Sakurai commenting about "extra features"

[Integrity]

I think that's kind of a misrepresentation because I really don't care what other people think of me for playing a videogame. I mean in my case, the design of the game when it comes to the narrative elements will significantly reduce my enjoyment of it, that's a primary concern. Though the point you raise is entirely lucid too. You may ask how can I be sure, but the degree of which it was taken in FE12 and 13 already bothered me a lot, and this goes even further.

ok thanks for soothing my troubled heart man

[Jedi]

Sakurai's been playing IF/Fates? Kamui and Aqua confirmed for Smash 5

Sakurai is a known FE fan lol, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen if he doesn't step down.

[~Silver]

i guess more succinctly an optional feature can both not have an impact on your enjoyment of the game and have an impact on your impression of the game, and these two things are not mutually exclusive.

I feel it also has an impact on others impression of the game, my impression be damned. I've already had a few friends of mine that bring up the Fire-Emblem-Amie parts while I'm blabbering about how hype I am for it... It's like, I can't get a word in about the Gameplay because of the fanservice this game provides, and it really, really sucks...

[mimasho]

first part: yeah, no, i've read the lines and a bunch of them are straight-up voiced avatar molestation man, it's kind of fucked up. and for context, i'm an adult with healthy attitudes towards sex and sexuality, tyvm.

second part: being common in japan doesn't make them acceptable to a western audience due to differences in culture, yo.

Firstly, I'll admit, I haven't "amie'd" with a ton of units outside the ones who I personally like, so that's an oversight on my parts. I haven't looked up any of the lines either, so I would know. But if that's true, then I stand corrected.

Secondly, yes but I meant that as in "it's common in Japan and the devs are from Japan so it's not unacceptable to have it in the game that was created in Japan". If the translation team for the globally released version plans to do something different b/c they deem it unacceptable in their cultures, then I believe they will take the proper action.

Also, I was wondering why I received warning points ? I may be a bit new to this website, but I don't believe it was quite fair just because I disagreed with a group of people.

Edited August 7, 2015 by mimasho

[NeonZ]

fartes can be a great game, and it can be a great game where you don't ever have to go jack off your units in your private bedchambers, but the fact that you can go jack off your units in your private bedchambers is still a thing in the game.

i guess more succinctly an optional feature can both not have an impact on your enjoyment of the game and have an impact on your impression of the game, and these two things are not mutually exclusive.

You're touching their faces. It's an odd otaku-bait feature and some lines have heavy subtext, but your reference to "jack off" in your message would likely be rated higher than anything there.

Not comparable whatsoever. For one, there's no way to neccessarily correlate that the character did not choose to move into a bad position, instead of the PC insert telling them to move there, wheras with the groping, they're requested, in game, and act on that request.

I don't know if it was mentioned in Fates, but in FE13 it's specifically said that the movement is based on orders from the avatar, unless you go with auto where it's supposed to be the characters making the decisions for themselves.

Sure, but if that content itself was detrimental to the work as a whole, I would say that's bad and it shouldn't exist. But it does at least exist outside the main work of the film or series rather than existing within it, so it's of less concern.

It's still in the same disc, just not part of the main feature. The same thing as here. It's not part of the main story or some obligatory extra content, but an optional feature.

Edited August 7, 2015 by NeonZ

[Integrity]

I feel it also has an impact on others impression of the game, my impression be damned. I've already had a few friends of mine that bring up the Fire-Emblem-Amie parts while I'm blabbering about how hype I am for it... It's like, I can't get a word in about the Gameplay because of the fanservice this game provides, and it really, really sucks...

it's true and that was the point of my "read playboy for the articles" comparison

Firstly, I'll admit, I haven't "amie'd" with a ton of units outside the ones who I personally like, so that's an oversight on my parts. I haven't looked up any of the lines either, so I would know. But if that's true, then I stand corrected.

it's kind of hilarious, there are actually lines like, barely paraphrased, "i just want you to fill me up". they're not uncommon. let alone lines about how "if we were alone" and "don't touch me there" and "*breathy moaning*", which are all pretty common.

