ruadath Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 I recommend against replaying, if anything just record a run-irrelevant video to show it's possible imo since it doesn't affect the continuation of the playthrough. Well, it does get Caeda 50-60 more EXP... so it might be worth it. It's not like Chapter 3 is particularly difficult to get a playthrough of anyway. I might also be less lazy and try and get Jagen a better level up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'd also say, move on. You'll find that the 50-60 EXP gain on Shiida won't matter in the long run. First finish the run, then improve afterwards if you still feel like it. I mean, its only chapter 2 :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Here is the new playthrough of Chapter 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTUM9gHrnpY I accidentally saved over my state at the beginning of my run, so there is a little hiccup between the end of turn 1 and the beginning of turn 2 due to me rerecording. In terms of actual strategy, you'll see Ogma doing a lot less and Caeda, Abel, and Cain doing significantly more which results in them getting a good chunk of EXP much earlier. Let me know what you guys think! EDIT: Sorry Irysa! I just realized I forgot to turn the game speed up again... Edited October 3, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Abel and Cain will be pretty unimportant, no matter how good they are in warpless. Ogma isn't better though. Edited October 3, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 The revision of Chapter 3 should be posted soon as well. I sacrificed 10 EXP on Caeda to recruit Navarre, but I think it was well worth it, expecially considering Cain gained something like ~50 extra EXP taking the kills that she would have on the west. Speaking of which, my policy so far in this playthrough has been to prioritize (non-Marth) EXP as follows: Caeda, Jagen, Cain, Abel, (whoever else, probably Barst next or something). Is this a reasonable order? Or would you recommend changing it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Since you skip 17x, might aswell try to recruit as much as possible when possible and keep everyone alive. But thats just me I guess. Free Killing Edge is never a bad thing I'd day. And what is 10 EXP in a long warping run anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 New video is up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Still looks good, but if you can't save turns, keep in mind that Abel / Cain etc won't help you save any in mid-/late game. They probably won't grow strong enough to dominate chapter9, which is probably the last battle you'll "fight" for the full length. Did you decide on doing Ch4 with recruiting Merric yet? I think Marth can reach Merric within turn4? Then warp him and kill the boss on EP to seize? Or do you plan on doing this faster? With Merric you can recruit (Dracoknight) Wendell, which I can see helping you out big time in some chapters. Still your choice though. Edited October 3, 2015 by SSJDennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSJDennis Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Nvm above, you can beat Chapter4 in 4 turns. Paladin Jagen can reach the right square at turn 2. Lures the cavaliers and both Horsemen. He needs to survive (only) two hits. Warp Marth, kill the boss and seize at turn 4. Shiida can kill the thief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Nvm above, you can beat Chapter4 in 4 turns. Paladin Jagen can reach the right square at turn 2. Lures the cavaliers and both Horsemen. He needs to survive (only) two hits. Warp Marth, kill the boss and seize at turn 4. Shiida can kill the thief. Yeah, that's the idea. Caeda can actually get 2 thieves during this time. Marth needs some company since he'll head NE for the first 2 turns to get a kill (and level) before getting warped on turn 3. Jagen will get whatever he gets; I may send him some backup to help him get an extra kill on the last turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 A couple of important decisions do need to be made this chapter, however: 1) Does Marth get a +3 Mt or +4 Mt Rapier? The answer to this question basically depends on whether or not we want him or Caeda to take the Chapter 7 boss kill. Having Caeda take the boss kill means having her survive the journey there, and it is unclear to me whether or not she will be able to do so. 2) Is Jagen our 3rd warper? The answer to this question is most likely yes, and if so, we need to allocate staff practice for Jagen. He needs 23 staff uses to make it to rank C; between Chapters 6-19 he is free for all except 9-11, so he gets 18 out of his 