General US Politics

[Water Mage]

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832198588201594880 

So...isn't this a bit of a double standard? Or outright hypocrisy?

[Tryhard]

i was kinda hoping everyone would forget the US was a country for a while

it's definitely a double standard and hypocrisy, but that's standard for the GOP and especially Trump, so I'm not exactly surprised. i mean, he said "i love wikileaks" when they were leaking things about hillary, but also blasted Chelsea Manning for being an "ungrateful traitor" - after she criticized Obama, of all things.

I was kinda surprised that Michael "If I did a tenth of what Hillary Clinton did, I would be in jail" Flynn actually did get the boot, though.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Tryhard

[Radiant head]

yeah that's partisan hackery 101.  even the dems are pretty fluid about their feelings on whistleblowers depending on who's in power.

surprised people are still trying to catch trump on double standards or logical fallacies or whatever, when it should be pretty clear now that stuff doesn't matter 

[BrightBow]

And just 2 hours after that tweet he is already back to ranting about how those stories are fabricated by the media and the democrats. Even today Trump still can't decide if he wants to go with "the leaks are fake" or "the leakers are scum and need to be caught". I know Trump changes his position all the time but currently he is spinning so fast that it would make him immune to Stealth Rock.

Edited February 16, 2017 by BrightBow

[Tryhard]

sums it up, really.

more of this from reporters would have been nice

Edited February 16, 2017 by Tryhard

[Raumata]

So, how should a state government go about with maintaining old buildings, dams, etcetera in order for a situation like the one in California to not happen again? Yeah, I'm a bit miffed and I think that this Oroville dam nonsense could've been avoided.

[Lord Raven]

4 hours ago, Raumata said:

So, how should a state government go about with maintaining old buildings, dams, etcetera in order for a situation like the one in California to not happen again? Yeah, I'm a bit miffed and I think that this Oroville dam nonsense could've been avoided.

They need to put funding towards it and be actively aware. They should also not cut costs if it is harmful towards their citizens (see: Flint, Michigan).

 

5 hours ago, Tryhard said:

sums it up, really.

more of this from reporters would have been nice

I wish they had the balls to say "no." <57% to >43% is not substantial. He also should've pressed and said "well it's up to you, the president, to double check the information."

Fell far too short. Someone with his privilege should be utilizing it completely to hold his feet to the fire.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Lord Raven

[Time the Crestfallen]

Here we go again.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-extremists-program-exclusiv-idUSKBN15G5VO?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

[Tryhard]

6 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

I wish they had the balls to say "no." <57% to >43% is not substantial. He also should've pressed and said "well it's up to you, the president, to double check the information."

Fell far too short. Someone with his privilege should be utilizing it completely to hold his feet to the fire.

Sure, but at the same time, too often the US media allows people to tell blatant (not to mention, mundane) lies without calling them out on them. The thing that should be the media's job. I'm glad here and at other points they at least attempt to do so, even if they don't go far enough.

It's kinda part of the reason why the US media is regarded with less approvability than Trump.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Tryhard

[Water Mage]

3 hours ago, The Blind Idiot God said:

Here we go again.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-extremists-program-exclusiv-idUSKBN15G5VO?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

That's because Islam is the only thing most people think when thinking of terrorism. And Trump is taking advantage of that.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Water Mage

[Res]

14 hours ago, The Blind Idiot God said:

Here we go again.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-extremists-program-exclusiv-idUSKBN15G5VO?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social

Sigh.

Meanwhile nice white Americans like Mark are foiled in their attempts to blow up retail stores and "the U.S. Attorney's Office cautioned, though, "a criminal complaint is merely an allegation that a defendant has committed one or more violations of federal criminal law, and every defendant is presumed innocent unless, and until, proven guilty."". 

[Radiant head]

this headline is what i've been trying to say for months now 
Liberals: Stop to Own Conservatives By Their Own Logic...They Do Not Care

 

[Raumata]

Sometimes I wish news articles would get to the point. Short and simple. You all ever feel like that?

[Sage of Ylisse]

28 minutes ago, Raumata said:

Sometimes I wish news articles would get to the point. Short and simple. You all ever feel like that?

So you feel like that most of the time? But I do definitely agree with that statement. News Articles need to just cut the shit.

[Flee Fleet!]

On 2/17/2017 at 1:43 PM, Water Mage said:

That's because Islam is the only thing most people think when thinking of terrorism. And Trump is taking advantage of that.

Why am I not surprised? Sigh....

Also, quoting from the article:

The program, "Countering Violent Extremism," or CVE, would be changed to "Countering Islamic Extremism" or "Countering Radical Islamic Extremism," the sources said, and would no longer target groups such as white supremacists who have also carried out bombings and shootings in the United States.

so he's going to totally ignore any bombings, failed or not, committed by non Muslims? If so, that's just unfair. I wonder what Trump would say if in the next four years, most terrorism in the US is caused by non Muslim Americans probably nothing ?

