Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)

[Taka-kun]

The allegiance of the different autonomous duchies could add an interesting tale to the whole plot. It has been discussed before about Kamui gaining influence, in both Hoshido and Nohr, why not from this very duchies? And I don't mean via cheap means like "Oh, chosen by Yato, ohhh!". I want them to elaborate more, with something like divine right of kings adding legitimacy. The Ice Tribe clan is such a case, Kamui could use whatever leverage he has in court to protect them from Garon's wrath and in gratitude, they supply him with troops and whatnot (and Flora's hand in a political marriage, idk).

I am too more in favor of realistic settings rather than going all mythological and I think the duchies would be good players in the political field, which both Conquest and Birthright touches upon. "Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens."

Almost forgot, in terms of marriage: Who does people think Kamui could marry to most benefit the plot? I am fortunately not too swayed by this waifu/husbando thing yet so I am a little bit unbiased about this whole debacle. Like, shouldn't Aqua be the number one contender for M!Kamui's hand, since she is the deutargonist.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Taka-kun

[Yari]

I could come up with a way for him to survive if I chose not to kill any of the siblings, but unless you're doing a complete Hoshido path rewrite where none of the Nohr siblings die as well then it's only fair for Hoshido to lose the same amount of siblings as Nohr on the opposite routes. It's also not unheard of for at least one sibling to die in the name of plot -- this is war.

Also, I stayed up late working on last minute summer assignments and still have more work and writing later today. I'm coming up with all my Fates ideas on the spot. Give me a break just because I couldn't think of a way to spare Ryouma at the moment.

I'm doing a rewrite for all paths. Where no one dies to not mess up the other paths story. I thought that was made pretty clear already. If I were to rewrite just one of the paths it would be Hoshido and I would kill off Marx so I could feast on the tears and rage of the fangirls and Leon even if I like him so that I could feast on the tears and rage of the fangirls, In the name of cruel mercy no one dies but everyone will suffer (especially the characters I love the most) with the war without death taking any of the sibling because I need them for the plot.

I haven't slept more than three hours in the last three nigths and I still came up with three diferent plotlines for each path, a geneal outline, a general rewrite of my characters chart and a bunch of secondary plots inside each story. I'm just a bit on edge I'm sorry if I came off as rude.

Yeah ngl as much as I am a lobster fan and I mean, I spent my entire summer when I'm supposed to coding drawing pictures of him, but, if the death of my favorite character is going to be beneficial to both the plot and their character, then I'm going to be for that. Maybe I'm just also desensitized because 90% of my favorite characters are dead anyway, but

Take an example in FE4's Ayra. In FE4, most Gen1s are believed to have died at Bahara, until you get to Gen2/read some supplementary Kaga stuff and find out that most mothers actually survived the event, with the exception of iirc Ethlin and Ayra (a few of them died afterwards like Tiltyu due to abuse). I'd much rather have that than if Ayra was also somehow found out alive, bullshit or not, since Ayra's very much a warrior and it's much more befitting for her to have died at Sigurd's last stand in battle than being alive (except the Levin method aka did actually die but got revived by his patron dragon god, but Levin is actually Major Forseti while Ayra's Minor Odo so). I'm very glad that she was not ass-revived, even though she's easily one of my favorite FE characters of all time.

Maybe I just used up all my sadness because I'm a jojo fan and you can't expect anyone to live through that anyway, but really, if the death makes sense and is overall beneficial to both the character (deaths, and the way they go out, can actually really impact characterization) and the plot, then do it. No plot armor.

I had to read/watch so many characters deaths by now. If I had to kill him I would if I were writing a Nohr centred story. I'm also pretty desensitized by now with all the characters deaths I've been throught but as I said I like cruel mercy more than death most of the time.

Genealogy did the right thing by having Ayra stay dead without reviving her in any way and I say that because I agree with you that it makes sense for her character.