23 uses from there. If we also allow him to heal and not fight in Chapter 20 (Midia/Astram can take over his decoy duties along with Caeda), he gets another 3 staff uses, which means he can hit C staves at the end of Chapter 22, just in time to become a 3rd warper in 23, where Lena needs to Hammerne the Warp staff. This means he can take part in the fight in both Chapter 4 and 5. But this is cutting it pretty close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) lol @ Caeda surviving that Hunter attacking her in Chapter 3. The revised Chapter 2 is definitely an improvement, although I find it funny how we tend to intuitively find it bad to have to rig dodges but we're okay with rigging everything to hit. And thanks for (finally) remembering to set the game speed to max. WRT Chapter 7, what's your TC estimate for that map/how many warps are you using? Edited October 3, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 lol @ Caeda surviving that Hunter attacking her in Chapter 3. Yeah, that wasn't just for EXP gain though; I needed her to decoy the hunter so it didn't attack Marth/Ogma who need to stay at full HP (although Ogma dodged everything anyway, so it didn't matter, but the Hunter probably would have targeted Marth because doubling) The revised Chapter 2 is definitely an improvement, although I find it funny how we tend to intuitively find it bad to have to rig dodges but we're okay with rigging everything to hit. And thanks for (finally) remembering to set the game speed to max. Well the first couple Javelin throws have not so great hit rates, but after that there is only one or two Javelin throws before I could have nominally used the map save. WRT Chapter 7, what's your TC estimate for that map/how many warps are you using? 3 turns, 1 warp. Strat is either warp Marth on turn 2 and kill boss, or have Caeda fly down in 3 turns and kill boss, then warp Marth to seize. If Marth kills, he needs the +4 Mt Rapier forge. I think Caeda can get him with her current stats, no forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think as long as you clear Mercs and Fliers out on Turn 2 then Caeda can get there safely. The cav reinforcements shouldn't be able to reach her if you put her on the right tile, although the centre one will unless you block it with DK Jeigan or something, which means you'll probaby have to rig her to crit or rig the boss to miss to have her not die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think as long as you clear Mercs and Fliers out on Turn 2 then Caeda can get there safely. The cav reinforcements shouldn't be able to reach her if you put her on the right tile, although the centre one will unless you block it with DK Jeigan or something, which means you'll probaby have to rig her to crit or rig the boss to miss to have her not die. I can make sure she avoids the mercs, but how would I get the fliers to die? Assuming Jagen is a combat unit in Chapter 5, he is unavailable to go Dracoknight here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Blick them with Sedgar and Wolf. That's probably not enough by itself though and a lack of Excalibur makes the Draco a serious problem. The bigger problem is no DK though as you've pointed out, since I guess Jagen has to work on his staff rank. Marth probably has to kill the boss then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 True, though I think Jake will be pretty crucial by saving warp uses (which are net turn shaves) in various chapters where he can OHKO bosses with crits (12, 16, 17, 17x, 22, F), otoh the benchmarks for the C16-C17x bosses look like a pain (36 Atk for C16, the others are slightly lower, but above 30). A big stonehoist forge along with both energy drops is probably required, and for the late bosskills, the Pachyderm should be obtained (C20 done in 1 turn, Sniper!Shiida recruits Lorenz and snipes the Ballistician with the C17x Longbow) and forged. I can actually envision a bunch of 1-turn clears for lategame depending on how many warp uses remain. A quick question, Gradivus: how are we possibly going to get Jake 36 Atk for Chapter 16? As far as I can tell, we only have access to Arrowspate at this point, so even with +10 Mt forge, Jake would still need 14 Str, which is way too much for him to get in a short period of time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) You can obtain the stonehoist on turn 1 of chapter 14, it has 15 mt I myself am not quite convinced that it's reachable honestly, Jagen might be able to feed C11's boss to him in order to obtain the energy drop + a level (-> 8 str 2 skl, removing the need to forge anything for C12 bosskilling), Jake kills C12's boss (9 str), gets a level off