Unit Optimization Thread

[HeoandReo]

Wait, I would like to confirm something. How does marriage seals and child inheritance work with the avatar's classes?

From what I understand it is something like this:

*If the Avatar mothers two children,(or fathers, in the case of Azura) both of them inherit Dark Prince/Princess, similar to how Morgan + sibling would both inherit Tactician access.

*The Avatar's spouse gets access to Avatar's chosen secondary class with Marriage Seal, as would Kanna's spouse and those who A+ with Kanna.

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Bovinian]

From what I understand it is something like this:

*If the Avatar mothers two children,(or fathers, in the case of Azura) both of them inherit Dark Prince/Princess, similar to how Morgan + sibling would both inherit Tactician access.

*The Avatar's spouse gets access to Avatar's chosen secondary class with Marriage Seal, as would Kanna's spouse and those who A+ with Kanna.

Regarding the first point, since Kanna has access to Dark Prince(ss) by default, he/she inherits Kamui's secondary class, whereas Kamui's other child can only Dark Prince(ss)

[TheWerdna]

Yeah, when I was listing the A+ supports I was mostly thinking of how it would benefit the characters in general. You're right in saying that Charlotte!Sophie only would really want Matoi as her A+, because of Fighter overlap. There are tons of variables in what each kid is able to get this time around

Sophie could also get access to Copycat from Silas A+ Kaze. Silas A+ options are much better than Jakob's imo, and that's one thing that Sophie can take fuller advantage of.

I'm not quite sure how Logbook skills work, or if they're going to be changed for other releases so I'm not taking it into consideration at this time. If it is how I've heard, then skills might just be a matter of creating a bunch of files to buy skills to fill in the gaps for the final kids.

And Leif, there's a google doc for the A+ supports on the first page. There should be a section that includes all the A+ options in one place, or at least that's what I'm working with.

You choose which characters are added to the logbook when you beat the game. So basically you just need a save file parked outside the final mission with no pairings, that way you can just get the skills you need for other playthroughs, beat the game, and rinse and repeat.

If eternal seals hard-cap at level 40, how do they work with promotion-less classes?

Also, Shigure really got the short end of the stick when it comes to 2ed gens. He only gets 2 classes regardless of father.

Edited July 7, 2015 by TheWerdna

[zoned out]

Also, Shigure really got the short end of the stick when it comes to 2ed gens. He only gets 2 classes regardless of father.

He doesn't get an inherited class? Assuming A+ing foleo doesn't give dark mage when using a buddy seal, that would mean he is stuck with Pegasus Knight, Rod Knight, and Samurai (A+ Hisame) as his stock classes. It's not a bad selection and he still has some flexibility since he could marry any second gen girl.

Edited July 7, 2015 by zoned out

[TheWerdna]

He doesn't get an inherited class? Assuming A+ing foleo doesn't give dark mage when using a buddy seal, that would mean he is stuck with Pegasus Knight, Rod Knight, and Samurai (A+ Hisame) as his stock classes. It's not a bad selection and he still has some flexibility since he could marry any second gen girl.

I believe he can't inherit Azura's class, so he just gets Pegasus warrior and whatever his father gets. Sure, he can still get a A+ class and a marriage class, but thats only 4 compared to most other kids who can get 5 classes total.

[Azz]

I believe he can't inherit Azura's class, so he just gets Pegasus warrior and whatever his father gets. Sure, he can still get a A+ class and a marriage class, but thats only 4 compared to most other kids who can get 5 classes total.

Shigure gets Rod Knight from Aqua for some reason.

[TheWerdna]

Shigure gets Rod Knight from Aqua for some reason.

Huh, interesting.

[Thane]

I don't know if this is the right thread to mention something like this, but I met a very tricky player in a My Castle fight today. She was paired up right from the get-go, and her Felicia had, if I recall correctly, Pavise, Aegis, Luna and Sol, whereas the main character had Hoshido, Nohr, Vantage and something else.

It was damn hard to bring her down I'll tell you what.

[Leif]

I don't know if this is the right thread to mention something like this, but I met a very tricky player in a My Castle fight today. She was paired up right from the get-go, and her Felicia had, if I recall correctly, Pavise, Aegis, Luna and Sol, whereas the main character had Hoshido, Nohr, Vantage and something else.

It was damn hard to bring her down I'll tell you what.

How the heck can you have both Hoshido AND Nohr on an Avatar? Is it, perhaps, third path shenanigans?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Leif

[Azz]

How the heck can you have both Hoshido AND Nohr on an Avatar? Is it, perhaps, third path shenanigans?

Buying skills.

