Concerning the quality of Fates

[warchiefwilliams]

As someone living outside of Japan and who doesn't speak/read Japanese, I have been doing my best to ignore any and all spoilers or other indicators about the quality of this game as I want it to be a new experience. However, it has gotten to the point where I feel like I need to at least assess the quality of the product that IS has delivered to ensure my limited disposable income won't be wasted on something I won't enjoy, especially as I am beginning to hear more and more disgruntled rumbles from this forum and the internet at large.

So, please permit me to ask a few questions to those who have played the game through to completion (at least one storyline). Please avoid spoilers if possible.

• Gameplay
  • Has it been improved over Awakening in terms of offering a strategic and tactical challenge?
  • Do the Honshido weapons (Katanas, e.c.t) break balance due to their stats buffs compared to the Nohr ones? This is just a fear of mine since I saw that those weapons do boost stats.
  • Is the gameplay as grindy as Awakening or is it possible to ignore gridding points and just focus on the story?

SPEAKING OF STORY:

• Story/Supports/Characters
  • I have heard grumbling regarding the quality of Nohr's storyline. Is it superior to or worse than Awakening and why?
  • Does Honshido's story offer a better/more satisfying conclusion to Nohr? (I hope not, I still find something morally wrong with supporting them)
  • Character quality. Are they one-dimensional cardboard cutouts, or are they fleshed-out individuals? (goes for both supports and story)
  • I have heard grumbling saying that it seems like everything is being saved for the Third Path. For those of you who have played it, does it seem like IS saved everything for that path?
  • Is Kamui a good character? Player avatars always run the risk of being incredibly bland or Mary-Sue-ie. Does Kamui avoid that pitfall or is he/she just another self-insert?

I think that's it for now. For those of you who respond to this avalanche of questions, thanks in advance.

[DualMix]

I'll answer a select few since I would explode at answering them all.

Gameplay has improved, at least to me. The maps can get pretty big and the transition to battle is obviously better. The music is amazing, I love it, especially during Chapter 0(won't spoil it but the music is great.) It can get grinding heavy depending on what kind of a run you want and stuff. The game focuses on the story and the gameplay equally, at least to me it does, so it's fun to play.

Nohr's story is mediocre to me, but don't take my word for it. They can still change some gritting parts during the localization to make them slightly better. It's not as good as Awakening's but even then, Awakening's wasn't that good either. Hoshido to me was a lot more fun then Nohr for multiple reasons. The characters are fun, the story is great, and I love samurai and ninjas.

Characters are pretty fun, some better then Awakening characters. I love Hinata cause he's funny, especially in his support with FeMui! cause of stuff.

The Third Path? It's fine. Yeah, IS was like "Fuck it" and sent it a bit to the third path and while that may be gritting to some players since they wanted their own favorited paths to be more then what it is, I have no problem with it. Supports between certain characters that you couldn't get otherwise is fun and nice.

Kamui? I like Kamui. Kamui is fun and I would say better then Robin. His customization is much better and his character isn't annoying. At least, not to me.

That's about it. If I had to rate this game... eh.... just the smallest bit below 9/10. Nohr was a letdown and there are some other stuff that I don't like -cough-Awakening inserts-cough-

Edited July 1, 2015 by DualMix

[blah the Prussian]

Wait, the story was worse than Awakening? Shit.

[DualMix]

Wait, the story was worse than Awakening? Shit.

Well maybe I was being a bit harsh. It really does come down to personal opinion so I'd just wait until the English release to make a final statement. Plus I'm biased towards Hoshido cause it's my favorite out of the routes, so take my words with a grain of salt for now.

[Leif]

Please, please... no...

Here I was hoping Nohr was the better story. UGH. Well, if Nohr is a total letdown, at least I get to bang Zero see what interesting map objectives there are.

As the other members said, we'll have to wait to see how the English localization handles the story. I just got back from reading the Amazon reviews topic, and now I am a little concerned. I know not to take Amazon reviews seriously, but it is still unsettling.

THIS GAME.... why is it taking me on an emotional roller coaster?! I just want it to be good... :(

[Othin]

Gameplay is definitely improved. Weapons are fine; the stat boosts are generally within reason. Except on Ryouma's sword but everything about both him and his sword is just ridiculously overpowered. Awakening's gameplay wasn't grindy in the first place so I don't know what you're talking about but yes you can easily ignore it in Hoshido and of course you don't even have the option in Nohr.

Don't know as much about story; it seems okay but with some issues. Weird character outfits make it hard to take things seriously and apparently there are some issues with the supports. I haven't played the Third Path and I'm avoiding info about it until I get through Nohr and tackle it myself.

[Awakener_]

I do agree on Hoshido's story being better, but Nohr's characters is way better than that of Hoshido's especially the Nohrian royal siblings. These European style armory design are also very appealing. As for the comparison to Awakening's story, I think all Fire Emblem's plots in general suck so there that and this one included.

[Kirokan]

Gameplay: There is plenty more variety in Nohr, and will certainly provide a challenge at lower difficulties than Awakening did.

I didn't feel like any balance was really broken nor was there much issue in Hoshido weapons VS Nohr ones.

