Serra or Lucius?

[General Horace]

Serra also has to detour in Chapter 14 anyway to recruit Erk, and if you played Lyn mode, he goes all aggro too.

You can augment Lucius's enemy phase (or anybody really) with Ninis grace to great effect too (it's especially awesome in the desert) since his offence is so good he's a good candidate for it.

[Irysa]

Sandbagging Lucius? I did it because you suggested it. I don't think it's a good idea.

It's comparatively sandbagging if you instant promote one character then compare the stats to a non instant promoted character. And it ignores that it takes a considerably longer amount of time for Serra to get to 18-20 and promote and have good combat compared to Lucius, so he's making combat contributions for much longer.

I don't think you realize what the experience gains are like in hard mode. Serra may look like she's gaining experience slowly, but it's at a constant pace that only gets faster, while Lucius' experience gains actually get slower over time. She's also almost certainly going to be at a higher level than him when he joins.

Give me turncounts for your chapters so I can actually see how many uses of Heal Serra is getting to use before 17x. You need to spend like 30 turns (can't heal on turn 1 on most of them too) to get Serra to equal to Lucius's base level between Chapters 12 to 17x, and if we assume Lyn Mode, Lucius is more than capable of at least getting 2 levels (3 is doable without going slow but w/e), wheras Serra gets 1 level at best. You have 14 turns of defence maps that are a given, which helps, but Serra is only at max going to match Lucius' base level of 3 and have maybe like 30~ exp more on raw HHM (and he rockets ahead anyway).

EDIT: Can't math, for some reason I did 300 / 11 instead of 200. Serra still shouldn't be more than 3.5, at best level 4 if raw HHM, and Lucius overtakes her fast. With Lyn Mode, it's slightly more even but Lucius is still ahead.

Anyway even if Serra does somehow have a level lead, she has to have like 10 levels over Lucius to match his offence on promotion because of aforementioned problems of mag and con.

Then my 2nd scenario applies and Serra still wins.

Because...?

A less-experienced player isn't a moron, especially if they're playing on hard mode, which means they've already beaten the game at least once. I figured out by my 2nd run over ten years ago that healing constantly to level up my healers would be a good idea since I had a level 12 Priscilla at the final chapter as a result of only healing when I absolutely needed to. It doesn't take a genius to realize that healing at every opportunity, including the 1 HP after a level up, is smart.

Getting better staves is another matter, but Torch and Barrier can be seen in time to get, and a player who is on the internet asking for advice probably has access to secret shop locations. (Though I figured this one out by myself, too, since the floor tile for the shop with Physics is very obviously different from most. Maybe I'm just a natural)

But even if the player isn't good enough to get all those staves, I'd still recommend Serra. Actually, especially if they aren't that good, because that means they are that much more likely to be in dire need of healing at any given time, and Lucius is more likely to just get killed.

Lucius is absolute garbage in the arena, btw. Unpromoted units in hard mode trying the arena naturally have a difficult time, and Lucius is likely to be OHKOd without a Ninis' Grace boost. Besides, arena abuse helps Serra just as much, since you'll need her to heal those abusing. To her advantage, though, she isn't at risk of dying with this method.

Lol so basically you're allowed to conjure up your imaginary player who knows where all the secret shops are, knows how to staff abuse but doesn't know how to use a glass cannon type unit. I shouldn't even have to argue that point anymore, because training Lucius requires about as much foreknowledge and understanding of the game as that does.

A scenario where the player needs lots of healing is deliberately skewed to Serra early on, but I made a reasonable demonstration that Lucius can pretty quickly become a more versatile staffer with strong enough offence to ORKO nearly all unpromoted physical enemies, which make up a majority of this game's mooks. You're basically trying to argue that because Serra ends up becoming equivilant/slightly better to that after a significantly longer period of time Serra is somehow better. You're overweighting the lategame and not examining the overall picture, and it's not even like this well trained Serra does particularly well vs whatever enemies Lucius isn't strong enough to kill himself (like Heroes or whatever).

If I believed they were bad, I would have said they were bad. All I'm saying is that early promoting most units makes the game tougher later on than it needs to be. It's not worth the small immediate bonuses for most players.

It makes the lategame a little tougher and makes the midgame much easier. There are many more midgame maps than endgame maps. It's a fallacy to say that it makes the game as a whole tougher.