(So OP)

I feel like I will be the only one not abusing this and simply using skills that units naturally have access to/marriage and buddy sealing.

[astrophys]

Perhaps it was logbook shenanigans… get Hoshido on the Hoshido path, then use the Logbook to teach it to a Nohr avatar on the Nohr path, or vice-versa.

Oh, I totally agree with Azz01's sentiment about only using skills naturally accessed through default classes, children class inheritance, marriage sealing, and buddy sealing.

Changing the topic:

Has anyone else figured out if the same inheritance rule that applies to Aqua's son (him getting Rod Knight) applies to other children she might have if the child of the man she marries also has Pegasus (this would most likely apply either to her marrying Tsubaki, who gives the Pegasus Warrior Matoi, or her marrying a male Kamui who had chosen Pegasus Warrior as his secondary class… just wondering, as just like in Awakening where replacement classes became a key part of breeding strategy at times, such information could be relevant… and this is probably not the only case where we might wonder if there is a replacement class of some sort.

Second question:

What do you think the best class, main-game and ending, for a Hinoka!Matoi is…. her father has poor growths, but her mother has good growths, and she herself has respectable personal growths, at least with regards to their sum totals, but looking at it a bit more closely they feel a bit weirdly distributed…. namely, largely thanks to Subaki's influence, but also her own base resistance, she seems to be quite slow and lacking in resistance for a typical pegasus knight:

Hinoka!Matoi, personal growths (assumption: growth inheritances assumed to function like Awakening's):

51.666% Hp, 36.666% Str, 16.666% Mag, 43.333% Skl, 35% Spd, 36.667% Lck, 38.333 Def, 21.666% Res

This means that once Pegasus Warrior's +15% Spd and +20% Res are factored in, she's still only hitting 50% Spd and 41.666% Resistance, which feels really slow for a Pegasus (e.g., Hinoka as a Pegasus Warrior gets [corrected] 60% (45% + 15%) speed growth and she gets 60% resistance growth)… of course, that's thanks to Subaki's genes…

Matoi's notable growth is that she has really high HP growth [not the highest when adjusted for parents, but up there for the Hoshido side]

I really like the pairing from a support standpoint and it gives a redhead Matoi (looking a bit like Cordelia), plus it gives her Lancefaire and Breaking sky….

I'm just trying to figure out: "What is the best way that I can make this unit work out? What is the most optimal way to handle this unit given the constraint of using this unit in the first place?"

Perhaps I'm being overly critical and she'll work fine as a Pegasus anyways… would Mirror Shield act as a sufficient endgame defense against magic despite her markedly lower resistance growth than what her mother has? Would the combination of swallow strike and perhaps Guard stance stat increases help her double enough with a 50% speed growth, or should I move her to an even faster class like her Father's Trueblade?

Or perhaps I should abandon the pretense of having her double and give her a more defensive build or a stat reducing build [putting her Strength, Speed, and Defense seals to work]?

I don't have the game yet, so I can theory craft al I want, but I don't have enough experience with the new systems and skills put in place in Fates, as well as its new maps and enemies, to really know what would be a "viable" build for her, in-game and post-game.

Edited July 7, 2015 by astrophys

[Bovinian]

I don't know if this is the right thread to mention something like this, but I met a very tricky player in a My Castle fight today. She was paired up right from the get-go, and her Felicia had, if I recall correctly, Pavise, Aegis, Luna and Sol, whereas the main character had Hoshido, Nohr, Vantage and something else.

It was damn hard to bring her down I'll tell you what.

> Luna and Sol on the same unit

Mark of a scrub, that's what it is

Does Kamui get access to Felicia's Pavise and Aegis in that scenario as well? Or only Luna/Sol?

[Thane]

> Luna and Sol on the same unit

Mark of a scrub, that's what it is

Does Kamui get access to Felicia's Pavise and Aegis in that scenario as well? Or only Luna/Sol?

She gets access to all of her active skills, and since she had Hoshido, she was pretty much always using a dangerous skill - I believe her Avatar also had Astra.

[astrophys]

By the way, is there a list of non-Avatar first gen buddy (A+) options?

You know, for Ryouma? Takumi? Hinoka? Sakura? etc. Whose class can they obtain?

It occurred to me that Hinoka gets two of the seals naturally via class change (Defense, Speed) and Tsubaki gets a third from class change (Strength). Both of those classes pass down to Matoi.

Matoi can marry a Dark Mage or buddy with a Dark Mage… for example, a male Kamui. Dark Knights, the upgrade of Dark Mage, get magic Seal.

