Fire Emblem: Fates - Complete Story Discussion

[Thane]

Having two or three separate routes each leading towards the same confrontation doesn't rub well with me and with what they've got going for the gameplay and differences between campaigns, a single one would ruin that part of it.

Story-wise when there's mutually exclusive paths I don't see the desire to always want to knock off big bad as the final boss in the same kind of confrontation at the end of all routes while considering the possibilities and endings were you don't kill it off as incomplete(regardless of writing quality). There's tendency for RPGs with choices(probably to appease everyone avoid this "complete route" argument), games proposed to have a variety of possibilities to just end up converging towards a single end(or rarely diverging regardlss of what you do) making what occured inbetween seem rather arbitrary.

When it comes to choices I think it's more interesting to see "where will this choice lead?" rather than fret whether or not you'll get to face the "true final foe" in choice X, Y and Z or making a big deal whether what you picked was the "really real canon this actually happened" route rather than just one of a number of possibilities.

I definitely see where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent, but to me the key difference is that in the other two paths, you essentially fall for the big bad's manipulation.

Now, I don't want all the endings to be good or end in similar ways like Birthright and Conquest did, but the thought of having two de facto wrong options and one correct rubs me the wrong way. This is why I believe the game would've been better off without Hydra, or a mastermind behind the entire conflict. Like I said in the original post, I don't see why Garon couldn't have been the big bad instead, and the two routes dealing with him in different ways, preferably as the final boss in the Hoshido route and early on in Conquest.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Thane

[Iron Griffin]

Another problem I think some folks are forgetting is....

The fact that both Conquest and Birthright pretty much end the same way with some variations: You lose two siblings on the side you did not choose, Garon is beaten, and you lose Azura/Aqua no matter what you do throughout either route this conclusion is inevitable which to me kind of defeats the purpose of buying both of them for a lot of folks. Your adventure might have some differences here and there but the showdown and the results are way too God damn similar...

[IceBuster573]

I rather liked Hinoka's support conversations. Kamui support especially where she shared her feelings about Mikoto. I didn't expect all of the siblings to get an equal role in the narrative since I thought the main focus to be just Kamui and Azura with the rest of the royal siblings playing a role to what Lucina and at the very least Frederick got.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Like all these nitty bitty details are quite interesting though.

For example, the comments about the Faceless being a "Nohrian invention", while I more or less guessed it and knew, it was still interesting to see it for myself and see what the characters had to say. Additional things being the "hints" or so towards the Invisible Kingdom, aside from the obvious fact of purple units.

Still, it's mostly plot magic. Speaking of actual magic, apparently when they said Ryoma and Takumi disappeared, they literally got "magicked" disappeared, or at least that's what I'm reading. Also, interesting to see that the "Faceless" you fight prior to the Wind Village map apparently are the Wind Tribe soldiers, which I never knew. Fricking Nohr hax magic

[Alazen]

Since we're going over how shoddy Fates' writing is, I'll point out how the war between the two kingdoms managed to be less muddy than the conflict between Manster and Thracia.

The Judgral games noted that Manster had tariffs on crops sent to Thracia which happened to be abused by Manster nobles. It was also notes Quan was a pain to his allies, ordered border raids, and ultimately continued the bloodshed.

Hoshido VS Nohr? Well, no. Fates didn't really do a good job (if at all) presenting Hoshido with the issues pre-Meiji Japan had (the Sengoku shenanigans, expansionism under Hideyoshi, oppressing a minority of worshipers, etc.) that could have served to muddy the waters. Especially considering how Iago, Ganz, and Fake Garon are puppy kickers while the actual Garon is underexplored.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Alazen

[CyborgZeta]

I don't hate Nohr's plot, but I had issues with it.

All the routes disappointed me in terms of plot, if I'm being honest. Hoshido was pretty standard, with the only emotional moments being the opposing siblings. Nohr was something different, but went about things in a weird manner. Invisible does stuff like dumping massive amounts of exposition at the beginning and then hand-waving the reason for not doing so before by citing Fight Club.

If I had to rank them, I'd go Invisible > Nohr > Hoshido, but the last two might as well be irrelevant, really.

[B.Leu]

Well, for someone who's not eloquent, you are very eloquent actually.

Hmm, I don't really agree with you about the choice. I thought it was stupid.
The choice is basically everybody saying, 'We're your real family', and that's it, not any arguments, no anything just that.

Even the third path is basically Kamui saying 'we shouldn't fight, we can work together', how about bringing up some arguments sometime ? Like 'hey, you lied to me all of my life', 'are you sure you are not hidding something from me ?', something, instead of playing the goody two shoes. It doesn't help that your families are just so stuborn for no reason. Bah.

I also don't like how the game have to make you feel bad. I don't care about 99% of Hoshido or it's characters, I choosed Nohr, because I gave a damn about Nohr's characters. I don't care if Sakura is crying because her soldiers are killed. If the game put into my face 'oh it's sad, I'm sorry lalala...', something like that, the game is telling me what to feel, and to me It's bad writing as it's finest.

.... Well, what I do care however, is when Ganz and Iago kill people just for the evulz, it was just so freaking stupid.

It's even worse when the game is basically saying: Hoshido => Good guys, your true family, well not really but this will never be developed as it should be, you should join them. Nohr => Bad guys, not your true family, you shouldn't join them.

I haven't played the Third path yet, just read the summary, but it is apparently the same if not worse, since it will still guilt-trip you for not choosing anyone, despite them swinging weapon at me and not listening to pretty much anything. And some people wonder why I would ever want to kill those idiots.

I should be feeling bad, not KamuI, and the story should never tell me what to feel. Especially if it's that obvious or dumb.

I said it again, a path where I could kill them all, or a real independent path, would've been great..

Sooo, that's the third path excuse ? If you talk about Touma, you're tranformed into foam ? How. Freaking. Convenient...

I don't dislike Aqua, but damn, dat walking plot device.

Oh yeah, am I the only who find Lilith's death in Nohr stupid ? Just asking now that I think about it.

Edited July 17, 2015 by B.Leu

[Ryo]

Lilith's death is stupid, unnecessary, and anti-climatic in both routes. I actually find it hilarious rather than sad.

[Thane]

Lilith's death is stupid, unnecessary, and anti-climatic in both routes. I actually find it hilarious rather than sad.

I expected her to play some part in the third route, since she actually dies in both Birthright and Conquest...but no, she just disappears, much like Garon. It seems as if though several people in the story exist only to be used and/or thrown away whenever the plot demands it, or to borrow B.lue's words, they feel like "walking plot devices".

It's too bad, I really liked Lilith's human design, but every design I like in this game comes with some sort of baggage.

[Ryo]

Well, her sole role in the story is to explain how the protagonist gets access to My Castle which exists in another dimension (and possibly some other teleportation shenanigans during the gameplay and story which can be considered plot convenience). But after that she becomes completely irrelevant to the story until her death, when she comes out of literally nowhere to shield Kamui. That scene would be much less awkward if she accompanied you during your journey and you can feel her presence. Her death also had no effect on your gameplay, so it felt even more forced and unnecessary.

Meanwhile, I can be wrong about this, but the origin of Lilith and the star dragons, their roles in this particular universe, and their relations with other dragons and the humans have never been properly touched upon on any of the paths. It feels like they exist for the sake of existing, just like the under-developed side-countries and the history/backstory of this continent as a whole.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Ryo