ruadath Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Since Rekka no Ken (7 games ago!), it seems that IS has discarded the ranking system of FE4-FE7 that made for many interesting tactics that are not always found in LTCs and such, and gave rise to a unique notion of getting a "perfect game." What are your opinions on the lack of the ranking system in the latest Fire Emblem games? Would you like to see it return to the series, and if so, how would you like to see it (re-)implemented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Considering I ignored it completely, I haven't missed it in the slightlest and doubt it will return. If it does return, I'd like a reason other than bragging rights to shoot for a perfect score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topazd Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Technically speaking FE12 did have a ranking system, though the requirements therein were essentially a joke. In the games where it does have a more prominent presence, I've very rarely even attempted a ranked playthrough on anything but Lyn mode (and I have trouble amassing the required funds even there lmao), so I'd have a tough time evaluating them by anything more substantial than hearsay. Though based on the meagre experience I have, I'd be all for a return to a system akin to FE7's, for one. Edited October 12, 2015 by Topazd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex95 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Ranking system, ranking system... Oh, that ranking system! I don't really miss it, but I guess it's nice to see how well (or how bad) the game thought you handled it. I suppose it could come back, but it won't change anything major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Considering I ignored it completely, I haven't missed it in the slightlest and doubt it will return. If it does return, I'd like a reason other than bragging rights to shoot for a perfect score Ranking system, ranking system... Oh, that ranking system! I don't really miss it, but I guess it's nice to see how well (or how bad) the game thought you handled it. I suppose it could come back, but it won't change anything major. I always thought that (to quote someone from some thread I can't remember who is more eloquent than I am) it provided a nice balance between the efficiency and completionist styles of playing through the game. Wouldn't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I guess it does, but I don't care about the ranking system so that doesn't really apply to me. I don't have an issue with them bringing it back or anything, but it's never held any significance with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I've never played a FE that has a ranking system, but if IS brought it back, I wouldn't care about it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingddd Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The ranking system in general wasn't a really good indication of how well you did in the game anyway. While it calculates certain things like number of turns for tactics, funds etc, they don't really give feedback to the player on your current progress so I don't miss it all. Not to mention everyone plays FE differently. Some like going blitz in and while some prefer the slow turtle way, some prefer splitting their units in different groups etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The ranking system in general wasn't a really good indication of how well you did in the game anyway. While it calculates certain things like number of turns for tactics, funds etc, they don't really give feedback to the player on your current progress so I don't miss it all. Not to mention everyone plays FE differently. Some like going blitz in and while some prefer the slow turtle way, some prefer splitting their units in different groups etc.This. I'd focus on the lack of feedback and that FE has so many ways to be played that it seemed needless; not like in a game like Bayonetta where you're ranked upon completion of each verse/chapter and the best way to play it is getting platinum/pure platinum medals; but FE is totally different.Tbh, I was never aware nor cared of getting a perfect ranking on FE7, I'm indifferent on its existence; but if it were to be implemented I'd like to see more stuff like Quick Clear/Turn ranking, Unit usage ranking, Funds, Enemies killed or preferably a ranking align to each chapter's objective (defend, route, survive). But feedback is really appreciated because it is a way the game orients the player to play the game in a specific way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I don't like Ranking Systems because I don't care very much about what the game arbitrarily decides to say about my play so much as what I find to be rewarding or interesting to pursue. For example, I recently replayed MGS2 and 3 on Euro Extreme (and in MGS2's case, Game Over If Spotted), with extra personal conditions of going Non Lethal. I made a mistake at one point during the Sniping Sequence with Emma and Vamp where I accidentally shot her once with the PGS1-T and because she has no Stamina Bar, that killed her. I duly continued since I didn't feel like doing the Sniping Segment all over again, but didn't realise that would actually count as a "Kill" on my card until later. I don't care the game said I had 1 kill at the end, because I know I didn't, and that's what matters to me as opposed to whatever rank the game wants to give. I fufilled all my objectives. On the flipside, I let Snake just murder everything in the Arsenal section, it doesnt count as a kill since I didn't do it and I couldn't be bothered to Tranq Snake and bluntsword like 100 Tengus by myself. Any Fire Emblem "Ranked" playthrough can be created if one is willing to set conditions themselves. Rules the developer sets are not neccessarily better than what the player sets. Any value or satisfaction derived from seeing a trophy or whatever pop up only really matters if one wants to brag about it to their peers. Edited October 12, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatsuoki Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The ranking system in general wasn't a really good indication of how well you did in the game anyway. While it calculates certain things like number of turns for tactics, funds etc, they don't really give feedback to the player on your current progress so I don't miss it all. Not to mention everyone plays FE differently. Some like going blitz in and while some prefer the slow turtle way, some prefer splitting their units in different groups etc. This especially. I personally don't like to use a ton of units so my strategy for each map differs from what would be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I actually thought about doing an FE6 ranked LTC since it's an interesting balance against just buying the max amount of boots (getting 501 levels while focusing on mounts so extensively is/seems to be hard to unify with LTC too), but I've never done a ranked playthrough for the sole purpose of it, nor do I plan to. I also doubt the ranking system is returning anytime soon, FE12's was pretty ineffective so I suspect the devs gave up on it. I wouldn't be opposed to it I guess. Edited October 12, 2015 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 I actually thought about doing an FE6 ranked LTC since it's an interesting balance against just buying the max amount of boots (getting 501 levels while focusing on mounts so extensively is/seems to be hard to unify with LTC too), but I've never done a ranked playthrough for the sole purpose of it, nor do I plan to. Yeah, I had actually been thinking a little bit about this as well. While it obviously still takes quite a bit of planning, I think it might be less tedious than FE7 because the lack of defense chapters (and the fact that everything is seize) means that at the very least you don't have to deal with the huge resource allocation/EXP distribution that such chapters give you (although you still have to think about warping and stat boosters...