Then, and here's the part I'm not sure of… whom can Hinoka buddy seal (A+) with? If Rinkah turned out to be an option (I have no idea if its possible), then Hinoka might be able to in that case to pick up Oni Savage and get Resistance Seal.

Assuming (and I also don't know if this is possible) that buddy sealed class skills can be inherited onto children, then you could possibly get a Matoi with all five of her slots filled with seals… not necessarily the best use of her, but a possibility….

Alternatively, if Hinoka doesn't work, any of these could also do the same, assuming that the mother had an A+ with Rinkah (which I don't know)

Oboro!Matoi marrying a male IF Oboro happens to support with Rinkah

Ryouma's son (Lancer + Ryouma's Samurai) inheriting Resistance Seal from a wife of Ryouma A+ ranked with Rinkah, then married to a female Dark mage (such as the female Kamui)

Hinata's son (he's a Samurai, right) with Oboro IF Oboro can A+ with Rinkah (which I don't know), inheriting Resistance Seal and marrying a female Dark Mage.

etc.

Do any of these possibilities work? Do these provide a way to get all five seals together on one unit on Hoshido to create a "super-sealer" if you wanted to?

[HeoandReo]

By the way, is there a list of non-Avatar first gen buddy (A+) options?

You know, for Ryouma? Takumi? Hinoka? Sakura? etc. Whose class can they obtain?

It occurred to me that Hinoka gets two of the seals naturally via class change (Defense, Speed) and Tsubaki gets a third from class change (Strength). Both of those classes pass down to Matoi.

Matoi can marry a Dark Mage or buddy with a Dark Mage… for example, a male Kamui. Dark Knights, the upgrade of Dark Mage, get magic Seal.

Then, and here's the part I'm not sure of… whom can Hinoka buddy seal (A+) with? If Rinkah turned out to be an option (I have no idea if its possible), then Hinoka might be able to in that case to pick up Oni Savage and get Resistance Seal.

Assuming (and I also don't know if this is possible) that buddy sealed class skills can be inherited onto children, then you could possibly get a Matoi with all five of her slots filled with seals… not necessarily the best use of her, but a possibility….

Alternatively, if Hinoka doesn't work, any of these could also do the same, assuming that the mother had an A+ with Rinkah (which I don't know)

Oboro!Matoi marrying a male IF Oboro happens to support with Rinkah

Ryouma's son (Lancer + Ryouma's Samurai) inheriting Resistance Seal from a wife of Ryouma A+ ranked with Rinkah, then married to a female Dark mage (such as the female Kamui)

Hinata's son (he's a Samurai, right) with Oboro IF Oboro can A+ with Rinkah (which I don't know), inheriting Resistance Seal and marrying a female Dark Mage.

etc.

Do any of these possibilities work? Do these provide a way to get all five seals together on one unit on Hoshido to create a "super-sealer" if you wanted to?

Out of those ones, the Oboro/Rinkah support and the Ryoma/Rinkah with Shinonome marrying Dark Mage(Ophelia) are the only ones that work. Rinkah's A+ options are actually kinda limited.

This page should contain all of the possible marriages and A+ supports.

Edited July 8, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Wayward Alchemist]

Ophelia..... With her personal skill and class, I would think she would want to be a Crit abuser, but none of the +Skl parents give her anything else she wants, and reduce something she does want. Camilla, Azura, and Felicia seem like the best for Nohr-

Camilla: +3/+1/+3/+1/+0/+2/+1 [Dark Mage, Samurai, Wyvern Rider]

Azura: +1/+2/+3/+3/+2/-2/+0 [Dark Mage, Samurai, Pegasus Warrior]

Felicia: -1/+4/+2/+1/+2/+0/+1 [Dark Mage, Samurai, Rod Knight]

[Bovinian]

It doesn't seem like there would be much point in making a super sealer unit when you can just have a dedicated debuffing Elite Ninja, with no special skills required. The S rank shuriken alone debuffs the equivalent of 4 seal skills, Str/Mag/Def/Res -6. Alternatively you could go Puppeteer for the extra movement and use any of the other shuriken, including the A rank one that attacks at 3 range. Spikes is also notable for absolutely destroying the enemy's speed and both defensive stats (all -8, though apparently this one can only be used at 1 range)

Edited July 8, 2015 by Bovinian

[Featherwick]

Ophelia..... With her personal skill and class, I would think she would want to be a Crit abuser, but none of the +Skl parents give her anything else she wants, and reduce something she does want. Camilla, Azura, and Felicia seem like the best for Nohr-

Camilla: +3/+1/+3/+1/+0/+2/+1 [Dark Mage, Samurai, Wyvern Rider]

Azura: +1/+2/+3/+3/+2/-2/+0 [Dark Mage, Samurai, Pegasus Warrior]

Felicia: -1/+4/+2/+1/+2/+0/+1 [Dark Mage, Samurai, Rod Knight]

After looking at the max stats, Elise could work, gives more magic, but lower basically everything than Felicia, but better growths.

