Worst Units and Classes

[Azz]

I would not say Odin is the worst in Nohr since he comes early enough to be a good unit, he just happens to be outclassed by Nyx when she joins and is trained. As for IK, well, yeah, he is the worst.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Azz

[Shephen]

I disagree with a lot of that actually lol

If we are assuming a units performance on each route then for Nohr Mozume is the worst, Hoshido Yomi/Mozume is the worst, and for IK Odin is the worst. Overall across all 3 routes I would say Mozume is the worst.

Hinata and Baki aren't bad in any of the routes. In Hoshido Baki doesn't need that much to be really good as a combat unit and he has flight which is useful for a lot of chapters not to mention the more movement he has over most of the cast in Hoshido. E-Rescue staves are pretty great for him since he can just fly around and rescue Kamui/Ryoma around speeding things up, and you need multiple rescue users to some of the more complicated rescue skips in the later game. Yeah Hinoka is better, but outclassed doesn't always mean that a unit is bad. In IK he is the first flier you get and has access to the training sessions that are 1x and chapter 10 as well as the chapter 10 stat boosters. Those things alone put him way above the likes of the most of the cast that arrives after chapter 13. Hoshido Hinata has bases that can keep him relevant for a majority of the game and if he's trained can fair pretty well in the endgame due to how sluggish late game enemies are and he has the bulk to go multiple rounds of combat. In IK he isn't a liability on his join and can do stuff at base, as far as IK is concerned that makes him a 7/10 unit.

In Hoshido, Yomi is just straight up bad with horrible bases and being really underleveled joining after the chapter that a mage would have been really useful in. Yeah he is really dope in IK, but if Yomi can get pulled out of bad because of that, then like the latter half of the unpromoted cast in IK needs to get dragged down to bad for just how bad they are. Its really just him, Odin, Rinka and Mozume that I would call bad ignoring IK.

Sub-par units are units like Pieri, Lazward, Setsuna and Asama since by their own merits aren't bad, but they are redundant and don't really bring anything really useful to the table. Both are bad in IK though. Luna is actually pretty great in Nohr since she can go Pegasus knight for flight and staves which are all incredibly useful. She's decent enough in IK.

Sub-par classes are classes like Weapon Master and Basara. No one in the game would like to go weapon master, and the only times someone is going Basara is to get breaking sky and then switch to another class. If anything Merc is a sub-par class since it doesn't really offer much.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Shephen

[Ownagepuffs]

Hero is pretty sub par too :(. Though Luna/Camilia support is fast enough that Cam can get A+ with Luna and carry her Axe rank into Hero for a bit. Whether or not that's worth it is another story.

[Shadow Mir]

Hero is pretty sub par too :(.

*sigh* Are you serious?? Because if so, that might turn me away from Fighters altogether, given my REALLY low opinion of Berserkers...

Edited November 1, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[riolumaster]

Made changes based on responses.

[Azz]

*sigh* Are you serious?? Because if so, that might turn me away from Fighters altogether, given my REALLY low opinion of Berserkers...

I personally found Heroes to be okay. But really Fighters in this game while okay since they ca use the S rank axe, are not that useful since you have better axe users that in general are better like Camilla and Belka who also have the bonus of being flyers.

In all, it seems that Bow users got a significant buff while Axe users the opposite.

[sylveonzoroark]

Why is Hero a sub-par class?

[Azz]

Why is Hero a sub-par class?

Really there are classes that use both swords and axes much better. The main two users being Luna and Lazward are much better in other classes and while they are very rounded stat wise, a lot of the time that is a draw back for them while you can have the likes of Elfie destroying everything while also taking damage or Charlotte getting criticals on everything in sight.

They are not bad per say but there are others who just do what they should do better.

[Djing]

Seems like the game favors specialists a bit more this time around.

[Shadow Mir]

Seems like the game favors specialists a bit more this time around.

So they say. Not that I'm convinced.

[Duke of Dozel]

Is Asyura worth using on Nohr? I'm hesitant to use him because of his Kamui exclusive support pool.