I'm a Jojo fan too and I saw so many of my favorite characters there dying I don't know were I find the strength to keep watching. I have this tendency to write a lot of character development for characters but I need them to be alive for that. And as I said cruel mercy is better than death. Makes me like characters more. I hope that throught cruel mercy in my fic I can make it feel like war without having to rewrite the character development I already have planned.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Yari

[Sunwoo]

Well, Yari, from the way you asked me that question about "You couldn't think of a way to make Ryouma survive?" it sounded like you were doubting my writing or story telling skills just because I couldn't think of a way to make a high-risk character not die on the opposite route. Rewriting Fates isn't exactly my top priority in life right now, and I am generally pulling ideas from my ass and then deciding whether I want to develop it later or not. Even now, your second paragraph directed at me sounds kind of like bragging. "Oh, well, I had it worse than you and I still did all this." Again, if it's not your intent, then my apologies but it sounds kind of confrontational.

[Yari]

Well, Yari, from the way you asked me that question about "You couldn't think of a way to make Ryouma survive?" it sounded like you were doubting my writing or story telling skills just because I couldn't think of a way to make a high-risk character not die on the opposite route. Rewriting Fates isn't exactly my top priority in life right now, and I am generally pulling ideas from my ass and then deciding whether I want to develop it later or not. Even now, your second paragraph directed at me sounds kind of like bragging. "Oh, well, I had it worse than you and I still did all this." Again, if it's not your intent, then my apologies but it sounds kind of confrontational.

I just shouldn't reply to anything when I'm tired like that I always sound like an asshole. You can say I don't have a lot to do now so rewritting Fates seems like a option for me. I really love writting and coming up with stoylines and plots for fanfics. I'm sorry if I sounded confrontional it wasn't my intent at all. Edited August 22, 2015 by Yari

[OakTree]

Im thinking of ways to improve the Nohr path, but i have not been able to find a way to have the Nohr Revolution plot while still having the Nohr and Hoshido war as the focus of the story. Maybe turning one of the Hoshidan characters into a villainous figure could work?

[Taka-kun]

Im thinking of ways to improve the Nohr path, but i have not been able to find a way to have the Nohr Revolution plot while still having the Nohr and Hoshido war as the focus of the story. Maybe turning one of the Hoshidan characters into a villainous figure could work?

Not sure what you are going for here. You want a revolution in Nohr but why would you need villanous figure in Hoshido? The Nohrian throne as a whole is potrayed as asses, so Hoshido can just do their thing and the Nohrian rebels theirs. None of the parties need to be on amicable terms, the radical Hoshidans would still regard the Nohrians as enemies, no matter the intention. Takumi could be war hawk, if you want to choose one "villainous" figure.

[OakTree]

Not sure what you are going for here. You want a revolution in Nohr but why would you need villanous figure in Hoshido? The Nohrian throne as a whole is potrayed as asses, so Hoshido can just do their thing and the Nohrian rebels theirs. None of the parties need to be on amicable terms, the radical Hoshidans would still regard the Nohrians as enemies, no matter the intention. Takumi could be war hawk, if you want to choose one "villainous" figure.

What i mean is that i want for the revolution plot to happen, but i still want the war to be the main focus of the story.

[Taka-kun]

What i mean is that i want for the revolution plot to happen, but i still want the war to be the main focus of the story.

Then I would suggest this: The Nohrian invasion in Hoshido strips the resources in Nohr bare, leaving little for the people. What is taken in Hoshido is soon lost and little is sent back to compensate for the high taxes. So the people (with or without instigation) rises up in revolt.

Basically, that's the event of the Peasants' Revolt in England 1381. Just replace Nohr with England and Hoshido with France. If Kamui is your central character, he/she can just be in the middle of Hoshidan territory and unable to do anything about thre revolution back home.

[OakTree]

Then I would suggest this: The Nohrian invasion in Hoshido strips the resources in Nohr bare, leaving little for the people. What is taken in Hoshido is soon lost and little is sent back to compensate for the high taxes. So the people (with or without instigation) rises up in revolt.

