Phoenix Mode

[Landmaster]

Perhaps it would make some of the harder difficulties of Fates easier to bear. My impression is that Pheonix mode is listed with Classic, and Casual, rather than the difficulty levels of the game.

In Lunatic mode, the ability to resurrect in-battle may allow average players to complete those chapters. And who knows, maybe there will be a difficulty level in the future that forces players to ABUSE pheonix mode! :P

Lunatic and Phoenix together is impossible though.

[Avarice Shadow]

If I was asked this question when it was first announced then it would be met with pure hatred and disgust. Now though I don't mind it, if it brings new players, then that in turn means more Fire Emblem titles in the future. Although I will never touch the mode (never even touched Casual in FE12 or FE13 and I won't start now). I'll say that it's good in the long run.

IS can make the easiest mode a literal press to win button and I won't give a fuck as long as I get a good solid Lunatic out of it

if they took Normal Phoenix and labelled THAT Lunatic and sold it to me then I'd have a problem

This sums up my feelings 100%. Edited July 27, 2015 by Mystical_Ice

[Jedi]

Perhaps it would make some of the harder difficulties of Fates easier to bear. My impression is that Pheonix mode is listed with Classic, and Casual, rather than the difficulty levels of the game.

In Lunatic mode, the ability to resurrect in-battle may allow average players to complete those chapters. And who knows, maybe there will be a difficulty level in the future that forces players to ABUSE pheonix mode! :P

It's only allowed with Normal mode.

[You]

Lunatic and Phoenix together is impossible though.

It's only allowed with Normal mode.

Drat. That stinks. :( What would you guys think if Phoenix mode was allowed with harder difficulties?

[Thor Odinson]

Prolly still wouldn't care

I mean it might allow for some interesting shit but as long as it's not mandatory to beat any given mode it's off my lawn and none of my business

Hell you can "balance" around phoenix and as long as I can still find a way to beat it on classic nogrind I'm satisfied

[Landmaster]

Drat. That stinks. :( What would you guys think if Phoenix mode was allowed with harder difficulties?

Kinda seems to ruin the point of wanting a harder challenge, imo. Why choose Hard or Lunatic in the first place when you're not playing it to its fullest?

[Minischew]

Kinda seems to ruin the point of wanting a harder challenge, imo. Why choose Hard or Lunatic in the first place when you're not playing it to its fullest?

I guess you can use it to check out the map and the enemies? Iirc, there was this particular spot in Chapter 2 for Lunatic+ Awakening where the enemies would not, for some reason, attack. (Or maybe that was just a glitch on my part, idk.) I had stumbled across it by accident-- and I had been completely panicking because I had thought Miriel was a goner-- but Phoenix Mode would let you check out those peculiarities without the fear of losing.

Phoenix Mode allows you to test out anything (e.g. How much of that army situated north will rush down when I send this unit into that mage's attack range?), which basically lets you create your own walkthrough.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Minischew

[Ebony]

Don't care. Though, I will admit... the enemies having Phoenix Mode would have been interesting. Maybe find a way to kill them all in one turn, or have a hold out situation, escape maybe?

[eclipse]

If this means that more people find it fun, why not. As long as there's a mode for those of us who like spending half an hour staring at a map, trying to figure out the best way out of THIS mess, I'm fine with it. It won't affect how I enjoy the game, so why should I care?

[Khid]

I would've voted for "Don't Care" but then I remembered my sister sucked at Awakening on Normal Casual

So yes there are people that struggle that badly and yes it's a good thing.

[Nanima]

I have no problem with people playing Phoenix mode if they have trouble witht his game. I am sure there are a number of people who will not have the patience to play through Nohr even on Normal/Casual, and they should at least be able to finish it.

However it feels a bit like the Classic mode is getting neglected. In older FE games we used to get special dialogue if a unit was dead before a certain point. It didn't need to be a big thing, just a small extra for players who decided to take their character deaths without resetting. Now it feels like Casual is the more 'standard' way to play the game, and there are no more alternate scenarios

Outside of maybe Kaze, but his potential death happens in a cutscene

.

Even the death lines are just one generic sentence, with no one even bothering to reply or react to it. I miss how in the Tellius games we'd have chapter specific dialogues when certain characters died, some of them even chapter dependant.

In Fates we should at least get those things for the main character, but because Casual is the new standard difficulty and most people aren't going to play on classic or take their unit deaths, they won't spend time on something like that.

Again, I have no problem with the lower difficulty itself and certainly won't mock anyone for playing on them, but I just find it sad that Classic deaths are now more of an afterthought.

[capmalachi]

It's one of the best decisions they've made with this game, and since I know what people can be like I'm going to say that no, I'm not being sarcastic when I say that, I am 100% serious in saying that this is a brilliant feature to add to the game. An optional easier mode means more people playing the game, and it doesn't affect the 'veterans' in the slightest, other than making it more likely that there will be a next game for them to play. I'll never understand why so many people care how other people who they have never and will never meet are playing a video game.

Edited July 27, 2015 by capmalachi

[Alpha2090]

Its 4 am here (and I'm breaking lurker code by posting), so you'll have to forgive the abrupt nature of this post.

