video H5 Warpskipping LTC (completed in 55 turns)

[ruadath]

Wendell could reach the boss as well if the pirate wasn't on the way, but IIRC you can't have three flier class units at that point, so it's either a super cheesy Javelin forge or a slower clear.

Right, I was just going to note this possibility. In fact, Caeda might be able to crit + regular attack kill this pirate with a Javelin (maybe) if I level her up enough before hand (or give her a forged Javelin), which means Jagen can hit with the Silver Lance on turn 1. So the question is: is it possible to get him 3 more levels (he's already at level 2) before this Chapter? If not, is it possible to forge a Silver Lance with +1 or 2 Mt?

[Topazd]

Oh right, I forgot castle tiles could be flown over, haha. A residual instinct from FE3, probably.

[ruadath]

As psyched as I am to continue this playthrough, I have a couple of midterms coming up this week, so let's hope (for my sake!) that I don't get around to doing anything else until the weekend.

[ruadath]

Am I allowed to use the clone glitch to get the Hammerne staff? This would make things significantly easier since we wouldn't have to worry about Jagen becomeing a 3rd warper after sacrificing Wendell.

I added a poll to this topic; fill it out so I have some idea of what you guys think!

FWIW, I think I would vote against it, but it would nominally allow us to achieve a lower turn count, so it's up to you guys!

Edited September 29, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Forget about the last post actually. Can Chapter 13 be 4 turned with no warp (I'm looking to save 1 warp use from SSJDennis suggestions, and I think 2 extra turns here is the best I can do turnwise)

[Gradivus.]

Assuming the C6 2-turn is doable (convoy drop the rapier in both C6 and C7 to make dodging lances more likely), I can see something like this happen:

C4 - 4, 6w

C5 - 4

C6 - 2, 5w

C7 - 3, 4w

C8 - 2, 3w

C9 - 1, 2w

C10 - 3-4, 1w

C11 - 2, 0w

C12 - 1, 5w

C13 - 2, 4w (kill boss with marth ideally, but bait Astram towards the start to sell his weapons)

C14 - 2, 3w

C15 - 2, 2w

C16 - 1, 1w (forge ballista)

C17 - 1, 6w (ballista critkill, warp Julian to the warp chest)

C18 - 1, 4w

C19 - 2, 3w (Marth kills Tiki, survives 2 Heroes and dodges 2 Mages, I dunno how much damage they deal, but Marth gets boss exp so you'll be able to rig a bunch of levels, and he can dodge Mages (they have like 85 hit minus his avoid) more easily due to standing on a pillar)

C20 - 3, 1w (warp marth on turn 1 so he can finish a Paladin Shiida chipped, distract the ballista and 2 other Paladins with chumps, visit the village on turn 2 and warp him to the throne on turn 3)

C21 - 1

C22 - 1

C23 - 1

C24 - 1

C24x - 1

F - 1

Which would be a 56-57-turn clear too.

[ruadath]

Also, you guys were completely correct about Chapter 4 taking 5 turns to halfskip with Merric; I screwed up my calcutation.

But if we are not fullskipping anything until Chapter 14, it doesn't seem worth it to me pay the extra turn for Merric/Wendell. This means I'll need to train Jagen to C staves (23 heals, IIRC) by Chapter 20, but that should be quite reasonable... I think...

What are your thoughts?

[Gradivus.]

you don't even need to train jagen, boah comes in the C12 prison as your secondary warper.

EDIT: You can also 2-turn C12 and 1-turn C14. I didn't remember that you only have one warper for C12 and the warp uses can be swapped around easily.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Gradivus.

[ruadath]

Assuming the C6 2-turn is doable (convoy drop the rapier in both C6 and C7 to make dodging lances more likely), I can see something like this happen:

C4 - 4, 6w

C5 - 4

C6 - 2, 5w

C7 - 3, 4w

C8 - 2, 3w

C9 - 1, 2w

C10 - 3-4, 1w

C11 - 2, 0w

C12 - 1, 5w

C13 - 2, 4w (kill boss with marth ideally, but bait Astram towards the start to sell his weapons)

C14 - 2, 3w

C15 - 2, 2w

C16 - 1, 1w (forge ballista)

C17 - 1, 6w (ballista critkill, warp Julian to the warp chest)

C18 - 1, 4w

C19 - 2, 3w (Marth kills Tiki, survives 2 Heroes and dodges 2 Mages, I dunno how much damage they deal, but Marth gets boss exp so you'll be able to rig a bunch of levels, and he can dodge Mages (they have like 85 hit minus his avoid) more easily due to standing on a pillar)

C20 - 3, 1w (warp marth on turn 1 so he can finish a Paladin Shiida chipped, distract the ballista and 2 other Paladins with chumps, visit the village on turn 2 and warp him to the throne on turn 3)

C21 - 1

C22 - 1

C23 - 1

C24 - 1

C24x - 1

F - 1

Which would be a 56-57-turn clear too.