Secondly, yes but I meant that as in "it's common in Japan and the devs are from Japan so it's not unacceptable to have it in the game that was created in Japan".

If the translation team for the globally released version plans to do something different b/c they deem it unacceptable in their cultures, then I believe they will take the proper language.

i also believe that the translation team will censor the content because they deem it unacceptable in their culture, but there was, at least, an outcry against censorship because it was made like this and therefore nobody has any right to change it, and one of the arguments for that is that it shouldn't be changed because it's acceptable in japan. i can't corroborate this statement, i'm not versed in contemporary japanese culture, but it's the argument i thought you were going for. sorry!

EDIT:

You're touching their faces. It's an odd otaku-bait feature and some lines have heavy subtext, but your reference to "jack off" in your message would likely be rated higher than anything there.

read the lines, man. unless i'm being elaborately trolled, i don't breathily moan when my girlfriend touches my cheek or make comments about how she's not allowed to touch there.

there could also be something heavily lost in culture translation, hell, i dunno, but from my perspective the lines read like i'm literally grabbing leon's dick.

EDIT2: if i were actually doing that, and it were just out there and not weird heavy subtext and breathing while i stroke my waifu's cheek; if it were just porn, i'd probably honestly not be bothered lmao

Edited August 7, 2015 by Integrity

[Water Mage]

Well it's larger than that, as it has to do with the fact that the developers enable it through the Avatar in the first place. Interactions are fine, but undermining other character's agency is not a neccessary outcome in interactions. The two games you've listed at least let you fail to convince people (so there's a semblance of it), although I'm hardly a fan of them on the whole either because it's still a predominant fact.

If I were to flip this around, consider Planescape Torment, where the protagonist has agency and can interact with other characters, and can use various methods of trying to convince people in helping him, but not everyone will help The Nameless One, and most won't without a reason. Even a party member who is literally a slave to the protagonist (the tl;dr is protaognist saved his life and party member swore to serve him until he dies...but the protagonist is immortal and can't die) expresses his own views on that situation and clearly has conflicting emotions regarding it. TNO is a character within a world and must act in accordance to that world's rules, rather than just being able to consistently subvert them because of being the protagonist. If the universe is at the whim of the self insert, then it's just power fantasy tripe that has little value other than inflating the ego of the audience. Or as BrightBow would put it, giving them a narrative blowjob.

I still think that as long you know how the game's world works, that world is at the mercy of the player's whim.

But in the end, I have no right of how one should view something, so I apologize if I tried to force my opinions on you.

But like mimasho, I also joined the site to have fun coversations about Fire Emblem Fates, not get in arguments like this.

There's a reason I've only visited the character hate threat once, and never returned to it, I really just want to enjoy the game.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Water Mage

[Irysa]

I don't know if it was mentioned in Fates, but in FE13 it's specifically said that the movement is based on orders from the avatar, unless you go with auto where it's supposed to be the characters making the decisions for themselves.

Please quote the relevant line, because I do not remember it ever being explictly stated that absoloutely every action was made at the behest of Robin. General strategy sure, but not otherwise, because Robin can't possibly communicate with every member of the army at every point in time on the battlefield. There's always going to be some degree of ludonarrative dissonance in such things though, but the mechanical demands of it being possible to fail in a game are not the same as the mechanical demands of why you should be able to grope your soldiers.

It's still in the same disc, just not part of the main feature. The same thing as here. It's not part of the main story or some obligatory extra content, but an optional feature.

Unless it's released straight to DVD, that doesn't hold up, because films and tv series have to be aired or have a theatrical release without those extras first.

I still think that as long you know how the game's world works, that world is at the mercy of the player's whim.

Technically, yes, but verisimilitude is important. Just because I know that I need a certain amount of Wisdom as a stat in order to help my party member's existentialist crisis which will make him trust me more doesn't diminish the poignance of the scenario compared to something much more trite.