I don't care which one is "the better unit." I care which one I would tell a person to use.

Well I'm not policing your preference of who you would tell someone to use. But we're evaluating who the better unit is in order to deduce who should be reccomended. Aside from some rather specific examples relying on exact criteria, Lucius is decidedly the better unit.

Lucius has to actually get near enemies to do something. Serra can heal someone who then moves away to fight enemies. There's really no way to spin this in anything but Serra's advantage.

Okay so you're now saying we're going to leave Lucius in the middle of enemies yet we're not going to leave Serra in the middle of enemies? Come on now Fox, if Lucius kills a unit, someone else can kill another unit, that's what we deployed them for!

I don't quite get how having a 19/2 Serra means you went really slow...or you're ranked? But ranking does have some semblance of speed, so if it can be done in ranked, surely it can be done without assuming some super-slow play.

Having a Serra at that level by 23x is playing slow, and ranked is slow because you generally milk maps for EXP and wait out Defence/Kill Boss equivilants longer than you need to. Besides, nobody said Serra wasn't better in Ranked, because the nature of Ranked ends up making staff users amazing.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Irysa

[Brinzy]

Give me turncounts for your chapters so I can actually see how many uses of Heal Serra is getting to use before 17x. You need to spend like 30 turns (can't heal on turn 1 on most of them too) to get Serra to equal to Lucius's base level between Chapters 12 to 17x, and if we assume Lyn Mode, Lucius is more than capable of at least getting 2 levels (3 is doable without going slow but w/e), wheras Serra gets 1 level at best. You have 14 turns of defence maps that are a given, which helps, but Serra is only at max going to match Lucius' base level of 3 and have maybe like 30~ exp more on raw HHM (and he rockets ahead anyway). Anyway even if Serra does somehow have a level lead, she has to have like 10 levels over Lucius to match his offence on promotion because of aforementioned problems of mag and con.

If they start around even levels, Lucius might pull ahead very slightly over the Dread Isle chapters, but some things to consider:

- he's not at all a good pick for 17x

- 18 features plenty of units he can't actually ORKO, so some turns, he might not even get a killing blow. At level 6, Lucius only gains 10 experience a hit. Of course, he'll get a kill every now and then, but at level 6 he was getting 20 experience per kill. This is around what it stayed as until Chapter 22, when it took a sharp decline since I used Lucius plenty and he was around level 13 by the end of Chapter 21.

- 19 has enough deployment and fog to justify bringing Serra and Lucius. Lucius gets demolished by nomads, pegasus knights, pirates... pretty much everyone except the other spellcasters, so he's left for clean-up duty.

- 19x is absolutely not in favor of Lucius.

- 20 has enough deployment and drama going on to use both units. Not considering LTC because it doesn't seem reasonable to talk about LTC, not that it'd help Lucius anyway.

Furthermore, bear in mind that even if my personal turn counts are slow and give Serra a lot more experience, Lucius hitting one thing a turn is about how much experience Serra gets, so he'd lose the same experience. If he hits more than that or kills something, he gains more, but if you cut out all my other turns that I didn't need to take and Lucius otherwise fights more than one enemy, Lucius actually loses significantly more experience. That's only if Lucius does a lot of fighting on enemy phase, which he really shouldn't.

With that in mind, I have a better argument. You argued that there are fewer enemies near the end of the chapter, so ending them using half the turns still nets you more than half the experience; my counterpoint to this, as far as Lucius is concerned, is that he does not take on significantly more enemies at any point of any chapter. He has to sit behind tanky units to not die easily and essentially only has a player phase or an enemy phase where he counters like one enemy safely. Compare this to Serra, who just recently got access to Torch and, after chapter 20, Barrier.

Now Lucius getting 20 experience per kill isn't as impressive when Serra's getting an easy 15-17 experience per usage. Did I mention that's per kill? Per hit, Lucius gains less. This trend continues for the rest of the game; Lucius stays frail as hell, his experience slows down over time, and he eventually promotes and still has to backline staff abuse because he's, well, deathprone. Meanwhile, Serra, who doesn't fall off a cliff unless you decide to not use her, only gains experience faster.

The level difference between the two can be argued many ways, but no way in hell does Lucius take off without significant feeding in 18 and maybe 19.