For Hoshido Orochi is the only option. And while she does give good magic and skill she just murders Ophelia's speed. Which she does to every kid though. Honestly she's the hardest mother to pair, since there are so few magic users.

[Mox]

Hey Guys,

I'm not sure if this the place to ask this, if it isn't please direct me to the appropriate thread :) (I did some looking around but couldn't find any that were relevant).

I'm looking to optimally breed children in FEF.

I'm reasonably new to calculating mods and growth rates for child units. I've completed these tasks and have compiled an excel document based on all of these factors as well as considering who their parents are (I have yet to consider skills and class lines but will begin thinking about them shortly).

I was just wondering what factors might make one parent more favourable than another parent? Is there a checklist I can use to consider which parent might be better? Is there another thread with instructions and tips based on how to breed optimal children?

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks :D

[zoned out]

After looking at the max stats, Elise could work, gives more magic, but lower basically everything than Felicia, but better growths.

For Hoshido Orochi is the only option. And while she does give good magic and skill she just murders Ophelia's speed. Which she does to every kid though. Honestly she's the hardest mother to pair, since there are so few magic users.

Orochi!Ophelia might be an okay option. Have Ophelia marry Ignis, learn Defensive Formation and stick with Odin's Black Tome which has more four more might than Mjolnir and does x3 critical. Skill set can be Sorcerer with Vantage, Vengeance, Line of Death/Tomefaire, Awakening, Defensive Formation.

Base crit: 15 (assuming awakening calculation)

Sorc crit: 10

Blossoming Mind: 10

Odin's Black Tome: 20

Awakening: 30

Total: 85

If Harold's Unlucky Soul works in Guard Stance, than +15 to crit which could bump it up to 100%. With the highest Luck being 35 (basara and falcon) without modifiers, you'd be hitting crits at the minimum of 65%. The same skill set could be ran on Belka!Ophelia with less MAG and more DEF with the option of using Roundhouse through inheritance.

Edit: Something to consider is the future Witch class DLC which has better speed (34!), skill, magic, and +10 to crit and avoid so that Ophelia can double much more reliably than as a Sorcerer. S tomes too

Edited July 8, 2015 by zoned out

[TheWerdna]

So, I need some advice. I have worked out most of my pairings for my planned Nohr route, but I currently have 5 pairings left to do and am not sure who to put with who.

At this point the unpaired units are...

Males: Zero, Jakob, Leo, Kaze, and Arthur

Females: Felicia, Camila, Charlotte, Nyx, and Pieri

What would you guys recommend?

[Jayvee94]

If Anna's base growths are true., Anna!Kanna would be the best unit in game.

[Azz]

Hmmm.

Just references don't mind me:

Str, Mag, Skl, Spd, Luk, Def, Res

Zero:-2, --, -1, 3, --, --, 1

Jakob:2, -2, 2, --, -1, --, -1

Leo:-2, 2, --, -2, --, --, 2

Kaze:-2, --, 2, 3, -2, -1, 1

Arthur:1, --, 3, --, -3, 1, -1

Felicia:-2, 2, --, 1, --, -1, 1

Camilla:1, -1, 1, 1, -2, 1

Charlotte:3, --, --, 2, --, -2, -2

Nyx:--, 3, -2, 2, -1, -2, 1

Pieri:1, --, -1, 1, --, -2, 2

If I had the mods for the kids I could help more but here we go:

Zero would probably be best with Charlotte so at least Eponine has some good strength.I would recommend Berserker for eponine for that 41 Str.(You could also go Felicia for some one more Mag inclined or even Camilla)

Jakob would probably go with Nyx for a similar thing like Zero to counter act his -Mag mod and have Deere go Strategist but you could go Camilla for an offensive Deere(Like Wyvern Lord of something like that)

Leo would want someone magically inclined(That is not Nyx cause then Foleo would not get any new class), maybe Felicia could work(But no new class) or hell

Charlotte could work since she does not hurt his Mag mod.

Kaze needs someone who can fix his Str mod.Again Charlotte is decent but I like using Camilla for some reason.

I recommend Pieri for Arthur so Lutz gets Cav.Luz loses Arthur Cav since Arthur gives Wyven Rider and Fighter but Pieri can give Cav and therefore Luna.

