Espinosa Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 I don't know about the RNG screwage; Dan's first action was terribly risky, and the second one seems really pointless (at least Walhart has you-know-what-breaker, and doubles to boot). General MUs are tough to handle, but we've beaten them before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I wouldn't exactly say Rng screwed since 84% vengeance is almost guaranteed procs, and 60+ hit rates are likely to land, maybe one miss at most, but yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) I don't know about the RNG screwage; Dan's first action was terribly risky, and the second one seems really pointless (at least Walhart has you-know-what-breaker, and doubles to boot). General MUs are tough to handle, but we've beaten them before. Actually, GMU's strength is that you can start with a Brave Axe instead of a Brave Lance to surprise the opponent with the breaker set. If he attacked me with the Superior Axe, he'd had the superior play because of 15% hitrate. Though I'd agree that now we only saw MU with Brave Lances, making this quite unpredictable (though he could have thought about it) That's the only play you can make about this MU build not to get "surprisedrekt", and it will barely scratch her armor while she'll still get the first blood especially with Vengeance. I used all the games I saw to optimize the build, and I think this is the best one because there's no Axebreaker/Lancebreaker Magicians. He basically needs to rely on Priam Luna procs to kill this, or to use a breaker when I strike. Yeah, the second move was extremely risky, especially because Hammer Walmart can kill this MU set when he has revealed himself. Maybe he thought though I had Pavise or something like so as the last skill. Edited August 23, 2015 by Nintales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Implying Walhart has a hammer... And now all this makes me feel stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Actually, GMU's strength is that you can start with a Brave Axe instead of a Brave Lance to surprise the opponent with the breaker set. If he attacked me with the Superior Axe, he'd had the superior play because of 15% hitrate. Though I'd agree that now we only saw MU with Brave Lances, making this quite unpredictable (though he could have thought about it) That's the only play you can make about this MU build not to get "surprisedrekt", and it will barely scratch her armor while she'll still get the first blood especially with Vengeance. I used all the games I saw to optimize the build, and I think this is the best one because there's no Axebreaker/Lancebreaker Magicians. He basically needs to rely on Priam Luna procs to kill this, or to use a breaker when I strike. Yeah, the second move was extremely risky, especially because Hammer Walmart can kill this MU set when he has revealed himself. Maybe he thought though I had Pavise or something like so as the last skill. General MU is afraid of Flavia's Luna procs, which was likely the safest way to attack her. Walhart was also able to quad the General after the latter switched to the lance, having good chances to avoid the counter because of Dancebreaker. Both Flavia and Walhart are Luna-users who are there to break your team's main counters and threats early on, usually not surviving until the lategame. For some reason, Dan abstained from attacking with either and instead fed Whompa two of his Vengeance users (who generally don't attack on player phase until low on HP, with a few notable exceptions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 You guys really know how to shit on a guys day... Walhart attacks Whompa with Brave Lance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 [spoiler=see teams here] Dandragon's team vs. Nintales' team Turn 5. vs. Dan's Walhart (Brave Lance) attacks Nin's Whompa (Brave Lance)! 9x2 dmg 100% hit 0% crit (15) Luna Whompa receives 35 dmg! 24 -> 0 Whompa is KO'd! Dan Nin Cordelia 0/80 Whompa 0/80 Flavia 0/80 Cordelia 80/80 Walhart 80/80 Aversa 80/80 Gangrel 0/80 Tharja 80/80 Daniella 0/80 Gangrel 80/80 Nin acts next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 at this rate its impossible for me to win. Hell, if Walhart didn't proc luna i would have died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Who knows, maybe not. Whompa had -50 hit due to Lancebreaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Who knows, maybe not. Whompa had -50 hit due to Lancebreaker. Between that, Pavise procs and failed Vengeance, there were decent chances of survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 This whole match is just upside down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Aversa uses the power of her super special awesome Forseti on Walmart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 [spoiler=see teams here] Dandragon's team vs. Nintales' team Turn 6. vs. Nin's Aversa (Forseti) attacks Dan's Walhart (Brave Lance)! 27 dmg 100% hit 0% crit (69) Vengeance Walhart receives 27 dmg! 80 -> 53 Walhart counterattacks! 19x2 dmg 11% hit 0% crit (55) (55 20 48) Walhart misses! (44) (72 80 38) Walhart misses! Aversa attacks again! Walhart receives 27 dmg! 53 -> 26 Dan Nin Cordelia 0/80 Whompa 0/80 Flavia 0/80 Cordelia 80/80 Walhart 26/80 Aversa 80/80 Gangrel 0/80 Tharja 80/80 Daniella 0/80 Gangrel 80/80 Dan's turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 jesus christ... 