Where are you picking up a ballista? 1-turn Chapter 9 is too short to pick up a Ballista; you need at least 2 turns to get to Anna I think. Also confused about the Chapter 20 strategy. My tentative plan also skips 17x, but... I'm not sure you can do that with 2 warps (how is the warper going to reach Marth?)

[ruadath]

you don't even need to train jagen, boah comes in the C12 prison as your secondary warper.

You need a third warper since Lena has to be Hammerne-ing every now and then past chapter 20 (and you need 2 warps for fullskips).

Edited September 29, 2015 by ruadath

[Gradivus.]

Oh, forgot that. Yeah, but as you already noted it's easy to train Jagen anyway if you kill Wendell for the barrier.

Chapter 11 is where Jake the ballista is recruited. Forge C14's stonehoist that you can obtain on turn 1.

C20: Lena warps Marth on turn 1, Boah moves towards the village and warps him on turn 3.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Gradivus.

[ruadath]

Tentatively, this is what I'm looking at (differences is bold):

C4 - 4, 6w

C5 - 4

C6 - 2, 5w

C7 - 3, 4w

C8 - 2, 3w

C9 - 1, 2w

C10 - 3-4, 1w

C11 - 1, 0w (no Jake)

C12 - 2, 5w (I think marth can survive here by himself + I want boots for Caeda)

C13 - 4, 5w (no warpskip here)

C14 - 1, 3w

C15 - 2, 2w

C16 - 1, 1w (save a turn w/ boots)

C17 - 1, 5w (Caeda javelin double + critkill without warp, warp Julian to the warp chest)

C18 - 1, 3w

C19 - 1, 1w

C20 - 3, 1w (warp marth on turn 1 to village, distract the ballista and 2 other Paladins with chumps, lena intercepts him on turn 2 to trade staves and hammerne warp, boah warps him on turn 3)

C21 - 1

C22 - 1

C23 - 1

C24 - 1

C24x - 1

F - 1

which is also 56-57... but maybe your plan is better?

Alternatively, we can halfskip Astram's chapter (13) in 2 turns and not halfskip Chapter 4 for a similar result.

EDIT: Your plan is better if we assume Marth can survive by himself in Chapter 12; then there is no need to 2-turn Tiki so we get down to 55 turns... as long as we can afford all the ridiculous ballista critkills

Edited September 29, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

Actually, yeah your plan is definitely better as it can be done in 55 turns (again assuming the ballista stuff works out...), so I guess I'll roll with that?

Edited September 29, 2015 by ruadath

[SSJDennis]

Don't use the Clone glitch. And yes, you need that 4th warper.

Elice needs to Aum. Lena and Boah can warp. But that won't be enough to beat Medius. Or you also crit with the Dragonstone (is this possible?).

If not, go for Curate Nabarl. He has most time and highest level to pull it off. Promote him later and he should reach C-staff just in time (as a bishop).

You might even be able to sac. him in chapter 20.

I've been looking again... But the Boots are all the way down... This means you need to Warp there. If this means spending 2 more turns on Ch13,

how will this 1 turn save on Chapter 16 be worthwhile?

You probably are better off to add a turn in chapter 11 and get Jake. Then trade that turn against Chapter 16. Jake will then also assure a two turn

in chapter 12 without any "luck" on Marths survival.

I also think that Jake can get a crit on the chapter 17 boss, Michallis and Medius in the final chapter or kill the other manakete. At worst he can chip.

Edited September 29, 2015 by SSJDennis

[ruadath]

I've been looking again... But the Boots are all the way down... This means you need to Warp there. If this means spending 2 more turns on Ch13,

how will this 1 turn save on Chapter 16 be worthwhile?

You probably are better off to add a turn in chapter 11 and get Jake. Then trade that turn against Chapter 16. Jake will then also assure a two turn

in chapter 12 without any "luck" on Marths survival.

Yeah I agree with this now. That was what I meant when I said Gradivus' strategy was better. Initially the boots was meant to save a warp use in Chapter 17 so that I could skip 17x, but Jake seems to work more effectively. I'm a little sad to lose the boots, but overall it seems like the correct decision.

I also think that Jake can get a crit on the chapter 17 boss, Michallis and Medius in the final chapter or kill the other manakete. At worst he can chip.

If this is the case, then Jagen might even need to learn Warp, since he Lena can Hammerne in 22 if Jake can crit kill Michalis.