Basically, that's the event of the Peasants' Revolt in England 1381. Just replace Nohr with England and Hoshido with France. If Kamui is your central character, he/she can just be in the middle of Hoshidan territory and unable to do anything about thre revolution back home.

Thanks, i really appreciate the help.

[Yari]

The allegiance of the different autonomous duchies could add an interesting tale to the whole plot. It has been discussed before about Kamui gaining influence, in both Hoshido and Nohr, why not from this very duchies? And I don't mean via cheap means like "Oh, chosen by Yato, ohhh!". I want them to elaborate more, with something like divine right of kings adding legitimacy. The Ice Tribe clan is such a case, Kamui could use whatever leverage he has in court to protect them from Garon's wrath and in gratitude, they supply him with troops and whatnot (and Flora's hand in a political marriage, idk).

I am too more in favor of realistic settings rather than going all mythological and I think the duchies would be good players in the political field, which both Conquest and Birthright touches upon. "Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens."

Almost forgot, in terms of marriage: Who does people think Kamui could marry to most benefit the plot? I am fortunately not too swayed by this waifu/husbando thing yet so I am a little bit unbiased about this whole debacle. Like, shouldn't Aqua be the number one contender for M!Kamui's hand, since she is the deutargonist.

I think the Yato in the game was suppose to invoke something similar to the divine right of kings but it failed due to a lack of explamation or backstory for the sword. Kamui using the right over Yato to be able to protect the Ice Tribe and that way gain troops for his cause.

The good thing about having a more realistic setting is that is makes the story more interesting, at least in my opinion, but the fact that this is fantasy allows us to do thing like having a sword choose it's owner. Overall going for more realism and adding a bit of fantasy seems like the right choice for a Fates rewrite.

Aqua would be an obvious choice. If you don't plan on including all the children (you don't seem very interested on that) I say go for it. Are you planning on including other couples or just M!KamuixSomeone?

Edited August 23, 2015 by Yari

[NekoKnight]

Hey guys, I'm working on a redrafting of the Fates story and part of that is taking out instant marriage/easy-bake children, so all of the child characters are going to have redefined relationships. I've come up with some ideas, but I'd be happy to hear creative suggestions.

[spoiler=Children Relationships]

Midoriko - Child adopted into Suzukaze and Saizo's clan.

Kana - Independent manakete

Shigure - Pegasus warrior from Aqua's village

Deere - Independent rod knight

Sophie - Silas' twin sister

Siegbert - Cousin of Marx

Foleo - Cousin of Marx

Ignis - Knight who trained with Benoit

Velour - Flannel's intended bride

Lutz - Harold's son

Ophelia - Independent dark mage

Solei - Independent mercenary

Eponine - Independent outlaw

Shinonome - Son of branch family from royal family

Kisaragi - Brother of Shinonome

Grey - Independent ninja

Kinu - Fellow member of Nishiki's tribe

Hisame - Childhood friend of Hinata

Mitama - Younger sister of Asama

Matoi - Junior pegasus warrior to Tsubaki

Shalla - Independent Spellcaster

[Ryo]

I think that even for fanfics, it's pretty hard to stuff all of the children characters into the story without having them feel like pointless cameos. Even if you're willing to spend extra efforts to give them proper characterization, I think that would inevitably create a lot of unnecessary fillers that are irrelevant to the main plot. Hell, I think even most of the royal retainers are redundant story-wise, each sibling having two retainers (and Kamui has like... four? five?) is a bit overkill.

Speaking of retainers, I'm quite curious what you guys are going to do with the Awakening trio, given the recent DLC revelation.

[Thane]

Hey guys, I'm working on a redrafting of the Fates story and part of that is taking out instant marriage/easy-bake children, so all of the child characters are going to have redefined relationships. I've come up with some ideas, but I'd be happy to hear creative suggestions.

[spoiler=Children Relationships]

Midoriko - Child adopted into Suzukaze and Saizo's clan.