How is it heavy RN abuse? Lucius can tank the Elfire mage fine and use a vulnerary next turn at a forest. The rest of the enemies have like sub 50 hit, pirates having 20s and 30s and the archer being the only threat due to higher hit and high crt. It is just a way to illustrate Lucius's utility (or potential utility, if you prefer such term).

You're going to spend likely five turns on 17x, and one of those turns involves Lucius not doing anything. Level 5 Lucius has (displayed, and on forest tiles) 19 HP, 2 Def, 8 Res, and 44 Avo. The archer can OHKO Lucius without a crit at about 55% displayed accuracy. The mage deals 14 damage with Elfire at 74% displayed accuracy. The weak pirates have around 40% displayed accuracy and do 13 damage to him. There are five pirates that can OHKO Lucius that have displayed hit values between 30-40%; the Swordslayer one in particular has accuracy around the 50s, and if you don't kill him immediately for whatever reason, he will go after a OHKO. The shaman has a low hit rate on Lucius, but Lucius actually has less Mag than the shaman has Res at this point. Steel Sword Damian OHKOs at 50% displayed accuracy and takes no damage from Lucius.

This ignores the fact that Lucius is at his absolute weakest in terms of combat, the slots are very limited, and you've got a ton of swordies (Raven, Guy, Lyn, Eli, horseman) that you'd want to bring to soak up easy experience from axes or one-round the non-melee. Also, remember this is all on a forest tile. I suppose if you form a chokehold and allow Lucius to take every kill, it's doable. Of course, you're going to lose a lot more experience this way, and it really doesn't make sense to plan for such a role when you get Canas anyway.

.A scenario where the player needs lots of healing is deliberately skewed to Serra early on, but I made a reasonable demonstration that Lucius can pretty quickly become a more versatile staffer with strong enough offence to ORKO nearly all unpromoted physical enemies, which make up a majority of this game's mooks. You're basically trying to argue that because Serra ends up becoming equivilant/slightly better to that after a significantly longer period of time Serra is somehow better. You're overweighting the lategame and not examining the overall picture, and it's not even like this well trained Serra does particularly well vs whatever enemies Lucius isn't strong enough to kill himself (like Heroes or whatever).

The whole argument about how Lucius is rushing promotion and spamming a staff so he can use Warp and how his high Magic is good for Warping is overweighting late game. Honestly, when you're given Pent and pretty much every caster with an A in staves will have double digits of Magic, mentioning this minor point in favor of Lucius is reaching. (This is framed specifically towards people who made this argument.)

If we're now considering other parts of the game, I'm still really not sure how Lucius is somehow significantly better than Serra just because he can fight. Sure, I can see how like a level 15 promoted Lucius can do a good enough job healing while doing damage, but Serra doesn't have a significant level disadvantage by any means, if she has one at all.

15/1 Lucius w/ Lightning   22 Atk 15 AS
15/1 Serra w/ Lightning    16 Atk 13 AS

15/1 Lucius w/ Shine       24 Atk 14 AS
15/1 Serra w/ Shine        18 Atk 11 AS 

My chapter 24 was highlighted earlier for having a 19/2 Serra, but Lightning!Serra can double every wyvern and corsair while picking up kills on some of them. Shine!Serra can double some Javelin wyverns, every Steel Lance wyvern, and plenty of the axers. Same story with the kills. Lucius can double the slowest Steel Sword mercs and that's it compared to Serra. He secures a few more kills on the other enemies, to be fair. All I'm trying to highlight here is the offense difference is only large whenever he can double and she can't. Given Serra actually levels faster and her good Mag growth, her offense stays relevant against typical low Res fools.

The longer the game goes, the more potential experience Serra can receive, and that's a bigger chunk of the game than a few uses of Warp. Even bigger than that is her availability, her niche, and how she quickly gets real Avoid and slightly higher concrete defenses, not to mention not having to expose herself to combat to do her early to midgame job. Lucius clearly has advantages compared to Serra, but I think Serra's "shortcomings" compared to Lucius are exaggerated.

Having a Serra at that level by 23x is playing slow, and ranked is slow because you generally milk maps for EXP and wait out Defence/Kill Boss equivilants longer than you need to.

Okay, but realize that my Lucius, who was heavily used, was only level 15 entering that map and that he also got a benefit from me completing chapters 18 through 22 slower. Also realize that my high experience staves and usage of Ninian was also spent on Priscilla. It's not like you can knock off levels from Serra but ignore that Lucius himself is also inflated or the fact that my Serra could have been even higher with those turns.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Brinzy

[Kylo Drumman]

Id say Both...

