Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)

[NekoKnight]

I am so sad that the sisters are so underused. They don't even get their own personal weapons. Camilla should be more like

Sialeeds from Suikoden V,

(Suikoden V spoiler)

in that she recognizes the danger of Nohr's darker elements and uses subtle manipulative tactics to limit their influence, before outright removing them during the civil war.

Or just giving her any kind of personality outside of "I loooooove Kamui!" would be a start.

And I have to admit that I have grown a bit fond of my idea of a rebel Queen Hinoka.

Good ideas, particularly the last one. It could make for a good story if after Hoshido is conquered, Hinoka escapes and leads a rebellion. After Ryoma and Takumi are executed, Hinoka becomes queen and the rebellion (both from the Hoshido forces AND from Kamui's Nohr faction) can really get started.

[Thane]

Good ideas, particularly the last one. It could make for a good story if after Hoshido is conquered, Hinoka escapes and leads a rebellion. After Ryoma and Takumi are executed, Hinoka becomes queen and the rebellion (both from the Hoshido forces AND from Kamui's Nohr faction) can really get started.

But that would involve Hinoka doing something, and that's strictly forbidden.

[Yari]

People should stop bringing up Ryoma getting... executed. Seriously stop. Hinoka is one of the characters that is in need of a change. She has a good enough personality but she does nothing for the storyline and is an afterthought in all the routes.

[Nanima]

My only current problem with this scenario is what to do with the remaining sibling. If Ryouma (sorry Yari) and Takumi are executed and Hinoka becomes the rebel leader, than Sakura is left out. If Ryouma (again, sorry Yari) and Sakura die and Hinoka becomes rebel queen, Takumi needs something to do. It would be awkward for them to stand in the background and do nothing besides supporting Hinoka.

Or we could have everyone except Hinoka die, but that feels like overkill and a waste of a potential character.

[Nanima]

My only current problem with this scenario is what to do with the remaining sibling. If Ryouma (sorry Yari) and Takumi are executed and Hinoka becomes the rebel leader, than Sakura is left out. If Ryouma (again, sorry Yari) and Sakura die and Hinoka becomes rebel queen, Takumi needs something to do. It would be awkward for them to stand in the background and do nothing besides supporting Hinoka.

Or we could have everyone except Hinoka die, but that feels like overkill and a waste of a potential character.

[Yari]

My beloved Ryoma-kun! Yeah killing everyone but Hinoka does feel like a waste. I think Sakura should be kept alive because then you could have the possibility of her trying to take responsability and try to solve things in a diplomatic way something Takumi wouldn't do. I'm so glad I'm going for a different thing and I don't have to suffer throught this decision.

[NekoKnight]

My only current problem with this scenario is what to do with the remaining sibling. If Ryouma (sorry Yari) and Takumi are executed and Hinoka becomes the rebel leader, than Sakura is left out. If Ryouma (again, sorry Yari) and Sakura die and Hinoka becomes rebel queen, Takumi needs something to do. It would be awkward for them to stand in the background and do nothing besides supporting Hinoka.

Or we could have everyone except Hinoka die, but that feels like overkill and a waste of a potential character.

I wouldn't want the game to be completely symmetrical with the deaths that appear in the Hoshido route (older brother/younger sister) but 2 deaths would be good to cement the gravity of your choice without making it too much of a waste of characters. Ryoma (sorry Yari) makes the most sense as he's the defacto ruler of the country that needs to die to make Garon's conquest significant. I think Takumi would be the best choice for next kill. Killing off all the male heirs of a dynasty seems like a natural choice when subduing a conquered territory. I'm not sure what Sakura would do besides support Hinoka but at the same time, I don't think much time needs to be spent on her. It's the Nohr route afterall, so the game will have it's hands full with developing the Nohr siblings.