EDIT: I think a lot of this is distracting from the main point really that Fates (and probably Fire Emblem as a whole) has no interest in crafting geninue (read, not realistic, geninue) characters anymore (or at least, trying to), much like most modern games. Because it has no interest in doing that, it has various issues with it's narrative, but it's easier to point and complain about one part of it (groping) rather than accept the design phiilosophy as a whole is warped and being internally inconsistent with what it's initial tone and angle appear to be. As such, maybe there's merit in saying that "extra features" aren't the problem specifically, they're just a symptom. I do recognise that fact, and I'm trying to reconcile it, but I don't like the way the article approaches the issue.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Irysa

[Integrity]

idk what this "argument" thing a few people are complaining about is about, this is a pretty civil and understanding debate from my perspective, especially for this site

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Ironically, sengoku rance has deeper and more challenging gameplay then fire emblem awakening.

[Integrity]

it's not ironic but it's true, and that's why i hate that i loved it

[NeonZ]

Please quote the relevant line, because I do not remember it ever being explictly stated that absoloutely every action was made at the behest of Robin. General strategy sure, but not otherwise, because Robin can't possibly communicate with every member of the army at every point in time on the battlefield. There's always going to be some degree of ludonarrative dissonance in such things though, but the mechanical demands of it being possible to fail in a game are not the same as the mechanical demands of why you should be able to grope your soldiers.

The first quote is from the prologue, the 2nd one from chapter 2.

Chrom

Good. We haven't been noticed. Let's get close while we can! I'll go first... Where should I move to?

> Moving Chrom

Chrom

Good, now show the others where to move to. Or if everyone is where you want them to be, we can end our movement.

Chrom

What next, Robin? Guide our swords.

Frederick

Might I advise patience, milord? Robin is a fine tactician, but we have been working him/her mercilessly. Even the best of us needs rest.

Chrom

Yes, of course. I'm sorry.

Frederick

Perhaps Robin would prefer we choose our own actions at times.

Chrom

But how will we know?

Frederick

We could use a simple command that lets us fight on our own. So long as Robin realizes such a strategy does not guarantee victory. Acting as we see fit may not always lead us to the best course of action.

Unless it's released straight to DVD, that doesn't hold up, because films and tv series have to be aired or have a theatrical release without those extras first.

Good point, I guess. But, still, it holds up with straight to DVD releases or when the DVD release is changed from the original airing (which often happens with anime), like a movie's Director's Cut, in addition to those extras. Anyway, I guess another comparison I could make would be a book appendix.

Equaling it to part of the main story just seems wrong since it's possible to play through while completely skipping it, while with a chapter you can not read it and ignore its existence, but it's still part of the core storyline. That'd be more comparable to skipping cutscenes or conversations in the main story.

Edited August 7, 2015 by NeonZ

[Irysa]

The first quote is from the prologue, the 2nd one from chapter 2.

The first quote only exists when the forced tutorial is on. Full quote.

Chrom

Good. We haven't been noticed. Let's get close while we can! I'll go first... Where should I move to?

> Selecting Unit Besides Chrom

Chrom

It's too dangerous. I'll go first.

> Moving Chrom

Chrom

Good, now show the others where to move to. Or if everyone is where you want them to be, we can end our movement.

This isn't part of actual real normal dialogue in the game (hence the reason I never saw it, since I've only played on Lunatic/+ without tutorials), and Chrom actually refuses to do what you may otherwise want (which goes against what you're trying to argue for anyway). It doesn't give precedent to the rest of the game.

The chapter 2 example only implies general strategy. Robin cannot physically tell everyone exactly where to move all the time due to physical constraints. I have no doubt that in game universe, Robin crafts strategies and tells people general plans and what to do and when, but they cannot tell someone exactly where to really be at any point. And again, this is kind of a neccessary feature of being able to fail or have non optimal choices - part of what makes things "fun" is to do with pattern recognition and coming to understand where and when to do what, so there has to be some kind of negative outcome in order to create things to reach for. There is no sustainable reasoning for groping other than pandering that undermines the narrative.

Huh, good point, I guess. But, still, it holds up with straight to DVD releases or when the DVD release is changed from the original airing (which often happens with anime), in addition to those extras. Anyway, I guess another comparison I could make would be a book appendix.