He's definitely worth using. Once reclassed into berserker, his HP and STR get the boost they want and he's able to double all enemies up to around chapter 20ish at base with a bandit axe. His growths are at their best in this class, and once it gets boosted, he can reclass to bow knight and be a secondary archer. Zero is still better, unless you mini-max in which case Asura still has slightly better mods, mainly because he has support bonuses and better availability. He's also good for theft utility which I found useful myself.

Once again, if you want him to REALLY be useful, reclass to bow knight or try your hand at berserker.

[Dark Paladin X]

No. People say there is but I made my way through Nohr!Lunatic just fine with only Adventurer!Zero and Bow Knight!Luna(Who mostly used swords any ways). They are handy cause you do face more fliers in Nohr since Peg Warriors and such, and Adventurers make for good staff bots, like Asyura since if you use Elise and make her a Strategist, she will be doing more offensive stuff then(Well mine did).

It is up to you but you do not need several bow users. Despite their buff, they are not that good. One or two will suffice for the whole game.

Also, to answer your question on Asyura, unless he is marrying Kamui or going to be a stff-bot, I would not use him.

See, this is where I personally disagree with you here. Even if you only have one bow user, it's still very sub-optimal to use Zero. Zero does not hit has hard in comparison in what Mozume has to offer as a Holy Bowman. The Holy Bowman class has better stats for a bow user than an Adventurer/Bow Knight class.

Also, I find your argument for "you do not need several bow users" to be completely flawed. You may also argue that do not need several hidden weapon or staff user saying "oh I have Kaze and Elise as my main hidden weapon and staff user respectfully." What I'm trying to say here is the unit diversity here and the Nohr path is infamous for not having enough bow/hidden weapon/staff users. This encourages the player to reclass several of their characters as bow/hidden weapon/staff users Likewise, there aren't many axe or tank units in the Hoshido path, so it encouraged for players to find many axe users or tank characters (sadly, the classes available for Hinata and Subaki are all glass cannon).

But really, people are bitching about Mozume in this forums because of her early game starting stats but completely ignoring her class options and growth rates that makes her a great lategame bow user in the Nohr route. Keep in note that Mozume has access to the Great Merchant AND the Weapon Master class, which allows her to access the Line of Death/Extravagence skill combo (and with Easy Life, money will not be an issue in Nohr route). Apparently, this is 20 free damage for Mozume with no Line of Death penalty. Normally if you want to access the Line of Death/Extravagence skill combo, you either need to use a prepromte such as Yukimura, or needing to marry someone to access it (i.e. marrying Oboro to Hinata since Oboro secondary is Herb Merchant). I might as well put the "Americans Hate TIngle" trope in the TV Tropes page if you guys keep it up.

[Ryo]

By the time she has learned all those skills, we've already beaten the game, or very near endgame for them to actually matter. Not that I disagree with the fact that she's the superior bow user to Zero.

[Tooru]

See, this is where I personally disagree with you here. Even if you only have one bow user, it's still very sub-optimal to use Zero. Zero does not hit has hard in comparison in what Mozume has to offer as a Holy Bowman. The Holy Bowman class has better stats for a bow user than an Adventurer/Bow Knight class.

Also, I find your argument for "you do not need several bow users" to be completely flawed. You may also argue that do not need several hidden weapon or staff user saying "oh I have Kaze and Elise as my main hidden weapon and staff user respectfully." What I'm trying to say here is the unit diversity here and the Nohr path is infamous for not having enough bow/hidden weapon/staff users. This encourages the player to reclass several of their characters as bow/hidden weapon/staff users Likewise, there aren't many axe or tank units in the Hoshido path, so it encouraged for players to find many axe users or tank characters (sadly, the classes available for Hinata and Subaki are all glass cannon).

But really, people are bitching about Mozume in this forums because of her early game starting stats but completely ignoring her class options and growth rates that makes her a great lategame bow user in the Nohr route. Keep in note that Mozume has access to the Great Merchant AND the Weapon Master class, which allows her to access the Line of Death/Extravagence skill combo (and with Easy Life, money will not be an issue in Nohr route). Apparently, this is 20 free damage for Mozume with no Line of Death penalty. Normally if you want to access the Line of Death/Extravagence skill combo, you either need to use a prepromte such as Yukimura, or needing to marry someone to access it (i.e. marrying Oboro to Hinata since Oboro secondary is Herb Merchant). I might as well put the "Americans Hate TIngle" trope in the TV Tropes page if you guys keep it up.