Here's my idea for some of the chapters in the new Nohr route. Hoshido is conquered relatively early (maybe chapter 15?) and up to that point, the focus will be mostly on combating Ryoma and Takumi. After chapter 15, Ryoma and Takumi are captured by Garon and the remainder of Hoshido's forces are scattered. Hinoka (with the support of Sakura) are organizing a guerrilla war against the Nohrian occupation (ninja assassinations, arsons etc). In retaliation for these attacks, Garon/Ganz/Iago massacre civilians which greatly upsets Kamui. He believes Hinoka's futile resistance is just leading to more innocents dying so he spends a few more chapters combating Hoshidan insurgents. By chapter 17/18, Kamui confronts Hinoka directly and after the battle, captures her, unbeknownst to Garon. Garon, fed up with the Hoshido resistance plans to execute both Ryoma (soooorrrrry Yari) and Takumi in the plaza by hanging. Kamui and Hinoka (bound) arrive by carriage at the start of the execution, and unlike Radiant Dawn, they are unable to stop it. Kamui and Hinoka are forced to watch as their brothers are killed and at this point, more Hoshidan rebels attack and free Hinoka. After the battle, Kamui searches for Hinoka but is ambushed by Hinoka's forces. Hinoka tells Kamui that she can never forgive him for all the suffering he brought to Hoshido but refuses to kill him. Instead she tells him if he ever cared about his Hoshidan family, he should help her topple the brutal Garon. This is the point (probably starting at chapter 19/20) where Kamui acknowledges that Garon has gone too far and must be stopped. What follows is probably Kamui uniting dissatisfied factions in Nohr and well as bumping off the evil Nohrians like Ganz and Iago. By the end of the game, Hoshido regains its sovereignty under Queen Hinoka but has lost territory (farmland) to Nohr that will be used to help sustain the country. Maybe Marx will become the next king of Nohr and Kamui will be in charge of a neutral zone in-between Nohr and Hoshido.

Edited August 21, 2015 by NekoKnight

[Taka-kun]

This thread is really churning out good ideas for a potential rebuild of the Fates story. I might steal some ideas myself. Currently I would do something with Kamui assisting in Nohrian conquest of Hoshido and then Ryouma (very very sorry, Yari, but it has to happen) and Takumi are executed. Hinoka would be placed as a puppet queen, to appease the population and easier to control, by holding Sakura hostage in Nohr. Rebellious factions would appear in Hoshido but Nohr's hold of Sakura prevents Hinoka from doing anything outright drastic against it. Kamui would become more disillusioned as time flies by (I am planning on stretching out the story for years) and could potentially spark an event called Kamui's Rebellion.

And then he gets killed.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but there is a difference between doing it and doing it well and that is the largest obstacle I am tackling with.

That aside, anyone have good ideas for a Birthright story? It's not as broken as Conquest but I still feel that it should be reworked from the ground up, with shades of the original story.

[Thane]

This thread is really churning out good ideas for a potential rebuild of the Fates story. I might steal some ideas myself. Currently I would do something with Kamui assisting in Nohrian conquest of Hoshido and then Ryouma (very very sorry, Yari, but it has to happen) and Takumi are executed. Hinoka would be placed as a puppet queen, to appease the population and easier to control, by holding Sakura hostage in Nohr. Rebellious factions would appear in Hoshido but Nohr's hold of Sakura prevents Hinoka from doing anything outright drastic against it. Kamui would become more disillusioned as time flies by (I am planning on stretching out the story for years) and could potentially spark an event called Kamui's Rebellion.

And then he gets killed.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but there is a difference between doing it and doing it well and that is the largest obstacle I am tackling with.

That aside, anyone have good ideas for a Birthright story? It's not as broken as Conquest but I still feel that it should be reworked from the ground up, with shades of the original story.

I'm no writer, and it's much easier to fix an already messed up story, but what Birthright does need is better worldbuilding (either that or just remove the duchies entirely), better characterization, less filler and actually show that there's a war going on instead of casually searching for onii-chan until you sneak into the castle to chop of daddy's head.

Honestly, what I wanted to see in the opera house was some more character development. It would've been much better if Garon genuinely enjoyed a good opera show and took his kids there to experience some culture. Just a small gesture of him actually having a personality, rather than him spouting evil monologues and twirling his moustache all the time.

[Dark Sage]

I think one thing that could be interesting is to really emphasize the desperation of the Nohrians and their resentment towards Hoshido for the same reasons Thracia resents Lenster. It would also be interesting if Kamui was the more worldly character to the Hoshido royal's shelteredness. So Ryoma could basically be like "what's up with these guys, why can't they just go get real jobs" and Kamui would be the one to point out his naivete, which would help inspire the royals to want to fix things with Nohr.

Also it would be interesting if when they do a counterinvasion of Nohr, they visit a city flooded with refugees and see just how badly the war is hurting Nohr as well.

[Thane]

I think one thing that could be interesting is to really emphasize the desperation of the Nohrians and their resentment towards Hoshido for the same reasons Thracia resents Lenster. It would also be interesting if Kamui was the more worldly character to the Hoshido royal's shelteredness. So Ryoma could basically be like "what's up with these guys, why can't they just go get real jobs" and Kamui would be the one to point out his naivete, which would help inspire the royals to want to fix things with Nohr.

