Ike is overrated

[Baldrick]

All things being equal, requiring less resources is better.

[Nym]

If Ana finds this post, it's all over for all of us.

Idk, maybe, probably.

[Radiant head]

I think speed without resource dumping is way more important than 1-2 range. I always dump Boyd for Janaff and Ulki.

[Shadow Mir]

As I see it, Boyd just can't hold a candle to Ike. It doesn't really help that he's nothing special.

[Junkhead]

I think speed without resource dumping is way more important than 1-2 range. I always dump Boyd for Janaff and Ulki.

You're saying that as if said resource dumping isn't going to be of any use. We're not giving to unit that will only be prevented from being 1RKO'd, like say, Rhys or Mist. We're giving it to someone who can potentially take over Part 3.

As I see it, Boyd just can't hold a candle to Ike. It doesn't really help that he's nothing special.

Clearly hasn't read the whole post, sadly. Please read before saying things like thse. I don't feel like repeating what I said.

[Shadow Mir]

You're saying that as if said resource dumping isn't going to be of any use. We're not giving to unit that will only be prevented from being 1RKO'd, like say, Rhys or Mist. We're giving it to someone who can potentially take over Part 3.

Clearly hasn't read the whole post, sadly. Please read before saying things like thse. I don't feel like repeating what I said.

I did - and I ain't impressed. Boyd takes way too long to dig himself out of his speed hole. And BEXP doesn't really help Boyd because most of his growths are rather close to each other such that you can't predict what stats go up. And that's on top of the issues mentioned by Mekkah et al.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Radiant head]

You're saying that as if said resource dumping isn't going to be of any use. We're not giving to unit that will only be prevented from being 1RKO'd, like say, Rhys or Mist. We're giving it to someone who can potentially take over Part 3[/i

As opposed to the handful of units you already do that with much less?

[Junkhead]

As opposed to the handful of units you already do that with much less?

And "handful"? You mean Haar and Titania? They both want a Speedwings and Boyd isn't even taking it away from them. What are you losing that's so important and "so much"? He only requires a tiny bit of BEXP and an Angelic Robe. The Angelic Robe caps his HP, which only leaves you with Str, Def & Skill/Spd for highest growths. You can easily BEXP Spd up that way. 23 AS Boyd by the end of 3-7, Crown. It's not so difficult to understand.

[Shadow Mir]

And "handful"? You mean Haar and Titania? They both want a Speedwings and Boyd isn't even taking it away from them. What are you losing that's so important and "so much"? He only requires a tiny bit of BEXP and an Angelic Robe. The Angelic Robe caps his HP, which only leaves you with Str, Def & Skill/Spd for highest growths. You can easily BEXP Spd up that way. 23 AS Boyd by the end of 3-7, Crown. It's not so difficult to understand.

gj completely ignoring what I posted:

BEXP doesn't really help Boyd because most of his growths are rather close to each other such that you can't predict what stats go up.

[Junkhead]

I said what I had to say, I didn't mean to be rude. Your answer's basically the same I gave him:

He only requires a tiny bit of BEXP and an Angelic Robe. The Angelic Robe caps his HP, which only leaves you with Str, Def & Skill/Spd for highest growths. You can easily BEXP Spd up that way. 23 AS Boyd by the end of 3-7, Crown. It's not so difficult to understand.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Soul o:

[dondon151]

i'd buy transfers boyd > either ike (in the context of a transfers run where titania won't need a speedwings) but vanilla boyd is not very good

Edited December 2, 2015 by dondon151

[Radiant head]

And "handful"? You mean Haar and Titania? They both want a Speedwings and Boyd isn't even taking it away from them. What are you losing that's so important and "so much"? He only requires a tiny bit of BEXP and an Angelic Robe. The Angelic Robe caps his HP, which only leaves you with Str, Def & Skill/Spd for highest growths. You can easily BEXP Spd up that way. 23 AS Boyd by the end of 3-7, Crown. It's not so difficult to understand.

Base Boyd has 45 HP, and his cap is 53 HP. I'd like to know where you find this super angelic robe from. You could go through the pain of leveling him up...or I could just bench him and use all the units that don't have his speed deficit. Not to mention, on HM, there are so many things I'd rather do with BEXP than get Boyd out of his speed hole that most other units don't have to deal with.

You're right it's not difficult to understand. I just don't buy it.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Radiant head

[Refa]

Uh, I'm pretty sure Angelic Robes give +7HP. Yeah, it's not exactly 53HP, but it's only one level.

[Radiant head]

Yeah, but it's one level for one of the only characters who can't double anything.

Obviously if you like Boyd you could do it, but I'm just not seeing why people who don't think he's usable are supposed to find this convincing.

[Refa]

I mean, I don't really agree with him either, but I haven't played through HM myself.