[MeatOfJustice]

I decided to marry F!Kamui with Flannel on Nohr and make a Berserker Velour, can you help me choose my Asset and my Secondary Class (I'm between Samurai and Oni Savage)?

Max Stat modifiers:

Sr.Mg.Sk.Sp.Lk.Df.Rs.

8. 1. 1. 0. 0. 1. -1. +Str/-Def Kamui!Velour

6. 1. 3. 0. 0. 1. -1. +Skl/-Def Kamui!Velour

Growth Rates (Awakening Style):

HP% Str% Mag% Skl% Spd% Lck% Def% Res%

+Str/-Def: 51,6... 56,6... 10 35 40 35 41,6... 25

+Skl/-Def: 51,6... 53,3... 10 41,6... 40 35 41,6... 25

Max Stats:

HP/St/Mg/Sk/Sp/Lk/Df/Rs

70/48/26/33/33/25/28/24

70/46/26/35/33/25/28/24

Skills (No A+ or Child marriage involved):

[scavenger (25%)]

Axefaire

Nohr

Sol (33%+Str 35%+Skl)

Counter/Line of Death/Roundhouse

Ogre Strike/Line of Death/Roundhouse

Edited July 8, 2015 by MeatOfJustice

[astrophys]

I suddenly feel a bit better to see someone else coming up with entire sets of calculations of growths, mods, etc., for the child resultant from their preferred "waifu" or "husbando". Kind of like what I was doing with Matoi earlier…

I might suggest going with Oni Savage… .Samurai, Pegasus Warrior, and Ninja are already represented on the Nohr side (not only do you have Kaze as a Ninja, but Odin, Luna, and Lazward have Samurai, Pegasus, and Ninja as their secondary classes).

Yet, to my knowledge, I cannot currently thick of someone on Nohr who gives you Oni Savage naturally… certainly not someone who can breed with non-Avatars.

Berserkers get an inherent +20 critical bonus, and it makes sense to stack crit bonuses to make them as likely to occur as possible… particularly as the Berserker has poor crit evade itself and thus you want to try to finish off opponents on the first blow as much as possible.

Perhaps Berserker Inherent Crit + Killer Axe + Ogre Strike…. that's a 65% crit chance already before skill and enemy crit evade is accounted for. Arthur can also help you null out the enemy crit evade if he's standing nearby, or at least greatly reduce their crit evade. If you're willing to sacrifice some hit, you could even run Roundhouse alongside this to get around a 75% crit chance BEFORE your skill is accounted for… If crit works like Awakening, which I'm not sure, your skill might give you something like 15-17% extra…. I'll just say 15 as an approximation to make the numbers easy…. so you're easily getting to a 90% crit rate before crit evades.

I don't see a huge difference in outcomes between strength and skill here… you'll be getting tons of lethal critical hits either way.

-----

On a related point, does anyone want to recommend what asset/flaw or secondary I should take if I want to marry Hinoka!Matoi on Hoshido?

Her max stat mods: +1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res

Her growths, before class (Awakening style): 51.66% Hp, 36.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 43.33% Skl, 35% Spd, 36.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 21.66% Res

Her growths, Pegasus Warrior: 51.66% Hp, 46.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 50% Spd, 56.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 41.66% Res

Her growths, Falcon warrior: 51.66% Hp, 46.66% Str, 26.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 50% Spd, 56.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 41.66% Res

Estimated 20/20 stats:

If parents were 20/0 when she was recruited: 43 Hp, 27 Str, 13 Mag, 32 Skl, 34 Spd, 31 Lck, 24 Def, 29 Res

If parents were 20/20 when she was recruited:49 Hp, 29 Str, 17 Mag, 32 Skl, 34 Spd, 35 Lck, 29 Def, 34 Res

Values are calculated according to the base class information posted on this website last night.

Max possible stats after grinding and level cap raising, assuming Falcon Warrior:

55 Hp, 29 Str, 27 Mag, 32 Skl, 34 Spd, 35 Lck, 30 Def, 37 Res

Full class options on Matoi:

Falcon Warrior, Golden Kite Warrior, Trueblade, Weapons Master, Holy Lancer, Basara, promotions of husband's base class (not yet decided, please help me decide), promotion of buddy's base class (not yet decided).

Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna's classes:

White Blood [inherent], promotion of Kamui's secondary, other promotion of Kamui's secondary, Falcon Warrior [from Matoi], Golden Kite Warrior [from Matoi], promotions of her husband's base class, promotions of her buddy's base class.

Any suggestion of asset/flaw and secondary class I should pick?