Also it would be interesting if when they do a counterinvasion of Nohr, they visit a city flooded with refugees and see just how badly the war is hurting Nohr as well.

Not to say that wouldn't be a good idea, but the problem is Kamui's backstory. Them being sheltered and naïve is essentially their most prominent traits.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Thane

[Azz]

If you don't want Ryouma to die, why not kill off Takumi and Sakura.

Here is what I would do:

Takumi is obviously peeved off the most about Kamui;s decision that it drives him mad.After the conquest of Hoshido, Takumi has one last stand and battles Kamui.Kamui nearly dead at this point as he does not want to fight Takumi is about to be killed until *Insert character here that I cannot think of* kills Takumi t save Kamui.

As for Sakura.The remaining siblings have been kept as prisoners for a while now and Garon has called for their execution.Everything is set.Ganz is the executioner.Leon notices Kamui(Corrin?If I am correct you are doing 2 MUs right), Elise and Aqua are missing from their seats.Three hooded figures appear and stop Ganz from executing Ryouma thanks to a blast of fire from one of the figures.They reveal themselves as Kamui, Aqua and Elise.Kamui runs forward and stabs Ganz in the chest, Elise casts a massive spell to get the civilians to flee and Aqua works on freeing the others.Fighting ensues.Finally done, no one noticed Macbeth taking Sakura whom he threatens to kill if they move.Though Garon sayd to kill her anyway so Macbeth drives a spell(Similar to Robin's Thoron when he attacks Chrom)through her chest killing her.

[Taka-kun]

Another idea in Birthright could be about Kamui's altruism vs Hoshidan nationalism (again, taking cues from Japan) and I don't mean to just emphasize the racist behaviour and more of preserving cultural heritage and the spirit of the people. Like Nohr could have conquered Hoshido and actually treat the people well, but not being ruled by a member of the Hoshidan royal family is unacceptable for them and rebellious spirits would rise up. This could also serve as a good theme dealing with Kamui's false heritage, whether he identifies himself as a Hoshidan or a Nohrian.

[NekoKnight]

This thread is really churning out good ideas for a potential rebuild of the Fates story. I might steal some ideas myself. Currently I would do something with Kamui assisting in Nohrian conquest of Hoshido and then Ryouma (very very sorry, Yari, but it has to happen) and Takumi are executed. Hinoka would be placed as a puppet queen, to appease the population and easier to control, by holding Sakura hostage in Nohr. Rebellious factions would appear in Hoshido but Nohr's hold of Sakura prevents Hinoka from doing anything outright drastic against it. Kamui would become more disillusioned as time flies by (I am planning on stretching out the story for years) and could potentially spark an event called Kamui's Rebellion.

And then he gets killed.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but there is a difference between doing it and doing it well and that is the largest obstacle I am tackling with.

That aside, anyone have good ideas for a Birthright story? It's not as broken as Conquest but I still feel that it should be reworked from the ground up, with shades of the original story.

I like the idea of Sakura getting captured, leading to Hinoka as the head of a puppet government but at the same time, I wouldn't want Hinoka's role reduced to bench-warmer when she got so little attention in the actual game.

As far as re-writing Hoshido goes, I think the story was solid, if unambitious. I think the overall "defend country against invaders" plot should remain the same but we could add to other elements that didn't get much attention such as the political infighitng (Fuuma rebellion) and Kamui's dragon heritage.

I think one thing that could be interesting is to really emphasize the desperation of the Nohrians and their resentment towards Hoshido for the same reasons Thracia resents Lenster. It would also be interesting if Kamui was the more worldly character to the Hoshido royal's shelteredness. So Ryoma could basically be like "what's up with these guys, why can't they just go get real jobs" and Kamui would be the one to point out his naivete, which would help inspire the royals to want to fix things with Nohr.

Also it would be interesting if when they do a counterinvasion of Nohr, they visit a city flooded with refugees and see just how badly the war is hurting Nohr as well.

Haha, yes! I think both routes should shine light on the flaws and motivations for both Nohr and Hoshido. Hoshidans being a peaceful people, but indifferent to the suffering of non-Hoshidans. Nohrians being aggressive and ruthless but out of desperation for a lack of resources.

Not to say that wouldn't be a good idea, but the problem is Kamui's backstory. Them being a sheltered and naïve is essentially their most prominent traits.