Zero is not hitting hard on un-flying units. But if it is not flying it doesn't matter we are using bows or whatever.

2 bowers are not enough for "I will feel pleasure if weapons in my team are balanced", but 2 are enough for beating the game easily.

When a chapter has flying units, there are a lot. Zero and Mozume are doing the same things by OHKOing these enemies.

For other chapters, bowers are just happened to use bows.

You want a anti-mage, a healer, and a bringer with 7/9 movement? You want a "BOWserker" to beat most units including the final boss? Or maybe you want both? It just depends.

[Luninareph]

Likewise, there aren't many axe or tank units in the Hoshido path, so it encouraged for players to find many axe users or tank characters (sadly, the classes available for Hinata and Subaki are all glass cannon).

Once again... Weapons Master and Oni Savage + promotions ARE tanky class options, especially with Hinata's bases and growths. There's even Dread Fighter if you want him to tank magic.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Seems like the game favors specialists a bit more this time around.

In part due to E rank sub weapons really, I think, because nobody wants to be stuck with a bronze even just to get to D rank to use Beast Killers/Hammers/Whatever.

That, and if you want to reach A Rank (not really that important kind of though) you largely have to concentrate on a single weapon.

Somewhat mitigated due to grinding, but it still depends

Edited November 2, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Ownagepuffs]

Reverse weapons kill the need for a secondary weapon type tbh.

[Shadow Mir]

Reverse weapons kill the need for a secondary weapon type tbh.

I can't really agree, given that while they may be good for covering what you're normally bad against, they're not exactly what I'd want to be caught using against anything else due to accuracy (aka, too situational).

Edited November 2, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[lysander]

Then don't get caught with them out. Situating weapons for enemy phase is one of the easiest things to do. The alternative for most characters would be grinding a new weapon from E to C to get anywhere near the same level of effectiveness and it'd still fall short in most situations.

[GrayClouds23]

I really really dislike Felicia. For some reason Joker just seems like a much better unit, he's not so focused on healing either. I don't really understand why Joker feels like a much better character.

Also Tsukiyomi and Rinkah are bad? Wut? I hate conquest because I like grinding, and plus he's Shara's father.. so yeah without him no Shara for my female MC.

Edited November 3, 2015 by GrayClouds23

[Duke of Dozel]

I really really dislike Felicia. For some reason Joker just seems like a much better unit, he's not so focused on healing either. I don't really understand why Joker feels like a much better character.

Probably because Joker has enough strength to actually kill enemies and has more balanced growths than she does. He can also make use of his reclass line unlike Felicia. And you don't need much of a healer when you have your little sister, anyway. Felicia just can't keep up.

[Shephen]

Sakura is 100% outclassed by Felicia in Hoshido and IK. Felicia has more move, better staff rank and can give debuffs. Sakura's unisex aura doesn't really overcome those differences. Heck Felicia can go Strategist relatively quickly and get Battle Command really early which is basically Sakura's aura+. Elise isn't in the same boat since her personal aura is pretty good and she has more move. If you're looking to have Felicia do combat just give her the Explosive Shuriken and that is basically all she needs to be a good combat unit.

[Duke of Dozel]

Sure, she's still good. In terms of utility, she's extremely great early on. But relying on the magical shuriken leaves her stuck with one weapon that she's good with (and that -20 avoid will kick her ass if she's not safe). It's for the best that she's reclassed to strategist. It makes her much more useful in Hoshido. But Elise isn't far from going to promotion herself. Just a bit of heal grinding and her magic, luck, speed and resistance will obliterate Felicia's. Joker is basically Felicia with less magic and much more STR. Even then, his D rank staffs still lets him immediately use debuff staffs and such, while being more versed in physical kunai. Reclass him to Great Knight and he becomes invaluable once he ranks up in weapon level, which can be used early on with a arms scroll. Plus his personal is just too darn good.

Either way, Suzukaze and Saizou outclass both in shuriken use anyway.

[Ryo]

Where do you get an armscroll in early game though?

[Duke of Dozel]

You get one as a bonus in the menus I believe.