Anime BDs/DVDs usually recieve touchups, not drastic reworks. A book appendix also presents itself as detached from the reality of the world rather than within it, so it isn't equatable either. An epilogue with dumb shit in it that is inconsistent with the writing of the rest of the novel would work though, but again, they're significantly more detached in that respect. However, if they are significantly regressive, I would still argue that they're negatively impacting the work by being present, and simply ignoring them is not a reasonable course of action when it comes to formulating an overall opinion. Of course, it depends on whether there's really anything of quality there in the first place, because a fanservice orientated show coming out with fanservice extras hardly has any real impact on anything, wheras a dumb exposé for something of more substance that comes out on a straight to DVD release deserves to be bashed entirely.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Irysa

[DeadGame]

He sort of has a point, but you can't compare gamemodes to cringeworthy game elements you need to endure to get the most out of the game.

So, the dating sim elements in FE: Fates aren't exactly a good reference.

[NeonZ]

The chapter 2 example only implies general strategy. Robin cannot physically tell everyone exactly where to move all the time due to physical constraints. I have no doubt that in game universe, Robin crafts strategies and tells people general plans and what to do and when, but they cannot tell someone exactly where to really be at any point. And again, this is kind of a neccessary feature of being able to fail or have non optimal choices - part of what makes things "fun" is to do with pattern recognition and coming to understand where and when to do what, so there has to be some kind of negative outcome in order to create things to reach for. There is no sustainable reasoning for groping other than pandering that undermines the narrative.

The chapter 2 example clearly isn't only about general strategy. It's talking about Robin constantly giving orders during combat and that being tiring. General strategy doesn't really fit in context. Anyway, I'm not equaling giving orders to units to pandering like the skinship, however, in both cases, the characters are reduced to game pieces without initiative of their own, which is your main complaint regarding the consequences of that feature on the narrative. And, unlike skinship, moving them like pieces on a game board is a basic game mechanic.

Also, you're applying a heavy double standard here. Completely optional skinship, which you need to go out of your way to make possible, somehow is a core part of the narrative damaging the characters, but tutorial dialogue which is written into the story (and needs to be turned off even on Lunatic) isn't "real" text?

Anime BDs/DVDs usually recieve touchups, not drastic reworks. A book appendix also presents itself as detached from the reality of the world rather than within it, so it isn't equatable either.

I'm not talking about the retouches changing things, but about how the only existing final version of the product in those cases have those extras. Anyway, an appendix is generally detached from the narrative, not from the reality. The same thing goes to the skinship mechanic. It's not part of the main narrative, and it's not acknowledged anywhere outside of the mechanic itself, even if it's technically withing the same universe as the main story.

An epilogue with dumb shit in it that is inconsistent with the writing of the rest of the novel would work though, but again, they're significantly more detached in that respect.

An epilogue is just part of the story, how would it be more detached from the story than a gameplay mechanic that's not referenced or acknowledged in the story itself? I guess, from a certain point of view, the player's actions build the narrative, and that's what you're considering here, right? But, in that case, like said above, the skinship mechanic easily might not be part of the player's own narrative.

Edited August 7, 2015 by NeonZ

[XeKr]

To clarify on how the “lewd” lines in My Room work (afaict), you have to build the support which takes many battles, choose to marry the character (specific game popup for S rank), then pick the special separate option in My Room for married characters 3ish times to the exclamation point.

So I don’t see how that would happen unless you specifically sought it out and jumped through all the hoops, so I don’t see how scenes in eroges or pictures in playboy are a good comparison, which you would have to specifically seek to avoid if you wanted the gameplay/articles.

(playing the game) it definitely feels like fluff is fluff. My Room has negligible effects on gameplay (I think only heart icon characters get support points? which is unreliable, basically barracks/event tiles) and it is far less work to literally delete than it is to explore.

Still, while development rarely works cleanly as noted, surely resources for My Room allocated elsewhere would give some chance of improving other issues, no? Whether hiring better talent or paying current talent better with those funds or moving talent and priorities to another project. Particularly animation related things like Holy Lancers using Lances weirdly vs. Naginatas. Even very small things can improve the impression of polish significantly. I would be okay if the considerable asset creation talent made weapon/item icons instead.