Nope, not as grindy at all. Nohr does not even give grinding opportunities, so plays like a classic FE game in that sense that the EXP and funds you get are from playing the chapters.

Story:

Nohr's story has an entire thread dedicated to exploring it's flaws, the majority of the opinions consider Hoshido to have the better story. I vouched for the points that were brought up. I understood 80-90% of the dialogue, so I could support saying that the translations would not really help the story, unless the localization changed the actual plot --which they would not.

Hoshido has a more satisfying conclusion than Nohr, and overall is done better, with more emotional moments. However, there are still unanswered things on both paths, likely left for the potentially "end all be all" third path the game seems to be pushing for. Nohr has a better variety of characters that fits the aesthetic of Fire Emblem more, however. The Royal Siblings on Nohr are more interesting than those on Hoshido, but overall story goes to Hoshido.

Yes, definitely, IS seems to be pushing for third path at this moment. We are hoping it is not any more "canon" than others, but...

Kamui did not appeal to me (and others) as much as some of the other characters in the game. Ironically, they had better flow and development on the Hoshido path than the "deeper, darker" Nohr one. They are not really a Mary-Sue in some senses, but I guess you can consider them to be such in other cases.

Please, please... no...

Here I was hoping Nohr was the better story. UGH. Well, if Nohr is a total letdown, at least I get to bang Zero see what interesting map objectives there are.

As the other members said, we'll have to wait to see how the English localization handles the story. I just got back from reading the Amazon reviews topic, and now I am a little concerned. I know not to take Amazon reviews seriously, but it is still unsettling.

THIS GAME.... why is it taking me on an emotional roller coaster?! I just want it to be good... :(

As I say to others, I do not think the localization can "fix" the story no matter what they do with the dialogue, unless they literally change the story, which as far as localization is concerned, they do not do. I am sure they could attempt to make justified reasoning for this and that, but that would be quite the uphill battle that destroys the meaning from the original game and brings in all sorts of complications.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Kirokan

[Thane]

The gameplay is fantastic although a few map gimmicks are a bit obnoxious. Regardless, it's a definite improvement - if you don't care a lot about the story or characters, you definitely won't be disappointed.

You can just focus on the story; I ignored the kids entirely on the first run, for instance.

Nohr's story is pretty damn bad and worse than Awakening. While Awakening felt incohesive and occasionally poorly explained, it can't compare to Nohr's artificially created length, stupid characters, character REGRESSION, character incoherence (noticing a trend yet?) and overall waste of fantastic potential. Thankfully, the Hoshido path is better.

Everything is being saved for the third path - like, it's pathetic how little we get to know about anything during the two original routes. It also seems like it might be "THE" route, making the other two obsolete barring map variety and difficulty.

Kamui is worse than Robin. I'd even go as far as to claim they're far worse.

My Japanese is not good enough to comment on the quality of characters in detail, but there are definitely some very good ones and charming supports, and some characters which I just dislike. In Awakening, I only didn't care about the worst characters, here I actually don't like a few. the Nohr characters are also a bit more interesting in general. Adding to this, and this is my opinion which seems to be in the minority, the character design in general is just uninspired and...bad.

That's about as vague as I can be without spoiling anything.

[Fandangox]

What I am mostly interested in is in how does it fare gameplaywise. I really disliked Awakening in that regard. Nohor's story being apparently bad is disappointing, but I wont mind if the gameplay in itself is good.

It doesn't even need to be "hard" I really appreciated PoR and RD's smart level design and objectives even if it was really easy to get overpowered units.

[MCProductions]

Eh, so long as the plot gets where it's going, I don't mind if Nohr's is worse than Awakening's.

Course I liked Awakening's plot so....

I've heard great things about Nohr's gameplay, and so long as the plot doesn't resort to asspulls as often as RD,hate that games plot, I'm still over hyped for Nohr.

[Icy Toast]

As other people have already said, the gameplay is excellent and has definitely improved from Awakening, but the story... not so much.

Character quality. Are they one-dimensional cardboard cutouts, or are they fleshed-out individuals? (goes for both supports and story)

The characters are a mixed bag, really. There are a lot one-dimensional characters in the supporting cast, and some of them can get really annoying really quickly if you don't like their respective gimmicks, but fortunately the royal siblings are (in my opinion at least) generally pretty decent characters. That does not include Nohr-Kamui, by the way.

It's also worth mentioning that the game looks, feels and sounds absolutely amazing, and while Awakening's presentation was quite good as well, Fates has definitely managed to surpass it.

[MCProductions]

So in other words, story is about on par with Awakening, while everything else surpasses it.

I believe you just sold me a copy of the game.

[Iron Griffin]

I'll have to reserve all judgment of the games until its official release here in the states.

I am interested in all three routes and yes despite what I learned I will still give Conquest a fair chance. I want the full experience.

I find hard to believe that there are any folks that can call Awakening's story good I think its at best passable but its certainly consistent.

From a presentation stand point Fates is definitely better than Awakening though.

[DualMix]

So in other words, story is about on par with Awakening, while everything else surpasses it.