a C12 mook + C13 thief (10 str) but I'm honestly not sure if you can reach that, it might be impossible. I estimate he can get 12 str at best with intensive optimisation, which would end up necessitating a +9 mt stonehoist, I forgot how expensive that is but it very certainly costs a lot of money. imo just exp plan and if it's unaffordable, turn C16 into a 2-turn. Edited October 3, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 You can obtain the stonehoist on turn 1 of chapter 14, it has 15 mt I myself am not quite convinced that it's reachable honestly, Jagen might be able to feed C11's boss to him in order to obtain the energy drop + a level (-> 8 str 2 skl, removing the need to forge anything for C12 bosskilling), Jake kills C12's boss (9 str), gets a level off a C12 mook + C13 thief (10 str) but I'm honestly not sure if you can reach that, it might be impossible. I estimate he can get 12 str at best with intensive optimisation, which would end up necessitating a +9 mt stonehoist, I forgot how expensive that is but it very certainly costs a lot of money. imo just exp plan and if it's unaffordable, turn C16 into a 2-turn. OK, good to know that we have access to Stonehoist. A couple of questions/remarks though: I think we only have two fliers (Jagen+Caeda) for Chapter 11, so Jagen has to visit Ana. Caeda has to recruit Jake on turn 2 (Jagen only reaches the village on turn 2), so that means Jake needs a crit-kill to take care of the enemy... cleric? for the Energy Drop. Or do you have something else in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 the manakete has the energy drop, so it probably can't be obtained. Jake also has 1 skl at base, so he wouldn't be able to crit anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) the manakete has the energy drop, so it probably can't be obtained. Jake also has 1 skl at base, so he wouldn't be able to crit anything. In that case, I don't see it being possible to get Jake 6 levels between Chapter 11 and Chapter 15 (1+2+2+2+1=8 turns) Perhaps we could go for a turn 1 Marth warp to kill Khozen, Caeda kills something else (non-boss), and then pray that everyone survives? This seems highly unlikely though... EDIT: I should note that if it turns out to be impossible to use Jake to save a turn on Chapter 16, I would rather not recruit him and instead get the Boots for Caeda (equal turns, much less money spent, more EXP for Caeda and Marth, Jagen gets an extra turn for Staff EXP) Edited October 3, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Also, FWIW I did a quick calculation and a 10 Mt Stonehoist forge costs 33600G, which seems... just barely affordable (I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) you'll have 5k gold from C6, 2k from C8's arena and 15k from C3 = 22k I'm not sure if you can get 11,6k just from selling weaponry (+ speedwings), but it seems like it could be possible, if very barely so. Killing Khozen with Marth looks extremely questionable, you need 25 atk which he's far from plus marth would have to face like 7 >90 true hit attacks that 2HKO him. Edited October 4, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) you'll have 5k gold from C6, 2k from C8's arena and 15k from C3 = 22k I'm not sure if you can get 11,6k just from selling weaponry (+ speedwings), but it seems like it could be possible, if very barely so. Killing Khozen with Marth looks extremely questionable, you need 25 atk which he's far from given the lack of silver swords (and probably not enough wexp aswell), plus marth would have to face like 7 >90 true hit attacks that 2HKO him. Don't forget about the small bullion from Chapter 6! (although I suppose you could estimate that the money from there will be spent on other forges). But you're right, it doesn't look like we have chance of getting that energy drop... so do we just give up on it (and Jake as well)? EDIT: I don't know how the EXP formulas work in this game, but here is what I figure could be the max EXP via kills we can get for Jake before Chapter : Chapter 11: Boss kill (Caeda forges Javelin just strong enough to almost kill boss) Chapter 12: Thief kill + Boss kill Chapter 13: Something + Thief Chapter 14: some kill Chapter 15: regular kill + maybe thief I don't think this is enough for 6 levels... Edited October 3, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I counted the 5k bullion from C6. Jake needs +6 str (600 exp) to do it with a +10 mt forge - the best he can probably get in C11 is a peg knight, then a thief + boss in C12, a thief in C13, a knight + archer in C14 and a bishop + mage in C15 Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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