[Augestein]

Eh? I wouldn't really say he's overrated in RD. He's pretty strong. He has a weakness to mages, but with Earth affinity generally has enough dodge to move out of the way. Sure, he's worse than some of the powerful mobile units, but he's better than about 75% of the characters in RD. I'd say he's pretty darn good for doing that.

[Shadow Mir]

I said what I had to say, I didn't mean to be rude. Your answer's basically the same I gave him:

What part of "his growths are close to each other, so it's far from a guarantee" did you not understand? On top of that, I just don't find your argument convincing in the least.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Junkhead]

Well, then. It's good I'm not a huge fan of arguing with people who are being delibirately dense. We're just running circles here.

Good day (well, night)~.

Eh? I wouldn't really say he's overrated in RD. He's pretty strong. He has a weakness to mages, but with Earth affinity generally has enough dodge to move out of the way. Sure, he's worse than some of the powerful mobile units, but he's better than about 75% of the characters in RD. I'd say he's pretty darn good for doing that.

I guess, lol.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Not sure if sarcasm.

not really:

• He's as slow as Micaiah.
• He has the lowest base res of the GM's.
• He can get critted easily.
• A crit by a thundersage can oneshot him.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Shadow Mir]

Well, then. It's good I'm not a huge fan of arguing with people who are being delibirately dense. We're just running circles here.

Good day (well, night)~.

My, how droll. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I mean, seriously? You're hoping that Boyd misses one of three growths that are equal to or better than his speed growth, whilst hoping that luck, which is only 5% behind skill and speed, doesn't sneak in (to say nothing of the fact that even with the angelic robe, Boyd needs another level beforehand to max out HP)? Come on, man.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Junkhead]

Sorry Richter, I have to.

not really:

• He's as slow as Micaiah.
• He has the lowest base res of the GM's.
• He can get critted easily.
• A crit by a thundersage can oneshot him.

You only mean Spd growth-wise. He's not...by ANY MEANS, lawl. Ever. Those are super negligible. They don't have much Crit.% on him and it's rather easy to dodge them, otherwise Haar would like to say "Hi"...

[Dunal]

I know that the Wind Edge is strictly inferior to the Handaxe (-3 MT, -10 HIT), but based on base stats is Boyd's 2 range ever better than Ike's? The tradeoff is 1 MT for 6 HIT and 5 AS. Enemy weapon disparity may effect this but probably not to a huge degree.

Although Handaxes can be forged but not until 3-8, which isn't far off from Ragnell. That's a short space of time for Boyd to have a stronger niche if his speed can get up to par.

I can see the argument that Boyd is underrated (On HM I personally feel he fares better than Mia for instance) but can't really say he's better than Ike. The latter has a durability lead as well.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Tbf I exaggerated with my comment still a bit.

I only tried to say that Ike isn't invulnerable at all like some people tend to say.

5-7% crit chance against him isn't bad. It happened more than once in a run that he gets critted. A halberdier can bring him <50% HP with a crit. Three magic users can kill him.

And yes, I was referring to his speed growth.

Boyd with his speed base on HM... OH DEAR. By far more a victim than Mist (low bases) and Rolf (overlooked by Shinon).

[Dunal]

In terms of getting doubled in HM, Boyd's got nothing to worry about in part 3 until like 3-E, since enemy AS rarely ever go beyond 20 the whole time. Except swordmasters who consistently double him. Warriors in 3-E also double Boyd at base (but there's pretty moot since Boyd would have gained at least 1-2 speed...).

That's also a point in Ike's favor though since he borderline doubles everything except swordmasters (who have ~24 AS on average) throughout the entirety of part 3.

Average enemy AS is 18 or 19 so Boyd needs about 5 speed (basically Ike's base) to double much. That's about 8 levels and a speedwing. With BEXP you might be able to get that down to 6 levels or something. But on HM, EXP isn't huge to come by.

Edited December 2, 2015 by DLuna

[Junkhead]

I never said Boyd's winning at base, even if he has 2-range access earlier. Ike's actually winning 3-P - maybe 3-5, which is the time Boyd can take The Crown and beat him under the setup I proposed (which nobody seems to have read, and that it doesn't even imply actual, full BEXP levels). Boyd's realistically winning 3-8 - 3-E, they're a rough tie by Part 4 (both kill everything) and Boyd's insignificant advantage of being better at 4-E-5.

Ike: 3-P - 3-5 (6 chapters)

Boyd 3-7 - 3-E (5 chapters)

So, yeah. Turns out Ike wins by, like, 1 chapter. This is assuming either of them are doing anything at 3-5 & 3-11. And I'm not counting 4-E-5, lol.

This turned into Boyd vs. Ike pretty quickly. I may have made it seem that way, but it was only an example of how an underrated unit can actually matchup to Ike. The others beat him, for sure.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Soul o: