ruadath Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 So I need to calculate in advance how much Mt I want to forge onto weapons like the Rapier, Wing Spear? Can/Do I get second copies of them? And do you guys know any benchmarks for them off the top of your head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 So I need to calculate in advance how much Mt I want to forge onto weapons like the Rapier, Wing Spear? Can/Do I get second copies of them? And do you guys know any benchmarks for them off the top of your head? You can buy a second Rapier (ch8, ch11, ch15, ch18) / Wing Spear (ch8, ch16, ch22). You probably want a second Wing Spear, but not Rapier. Chapter 8 is probably the best (only?) place to get them. Since you will be rushing future chapters, so no time to shop. I believe any cavalier / Shiida can go to the shop to collect the weapon. Marth gets warped to the boss, kills and seizes next turn. No clue on the might needed. Marth just needs it for early game bosses, which can also be crit. rigged with a standard Rapier. I would just try it without and when you start to struggle, decide whether or not Marth will actually find more enemies at that point. Wing Spear seems more important and the Ballista weapons. Maybe the forged Levin Sword that Dondon used? But that would only go for 1 chapter I think. You also probably want a forged Wyrmslayer for ch24 / Endgame. Shiida gets C-swords as a Swordmaster at base I believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) The strongest General boss Marth has to face is C7's, who he needs 33 effective atk against. In DSFE and past, the WTD penalty is applied after the effective mt is calculated, rather than before*. 9 str Marth needs a +3 forge, 6-8 str means he needs +4 mt. *example: Marth has 5 str and a 10 mt forged Rapier. Against a lance user, he pulls 5+10*3-1 = 34 atk instead of 5+(10-1)*3=32 atk as it would be with the pre-DS system Edited September 30, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Chapter 3 is nearly done at this point. A quick question though: how useful do you think Nabarl and his Killing Edge are to the playthrough? Originally the plan was to recruit him on turn 5, trade chain the Killing Edge to Ogma, and then kill the boss with Killing Edge!Ogma crit and regular attack Silver Lance!Jagen. However, it works equally well to go for an Iron Sword!Ogma regular attack and a Silver Lance crit from Jagen. The latter option would also allow me to get a hefty chunk more EXP for Caeda (I think 60) which would amount to an extra level before the next Chapter. So which option do you think I should go for: an extra level for Caeda, or Nabarl and his Killing Edge? My guess is that the Killing Edge is worth more just because of monetary purposes, but it is important note that Caeda (likely) needs to promote by Chapter 11 (she has to Javelin crit a boss after recruiting Jake, and the +4 Str will save a ton of money in Javelin forging), and that getting her an extra level could save money due to less forging. I'm not certain, however, and I don't know how much EXP Caeda will have by Chapter 11. EDIT: Actually, it's probably OK; she'll easily be able to double the boss, and thus only needs roughly 20atk for a crit+regular kill. She can get that from 7 base mt + whatever her Str is (especially with Master Seal, but not necessary) and perhaps a weapon rank bonus. But I'd still be happy to hear your opinion. Edited September 30, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 enemies have dick for luck in this game so aside from potentially making it easier for marth to survive AND crit bosses for 1 warp 2 turns i doubt the killing edge matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Nabarl could be useful because he can reclass to cav and have access to the killing edge, which puts him ahead of Cain, Abel and Ogma in usefulness. But I doubt either are necessary for lowest turns, so go for levels on Caeda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 enemies have dick for luck in this game so aside from potentially making it easier for marth to survive AND crit bosses for 1 warp 2 turns i doubt the killing edge matters. Marth is probably never going to hit the necessary weapon ranks to wield the Killing Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Nabarl could be useful because he can reclass to cav and have access to the killing edge, which puts him ahead of Cain, Abel and Ogma in usefulness. But I doubt either are necessary for lowest turns, so go for levels on Caeda. Actually, this could probably be really useful in Chapter 4 for clearing a path for Jeigan to reach the boss. Hmmm, I'm not too sure about what to do... EDIT: I should also note that at this point, the poll is completely redundant, as it requires saving an extra warp use, which negates whatever benefit we get from saving a turn in Chapter 20. Edited September 30, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) You can remove the poll by clicking edit poll or whatever it is called. Marth should get the C4 bosskill with a rapier crit on turn 3. Use a meatshield to ensure that the horsemen don't both attack him. Edited September 30, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Chapter 3 is nearly done at this point. A quick question though: how useful do you think Nabarl and his Killing Edge are to the playthrough? Nabarl only adds money with his Killing Edge. Don't forget you skipped the 10k village before. Shiida probably doesn't need the extra EXP. Still, looking forward to your chapter 3 clear anyway :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Nabarl only adds money with his Killing Edge. Don't forget you skipped the 10k village before. Shiida probably doesn't need the extra EXP. Still, looking forward to your chapter 3 clear anyway :) I actually decided to follow other people's advice and not pick up Nabarl. Nabarl's Killing Edge is only worth 1500 and sells for less than that, while the extra EXP on Caeda is pretty invaluable. Remeber, she also has to crit kill a brigand in Chapter 9, so I need her to be as strong as possible to save money on a Javelin forge. Anyway, the route is now complete, I just need to memorize and record it. Hopefully it will be up in a couple of hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 how much exp does she get by going west anyway? She could potentially kill two thieves+ while recruiting Navarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) how much exp does she get by going west anyway? She could potentially kill two thieves+ while recruiting Navarre. Hm, she actually gets exactly 100 EXP going west (same as the two thieves). But the thing is, at least as far as I know, she has no reliable method of killing both of these thieves in time (and surviving the rest of the enemies) without support from some other units, and I basically need all/most of them to clear things out on the western front. Unless you have a better idea of how to have Caeda solo the east part of the map? EDIT: I took a look at dondon's strategy and he only gets 70 EXP for her, and using his strategy, I wouldn't pull Nabarl far enough out to get him to trade chain his Killing Edge to the western party in 5 turns. EDIT 2: Right, Caeda only reaches them on turn 3, and therefore can at most kill 1 thief while still recruiting Nabarl. Even if she gets 70-80 EXP from doing so, I think the extra EXP might be worth a bit more than Nabarl, so I'll stick with that. Having her on the western side also makes the strategy overall much more reliable as well (the Killing Edge won't reach Ogma in time if we are giving Caeda thief EXP), so I think it is the better option. Edited September 30, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Chapter 3 has now been uploaded! Nothing terribly interesting goes on here, but Marth does have to fullmove every turn to get to the seize point in time, which means that some interesting tactics have to be employed to ensure that he doesn't get killed and a path is clear for him every turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 you still haven't set game speed to fast, these enemy phases are killing me man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 you still haven't set game speed to fast, these enemy phases are killing me man. Oh sorry, my bad; I'll make sure to do it on the next one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 In anticipation for Chapter 4, any suggestions for a custom name for Marth's Rapier (right now, all I've got is Wo Dao, Longsword, and Falchion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 How about selfie stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Marth should get the C4 bosskill with a rapier crit on turn 3. Use a meatshield to ensure that the horsemen don't both attack him. Marth has no chance of hitting level 5 before Chapter 7 for 9 Str. However, if we are 3 turning Chapter 7, it seems reasonably plausible to send Caeda toward the boss instead of Marth; I think the journey seems pretty survivable, especially if we are able to aggro some of the enemies away from her with cavs or Jagen. This would save a nice 2G or so (we could use the 3Mt forge everywhere else for Marth), so do you think this sounds possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I guess it depends, I thought a stronger Marth helps for some of the midgame maps but you can give the kill to Jagen if you can reduce the silver forge cost that way. Still, warp Marf on turn 3 to feed him a Horseman if realistic. Recall that he must kill C6's boss too. Edited October 1, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 I guess it depends, I thought a stronger Marth helps for some of the midgame maps but you can give the kill to Jagen if you can reduce the silver forge cost that way. Still, warp Marf on turn 3 to feed him a Horseman if realistic. Recall that he must kill C6's boss too. Sorry, I think I confused you; I'm talking about Caeda taking the boss kill in Chapter 7, not Jagen taking the kill in Chapter 4. In fact Jagen can't do the kill in Chapter 4, since as a Paladin he gets clogged up by the bridge (without support from the other characters, who don't arrive in time), and as a Dracoknight he gets doubled and killed by the Horsemen. He can easily aggro them by the river though (I've confirmed this), to ensure Marth gets an easy, safe kill on the boss. Stronger Marth definitely helps with midgame and is probably essential for his survival on Chapter 20... but I think Caeda still takes priority over him early game. Anyway, do you think she can make it to the boss in Chapter 7 without getting killed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) If Shiida is > Marth in terms of exp priority depends on whether she'll be your bosskiller. If you use the ballista strats, Shiida has tons of opportunities to get exp that don't deprive Marth of his bosskills (C4 horseman, C5's boss and so on), so I'd just feed them to him since you'll be in trouble if he gets ORKOed by C20's Brave Lance!Paladins (like 26 atk I think). Killing C7's boss with Shiida looks possible, she gets exposed to the upper Cav reinforcement only, so you can probably find a way to use an AI bait for each of the 3 fliers and the reinforcement Cav if you want her to kill the boss. Jagen also can get C4's bosskill as a DK if you can kill both archers on turn 3 (Marth can remove a Horseman too), but idk how well you can pull it off. Name the Rapier forge General. Yeah sorry I like my generic forge names Edited October 1, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Here is my tentative plan/EXP distribution for Chapter 4: Caeda kills the two thieves and the hunter near the second thief. (she has Abel and Cain for support) Marth gets the boss kill and possibly a fighter near the beginning of the chapter. Jagen charges west to aggro the horsemen; he gets 2 javelin hits in on EP2, and possibly a kill on the last turn (he has to retreat on turn 3). Alternatively, we could have him go Bishop and gain slightly more EXP (plus invaluable staff EXP) from 4 Mends, although this would require sacking a unit (perhaps Cav Gordin?) to draw out the hunters. The second option might be worth it just because of the staff EXP. In particular, we can't have Jagen get 4 staff uses in Chapter 5 (during the first turn there is no one to heal). On the other hand, I don't think I really need a third warper until like Chapter 22 or so, which means I might be able to get by without this kind of sacrifice... Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Before I move on with the playthrough, I'm actually thinking of redoing Chapter 2. A lot of people (including myself) were unhappy with the fact that I had to rig 4 dodges for Ogma (in addition to Marth and Jagen's critical), and after examining the chapter more thoroughly, I've realized that this is entirely unnecessary. I'm currently working on a strategy that requires only 1 Ogma dodge (and no others) on a phase where he is attacked by 3 enemies; dodging any of them works. It should be noted that a zero dodge playthrough looks possible, but would require killing Castor (we can lure him out with Jagen fullmoving on turn 2, then kill him so Ogma only faces 2 enemies on that one turn) but I don't really want to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) I recommend against replaying, if anything just record a run-irrelevant video to show it's possible imo since it doesn't affect the continuation of the playthrough. Edited October 2, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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