Unit Optimization Thread

[mimasho]

Dump him on the side lines, he's pretty useless. His stat growths are just crap.

Oh really ? If you say so then ! * U * not super attached to him anyways ~

With +0/+1/+4/+2/+0/+1/+0, Shigure would outclass his father in every way except in Defense as a Falcon Warrior, which isn't too much of a problem considering that it's a positive mod and Falcon Warriors shouldn't be getting hit anyways. However, with access to Sun God, Battle Command, Servant's Joy, Vantage, and Astra, he would make a good Butler, outclassing Felicia (Who could be made a Strategist if you wanted, however I'm not sure if I'd want her to be drawing up my battle plans) and Jakob (In Magic, Skill, Speed, Luck, Defense, and Resistance, at least).

oooh I didn't even think about that possibility ! I haven't used Tsubaki at all, except when I wanted him to support with Aqua anyways ~

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into the Butler class some more ! * U *

[HeoandReo]

After overthinking it, I've come out with the idea that Orochi!Gurei is the best possible Copycat Healer that I could get.

Growth rates and Modifiers:

HP: 38,3% Str: 33,3%/ +2 Mag: 53,3%(this is the second highest Mag growth in the game for a 2nd Gen unit, bested only by Orochi!Syalla)/+4 Skl: 55%/+6 Spd: 30%/-3 Luck: 30%/0 Def: 33,3%/0 Res: 35%/0

Really, this Gurei is a beast. Saizou strangely has the second highest Mag growth rate among the males in the 1st Gen, with Leo having the highest. It really surprised me, expecially because Gaius's Mag growth in FE13 is only 15.

Orochi!Gurei has naturally access to Ninja, Samurai and Spellcaster, with the possibility to get Merchant and Great Merchant inheritance from Orochi(I think Household Cure is the best skill she can pass to him). He gets Rod Knight thanks to an A+ Support with Deere.

Talking about Skills, Sweet Tooth, Copycat and Servant's Joy are there. By marrying Matoi he gets access to Sun God, which coupled with Battle Command can help close allies, and Soar, which could offer him protection against pesky flying enemies which may try to attack him and his puppet. His class would be Strategist, since it has the same Mag cap as Exorcist and gives more mobility.

That took a lot of calculations. What do you think?

I was considering Orochi!Gurei as an attacker, but this is probably a much better way to use him, given his skills and that class set.

Only thing is that I would consider picking up Defensive Formation from the Logbook. (Gurei gets it from an A+ with Ignis or being mothered by Avatar) Strategist is a very squishy class, and with neutral defenses and -3 speed he does run the risk of getting severely damaged or one-rounded by particularly strong units. If he's not being used in an offensive manner, Defensive Formation to prevent death by doubling does seem like a good idea to me.

[AwakeningFates]

Anyone have any advice re what would be a good asset/flaw and second class for my femui if I'm going to marry her to Silas on the Hoshido path. I was thinking +speed -luck but luck seems to matter this time around and i don't know if a different asset would be better for Sophie/Kanna's stats. Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this.

[Soen]

Anyone have any advice re what would be a good asset/flaw and second class for my femui if I'm going to marry her to Silas on the Hoshido path. I was thinking +speed -luck but luck seems to matter this time around and i don't know if a different asset would be better for Sophie/Kanna's stats. Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this.

I think +SPD/-RES and Lance Fighter might be a good set, expecially if you want to marry Silas. He already has a huge number of procs, like Luna, Sol, Astra(A+ support with Ryoma), so Breaking Sky and Flamboyant are welcome additions. Otherwise you might give him both Swordfaire, Lancefaire and Defence/Speed Seal, making him a good damage dealer. Lance Fighter is one of the best class trees overall, and it will also benefit both Kanna and Sophie.

I was considering Orochi!Gurei as an attacker, but this is probably a much better way to use him, given his skills and that class set.

Only thing is that I would consider picking up Defensive Formation from the Logbook. (Gurei gets it from an A+ with Ignis or being mothered by Avatar) Strategist is a very squishy class, and with neutral defenses and -3 speed he does run the risk of getting severely damaged or one-rounded by particularly strong units. If he's not being used in an offensive manner, Defensive Formation to prevent death by doubling does seem like a good idea to me.

Yeah, given the skills, Orochi!Gurei is better as a support unit. You could turn him into an offensive mage, but Foleo and Ophelia are better for the job. Too bad Gurei can't marry Ophelia.

Yeah, Defensive Formation might be more useful than Battle Command in the end. One might say Sun God isn't a good skill, but if I stick Gurei and the puppet togheter they'll recover 40% of their HP every turn, which is worse than Renewal, but it affects all the allies nearby too.