The reason is that Serra(if leveled up) can use Latona staff, while Lucius can use the S rank Light Tome.

Postscript: I am not sure if the S rank staff is called Latona in Fe7.

But if I had to choose I'd say Serra.

[Shadow Mir]

Id say Both...

The reason is that Serra(if leveled up) can use Latona staff, while Lucius can use the S rank Light Tome.

Postscript: I am not sure if the S rank staff is called Latona in Fe7.

But if I had to choose I'd say Serra.

There is no S rank staff in FE7.

[Irysa]

@Brinzy

I don't have time to post a long and detailed reply right now (I got through like, one chapter analysis worth of things, I'll make a full response later), so I just want to clear up one major misconception.

If you're assuming he's level 6 that means Lyn mode, and I was talking about base HHM Lucius.

Serra is only at max going to match Lucius' base level of 3 and have maybe like 30~ exp more on raw HHM (and he rockets ahead anyway).

Yes, he won't "rocket" ahead with Lyn mode levels, but then he has a comfortable lead as it is anyway. At level 3, his EXP gain is like 40 to 50 per kill.

Also I reviewed I was an idiot and made the stupid error of calculating level 3 as taking 300 EXP instead of 200, derp. Edited that post.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Irysa

[Brinzy]

Irysa my own dumbness from earlier is rubbing off on you, haha. No worries man.

If there is no Lyn's mode, then that does change things up.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Brinzy

[Irysa]

- he's not at all a good pick for 17x

Hey man, he talks to the tactician if you deploy him in 17x, that's good enough for me.

I'd ask, who's a better pick? We also obviously need Florina to get the quick clear so she's a given. Raven is a good choice because he wants to promote quickly so he can use hand axes, and he can solo the top portion of the map just fine. Promoted Raven has significant useful contributions for much of rest of the game so we can assume him. What about the last three slots? Florina can rescue someone to 4 turn and get one of the western treasures, or you can 5 turn with both, or you can 6 turn with just Florina handling everything. I can't actually can't remember if the 6 turn works but I don't see why it shouldn't.

There should be someone to beat up Damian and tank a pirate or two. Hector can significantly dent (if not kill) Damian himself, but he doesn't do particularly well vs the Pirates. If you're doing the faster clears, Hector is a good candidate for Florina to rescue, because he's force deployed anyway, and Hector really shouldn't be getting priority on EXP rich targets given his very late promotion, and as previously mentioned, he can't really help other units kill Pirates effectively. Swordies do okay vs the Pirates (Swordslayer aside) but they aren't good vs Damian (even with her Mani Katti Lyn doesn't do that much damage), and he moves first. A Paladin is the most flexable due to weapon triangle control and their durability. So Marcus/Lyn Mode Paladin/Promoted Lowen all work vs both the Pirates and the Boss, although Kent and Lowen probably have to bust out the Horseslayer to put the Hurt on Damian. Marcus in particular can quite easily feed kills to units of your choice without a hassle. So a Paladin is a good choice.

Then you've got two slots left. A staff user isn't too important given the short length of the chapter, and they can clog the chokes. It's easiest to feed kills to units attacking over the head of the Paladin. Archers suck, Javelins are a bit too inaccurate, so the power and accuracy of magic make it pretty good here. Your "long term" Cavalier is a decent choice as well since they can do things like team up with Canas to get a kill or two, or in my case, I give my "short term" Cavalier in Lowen an extra boost if he needs it before promotion.

Why's Lucius bad on this map again?

- 18 features plenty of units he can't actually ORKO, so some turns, he might not even get a killing blow. At level 6, Lucius only gains 10 experience a hit. Of course, he'll get a kill every now and then, but at level 6 he was getting 20 experience per kill. This is around what it stayed as until Chapter 22, when it took a sharp decline since I used Lucius plenty and he was around level 13 by the end of Chapter 21.

Cleared up this misconception earlier but may as well restate - if he's getting less EXP then he's gotten Lyn levels and so will be ahead enough of Serra to have a comfortable lead anyway.

