ~

[HTakara82]

Anyone know how viable Tsubaki!Shigure is as a rod knight vs. falcon warrior vs golden kite warrior ?

I usually like sticking units with their original line (Pegasus Warrior) but I already have Hinoka and Matoi as Falcon Warriors, and I probably plan on promoting Setsuna to Golden Kite Warrior; I don't have any rod knights at all ~

Dump him on the side lines, he's pretty useless. His stat growths are just crap.

[Wayward Alchemist]

Anyone know how viable Tsubaki!Shigure is as a rod knight vs. falcon warrior vs golden kite warrior ?

I usually like sticking units with their original line (Pegasus Warrior) but I already have Hinoka and Matoi as Falcon Warriors, and I probably plan on promoting Setsuna to Golden Kite Warrior; I don't have any rod knights at all ~

With +0/+1/+4/+2/+0/+1/+0, Shigure would outclass his father in every way except in Defense as a Falcon Warrior, which isn't too much of a problem considering that it's a positive mod and Falcon Warriors shouldn't be getting hit anyways. However, with access to Sun God, Battle Command, Servant's Joy, Vantage, and Astra, he would make a good Butler, outclassing Felicia (Who could be made a Strategist if you wanted, however I'm not sure if I'd want her to be drawing up my battle plans) and Jakob (In Magic, Skill, Speed, Luck, Defense, and Resistance, at least).