Though I'll expand in future posts if someone likes, my personal grievance with Phoenix mode is that, from my perspective anyway, it demonstrates a complete, and utter unwillingness to learn how to play the game the way it was meant to played. People may claim to want to see the story or preserve their characters but are completely unwilling to put in the time and effort needed to secure said rewards for themselves. They seem to just want all of the goodies without having to endure the toil formerly required to attain them. That mentality just sort of saddens me as what makes Fire Emblem such a treasure for me is the experience of overcoming the obstacles the game throws in one's path (and not just overcoming it, but learning to overcome it in such a way that all characters survive the encounter). Without these obstacles requiring one to consider their every move, the reward of character development and story progression is significantly diminished and its value is largely lost.

Alas, at the end of the day, people will play how they like. Sure, it won't affect my experience at all, but still, I suppose I wish people were more willing to learn how to play rather than go through the experience in a mode where the game practically hands you victory on a silver platter just for showing up.

But that's just one random internet dweller's opinion. Do with it what you will.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Alpha2090

[Flying Shogi]

Even the death lines are just one generic sentence, with no one even bothering to reply or react to it. I miss how in the Tellius games we'd have chapter specific dialogues when certain characters died, some of them even chapter dependant.

In Fates we should at least get those things for the main character, but because Casual is the new standard difficulty and most people aren't going to play on classic or take their unit deaths, they won't spend time on something like that.

I believe Chrom will say something if Robin was defeated in battle.

Its 4 am here (and I'm breaking lurker code by posting), so you'll have to forgive the abrupt nature of this post.

First, just want to say that your profile picture is perfect for this sentence.

Though I'll expand in future posts if someone likes, my personal grievance with Phoenix mode is that, from my perspective anyway, it demonstrates a complete, and utter unwillingness to learn how to play the game the way it was meant to played. People may claim to want to see the story or preserve their characters but are completely unwilling to put in the time and effort needed to secure said rewards for themselves. They seem to just want all of the goodies without having to endure the toil formerly required to attain them. That mentality just sort of saddens me as what makes Fire Emblem such a treasure for me is the experience of overcoming the obstacles the game throws in one's path (and not just overcoming it, but learning to overcome it in such a way that all characters survive the encounter). Without these obstacles requiring one to consider their every move, the reward of character development and story progression is significantly diminished and its value is largely lost.

Alas, at the end of the day, people will play how they like. Sure, it won't affect my experience at all, but still, I suppose I wish people were more willing to learn how to play rather than go through the experience in a mode where the game practically hands you victory on a silver platter just for showing up.

I don't think it's fair to call a series beginner to have an "utter unwillingness to learn how to play the game" when they're still figuring things out. I do have to say that while Phoenix Mode is a great way to bring more fans into FE, it can indirectly serve as a turn off to the traditional experience once they decide to play on harder difficulty modes because there's no longer that crutch. I started with Sacred Stones and had trouble with FE7(can't remember the difficulty) because the world map spoiled me but I eventually figured things out and was able to beat it. However, I do have to say that each person is different in their determination to finish the game. If you constantly see the Game Over screen, wouldn't you step away from the game for a little while? And if they decide that FE isn't the type of series for them then that's fine. At least they tried the game, even if it's on the game's easier mode.

Also, can someone explain to me how exactly Phoenix mode handing the win to the player? I just don't see it. Sure,charging into enemy territory isn't the brightest idea in the world but even with poor resource management, if someone has beaten the game, they're doing something right.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Magician Lugh

[Joker with Glasses]

I won't be using tye Phoenix mode but I have nothing against it. It can be a good firsthand experience for newcomers who have never played that kind of game before.

[cloudropis]

You wouldn't say the reason that the series sold poorly for a long time!

...And to why that casual exists now, because people have been getting scared of losing their characters.

Yeah, I really doubt the series sold poorly until now because people were scared of losing characters.

Anyway, I get that casual players may need a more lenient experience but Casual mode covers it already. Except for fare exceptions a FE's chapter difficulty never comes from "will I be able to beat this chapter?", but from "will I be able to beat this chapter without losing units I'm training?", so having characters revive after every one eliminates basically the 99% of a FE's difficulty.

Think, how many chapters in FE6, or 10, or 5, would've went much smoother if you could just throw units in dangerous situations because they wouldn't die instead of carefully positioning them around so no one would get killed? Phoenix mode pushes it even furhter as there is basically no consequence to the player's action. And I can't find a reason for why a new player, even playing Casual mode, wouldn't want to retry a chapter and become better at the game instead of just claming "it's too difficult, I met a Game Over once this automatically means this is too difficult for me and I shouldn't even try at learning the mechanics and thinking".

[NekoKnight]

I'm going to vote bad.

I can stand behind casual as a less punishing version of classic. New players less adept at strategy or perhaps just people who want a less focused experience can enjoy casual and learn how the game is played. There is no learning in phoenix mode and you aren't encouraged to put in the effort to engage in the genre. It reaches the point where you aren't playing the game. There aren't even any special rewards for playing higher difficulties.