We really need to make a tread for trading skills via My Castle once the game comes in the West.

Anna is pretty much the best, highest growth totals in the game, and great secondary class choices. All she need really is one class through M!Kamui's secondary through marriage. She can be successful in every job you give her. She can even be an amazing berserker too, oddly enough, if you want another damage dealer. There's a reason why she's the only spotpass character, lol.

Yeah, I think Bowman might do wonders for Anna. Lucky Seven, Raven Strike and Soar give her +90 hit against fliers, and Bowfaire helps her to deal more damage with the Shining Bow. She's a really solid unit, unlike her Awakening version.

[astrophys]

One thing I might caution, purely from a theory crafting standpoint, is that going +SPD/-RES is taking your already low RES stat (25% growths) and slashing it down to 15%…. which, while that's only a 10% subtractive reduction, is a 40% cut in the relative growth rates… i.e., you'll only get 60% of the resistance that you would have gotten otherwise….. oh, and you also get a -1 to starting res, which puts you in the hole even more…

Also, considering that the Hoshidan promotion, White Blood, only gets a grand total of 0% RES growth (and the base class Nohr prince only gets 5%), you'll looking at a starting 1 RES, +1 RES on promotion, 19 levels of 20% growth, and 19 levels of 15% growth, assuming 20/20… you'd be expected to end up with 8.65 RES by 20/20.

At least with a defense flaw, you already have a basic 35% growth before you asset the -10% penalty, so the fractional change isn't going to be as extreme. Kamui starts with a base of 6 defense, which becomes 5 with a defense flaw. Promotion form Nohr Prince(ss) to White Blood should yield +2 defense, comparing class base stats. Nohr Prince(ss) has a 10% defense growth, while White Blood has a 15% defense growth…. So 5 starting defense (6 -1 from defense flaw) + 2 from promotion + 19 levels of 35% growth, +19 levels of 40% growth = 21.25 defense expected.

Of course, the absolute changes are going to be similar either way: -1 from the flaw, and -10% over 38 levels, so you still end up taking 4.8 more damage by 20/20.

But the relative difference is such that:

13.45 RES vs. 8.45 RES --> -RES leaves you at 62.8% of the RES you would have had

26.05 DEF vs. 21.25 DEF --> -DEF leaves you at 81.6% of the DEF you would have had

Again, the absolute difference is the same, but -RES hurts you in a stat that you're already comparatively struggling with to begin with. The it becomes a value judgment or whether to shore this up or let it suffer for the benefit of other stats.

On a tangential note, against powerful single strikes, I anticipate -HP to be deadlier than -DEF… this is because if dealing with a strike that would OHKO you or come close to, survivability is essentially determined by the sum of Atk vs . HP + DEF (as if Atk - DEF > HP, you'd die).

Both -HP and -DEF flaws inflict -10% to their respective stat, which costs 3.8 stat points over 38 levels… but in the effects on base stats, -HP also gives -2 HP, while -DEF only gives -1 DEF…

So -HP, just in HP, costs you 5.8 points in the survivability threshold, whereas -DEF only costs you -4.8…

The above also ignores that -HP also inflicts -5% on DEF growth too, so that's 1.9 points of defense lost as well on an HP flaw…

So -HP costs you 7.7 points in single-hit survivability, whereas -DEF only costs -4.8 points.

[HTakara82]

Yeah, I think Bowman might do wonders for Anna. Lucky Seven, Raven Strike and Soar give her +90 hit against fliers, and Bowfaire helps her to deal more damage with the Shining Bow. She's a really solid unit, unlike her Awakening version.

Yeah if you wanna keep her purely on bows, getting her the archer line is a good way to go. Her magic cap as an Adventurer is good too, @ 32 with her cap modifier. meaning her base attack with the Shining Bow is 45, and then you just +5 with Bowfaire, and +10 with extravagance, and her base attack sky rockets to 60 MT a shot!, if that isn't beast, I don't know what is. Especially when most things have really low res, she can 1RKO units like Berserkers, Generals, and Great Knights with ease.

And just throwing in her ability to gain Copy Kat innately as well, that's just OP.

Edited July 12, 2015 by HTakara82

[AwakeningFates]

I think +SPD/-RES and Lance Fighter might be a good set, expecially if you want to marry Silas. He already has a huge number of procs, like Luna, Sol, Astra(A+ support with Ryoma), so Breaking Sky and Flamboyant are welcome additions. Otherwise you might give him both Swordfaire, Lancefaire and Defence/Speed Seal, making him a good damage dealer. Lance Fighter is one of the best class trees overall, and it will also benefit both Kanna and Sophie.