[SSJDennis]

Yeah I agree with this now. That was what I meant when I said Gradivus' strategy was better. Initially the boots was meant to save a warp use in Chapter 17 so that I could skip 17x, but Jake seems to work more effectively. I'm a little sad to lose the boots, but overall it seems like the correct decision.

If this is the case, then Jagen might even need to learn Warp, since he Lena can Hammerne in 22 if Jake can crit kill Michalis.

Yes, losing out on Boots is sad. But you would only save 1 turn in the total playthrough, so... Why walk when you can warp?

I guess if you crit Medius in the final chapter, you should be okay with just two warps.

For chapter 20, Warp Marth to Hammerne. Warp Wendell / Boah below Marth. Warp Marth back to Lena. Make Lena use Hammerne of a Warp staff. Next turn Warp Shiida and Marth and win the battle. This takes two turns, not the three you mentioned before.

Ch22 can probably be done with a single Warp, if Jake crits.

I also start to wonder if Excalibur is worth it. But I think recruiting Merric will save 1 turn, because he can recruit Wendell, instead of Marth.

Edited September 29, 2015 by SSJDennis

[ruadath]

Ch22 can probably be done with a single Warp, if Jake crits.

True, but at this point it's not like conserving warp usages matter much.

I also start to wonder if Excalibur is worth it. But I think recruiting Merric will save 1 turn, because he can recruit Wendell, instead of Marth.

I'm not planning on recruiting Wendell, though I will kill him for his Barrier (he does drop it, right?)

Edited September 29, 2015 by ruadath

[ruadath]

For chapter 20, Warp Marth to Hammerne. Warp Wendell / Boah below Marth. Warp Marth back to Lena. Make Lena use Hammerne of a Warp staff. Next turn Warp Shiida and Marth and win the battle. This takes two turns, not the three you mentioned before.

Don't have enough warps to do this; only 1 warp remaining at this point.

[SSJDennis]

Don't have enough warps to do this; only 1 warp remaining at this point.

How on Earth did you burn up the Ch17 and Ch17x Warp staffs in 3 chapters?

Edited September 29, 2015 by SSJDennis

[ruadath]

How on Earth did you burn up the Ch17 and Ch17x Warp staffs in 3 chapters?

Skipping Chapter 17x (as in not going). Fullskip for Chapter 18+19 (4 uses) and halfskip for Chapter 17 (5 uses). I use one on Marth to get Hammerne, and then I can't use Warp again without it breaking so it has to be Hammerned first.

[SSJDennis]

Skipping Chapter 17x (as in not going). Fullskip for Chapter 18+19 (4 uses) and halfskip for Chapter 17 (5 uses). I use one on Marth to get Hammerne, and then I can't use Warp again without it breaking so it has to be Hammerned first.

Okay... So you save 2 turns doing so. Then spend 1 more at chapter 20. Sounds good. Not sure if I like the whole killing THE pope idea. But better be safe and turn Nabarl into a Curate as soon as chapter4. This way he will be ready to warp when he needs to. You probably don't have enough turns to turn Jagen into a Warp user, because he is busy attacking. And when he isn't, he probably just gets a single turn to use Barrier.

[ruadath]

I just counted (although I might have made mistakes): Jeigan has 18 turns free after Chapter 5 and before Chapter 20 to use staves. So if refrain from using him in combat in Chapter 5 (and manage to have him heal every turn there), then he can hit C staves after the first turn of Chapter 20, although I would probably prefer to keep him as a DK there. I don't think Nabarl can make it until like the final few chapters, since he needs 38 heals to hit C staves.

[SSJDennis]

If I am doing it right, then ANYONE would need at least need 23 staff uses to hit C-staff as a Bishop. Nabarl still needs to promote though...

He also needs 15 Heal staff uses before he gets to D-rank. Jagen already has this, but wants to fight before he starts wielding a staff.

Would it be possible for Nabarl to gain a level in chapter 3? With killing both thiefs, then just trade the Killing Edge over? This would put him at level 4.

Potentially heal 13 times in chapter 4 up to 9. Which still doesn't give him D-rank. So you probably are right that Jagen would do better to change into a staff bot when he ain't fighting, and if you are warp skipping a chapter. He can ALWAYS use Barrier, while Nabarl would still require to reach level 10, which might be hard with lowish EXP gain. To bad Hardin comes like one level to late and you skip Wendell.

[ruadath]

A question regarding some of the game mechanics that I am unfamiliar with: can I forge the same weapon twice? For example can I give Marth +3 Mt on his Rapier in one chapter, and then another +2 Mt on the next chapter? Also, is it more cost effective to do it in one go, or is it the same as doing it separately?

[Gradivus.]

You can't