'gg' you win... am i allowed to accept Nintails rematch offer? or do i have to accept this humiliating defeat? Walhart attacks Aversa with Brave Axe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 General confirmed for top tier. Thwomp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think this match should be replayed, on the basis that if Dan wins the rematch and beats Quint twice, there'll be just one player who only lost one match this tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I'd actually say for the rematch a commitee of three hosts should decide whether or not that MU build was broken enough to wipe a team. Since I'll be off for three/four days, that leaves quite the time to do that. The MU build is/was : Whompa Str+ Spd- General Lancefaire, Str+2, Hitrate+20, Vengeance, Bowbreaker Brave Axe Superior Axe +5 Mt +15 Hit Brave Lance Superior Lance +5 Mt +15 Hit Beast Killer +5 Mt +15 Hit I'm basically giving it because she's now dead. So. 1- Brave Axe to counter any kind of thought Dan might have. People will easily expect a Brave Lance for the first shot, and therefore send the Lancebreaker unit on it (by Lancebreaker, I obviously thought about Aversa and her possibility to 1-RKO MU) 2- Hitrate +20 and Vengeance to make strong attacks a thing. As this MU build will only attack for an almost guaranteed ORKO, HR+20 helps securing this while Vengeance makes of her a really tough unit to handle... 3- Especially due to Bowbreaker. As you won't be able to snipe her except if the Assassin's Priam with both Lance and Axebreaker, you won't get the first shot because you can't get the weapon she actually equips. And she can just snipe any assassin with this build. 4- Forged beast killer for 103 to 106 might against mounted units. While this sounds probably redundant because of the Brave Lance, it's still nifty to have a weapon with a superior hitrate. 5- Superior Weapons to actually counter any kind of possible things that might have been thrown at me. While it might have not been useful, I could have resorted to it in some situation. 6- Lancefaire and Str+2 for the obvious OHKO, in case it wasn't clear. She's basically able to counter like a Woobuffet, and to hit like a Choice Specs!Kyogre with Water Spout. Edited August 24, 2015 by Nintales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Ouch. I thought I wouldn't see a single unit wreck someone's team as hard as Olivia did with Anon... Then this happens. Edited August 24, 2015 by Levant Colthearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't think THWOMP Robin is as broken. Some counters might include Frederick (Lancebreaker/Superior Axe + Luna and Pavise for Defence), Lobster, Priam (weapon triangle breakers and Luna), Aversa, Robin, Sniper Chrom (who knows, a quad snipe with high chances of Aether/Luna is fightening coupled with Hit+20 and Anathema support) and maybe some niche like double Luna Celica's Gale from Sage Ricken with Tomefaire (41dmg with 35res) might break the THWOMP. Heck, even a Hero like Vaike, Donnel, Cordelia, Gregor or Priam can one shot her with Hammer especially when she has an Axe. I don't think she's zomg broken, I just think Dan wasn't expecting her and just went trial and error and, unfortunately, he failed at it. It's like when people is used to infantry units and then your enemy comes up with an army of Dark Knights, Great Knights, Valkyries and you don't have Beast Killers to hit hard or one shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Your opponent usually won't be kind enough to wound your General MU so that she can wreck with Vengeance. Attacking with her is risky; most Assassins these days are ones with Pavise, and most other classes have too much defense to OHKO, so she will likely be countered for a lot of damage and finished off on the next turn. She's strong, but not overwhelmingly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Your opponent usually won't be kind enough to wound your General MU so that she can wreck with Vengeance. Attacking with her is risky; most Assassins these days are ones with Pavise, and most other classes have too much defense to OHKO, so she will likely be countered for a lot of damage and finished off on the next turn. She's strong, but not overwhelmingly so. First things first : Only Flavia, Basilio, Kellam and MU can be a Pavise Assassin. And only Flavia and MU produce effective results out of this. As for "kind enough to wound", the first turn of this battle summarizes my thoughts. He wounded her to get VengeanceRekt. And then Snowballing powarz got used. He probably panicked though. As long as she gets a kill on a string hard to remove unit from the enemy team (assassins), she did her job. Vengeance is pretty much here to kill on that Aversa's attack while I feed my MU with the blood of his non-Flavia/MU assassin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Again, you don't see many non Flavia/MU assassins now. The possibility of that build existing is enough to discourage them, and there are builds that are overall stronger. General is just a fairly strong class, and MU has unrivalled flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 FWIW Flavia!Brave Bow running Lucky Seven and Axebreaker (and Luna) has a high chance to demolish WhompaStompa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandragon Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Can I just say that the reason I didn't attack Whompa with Walhart before was because I knew that if I removed Balmung I would get quaded by his Aversa, among other things. Also, and this is not to shit on any skills of teambuilding or strategy that Nintails or I have, I think Nintails successfully exploited my fear of the Robin!General after my match with Quint. I wanted it dead, and I misscalculated damage on my part. I thought, if all went well, Gangrel would one round Whompa. It doesn't excuse anything I did, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) no rematch imo thwomp mu is in no way broken (it is strong yes). If she missed a 63 on turn 1, Gangrel kills her and this game is a lot different (not that I think the Gangrel attack was a smart move) she doesn't want to initiate any attacks (unless she ORKO's cleanly at full health which is pretty much only against non-pavise assassins). What if Flavia was Priam with Lance/Axebreaker? She has like, ~30ish hit. She's kinda like a sorcerer. Any bow unit with Axe/Lancebreaker and Luna totally annihilates said unit. Like what could she have done on turn 1 as an attack? Try to kill Flavia and risk getting Luna'd to death? She couldn't kill Gangrel at full HP either. Edited August 24, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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