So rewrite it. Aqua needs to be completely redone anyway.

Make it so that Kamui has been allowed out in the open for 4 years or so, so he's aware of the kind of issues Nohr faces. I always thought it was weird that Garon bothered to capture Kamui if he wasn't going to make a serious effort to indoctrinate him and make him loyal to Nohr.

Edited August 21, 2015 by NekoKnight

[Thane]

So rewrite it. Aqua needs to be completely redone anyway.

Make it so that Kamui has been allowed out in the open for 4 years or so, so he's aware of the kind of issues Nohr faces. I always thought it was weird that Garon bothered to capture Kamui if he wasn't going to make a serious effort to indoctrinate him and make him loyal to Nohr.

Aye, a rewrite would be needed, but you bring up something else: is Azura really necessary? There's already a surplus of siblings, and if you focus on the Nohr-Hoshido conflict, then the less to remind the player of the Invisible Kingdom the better. Hydra is another element of the story I would like to remove in its entirety.

[Taka-kun]

I like the idea of Sakura getting captured, leading to Hinoka as the head of a puppet government but at the same time, I wouldn't want Hinoka's role reduced to bench-warmer when she got so little attention in the actual game.

As far as re-writing Hoshido goes, I think the story was solid, if unambitious. I think the overall "defend country against invaders" plot should remain the same but we could add to other elements that didn't get much attention such as the political infighitng (Fuuma rebellion) and Kamui's dragon heritage.

I agree about Hinoka, she is a very fairly interesting character so she shouldn't really put on the bench. If I would like to go further with the idea, I would probably have Hinoka learn how to use subterfuge and assassins, instead of the usual straighforward way she usually does.

While the "defend country" main plot is generally good, Kamui's own willingness could play a large role here. Like, is he really okay with fighting against the family he has been fostered with to fight for strangers, some which might hate him (hell, I wouldn't risk my life for people that hate me)? Add in that his original goal was to actually make Nohr a better living place. Then there is the revelation that Kamui is NOT a Hoshidan, and an identity crisis can occur. Basically, there is no reason for Kamui to fight for Hoshido other than a fragile sense of "justice".

[Nanima]

Here's my idea for some of the chapters in the new Nohr route. Hoshido is conquered relatively early (maybe chapter 15?) and up to that point, the focus will be mostly on combating Ryoma and Takumi. After chapter 15, Ryoma and Takumi are captured by Garon and the remainder of Hoshido's forces are scattered. Hinoka (with the support of Sakura) are organizing a guerrilla war against the Nohrian occupation (ninja assassinations, arsons etc). In retaliation for these attacks, Garon/Ganz/Iago massacre civilians which greatly upsets Kamui. He believes Hinoka's futile resistance is just leading to more innocents dying so he spends a few more chapters combating Hoshidan insurgents. By chapter 17/18, Kamui confronts Hinoka directly and after the battle, captures her, unbeknownst to Garon. Garon, fed up with the Hoshido resistance plans to execute both Ryoma (soooorrrrry Yari) and Takumi in the plaza by hanging. Kamui and Hinoka (bound) arrive by carriage at the start of the execution, and unlike Radiant Dawn, they are unable to stop it. Kamui and Hinoka are forced to watch as their brothers are killed and at this point, more Hoshidan rebels attack and free Hinoka. After the battle, Kamui searches for Hinoka but is ambushed by Hinoka's forces. Hinoka tells Kamui that she can never forgive him for all the suffering he brought to Hoshido but refuses to kill him. Instead she tells him if he ever cared about his Hoshidan family, he should help her topple the brutal Garon. This is the point (probably starting at chapter 19/20) where Kamui acknowledges that Garon has gone too far and must be stopped. What follows is probably Kamui uniting dissatisfied factions in Nohr and well as bumping off the evil Nohrians like Ganz and Iago. By the end of the game, Hoshido regains its sovereignty under Queen Hinoka but has lost territory (farmland) to Nohr that will be used to help sustain the country. Maybe Marx will become the next king of Nohr and Kamui will be in charge of a neutral zone in-between Nohr and Hoshido.

I am liking how this goes, but I think chapter 19/20 is a bit too late for the rebellion to start. If we are going for the 27 chapter structure at least. I am thinking (now going off my Camilla=Spymaster idea):

Chapter 15: Ryouma, Takumi and Sakura are captured, ending the war. Meanwhile Camilla (who has a seperate mission from Kamui and the others because I want her to be relevant damnit) manages to capture Hinoka, but lets her go, so she can become the secret leader of the Hoshidan resistance and help setting up a rebellion against Garon (Camilla decided that Garon isn't fit to rule anymore). Camilla then returns to Nohr claiming she killed Hinoka.