Kana - Independent manakete

Shigure - Pegasus warrior from Aqua's village

Deere - Independent rod knight

Sophie - Silas' twin sister

Siegbert - Cousin of Marx

Foleo - Cousin of Marx

Ignis - Knight who trained with Benoit

Velour - Flannel's intended bride

Lutz - Harold's son

Ophelia - Independent dark mage

Solei - Independent mercenary

Eponine - Independent outlaw

Shinonome - Son of branch family from royal family

Kisaragi - Brother of Shinonome

Grey - Independent ninja

Kinu - Fellow member of Nishiki's tribe

Hisame - Childhood friend of Hinata

Mitama - Younger sister of Asama

Matoi - Junior pegasus warrior to Tsubaki

Shalla - Independent Spellcaster

If you're going to write a fanfic or something, there's no way you're going to be able to include all of those characters and make them feel relevant in the slightest, unless the story is only about them. They're not even canon in the main game, so if your mission is to rewrite the Fates overarching plot, then you'd do better to focus on the main characters and actually give characters like Hinoka a proper personality.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Thane

[Alazen]

Aqua does the following:

1. Spew exposition (which includes "No talking about Touma").

2. Pull out magical devices.

3. Make shoddy plans.

She's Lucina 2.0 in that both the pre-release hyping and Fates itself treat Aqua as this mysterious character who is working the cogs behind the scenes, but in practice serves as an expositionbot for more important characters who also engages shoddy plans. I'm convinced that Aqua should be seriously reworked if not cut.

Any suggestions?

[Thane]

Aqua does the following:

1. Spew exposition (which includes "No talking about Touma").

2. Pull out magical devices.

3. Make shoddy plans.

She's Lucina 2.0 in that both the pre-release hyping and Fates itself treat Aqua as this mysterious character who is working the cogs behind the scenes, but in practice serves as an expositionbot for more important characters who also engages shoddy plans. I'm convinced that Aqua should be seriously reworked if not cut.

Any suggestions?

The difference is that Lucina is her own character and isn't mysterious for the sake of being mysterious. It also helps that she shows emotion, something Azura only does in supports, and even then it's very rare.

I'd cut her, Hydra and Touma entirely. They're only there to enable the golden ending and remove any complexity, tension and feeling of actions having consequences in the main story anyway. As long as they exist, the other routes are de facto wrong, and the war is a result of off screen manipulation with a touch of character stupidity in the form of Xander. With a world-ending villain who's responsible for everything, the entire human element of the story is removed.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Thane

[Sunwoo]

I wouldn't want to cut Aqua, but the story would really lose nothing of value if she weren't there. The best way to fix her would be to actually give her some relevancy. Have her being a political hostage have some point. Give her some actual relationships with the Hoshidan siblings because we know that Kamui is close with their Nohrian siblings, but Aqua seems to be in a bubble of her own despite liking Hoshido and the siblings. Also, Nohr should remember she exists before she shows her face. Everyone is fighting over Kamui but not giving a whit about Aqua. Why? Because they forgot she existed?

Also, she shouldn't know about the IK at all. Her mother is Shenmei, why not say that Shenmei told her of the IK, but she believed it to be mere rumors or a story/legend until she fell into it?

EDIT: WHY IS SF FOUR MINUTES FAST

Edited August 23, 2015 by Sunwoo

[NekoKnight]

If you're going to write a fanfic or something, there's no way you're going to be able to include all of those characters and make them feel relevant in the slightest, unless the story is only about them. They're not even canon in the main game, so if your mission is to rewrite the Fates overarching plot, then you'd do better to focus on the main characters and actually give characters like Hinoka a proper personality.

The roster for each route in Fates is actually on the smaller side, even with the children factored in so they are as filler as any other game. Only the royal siblings and a select few others will get much attention for the main story. I'm just brainstorming how these side characters would fit into a theoretical new game. At this stage, my ideas are forming into a "redrafting" of the story, as opposed to a fully fleshed out "fanfiction".