Thanks so much for the advice!

[astrophys]

Regarding Anna,

Just keep in mind that Berserkers cap out a 33 SPD (if you're considering stuff like PvP), so you need 38 speed (or things that boost your doubling ability so that your speed + doubling bonus equals 38) in order to double them.

But yes, they have at most 25 RES, so 60 Might gives you 35 damage…. if you could double them, you would deal 35 x 2 = 70 damage and thus kill them. The only trick is getting up that high…. maybe Guard Stance with a Speed boosting partner would help…

[HTakara82]

Regarding Anna,

Just keep in mind that Berserkers cap out a 33 SPD (if you're considering stuff like PvP), so you need 38 speed (or things that boost your doubling ability so that your speed + doubling bonus equals 38) in order to double them.

But yes, they have at most 25 RES, so 60 Might gives you 35 damage…. if you could double them, you would deal 35 x 2 = 70 damage and thus kill them. The only trick is getting up that high…. maybe Guard Stance with a Speed boosting partner would help…

Well was referring to her as an Adventurer, but 38spd? wha? considering the class with the highest speed are Elite Ninja's and True Blades with a cap of 35, and the majority of classes have somewhere between 27-30 speed cap. You don't need to have that kind of speed. The only way you can rely on doubling in PvP against 31+ speed classes is to use brave weapons. Or pairing up to get a speed boost. You can't rely on doubling, you need to rather rely on efficiency.

[astrophys]

Trueblade: 35 Speed

Blacksmith: 31 Spd

Holy Lancer: 32 Spd

Basara: 31

Exorcist: 32

Mountain Priest/War Priestess; 33

Falcon Warrior: 34

Golden Kite Warrior: 31

Holy Bowman: 33

Elite Ninja: 35

Nine Tailed Fox: 34, before stones

Dread Fighter; 31

Dark Blood: 32

Berserker: 33

Brave hero: 32

Bow Knight: 33

Adventurer: 34

Maid: 33

Those are some with caps above 30… Speed pair-up would likely help solve the problem, that said….

[HTakara82]

On a funny note, for Sorcs, even with +5 doubling mod for Excalibur, they still can't double a good chunk of units, and they'll end up giving +5 speed mod to someone with higher speed making them double them instead, lol. DON'T use excalibur in PvP, lol.

[Bovinian]

Well was referring to her as an Adventurer, but 38spd? wha? considering the class with the highest speed are Elite Ninja's and True Blades with a cap of 35, and the majority of classes have somewhere between 27-30 speed cap. You don't need to have that kind of speed. The only way you can rely on doubling in PvP against 31+ speed classes is to use brave weapons. Or pairing up to get a speed boost. You can't rely on doubling, you need to rather rely on efficiency.

Nah, there are a bunch of weapons as well as skills like Swallow Strike that make it easier for units to double. Also Anna has a speed mod of -1 while plenty of children (and Kamui) are capable of having +4 or higher speed mods. It might not necessarily be "common", but you'll see it happen.

Also if we're assuming units have capped defensive stats, believe it or not, Res caps are slightly higher on average than Def caps across all classes in this game. Mindblowing I know.

[Soen]

Or you can just run a Defensive Formation/Pavise/Axebreaker/Sol/Strength Seal General with a Reverse Naginata and say fuck it.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Soen

[astrophys]

Generals cannot equip swords and thus cannot use Reverse Katana… but they could use other reverse or warrior weapons.

Oh: And Swallow Strike + Excalibur Sorcerer, ignoring any speed modifiers, gets an effective attack speed for doubling purposes of 29 + 5 + 5 = 39. They can double anything with 34 speed or less.

Granted, they can also BE doubled by anything with 29 speed or more, but the trick is to only use Excalibur when the enemy cannot hit you in a counter attack (i.e, they have a 1 range weapon and you attack from 2 range, or they have a 2 range weapon like most bows and you attack from 1 range). Oh, and of course, when you can make sure than you aren't putting yourself in range of other enemies or that at least said enemies will get killed before their turn by your other allies.

Well, that situation, or, even if they can fight back, if you can survive the first hit at -5 Def/Res and can then kill them on the second before they get their double (second hit), it still might be worth it on player phase… after all, you attack, they attack, you attack, they attack in the case of mutual doubling.

Oh, and a +MAG asset would let an Excalibur Sorc double anything with 36 speed or less (as it gets +2 speed over default). It would be doubled by anything with 31 speed or more. If boosted by Rally Speed or a similar boost, they double enemies with speeds a high as 40 and would need the enemy to have 35 speed to be doubled by them.