Chapter 16: Short time skip, Hoshido is absorbed into Nohr, but the people (covertly led by Hinoka) keep resisting and trying to free the royal siblings, which makes Garon decide to execute them. The Nohrian siblings beg Garon to show mercy, who grumpily concedes that at least Sakura is spared so she can be used as a hostage (a suggestion made by Camilla) . Ryouma and Takumi are executed publicly, which leaves Kamui a guilt ridden mess.

Chapter 17: The Hoshidan resistance appears undaunted in their attempts to free Sakura, so Garon decides that she should be executed as well. Kamui decides that enough is enough and frees her, being declared a traitor in the process.

Camilla, Leon and Elise immediately join him in this, and Camilla reveals Hinoka's status. They begin to plan out a joint Hoshidan/Nohr rebellion against Garon.

Chapter 18: On their way to join up with the Hoshidan resistance the group is ambushed by Nohrian troups lead by Marx and Ganz/Macbeth. Battle ensues, and Marx manages to corner Kamui and defeats them. When he decides to capture them, Macbeth/Ganz buts in and says that Garon has decided to have Kamui (and the other sibs) executed for their treachery, so Marx might as well get it over with now. Marx briefly struggles with his loyalties, but finally draws the line and joins the resistance.

Chapter 19-27: Nohrian civil war.

Let me know what you think.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Nanima²

[Taka-kun]

One thing I see lacking in this thread is the whole theme of family. I have been beating on this dead horse for awhile (I count myself being one of the most dissapointed fans here on this site regarding that topic) but it bears repeating. I hate to forcefully introduce it but it should be considered anyway.

Like, people take for granted that Marx, Camilla and Leon could just up and betray Garon, their father, their blood and flesh. There is a limit how much you can take, yes, but most family members tends to stick together, no matter what. That's why we have a problem with families giving false testimonies to the police to shield another family member, or sheltering and hiding them, despite the criminal acts they have done. Though I haven't read the supports myself, the three had good terms with their father and they had genuine love between each other. Just those small acts of love, of comfort during the early years can impact heavily when you get older. Garon could have been like Marx when he was younger and Marx inherited that sense of duty towards country. The only thing that separates them are years of pain and suffering and ageing.

Kamui had none of that. Garon never loved him/her and he/she only did their best to be acknowledged as a prince of Nohr, to stand beside their royal siblings, which is why rebellion comes easier for them. Imagine a wham line in Conquest like this:

Leon: "It's not that easy, Kamui, to turn your back against your flesh and blood."

Kamui: "But I can, is that what you are saying?"

Leon: "N-no, I meant..."

Kamui: "We already have proof of that after all."

[Yari]

It seems to be good. You can go ahead and write that story if you I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy it. Not me because you know.

I probably won't even kill any main character in the storyline except maybe Azura. Because Hoshido/Nohr and later the Invisible Kingdom will all be in my fanfic I won't be able to kill a lot of characters off in my story.

Taka-kun the family themes are one of the most important parts of my fic. I don't plan on having them rebel against Garon in that way.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Yari

[Nanima]

The family theme in Nohr will be important in a certain way: Who is my family? For Kamui in Nohr that question is answered as: The siblings I grew up with.

For the rest of the Nohrian's it is more difficult as they have to decide wether to support Garon or Kamui:

Elise: she never experienced the kind side of Garon, and her mother didn't love her either. The reason she is still so kind and loveable is because she had her siblings who showered her with affection.

Garon is not a true parental figure to her, so if the decision is between Kamui and Garon, she'll choose Kamui any day.

Leon: he still got to know the nicer side of Garon, if only briefly, so he definitly longs for the father figure he ones had. But Leon is still way more familiar with the cruel Garon and therefore has a stronger bond with Kamui. He is also way more of a realist and knows that all of Garon's militaristic bluster is bound to drive the country into ruin.

Camilla: Now her character is the most changed from the game. In my mind, she got to witness Garon slowly growing more and more cruel, saw him goaded by figures such as Ganz and Macbeth to commit terrible acts. Once the war with Hoshido started she realized that there was no going back to the way things were, and that it was only a matter of time before Garon would act against even his own family (Kamui being the first to go). So she formed a plan that would eventually lead to a rebellion, and would hopefully end with Marx ascending the throne. Despite this, her plans never included killing Garon (which happens anyway). She simply wanted him to be forced from the throne and then spend his last days somewhere isolated and peaceful. On the other hand, she has no problems endangering the lifes of the Hoshidan royalty if it leads to her goal.