 

[Lord Raven]

absolutely nothing

they didnt give a shit about a canadian bomber nor a bomb threat from a white dude in florida, nor bomb threats all over synagogues all over the country

[Tetragrammaton]

They need to white wash the country first.

[The DanMan]

On 2/18/2017 at 2:08 AM, Radiant head said:

this headline is what i've been trying to say for months now 
Liberals: Stop to Own Conservatives By Their Own Logic...They Do Not Care

 

It's articles like these that make me all the more frustrated with politics. Judging the whole by the loud actions of a small part just alienates the whole-- the fact that Trump got elected should already prove this. Multiple relatives of mine voted for him out of either (a) spite for all the doom-and-gloomers (my more cynical uncles, really) or (b) thinking that he'd be a Hail-Mary compared to Clinton. But then you had Obama talking like everybody who voted for Trump is racist and much of the media still talks about Conservatives like a completely different species. It's a really sad tactic-- make the opposition out to entirely be stubborn bigots so as to not make them worthy of any respect and perfect magnets for hatred. It's ridiculous; why does politics have to be so radicalized? It's possible for people to simply agree to disagree instead of talking down, insulting, undermining, and vilifying eachother over political differences.

[Time the Crestfallen]

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

It's articles like these that make me all the more frustrated with politics. Judging the whole by the loud actions of a small part just alienates the whole-- the fact that Trump got elected should already prove this. Multiple relatives of mine voted for him out of either (a) spite for all the doom-and-gloomers (my more cynical uncles, really) or (b) thinking that he'd be a Hail-Mary compared to Clinton. But then you had Obama talking like everybody who voted for Trump is racist and much of the media still talks about Conservatives like a completely different species. It's a really sad tactic-- make the opposition out to entirely be stubborn bigots so as to not make them worthy of any respect and perfect magnets for hatred. It's ridiculous; why does politics have to be so radicalized? It's possible for people to simply agree to disagree instead of talking down, insulting, undermining, and vilifying eachother over political differences.

I'm all for calm and reasonable discussion, but it's hard not to feel like it might not be a lost cause when not only is racism and sexism the best predictor of support for Trump:
http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

But that extensive polling has shown that the number of Trump supporters that could be described as bigots is only a little less than half, as opposed to a small minority:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_51016.pd
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-race-idUSKCN0ZE2SW
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/12/12882796/trump-supporters-racist-deplorables
http://www.vox.com/2016/11/1/13480416/trump-supporters-sexism

"38% of Trump voters say they wish the South had won the Civil War
"By an 80/9 spread, Trump voters support his proposed ban on Muslims entering the United States"
"In fact, 31% would support a ban on homosexuals entering the United States as well"
"There's also 62/23 support among Trump voters for creating a national database of Muslims and 40/36% support for shutting down all Mosques in the United States, something no one else's voters back."
"Only 44% of Trump voters think the practice of Islam should even be legal at all in the United States, to 33% who think it should be illegal."
"32% of Trump voters continue to believe the policy of Japanese internment during World War II was a good one, compared to only 33% who oppose it and 35% who have no opinion one way or another."
"65% think President Obama is a Muslim
"59% think President Obama was not born in the United States"
"27% think vaccines cause autism"
"Nearly half of Trump's supporters descrived African Americans as more 'violent' than whites. The same proportion described African Americans as more 'criminal' than whites, while 40 percent describe them as more 'lazy' than whites."
"32 percent of Trump supporters placed whites closer to the top level of 'intelligence' than the did blacks, compared with 22 percent of Clinton supporters who did the same
"About 40 percent of Trump supporters placed whites higher on the 'hardworking' scale than blacks, while 25% of Clinton supporters did the same."
"And 44% of Trump supporters placed whites as more 'well-mannered' than blacks, compared with 30% of Clinton supporters"

And if you want to say focus on the other half-ish of Trump supporters who aren't bigots, it doesn't change the fact that everything he said (including a recorded confession of sexual assault), his blatant incompetence, proven dishonest and support from the KKK and literal Neo-Nazis wasn't enough to be a deal-breaker, let alone any of the shit that's happened since he took office.

[Radiant head]

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

It's articles like these that make me all the more frustrated with politics. Judging the whole by the loud actions of a small part just alienates the whole-- the fact that Trump got elected should already prove this. Multiple relatives of mine voted for him out of either (a) spite for all the doom-and-gloomers (my more cynical uncles, really) or (b) thinking that he'd be a Hail-Mary compared to Clinton. But then you had Obama talking like everybody who voted for Trump is racist and much of the media still talks about Conservatives like a completely different species. It's a really sad tactic-- make the opposition out to entirely be stubborn bigots so as to not make them worthy of any respect and perfect magnets for hatred. It's ridiculous; why does politics have to be so radicalized? It's possible for people to simply agree to disagree instead of talking down, insulting, undermining, and vilifying eachother over political differences.