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrouded In Myth Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think that turn counts are the best ranking for FE. Well that with a sort of % completed that tallies up all the side objectives and characters that you were able to get. It will be similar to Metroid that ranks you on completion and time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think that turn counts are the best ranking for FE. Well that with a sort of % completed that tallies up all the side objectives and characters that you were able to get. It will be similar to Metroid that ranks you on completion and time. I think some measure of EXP gain is also very useful. It forces you to use all (or most) of your characters rather than just low-manning every chapter, which I think both requires more strategic planning for the entire campaign (in terms of EXP distribution) and tactical skill, since you aren't taking allowed to take the same group of uber-powered units to decimate each chapter beyond the first few (as would be the case in your generic LTC, even with all characters recruited) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Most of the chapters in FE9 and 10 award BEXP based on your "Tactics ranking", and transfers from FE9 to FE10 provide an incentive for a high "Experience ranking" in the former. (Granted, you have too little incentive to use most of the Dawn Brigade in the latter, but still...) There really hasn't been an equivalent to the Funds or Combat rankings to speak of, which I think is unfortunate. The Survival ranking goes without saying. I do think that there should be some sort of incentive for keeping your units alive even in "Casual" mode. Come to think of it, all of this (except the Experience ranking) could translate into BEXP, if they decide to bring back Tellius-style gameplay. Maybe the Experience ranking could translate into extra gold or stat boosts or something. I like the way FE7 did it though: Play well enough for long enough, and all of your units get defensive bonuses (and some get offensive bonuses) as shown by how many Tactician Stars you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Having thought about it, I don't think the kind of gameplay that the FE7 rankings reward is particularly interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I guess Anouleth and I can agree to disagree, then. I like how FE7 encourages you to finish chapters quickly, but not so quickly that you miss out on combat and experience; and to get experience from fighting, while also making sure not to fight too many battles against too few opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I think some measure of EXP gain is also very useful. i don't, if you want to compare something in fire emblem to super metroid or donkey kong country completion %age, character recruitment and treasure chests are better metrics. i don't even like using treasure or funds as a ranking measure because there can be a ton of treasures in a given FE game and some of them are just completely useless. Edited October 13, 2015 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 i don't, if you want to compare something in fire emblem to super metroid or donkey kong country completion %age, character recruitment and treasure chests are better metrics. i don't even like using treasure or funds as a ranking measure because there can be a ton of treasures in a given FE game and some of them are just completely useless.IIRC you can find empty chests in thracia if you didn't fill up leaf and lifis' inventories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 i don't, if you want to compare something in fire emblem to super metroid or donkey kong country completion %age, character recruitment and treasure chests are better metrics. i don't even like using treasure or funds as a ranking measure because there can be a ton of treasures in a given FE game and some of them are just completely useless. I don't mean in terms of measure of completing percentage, but rather as a means to force the player to develop strategies that utilize all (most) of their units instead of lowmanning. Why is this a good thing? [it] both requires more strategic planning for the entire campaign (in terms of EXP distribution) and tactical skill, since you aren't taking allowed to take the same group of uber-powered units to decimate each chapter beyond the first few (as would be the case in your generic LTC, even with all characters recruited) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Ranking system? Oh you mean that thing that meant absolutely nothing at all that tried to measure how good you were? Even when the support system actually went against how to play for ranks? Yeah i dont miss that BS at all. If it never came back, i wouldnt be upset in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I don't mean in terms of measure of completing percentage, but rather as a means to force the player to develop strategies that utilize all (most) of their units instead of lowmanning. Why is this a good thing? it's such a bad way to discourage low-manning. how about putting more effort into game design than patching over the problem with an arbitrary ranking system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 it's such a bad way to discourage low-manning. how about putting more effort into game design than patching over the problem with an arbitrary ranking system. Well, what would you propose as an alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 There's FE12 Lunatic. Enemies had very low defence so that even weaker units could provide meaty chip, and strong offence that scaled such that it was impossible to get ahead of the curve and start soloing with a strong unit. Beyond that, you need to make it more difficult for one unit to do everything. Stuff like Counter, and certain weapon effects in Fates. I'd also like fatigue to come back and have a smaller, continuous effect, but I'm going on a tangent here. There's nothing wrong with having a ranking system, but it's only effective if you care about the rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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