I believe you just sold me a copy of the game.

Thank you for your purchase, and have a nice day!

But yeah, it's an improvement from Awakening which is fantastic. And the other routes are awesome so even the story is better.

[Leif]

DAMN IT. I didn't want goody-two-shoes Hoshido to be superior to Nohr, in terms of the story.

I'll still start with Nohr because the ascetic is much more appealing to me.

Looks like I will be playing the Third Path the most.

Now that I noticed that Nohr story thread in this forum (I'm not going anywhere near it) and read Kirokan's comment, I'll have to lower my expectations, again...

You let me down Shin Kibayashi... I wanted Nohr to be better than Hoshido.

Welp, Zero is the redeeming factor for Nohr, for me I guess, and it's only because I can marry him.

I should write a review of the game when it comes out, so I share with you guys how it shapes up according to my very high standards...

Edited July 1, 2015 by Leif

[Thane]

Now that I noticed that Nohr story thread in this forum (I'm not going anywhere near it)

That hurts man, that hurts right in the kokoro.

[warchiefwilliams]

DAMN IT. I didn't want goody-two-shoes Hoshido to be superior to Nohr in terms of the story.

My thoughts exactly. I was looking forward to playing a fire emblem game as the bad guys, trying to reform them even as they commit atrocities around you. Quite the waste of an excellent synopsis.

Good to hear that the gameplay is solid though. That is always nice to hear.

That hurts man, that hurts right in the kokoro.

Sorry to say that I feel the same way. We all appreciate your work, but if Nohr does end up being dissapointing, I much rather experience for myself than spoil if for myself.

[Leif]

That hurts man, that hurts right in the kokoro.

Sorry to break your heart, but I want a fresh, relatively unspoiled experience when I play the game.

Don't you worry, if Nohr's story angers me, I'll be sure to write a lengthy review. Muhahahahaha! *thunder claps*

Man, I love using bold text, underscores, and italics.

Jokes aside, I appreciate your work, but I don't want a repeat of Awakening. Knowing the entire story sullied (pun intended) my Awakening experience.

[BlueL]

Kamui is worse than Robin. I'd even go as far as to claim they're far worse.

My Japanese is not good enough to comment on the quality of characters in detail, but there are definitely some very good ones and charming supports, and some characters which I just dislike. In Awakening, I only didn't care about the worst characters, here I actually don't like a few. the Nohr characters are also a bit more interesting in general. Adding to this, and this is my opinion which seems to be in the minority, the character design in general is just uninspired and...bad.

That's about as vague as I can be without spoiling anything.

Coming from someone who shares a similar opinion on Awakening's supports, I'm glad to hear this.

But if you don't mind me asking, what didn't you like about Robin? I hear a lot of people say they dislike him/her but I've never heard anything besides "he's boring". FYI I'm neutral on Robin. Wasn't fond of him, but nowhere near disliking him.

[Laie]

Yup for story I feel pretty much what everyone is saying,Nohr for me is way worse than Awakening,especially the second half.

I am actually surprised to find out that as much as someone who usually doesn't care that much about the main story in a fire emblem game,this one with Nohr is really distracting me from the amazing level designs overall.

[Leif]

Yup for story I feel pretty much what everyone is saying,Nohr for me is way worse than Awakening,especially the second half.

I am actually surprised to find out that as much as someone who usually doesn't care that much about the main story in a fire emblem game,this one with Nohr is really distracting me from the amazing level designs overall.

Holy cow. More and more are saying Nohr is bad. I am eager to get my hands on it and see why the story is bad.

WELP, at least there is the other 2/3 of the game, ahahaha...

Maybe putting the three stories together makes a good story...? *awkward thumbs up*

...

I am just so glad Zero is on the third path. I would be terribly sad if he weren't...

[Bovinian]

This news that Nohr has a worse story than Awakening is seriously baffling and upsetting. For all the effort that went into the story this time around (especially emphasized in the Iwata Asks interview), how does it end up becoming that bad? I haven't played it myself but I believe those of you who have, so what's the deal here? Is it simply because they're saving all of the good stuff for the third path? Does it seem like there may have been executive meddling involved? Is it possible to give a reasonable answer to this question without story spoilers?

[Thane]

This news that Nohr has a worse story than Awakening is seriously baffling and upsetting. For all the effort that went into the story this time around (especially emphasized in the Iwata Asks interview), how does it end up becoming that bad? I haven't played it myself but I believe those of you who have, so what's the deal here? Is it simply because they're saving all of the good stuff for the third path? Does it seem like there may have been executive meddling involved? Is it possible to give a reasonable answer to this question without story spoilers?

Without spoiling anything, it is indeed as you say: all of the good stuff is being saved for the third path. At this point in time it looks like there's absolutely zero reason to play through the other two routes for anything other than different levels of difficulty and map variety.

However, that is obviously not the only reason why Conquest is worse in terms of story.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Thane

[Airship Canon]

Can't say I was expecting ANY good out of the story for either.

I mean "Hey, we're bringing in notable author X!"

Been there, seen that...

We meet again, Ace Combat Assault Horizon. And I still hate you.