Edited July 12, 2015 by astrophys

[Bovinian]

Speaking of Sorcerers, it's really sad how they will be completely and utterly outclassed by Witches when their DLC is released. Same HP cap, both can use S rank tomes, but Sorcerer has 35 Magic, 26 Skill, and 29 Speed, compared to Witch's 36 Magic, 27 Skill and 34 Speed. Not to mention Witch's broken ass skills like Warp and Witch's Cauldron. Seriously what the fuck?

[HTakara82]

Nah, there are a bunch of weapons as well as skills like Swallow Strike that make it easier for units to double. Also Anna has a speed mod of -1 while plenty of children (and Kamui) are capable of having +4 or higher speed mods. It might not necessarily be "common", but you'll see it happen.

Also if we're assuming units have capped defensive stats, believe it or not, Res caps are slightly higher on average than Def caps across all classes in this game. Mindblowing I know.

That is true, RES caps are higher this time around vs DEF, but most people won't even reach it without a ton of work though. too many units require like level 80+ just to hit their res caps. The same can be said about def too. And most units that do have reasonably good Res, have slow speed, meaning Anna can double with the Shining bow against them. Let's say her setup is with as mentioned above, 60 base MT targeting Res, and someone has 30 to 35 RES, she'll still 1RKO, if their speed is insufficient.

Swallow strike is indeed an amazing skill, but I wouldn't rely on the weapons too much, they act as a double edge blade, as the weapons that give +5 to doubles gives the opponent +5 as well, making them able to double you too. So you better hope you have better accuracy and can finish them off first.

Or you can just run a Defensive Formation/Pavise/Axebreaker/Sol/Strength Seal General with a Reverse Katana and say fuck it.

lol, so true. Just wall them the crap out lol.

[astrophys]

Excalibur has 90 accuracy and 25 crit. Its one of the more accurate tomes out there.

[HTakara82]

Excalibur has 90 accuracy and 25 crit. Its one of the more accurate tomes out there.

With -20 avoid to a class that already have crap avoid OTL

[astrophys]

The idea with a Swallow Strike Sorc with Excalibur (or a Holy Bowman with the S-rank bow) would be to use it only when the enemy cannot fight back.

-20 Avoid doesn't matter if your Sorc is attacking a Brave-Axe wielding Berserker from 2 spaces away, for example. Since the enemy doesn't get to counterattack in this situation, Excalibur's drawbacks wouldn't matter.

[HTakara82]

The idea with a Swallow Strike Sorc with Excalibur (or a Holy Bowman with the S-rank bow) would be to use it only when the enemy cannot fight back.

-20 Avoid doesn't matter if your Sorc is attacking a Brave-Axe wielding Berserker from 2 spaces away, for example. Since the enemy doesn't get to counterattack in this situation, Excalibur's drawbacks wouldn't matter.

it's true, that it's best to keep them attacking enemies that can retaliate but, it's no holds bar when it comes to enemy phase. It doesn't hold much ground in enemy phase.

[Soen]

Yeah, I wrote Katana and meant Naginata. Edited ~

Does anyone know if the bow Skadi can be found during the main story or is something DLC only? Because 1-4 range and +20 Crit Evade is something that would help A LOT against Zerkers.

[astrophys]

Its a weapon used by a boss.

[Soen]

Oh. It's enemy only, then? What a pile of crap. Not only they remove the Longbow and they give us that useless Expert Bow(5 Mt, 3 range only and no doubling? Really IS?), but the OP bow isn't even available. I was already thinking about OP Kisaragi...

[HTakara82]

Oh. It's enemy only, then? What a pile of crap. Not only they remove the Longbow and they give us that useless Expert Bow(5 Mt, 3 range only and no doubling? Really IS?), but the OP bow isn't even available. I was already thinking about OP Kisaragi...

It's good for balancing, at least Anna got a good magic bow with 13 MT and 1-2 range, lol *cough*

[Dämonplay]

You are a couple days off because of work and then suddenly everybody talks about how overused Copycat Puppet is. I think the more people run copycat puppet the more will run puopet breaker. Then nobody will use more than one copycap user cause u are fucked otherwise. And I think you shouldn't use more than one copycat user. I think it works best as a gealer. And as I already mentioned I love Anna in this regard:

-Servant's joy

-Battle Command

-Effective Medicine

-Copycat Puppet

-Rally Skill

This gives +8Skill which can help a lot for lethality builds. I still don't know how you should stop them. Ironically I and another user were the first on serenes whi talked about that. It's spreading. Also it provides +4 damage and -4damage for allies around. And with servant's joy and effective medicine you can really good support 3 units in one turn.

and all that witjout buying skills or marry her to the avatar

Edited July 12, 2015 by Dämonplay