Also, (just speculation) I think the feature as is would hurt sales in the West, so there’s a little bias there.

That said, some people probably love the feature and there's words for those who hate on other's preferences and enjoyment. SF seems good about it for the most part, but I'll mention it so people remain considerate and nuanced. (using deliberately inflammatory terms and imprecise descriptions doesn't help one's argument, I'll throw out there)

Edited August 7, 2015 by XeKr

[Irysa]

The chapter 2 example clearly isn't only about general strategy. It's talking about Robin constantly giving orders during combat and that being tiring. General strategy doesn't really fit in context. Anyway, I'm not equaling giving orders to units to pandering like the skinship, however, in both cases, the characters are reduced to game pieces without initiative of their own, which is your main complaint regarding the consequences of that feature on the narrative. And, unlike skinship, moving them like pieces on a game board is a basic game mechanic.

Bolded: this is not implict anywhere. It is only stated that Robin gives orders a lot, not that those orders neccessraily happen during combat. Irrespective of that though, if you acknowledge the fact there's a significant difference and one is sort of neccessary whilst the other isn't, what's the point of the comparison? That they both reduce intitatve? Sure, so by all means, get rid of the Avatar. But it's certainly a lot less compelling to argue about letting all characters autopilot all the time when AI in videogames is so consistently terrible.

I'm not talking about the retouchs changing things, but about how the only existing final version of the product in those cases have those extras. Anyway, an appendix is generally detached from the narrative, not from the reality. The same thing goes to the skinship mechanic. It's not part of the main narrative, and it's not acknowledged anywhere outside of the mechanic itself.

If we are only talking about a product that happens to have "extras" within it as default, then I'm still not sure where you're going with this. I've already said that in the cases applicable, I'm not seeing how they're not immune to criticism if they cause detractions on the overall work, and I would critique them for it in those situations. If they are new additions to later revisions, then rather than hold it against the original, you'd hold it against the new release.

An epilogue is just part of the story, how would it be more detached from the story than a gameplay mechanic that's not referenced or acknowledged in the story itself? I guess, from a certain point of view, the player's actions build the narrative, and that's what you're considering here, right? But, in that case, like said above, the skinship mechanic easily can not be part of the player's own narrative since it's completely optional.

Epilogues can be very much detached from the main narrative of the story, to the point of not really referencing anything and just being pleasant happy ever afters or similar nonsense. The player's own narrative is of less concern to me than the overall meta nature of the game's design and implications of that design.

That said, some people probably love the feature and there's words for those who hate on other's preferences and enjoyment. SF seems good about it for the most part, but I'll mention it so people remain considerate and nuanced. (using deliberately inflammatory terms and imprecise descriptions doesn't help one's argument, I'll throw out there)

You know, being passive aggressive doesn't help either. Just call me out on it if you have a problem.

I don’t see how that would happen unless you specifically sought it out and jumped through all the hoops, so I don’t see how scenes in eroges or pictures in playboy is a good comparison, which you would have to specifically seek to avoid if you wanted the gameplay/articles.

Not my comparison, but to build on it, what about an epilogue that undermines all of a character's development throughout the whole narrative? And that in itself was it's primary function, a final "fuck you" from the author.

You simply have to consider such things in your evaluation of a product, and doing otherwise is pretty severe cognitive dissonance. It's even fine to say "everything is fine aside from that", but to disregard it as being relevant altogether due to its status as optional is another thing entirely.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Irysa

[XeKr]

I agree with many of your points, so I don't like to see you weakening your argument with imprecise descriptions.

[Taka-kun]

Gone for 6 hours and this topic exploded, and I forgot to my post my own thoughts.