i mean first of all I don't see politics as some abstract thing to just have agreements or disagreements about, trump presidency is already ruining the lives of people I care about deeply.  

i don't disagree that not all his voters were motivated by racism, but the most vocal trump supporters like online trolls or hate mongering pundits like milo yabadabadoo or ann coulter are unambiguously scum of the earth, and can't really be "debated" in good faith 

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, The Blind Idiot God said:

I'm all for calm and reasonable discussion, but it's hard not to feel like it might not be a lost cause when not only is racism and sexism the best predictor of support for Trump:
http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/4/14160956/trump-racism-sexism-economy-study

But that extensive polling has shown that the number of Trump supporters that could be described as bigots is only a little less than half, as opposed to a small minority:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_51016.pd
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-race-idUSKCN0ZE2SW
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/12/12882796/trump-supporters-racist-deplorables
http://www.vox.com/2016/11/1/13480416/trump-supporters-sexism

*insert data*

And if you want to say focus on the other half-ish of Trump supporters who aren't bigots, it doesn't change the fact that everything he said (including a recorded confession of sexual assault), his blatant incompetence, proven dishonest and support from the KKK and literal Neo-Nazis wasn't enough to be a deal-breaker, let alone any of the shit that's happened since he took office.

While poll numbers are poll numbers, I think it's also important to mention that there were a fair few Conservatives who didn't support Trump. But as the original linked article demonstrated, people aren't saying "Hardline Trump supporters are beyond reasoning with"; they're going out of their way to vilify and alienate those who disagree with them instead of focusing on those who actually might be the issue. It's one extreme to another-- the far left and far right feed eachother and get more and more vocal about it.

58 minutes ago, Radiant head said:

i mean first of all I don't see politics as some abstract thing to just have agreements or disagreements about, trump presidency is already ruining the lives of people I care about deeply.  

i don't disagree that not all his voters were motivated by racism, but the most vocal trump supporters like online trolls or hate mongering pundits like milo yabadabadoo or ann coulter are unambiguously scum of the earth, and can't really be "debated" in good faith 

When have online trolls and hate mongering pundits ever been taken seriously, regardless of their stated beliefs?
I don't disagree with what you're saying; my beef here is instead of trying to fix the immediate issue at hand and help those actually being effected or talking about how to get back power in the mid-terms, it's a bunch of bitching and fingerpointing.

[Radiant head]

I would say those people, going back to limbaugh, have had A LOT of impact on poisoning political discourse 

[Lord Raven]

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

When have online trolls and hate mongering pundits ever been taken seriously, regardless of their stated beliefs?

My friend's parents used to watch Fox News like it were a religion. Because you don't take them seriously does not mean others will.

/pol/ and /r/The_Donald also started out as places to make fun of hate-mongering by parodying them. Now, they're cesspits and borderline recruitment for the alt-right, with a very cult-like fixation on their glorious leader.

People also took Stephen Colbert seriously. It was the most baffling thing.

[Res]

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

While poll numbers are poll numbers, I think it's also important to mention that there were a fair few Conservatives who didn't support Trump. But as the original linked article demonstrated, people aren't saying "Hardline Trump supporters are beyond reasoning with"; they're going out of their way to vilify and alienate those who disagree with them instead of focusing on those who actually might be the issue. It's one extreme to another-- the far left and far right feed each other and get more and more vocal about it.

When have online trolls and hate mongering pundits ever been taken seriously, regardless of their stated beliefs?
I don't disagree with what you're saying; my beef here is instead of trying to fix the immediate issue at hand and help those actually being effected or talking about how to get back power in the mid-terms, it's a bunch of bitching and fingerpointing.

One of the points I took away from the article, which you're exemplifying here, is that it literally doesn't matter what some conservatives do - no one cares about the hypocrisy. Instead of focus being on the conservatives who *do* demonstrate bigotry and hatred, the focus is always on the people decrying the bigotry and hatred (if they don't do it in a nice, passive enough manner). 

Here's the problem with 'agreeing to disagree' - some people's views impact people more than other people's views do. The only people who can agree to disagree are in a position of privilege where laws being made are not going to affect their lives in any way. 

You've been silent on this thread for a while and haven't spoken up once against anything Trump's done, but you felt the need to reply and say 'not all conservatives' to Radiant Head - why? 

Also, trolls like Milo are absolutely being taken seriously! He's been on multiple TV segments, he's been granted lecture space, he was given a $250,000 book deal - and he's only been dropped, finally, because his views on pedophilia came to light. 

[Raumata]

5 minutes ago, Res said:

Also, trolls like Milo are absolutely being taken seriously! He's been on multiple TV segments, he's been granted lecture space, he was given a $250,000 book deal - and he's only been dropped, finally, because his views on pedophilia came to light. 

 

I wonder why the news haven't discussed this in the summer of 2016 when Milo made that statement? Their silence during 2016, until now, is weird. It's not like it's hard to find and I expect them to be somewhat internet savvy and keep up with the latest on differing opinions.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Raumata