So what is the point if not gameplay? Here's where my argument becomes controversial. Some people will praise the feature as widening the audience but I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. When you take away the gameplay what you are left with is the story and side features. Story is a fine subject to discuss (granted, we haven't had a good story in a long time) so I'll leave that aside. The side features, that have become an increasingly large part of the draw since Awakening is where I put my foot down. Fan service, shipping, gimmicky characters and player worship are okay in moderation but Fates doesn't know the meaning of the word. They're going for mass appeal (further facilitated by Phoenix mode) and this is something that affects everybody. When an alarming number of fans are playing the game primarily for these side features, the priorities of the developers changes to accommodate them. People can say "Fire Emblem is all about shipping and fanservice!" and their opinion will be just as valid as someone who says it's about strategy.

Mind you, the gameplay in Fates is still solid but I'm still embarrassed to recommend the game because of its other "features".

[The DanMan]

The given reason for it's existence is for people to enjoy the story stress-free, which IMO is a joke because... you've got to have heard about the story.

But seriously, to echo NekoKnight, it's there for lowest common denominator appeal; and the more people they have coming in for badly-written romance supports and blatant fanservice, the more there will be of that and less of a focus on the main game (from a consumer and developer standpoint).

Edited July 27, 2015 by The DanMan

[Minischew]

To be honest, I'm not really seeing the argument of the con side, simply because it seems too farfetched. An alarming number of consumers do not play FE:Fates's for its side features. There may be a couple that do by utilizing Phoenix Mode, but those people do not determine the majority of the consumer base. Hence, all they'll receive is the optional material.

I know people get worried about how the developers may tend to focus on the gimmicks instead, but I hardly think that's the case. If they've gone to the point that they decided to redesign the durability system, adjust the weapon triangle, add new chapter missions, introduce new classes and skills...

...They clearly understand that they're aiming for an audience with a hunger for tactical gameplay. They're not going to suddenly ditch the main story and gameplay and prioritize the optional fanservice. The presence of fanservice should actually serve as an indicator of that, because despite this game being riddled with fanservice, I've mostly seen praise for its gameplay.

(The main story is a different debate altogether, but I think that may have been harmed more due to executive meddling and marketing strategies for IK DLC, rather than excessive fanservice.)

Fanservice does not harm the game in any way. It's optional. You can ignore it. I honestly don't know why Phoenix Mode upsets so many people, when it can be ignored or even exploited for optimization purposes.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Minischew

[NekoKnight]

Fanservice does not harm the game in any way. It's optional. You can ignore it. I honestly don't know why Phoenix Mode upsets so many people, when it can be ignored or even exploited for optimization purposes.

I wish the battle panties were easier to ignore. I like zettai ryouiki as much as the next person but... please let my female soldiers wear pants.

[Othin]

Don't care. Though, I will admit... the enemies having Phoenix Mode would have been interesting. Maybe find a way to kill them all in one turn, or have a hold out situation, escape maybe?

It is not possible to kill a map full of enemies outnumbering you three to one in one turn.

[Crysta]

I'm in the "I don't care" camp because it has not added or taken away from my gameplay experience since I won't use it.

It does, however, make me have to endure other things I would prefer not to (related to the battle panties complaint). I consider that crap more detrimental to the series as a whole, but that's biased because that's mostly because *I* hate it.

[MCProductions]

I have to agree with Minischew here, it's optional and clearly isn't affecting how any of us play the game. Also, about the bad plot, I wish people would stop griping about that, before EVEN PLAYING the game to complain about the story. All we really have is the very few people here who both A.have the Japanese version, and B. understand Japanese to begin with, with respect to their opinions they are certainly entitled to have, I really wish they didn't say anything about the plot until the official release so I could discuss gameplay elements without people complaining about the lackluster plot they most likely haven't seen themselves yet. Rant over, but back on topic. More people play the games for the story than most realize, tho I personally don't, the few who do can use Phoenix mode to experience it.

Also, about the panties thing, that's just Japan being Japan. Seriously, some of the concept art for Feena and Sylvia are just as bad as the armor designs for 3DS FE, and if you don't want to see the panties, use map animations.

I'm now in the I don't care camp. I'm going to play the game on classic, so I fail to see why I should be bothered by Phoenix.

[Crysta]

Pretty sure oversexualization is not a Japan-exclusive trait, tbh. Nor do I think that alone makes it okay anyway.

But it's pretty much everywhere so endure I shall. (It's still dumb.)

[Great Geargia Gateway]

about the bad plot, I wish people would stop griping about that, before EVEN PLAYING the game to complain about the story.

Seriously though, if people find a flaw, their allowed to judge. If I can't judge, then how do I decide if I should buy a game or watch a film and etc. It's just an opinion, so it's up to other people to take the opinion seriously.

And good plot is important for an RPG, or it couldn't be engaging for the next 72+ hours of gameplay.

As for fanservice. I don't think it's optional, maybe for some, but optional doesn't change over-sexualized characters, a support mechanic which is really the Marriage system and anime trope's like Foleo being a trap = fanservice.