I think Sakurai here refers to that, even if a feature that is in the game was removed, doesn't necessarily mean that another will have taken its place. We can SPECULATE, yes, that it took away development time but it could also been a bunch of guys in the team who thought it would be fun to do. And as Sakurai stated in the article, some may actually like it (I main Dark Pit, fight me). Some have even argued that the skinship thing imply stuffs about Kamui, but that can be debated all day. The inclusion of the "trio" has sparked debate over what it meant of their past. That said, some implications are hard to avoid, like Kamui marrying underage boys/girls, but many has already considered in their head that the children paralogues are non-canon (cuz they are just plain ridiculous). The amie feature might not had any impact on the narrative or the horrible story or the bad level design at all, maybe they were that bad (subjective) from the beginning.

In the end, FE:Fates is an incoherent mess, to please the fanbase and obviously, some guys and gals like it (the only consistent complaint I have seen is the story). I myself is upset about the loss of the family theme in Fates, which I SUSPECT is due to fanservice. It will still not deter me from buying the game and play through the parts that I like. If something in the game bothers you so much that you can't sleep at night, just don't buy the game. If enough people boycott the game because of some feature, surely IS will take notice, like they did with Awakening's story (though they still failed again).

[Soapbar]

I'm just worried that stuff like FE Amie and the like will change the image of Fire Emblem to the general public from "niche strategy RPG" to "dating simulator with a strategy game in there somewhere"

Because it's like Dead Or Alive or Arcana Hearts. You can argue all day that those games are pretty good fighting games and having pretty good mechanics but nobody cares because LOOK AT ALL THIS TnA

Granted, DOA and AH are much more in your face with that so it might be a bad example

[Loki Laufeyson]

I agree with Sakurai. I also dont give a snot about impressions or whatever. The reason i dont play Sengoku Rance is because the main character is a dude all the time and the porny bits are all pretty..heteronormative and...yeah. Its for a male audience.

From my experience outside the forums, it's generally treated as "lol widget feature". I, myself, have strong opinions on the matter, but I don't particularly want to rant and start an argument that may end with the topics' closure.

I'm entirely confident it will be removed internationally.

Ehhh, outside this site, the feature is actually treated with even more stigma. Mostly because a lot of the fandom outside SF hasnt actually played the game yet. (cuz you lot are ultra nerds who import) So they dont have a real understanding of the feature as a whole. This also allows for a lot of misinformation about it being spread. Like how people assume that majority of the lines are lewd. XeKr there, seems to be correct that any actual lewd lines are only uttered if the Avatar has an S support with the character in question. That many of the lines are otherwise more platonic.

The most I can see is toning down the lewdness of some of the S rank lines, particularly on characters like Elise who's very young. (iirc Sakuras were pretty vanilla)

Zero can stay

Yeah some of the S supported lines will likely get toned down. Wasnt it one of Joker's that got outright removed in the Japanese release?

(the only consistent complaint I have seen is the story)

Same.

I'm just worried that stuff like FE Amie and the like will change the image of Fire Emblem to the general public from "niche strategy RPG" to "dating simulator with a strategy game in there somewhere"

I doubt it. I think the feature is more of an experiment (like Phoenix mode) than anything. Just to see if it catches on and people dig it. IS wants lightning to strike twice in the same spot, and time will tell with the Western release if thats gonna be the case. If people dont like the feature, it will likely not return in the next game. I really dont think the franchise is going to become that focused on that aspect. The shipping aspect drew in a lot of fans (especially female fans). So they are going to try to capitalize on that a bit. But the entire concept of FE isnt going to be all about that. Id argue that Awakening made it more important due to pairing characters being kind of essential to the plot.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Loki Laufeyson

[Irysa]

I agree with many of your points, so I don't like to see you weakening your argument with imprecise descriptions.

I use charged language occaisonally because I am not a robot and I feel strongly about stuff like this (although I have tried to distance myself and thought I was making progress, evidentally not though), and I don't think it's worth self policing myself on such things when I'm not being directly confrontational. People know exactly what I mean, but using "imprecise descriptions" doesn't really detract from any of the points I think I've made, rather it just prevents me from having to add the qualifying descriptor of "what I view to be..." onto everything. It allows me to convey contempt (because that's what this is, contempt, I'm not at the point of benign indifference yet) without directly insulting other individuals. Unless those people get upset because I don't like the thing they like, but in that case, criticisms alone are already going to be doing as such.