Aqua does the following:

1. Spew exposition (which includes "No talking about Touma").

2. Pull out magical devices.

3. Make shoddy plans.

She's Lucina 2.0 in that both the pre-release hyping and Fates itself treat Aqua as this mysterious character who is working the cogs behind the scenes, but in practice serves as an expositionbot for more important characters who also engages shoddy plans. I'm convinced that Aqua should be seriously reworked if not cut.

Any suggestions?

In the draft I'm working on, her character (exposition-bot, secret keeper) is going to be completely gutted and I'm switching her to a minor character. Instead of her being the princess of a 3rd kingdom, she's going to be the daughter of a tribal chieftain in Nohr that was captured and held as a political hostage. She becomes a retainer of Kamui in the place of Flora, who stays in the ice tribe.

[Yari]

Hey guys, I'm working on a redrafting of the Fates story and part of that is taking out instant marriage/easy-bake children, so all of the child characters are going to have redefined relationships. I've come up with some ideas, but I'd be happy to hear creative suggestions.

[spoiler=Children Relationships]

Midoriko - Child adopted into Suzukaze and Saizo's clan.

Kana - Independent manakete

Shigure - Pegasus warrior from Aqua's village

Deere - Independent rod knight

Sophie - Silas' twin sister

Siegbert - Cousin of Marx

Foleo - Cousin of Marx

Ignis - Knight who trained with Benoit

Velour - Flannel's intended bride

Lutz - Harold's son

Ophelia - Independent dark mage

Solei - Independent mercenary

Eponine - Independent outlaw

Shinonome - Son of branch family from royal family

Kisaragi - Brother of Shinonome

Grey - Independent ninja

Kinu - Fellow member of Nishiki's tribe

Hisame - Childhood friend of Hinata

Mitama - Younger sister of Asama

Matoi - Junior pegasus warrior to Tsubaki

Shalla - Independent Spellcaster

I find your ideas to be very interesting. But you'll have to find a way to make them relevant to the story or at least make them feel like they belong there. This is a good draft for them you now have to give them more depth as characters because some of the children are very gimmicky.

I like the idea of Lutz still being Arthur's son it could give us a family dinamic outside of the royal siblings and Arthur seems like he's old enough to have a child already so it won't be very far-fetched. I don't know what you plan for his mother but having her being dead and therefore everything Arthur has left of her is their son or having Lutz angry at his father and blamming him for his mother's death could make for some very good conversations. Siegbert and Foleo could be the children of the brother/sister Garon and that could help you to give him more characterization.

Speaking of retainers, I'm quite curious what you guys are going to do with the Awakening trio, given the recent DLC revelation.

I'm going for my own headcanon for why the Awakening trio got here instead of that DLC. Edited August 23, 2015 by Yari

[Thane]

The roster for each route in Fates is actually on the smaller side, even with the children factored in so they are as filler as any other game. Only the royal siblings and a select few others will get much attention for the main story. I'm just brainstorming how these side characters would fit into a theoretical new game. At this stage, my ideas are forming into a "redrafting" of the story, as opposed to a fully fleshed out "fanfiction".

Half of a Fire Emblem roster is still more than most casts in other games, especially games which focus on a strong, coherent narrative. It's all up to you, naturally, but I have a hard time seeing how you can make all the characters feel relevant; if you list things like that, it's going to assault the reader with information more than anything else, and all that new information will make it hard to remember the changes you've made from the game and even harder to care.

[NekoKnight]

I find your ideas to be very interesting. But you'll have to find a way to make them relevant to the story or at least make them feel like they belong there. This is a good draft for them you now have to give them more depth as characters because some of the children are very gimmicky.

I like the idea of Lutz still being Arthur's son it could give us a family dinamic outside of the royal siblings and Arthur seems like he's old enough to have a child already so it won't be very far-fetched. I don't know what you plan for his mother but having her being dead and therefore everything Arthur has left of her is their son or having Lutz angry at his father and blamming him for his mother's death could make for some very good conversations. Siegbert and Foleo could be the children of the brother/sister Garon and that could help you to give him more characterization.