Marx: As the dutiful son, he has the most problems with acting against his father. He still loves him and desperately clings to the notion that everything will be alright once Hoshido is conquered. When he sees that this didn't work, he is still caught up between acting like the perfect heir to his father, the needs of the Nohrian people, and his siblings well-being. He tries to escape making a definite choice for as long as possible, but when push comes to shove he decides that it's his siblings who matter more than his memory of how his father used to be.

So in the end it's not only Kamui who chooses his Nohrian siblings. They also choose him and each other over Garon.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Nanima²

[Yari]

Nanima² that sounds very interesting even if totally diferent from the way I'm doing because I'll change Garon in the story and also the background of my Kamuis. The siblings relationships in my fics are already defined and I liked how they turned I would write them but I'm on my phone right so I don't feel comfortable with writting such a big post with it. Edited August 21, 2015 by Yari

[Sunwoo]

In the actual story of Nohr, weren't Garon and Iago most adamant about killing off the older two more so than Takumi and Sakura? If that holds true, then it would make most sense for Ryouma and Hinoka to die. Honestly, I cannot see a situation where Ryouma does not die because he's arguably putting himself in the most danger AND is in the most powerful position of all of the Hoshido royals. To be a good writer or to write a good story, sometimes you have to kill off characters you love if the plot calls for it. Much as I like Takumi, if I had to kill him off in order for one of my stories to not be shit, I'm doing it in that particular story because it is necessary.

[Taka-kun]

The family theme in Nohr will be important in a certain way: Who is my family? For Kamui in Nohr that question is answered as: The siblings I grew up with.

For the rest of the Nohrian's it is more difficult as they have to decide wether to support Garon or Kamui:

Elise: she never experienced the kind side of Garon, and her mother didn't love her either. The reason she is still so kind and loveable is because she had her siblings who showered her with affection.

Garon is not a true parental figure to her, so if the decision is between Kamui and Garon, she'll choose Kamui any day.

Leon: he still got to know the nicer side of Garon, if only briefly, so he definitly longs for the father figure he ones had. But Leon is still way more familiar with the cruel Garon and therefore has a stronger bond with Kamui. He is also way more of a realist and knows that all of Garon's militaristic bluster is bound to drive the country into ruin.

Camilla: Now her character is the most changed from the game. In my mind, she got to witness Garon slowly growing more and more cruel, saw him goaded by figures such as Ganz and Macbeth to commit terrible acts. Once the war with Hoshido started she realized that there was no going back to the way things were, and that it was only a matter of time before Garon would act against even his own family (Kamui being the first to go). So she formed a plan that would eventually lead to a rebellion, and would hopefully end with Marx ascending the throne. Despite this, her plans never included killing Garon (which happens anyway). She simply wanted him to be forced from the throne and then spend his last days somewhere isolated and peaceful. On the other hand, she has no problems endangering the lifes of the Hoshidan royalty if it leads to her goal.

Marx: As the dutiful son, he has the most problems with acting against his father. He still loves him and desperately clings to the notion that everything will be alright once Hoshido is conquered. When he sees that this didn't work, he is still caught up between acting like the perfect heir to his father, the needs of the Nohrian people, and his siblings well-being. He tries to escape making a definite choice for as long as possible, but when push comes to shove he decides that it's his siblings who matter more than his memory of how his father used to be.

So in the end it's not only Kamui who chooses his Nohrian siblings. They also choose him and each other over Garon.

This, this is what I was looking for, especially the bolded part. Like, actual sibling relationship versus their roles as prince and princesses.

[Taka-kun]

Double post, my bad.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Taka-kun

[Thane]

In the actual story of Nohr, weren't Garon and Iago most adamant about killing off the older two more so than Takumi and Sakura? If that holds true, then it would make most sense for Ryouma and Hinoka to die. Honestly, I cannot see a situation where Ryouma does not die because he's arguably putting himself in the most danger AND is in the most powerful position of all of the Hoshido royals. To be a good writer or to write a good story, sometimes you have to kill off characters you love if the plot calls for it. Much as I like Takumi, if I had to kill him off in order for one of my stories to not be shit, I'm doing it in that particular story because it is necessary.

"Good...good"