Honestly a lot of these topics are me just venting frustrations, developing my own thoughts, and trying to get over it rather than neccessarily convince anyone that it's bad, because that's a fruitless task. Acceptance takes time. I don't think tone policing myself really makes much of a difference.

XeKr there, seems to be correct that any actual lewd lines are only uttered if the Avatar has an S support with the character in question. That many of the lines are otherwise more platonic.

There's still plenty of hero-worship though, lewdness hardly has to come into it. "Oh Kamui-sama....."

Edited August 7, 2015 by Irysa

[SageOfAnys]

Wow, this is possibly the longest but most civil discussion I've seen on the Fates subforum during all my times of lurking and actually being a member. Good job everyone!

But just to throw my two cents into the discussion, and I agree with Sakurai. In my opinion, skinship is just there for those into it, there's nothing really that important to the story, narrative, or any character development, so it can be ignored without any differences in gameplay. Heck, if it was that important, why do you have the option of removing the building the mechanic occurs in? If anything about a character is mentioned in the skinship, it was probably already seen in a support somewhere. And as for the amie hurting character integrity, it isn't necessarily a problem created by the skinship, but by the S-ranking-every-ending-is-romantic system and the player-worship instead, as characters going against what is established is because of that system applying to everyone. Even then, most of the non S-rank lines are really tame. Sure there might be some exceptions, but there's exceptions for pretty much everything.

I'm just worried that stuff like FE Amie and the like will change the image of Fire Emblem to the general public from "niche strategy RPG" to "dating simulator with a strategy game in there somewhere"

That could/could not happen from what I've seen... it really depends on what's advertised. If the romance is one of the largest things emphasized, then I could see FE possibly going that way, but even then, I still don't think that'll happen. Even if it does go down that path, it would take a lot more than skinship, a lot more time, and a lot more gameplay impact than what is already present.

There's still plenty of hero-worship though, lewdness hardly has to come into it. "Oh Kamui-sama....."

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't only the servants and Camilla (and maybe the younger sisters?) have lines like that during the skinship when you don't have an S-rank with them? Because if so, that explains a lot considering the servants are, well, your servants and Camilla has an unhealthy obsession with you. Also the more I read your arguments Irysa, the more I'm convinced that your main gripe is player worship rather than skinship... tell me if I misinterpreted though. :P

[andodel]

GTA has a rep for it, FE does not. Therein lies the issue.

Also, that last remark is very baity. Was is necessary?

After the whole soleil thing, can you blame me. I didn't mean it as bait or anything.

I do see your point though, so I took it out.

Reputation of the game should hardly matter. Nintendo doesn't have to worry as much about fans complaining, they're usually worried about what outsiders say. Take Binding of Isaac for instance. There were plenty of 3DS users that wanted it, but Nintendo was afraid to put it on their systems initially. It's the family friendly mentatlity they seem to think they need to keep. Given the direction Nintendo has been going as of late, there's no reason for them to take amie out internationally. I suppose there is rating to be worried about, but I can't see that being a problem. Fates has no real reason for an m rating, aside from maybe the stripping part, which I would say is "worse" than amie, but still not that bad.

Edited August 7, 2015 by andodel

[Irysa]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't only the servants and Camilla (and maybe the younger sisters?) have lines like that during the skinship when you don't have an S-rank with them? Because if so, that explains a lot considering the servants are, well, your servants and Camilla has an unhealthy obsession with you.

I dunno, I'm not privy to the context of quotes people pull out and throw at me to tease me and piss me off, since I don't actually go around searching for logs and stuff in this game unless someone asks me to. The one that still sticks with me the most is honestly still the Harold one (which is supposed to be a joke) of "It is an honor to be touched by you". I really don't think it gets any worse than that.

Also the more I read your arguments Irysa, the more I'm convinced that your main gripe is player worship rather than skinship... tell me if I misinterpreted though. :P

They're both symptoms of a larger problem and I dislike both on principle. I don't dislike that Fates exists, but I resent the fact that this is happening to the industry as a whole and there's a distinct lack of a niche for less indulgent games.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Irysa