I'm going for my own headcanon for why the Awakening trio got here instead of that DLC.

What I had in mind was Harold's wife dying in child-birth and him doing his best to raise his son on his own (and infusing some heroic morals while he's at it!). In their possible support, Lutz would feel guilty for causing the death of his mother and for being a burden in general. Harold would try to keep the conversations light-hearted, however. Their last support would have Lutz would tell Harold that Harold must be cursed for his family life to turn out like it did, to which Harold would respond in an uncharacteristically serious tone "Your mother and I weren't together for very long before her death but I consider myself lucky for the time we had. And I'm an even luckier person to have you as my son. I've experienced a lot of misfortune but I never once regretted you joining my life. Even now, you're my good luck charm." Or something to that effect. liek dis if u cri evertim T_T

[Alazen]

The difference is that Lucina is her own character and isn't mysterious for the sake of being mysterious. It also helps that she shows emotion, something Azura only does in supports, and even then it's very rare.

I'd cut her, Hydra and Touma entirely. They're only there to enable the golden ending and remove any complexity, tension and feeling of actions having consequences in the main story anyway. As long as they exist, the other routes are de facto wrong, and the war is a result of off screen manipulation with a touch of character stupidity in the form of Xander. With a world-ending villain who's responsible for everything, the entire human element of the story is removed.

To be frank, I support keeping Hydra and Touma to serve as a 3rd Party for Kamui to join if he rejects both kingdoms. I maintain Hydra doesn't have to be the Ultimate Mastermind Behind It All, you can pull a Der Langrisser and reveal it was Garon or Sumeragi's ambition that got the attention of the dragon.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Alazen

[JupiterKnight]

I think that could work if you keep Kamui's dragon powers saved for said third path, where Hydra wishes for Kamui to take its place as the dragon god due to his own degeneration.

[Yari]

What I had in mind was Harold's wife dying in child-birth and him doing his best to raise his son on his own (and infusing some heroic morals while he's at it!). In their possible support, Lutz would feel guilty for causing the death of his mother and for being a burden in general. Harold would try to keep the conversations light-hearted, however. Their last support would have Lutz would tell Harold that Harold must be cursed for his family life to turn out like it did, to which Harold would respond in an uncharacteristically serious tone "Your mother and I weren't together for very long before her death but I consider myself lucky for the time we had. And I'm an even luckier person to have you as my son. I've experienced a lot of misfortune but I never once regretted you joining my life. Even now, you're my good luck charm." Or something to that effect. liek dis if u cri evertim T_T

That's great! It's very cute and sweet! It's so not Arthur but it makes so much sense in that situation. Keep up the good work!

So I had some ideas of how to rewrite Aqua in my story:

First she is kidnapped after Kamui but Hoshido already had plans to kidnap her before that and keep her as a political prisioner because they were aware that Garon was planning an invasion, Mikoto basically brainwashes her into liking Hoshido by being kind to her, bad mouthing Nohr, having her spend time with the Hoshido siblings (with whom she becomes close) and forcing her to reject her Nohr heritage, the Nohr siblings think Aqua is dead because that was what Garon told them after sending spies to try and rescue her but Aqua refused to be taken because "Nohr is evil and they are not my family!". The Hoshido siblings are not aware Aqua is a princess of Nohr they just think she is a Nohrian girl that was taken in by Mikoto for some reason. I'm not saying I'll make Mikoto evil just pragmatic. Also Aqua knows of Touma but she doesn't believe it because she thinks it's just a story her mother Shemei told her when she was young.

I've been trying to rewrite Aqua for some time and this was all I had. I know she has other problems but I want to concentrate on making her backstory more belivable.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Yari

[Azz]

I think that new Aqua is good.Definitely better then the one we have already.Can't wait to see what you do with her.Also is Aqua the daughter of Garon or King of Touma?

[Yari]

She's the daughter of the King of Touma. Since I'm keeping Touma in I think I won't change that.