As for not ORKOing units, again I don't really see this as a big deal, since I usually just rush the boss with Marcus whilst he and Paladin Lowen significantly weaken/kill most of the enemies, whilst Raven and Hector choke a few points and Matt steals the Pure Water on turn 1, the Whip on turn 2, then Florina helps him get over to steal the Ring on turn whatever. I don't have any problems having Lucius get a kill each turn here.

- 19 has enough deployment and fog to justify bringing Serra and Lucius. Lucius gets demolished by nomads, pegasus knights, pirates... pretty much everyone except the other spellcasters, so he's left for clean-up duty.

Yeah but most of this map consists of having Paladins charge the boss whilst you're mostly just having units like Oswin or Raven tank enemy phases near the starting position then having other units clean up afterwards. Lucius works fine in that context.

- 19x is absolutely not in favor of Lucius.

Yeah, conceded earlier. He's still not terrible on this map though, but between deploying Canas to clear the Knights and Mages out on the mountain, Fiora to get him there, Matt to steal the Silver Card, Raven to kill the Pegs, a Staff User, Marcus to clear the way/kill the boss, you've only got two slots left, and those are probably better left to your other Paladin and a Cavalier/Florina (gets Hector over faster). In my case I want to go to 19xx since even though I play raw HHM I use a patched rom to get there just by killing Kishuna, so I don't care about deploying Florina since Hector doesn't need to get over in a big hurry. As such, I usually deploy Sain over her.

- 20 has enough deployment and drama going on to use both units. Not considering LTC because it doesn't seem reasonable to talk about LTC, not that it'd help Lucius anyway.

I'm starting to get confused, because if we're assuming no Pris, then obviously you'll want Serra deployed until Lucius promotes no?

Anyway, is a 7 to 9 turn really LTC? You can definitely get pretty much everything in that timeframe just by having your Paladins ram the boss whilst other mounties get Lyn to Legault/get Matt to the top chests. I don't think Serra's particularly good here though since the main Paladin rush is the group that needs healing the most, and she'll sort of struggle to keep up.

Furthermore, bear in mind that even if my personal turn counts are slow and give Serra a lot more experience, Lucius hitting one thing a turn is about how much experience Serra gets, so he'd lose the same experience. If he hits more than that or kills something, he gains more, but if you cut out all my other turns that I didn't need to take and Lucius otherwise fights more than one enemy, Lucius actually loses significantly more experience. That's only if Lucius does a lot of fighting on enemy phase, which he really shouldn't.

Yeah but Lucius only has to maintain a decent rate of kills per map to pull quite far ahead and that's not hard at all. I can't really be bothered to watch all your videos but from "personal experience" Lucius always has a decent level lead and has no trouble maintaining it vs Pris, who shares his base level. The nature of ranked makes it bad to give higher leveled units kills, so I'm pretty sure you must have been funneling EXP into other units to hit the EXP ranks, which hurts Lucius more than it hurts Serra.

With that in mind, I have a better argument. You argued that there are fewer enemies near the end of the chapter, so ending them using half the turns still nets you more than half the experience; my counterpoint to this, as far as Lucius is concerned, is that he does not take on significantly more enemies at any point of any chapter. He has to sit behind tanky units to not die easily and essentially only has a player phase or an enemy phase where he counters like one enemy safely. Compare this to Serra, who just recently got access to Torch and, after chapter 20, Barrier.

The point was more that if you take that long then you could have set up a kill for Lucius every turn in which case he's still easily besting Serra. I suppose your counterargument is that takes more effort/deprives EXP away from better units, wheras Serra doesn't require the same kind of planning, but the argument is skewed if we assume we're going to put lots of effort into making sure Serra gets a steady EXP gain and Lucius doesn't get that same priority. It's hard to say it's overt favouritism for Lucius when getting ORKOs on lots of these enemies is barely out of reach for most of our units anyway, so combining for kills is a frequent given.

Now Lucius getting 20 experience per kill isn't as impressive when Serra's getting an easy 15-17 experience per usage. Did I mention that's per kill? Per hit, Lucius gains less. This trend continues for the rest of the game; Lucius stays frail as hell, his experience slows down over time, and he eventually promotes and still has to backline staff abuse because he's, well, deathprone. Meanwhile, Serra, who doesn't fall off a cliff unless you decide to not use her, only gains experience faster.

Except Serra is like, level 10 at Chapter 23 wheras Lucius is already way ahead of that and has probably been ORKOing enemies for a while now. I mean, fair point, once Serra eventually does reach benchmarks to actually ORKO enemies and promotes, she'll grow faster, but at this point she's missed out on killing things for a good chunk of the game. Growing faster thing is largely irrelevant because neither of them need to get significantly stronger, as they're they're never going to be good vs the enemies they don't preform well against already. It might help Serra close the Mag gap for Warping though, but that's unlikely seeing as she's behind 6 mag from base stats and promo alone, and Lucius has a higher Mag growth. Serra needs to get 12 extra levels to catch up in the flat Mag adv Lucius has, and then another 2 levels for every 10 Lucius has achieved to overcome the growth difference. Even with Bishop EXP multiplier that is really steep. Her enemy phase might be better due to increased avo, but she's still getting 2HKO'd by most enemy combinations, and the avo difference is like 10 points at max for most of the game given Serra's dropping Speed just to fight, and speed affects avo more than Luck does. That's really not much better at all, and hardly makes her more capable of fronting than Lucius is.

The level difference between the two can be argued many ways, but no way in hell does Lucius take off without significant feeding in 18 and maybe 19.

Define significant. Is a kill a turn feeding?

The whole argument about how Lucius is rushing promotion and spamming a staff so he can use Warp and how his high Magic is good for Warping is overweighting late game. Honestly, when you're given Pent and pretty much every caster with an A in staves will have double digits of Magic, mentioning this minor point in favor of Lucius is reaching. (This is framed specifically towards people who made this argument.)

No it's demonstrating his lategame advantage over Serra on top of his earlier combat advantages.

If we're now considering other parts of the game, I'm still really not sure how Lucius is somehow significantly better than Serra just because he can fight. Sure, I can see how like a level 15 promoted Lucius can do a good enough job healing while doing damage, but Serra doesn't have a significant level disadvantage by any means, if she has one at all.

Man, I don't know what else to say at this point. If Pris is consistently like 5 levels behind Lucius by the time Chapter 20 rolls around, there's no way Serra is doing any better without extreme bias one way or the other.

15/1 Lucius w/ Lightning 22 Atk 15 AS
15/1 Serra w/ Lightning 16 Atk 13 AS

15/1 Lucius w/ Shine 24 Atk 14 AS
15/1 Serra w/ Shine 18 Atk 11 AS

These stats are wrong. Serra loses AS from tomes and doesn't have that much Mag. Here are their actual offensive stats at 15/1

15/1 Lucius w/ Lightning 20 Atk 15 AS
15/1 Serra w/ Lightning 14 Atk 13 AS

15/1 Lucius w/ Shine 22 Atk 14 AS
15/1 Serra w/ Shine 16 Atk 11 AS

Serra's can't ORKO lots of enemies at 15/1 with Lightning because many enemies are sitting at about 30 to 32 hp throughout the midgame, and she can't double most of them with Shine. Lucius gets everything. Your stat observations for ORKOs fall flat because you misrepresented Serra's stats.

The longer the game goes, the more potential experience Serra can receive, and that's a bigger chunk of the game than a few uses of Warp. Even bigger than that is her availability, her niche, and how she quickly gets real Avoid and slightly higher concrete defenses, not to mention not having to expose herself to combat to do her early to midgame job. Lucius clearly has advantages compared to Serra, but I think Serra's "shortcomings" compared to Lucius are exaggerated.

Yeah but she took way longer to get to that point than Lucius who was making larger contributions for longer, then had a better Warp range for the lategame. I've debunked the durability lead difference earlier.

Okay, but realize that my Lucius, who was heavily used, was only level 15 entering that map and that he also got a benefit from me completing chapters 18 through 22 slower. Also realize that my high experience staves and usage of Ninian was also spent on Priscilla. It's not like you can knock off levels from Serra but ignore that Lucius himself is also inflated or the fact that my Serra could have been even higher with those turns.

Addressed earlier.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Irysa

[Refa]

Can't you rescue drop Lucius instead of Canas in 19x or is there something I'm missing?

[Irysa]

He needs to have 11 Mag to ORKO all the knights (avg level 10). That's a little difficult to achieve. If he has made it to that, he can sub in fine. We actually went over this point earlier.

Meanwhile Canas does the job perfectly at base.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Irysa

[Viberum]

Lucius can attack which means he gains exp faster.

Lucius has a much faster support growth than Serra if you don't like grinding for turns.