Best Father For Morgan?

[Czar_Yoshi]

'Best' is left open for interpretation by what the individual themselves judge is most important for them.

I'm going to hazard a guess you're one of those people who doesn't believe in Smash tiers, either.

News flash: some units are better than others. You can't increase someone's maximum potential simply by liking them, the game doesn't work that way.

[Dwlr]

Wait, am I chopped liver? I already explained why Aptitude isn't that great, even in-game. You're either going full grind or not, and even if you're going halfway, you'll still need a lot more levels than you think. So either you're funneling a lot of experience into Donnel/Morgan (not that the latter minds, but still), or you're not getting the "full" benefits of Aptitude. And if you're overleveling anyway, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

If I'm that desperate for Aptitutde, I'll use one of the Marth variants, because he doesn't have Donnel's modifiers.

Yes?

Any difference it makes in terms of leveling gives Donnel an edge over the other fathers and .'. still deserves mention when discussing who's 'best', if a father fits one person's definition of 'best' than that father is indeed the best father for Morgan even if every single other person disagrees.

The thread isn't about Aptitude it's about Morgan and .'. bringing up Marth or Aptitude outside of the context of Morgan doesn't really fit into the thread.

*Just for the record I'm not defending Donnel because I personally think he's 'good'*

I'm going to hazard a guess you're one of those people who doesn't believe in Smash tiers, either.

News flash: some units are better than others. You can't increase someone's maximum potential simply by liking them, the game doesn't work that way.

Tiers are different, the original purpose of the tiers were to judge averages of whom is expected to beat whom, they don't define that X is 'better' than Y in any sense nor are they saying the 'best' players use X. They also have nothing to do with Fire Emblem.

News flash not everybody defines 'better' the same way. Since you brought up Smash tiers I guess I'm allowed to go outside the topic as well to make a point. If I have car that gets 50 miles per gallon, but has a top speed of say 30 miles per hour and I have a car that gets 10 miles per gallon, but has a top speed of 200 miles per hour which car is better? 50 mpg saves money, but takes longer to get there, 10mpg gets your there, but at a cost to your wallet. You can pick either or and prefer either and that choice is 'best' for you, but that doesn't mean it's the 'best' choice for everybody. What you're doing is trying to force your idea of what's best as the definitive idea of what's best and you simply can't do that or rather you can't do so and actually be correct it simply doesn't work that way, for anything not just the game. You can only say one is better than another if every single aspect is superior in some way and you can't even do that with two different units as the character arts are different. If somebody wants green hair for Morgan than you wouldn't say Vaike (or anybody with non-green hair) is the best father, well you might considering your tunnel vision. Btw it's none of my business, but you really should have that checked sometime. At any rate if somebody's parameter for what's best is simply hair color than that is what best, it doesn't fit your 'maximum potential' best, but it's the best all the same.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Dwlr

[Czar_Yoshi]

Stop repeating what I say.

Yes, people can and do have their own preferences for things to focus on. But this is an advice thread, and when someone asks "what's the best at X" telling them everyone's good at something, even if it's technically correct, isn't useful to them. If someone asks for the best, and you want to provide useful advice, you need to make a judgement call about what the most useful answer would be. If you need further clarification on what they want it to do, you ask.

As for the car example, MPG and top speed are both very important factors. But not all factors are equally important- a third car could have worse MPG and top speed than those first two, but come with a snazzy hood decal. Does that make it the best? Well, it does have the best hood decal, but in general, that's just not as important and people are less likely to care about it.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

If somebody wants green hair for Morgan than you wouldn't say Vaike (or anybody with non-green hair) is the best father, well you might considering your tunnel vision. Btw it's none of my business, but you really should have that checked sometime. At any rate if somebody's parameter for what's best is simply hair color than that is what best, it doesn't fit your 'maximum potential' best, but it's the best all the same.

uhhh...for your information, I happen to be fucking bias and I love FeMU x Priam with a burning passion. And yet, you don't see me go off posting "OMG! Priam!MMorgan is the best, use it because this, this, and that, etc."

But I will openly admit that there are much 'better' options for pragmatic reasons...Donnel isn't one of them...

Edit: Also, just because I happen to love it doesn't mean that its the best either mind you. And thats not gonna stop me from using him anyways.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Formerly Colm

[TheSilentChloey]

uhhh...for your information, I happen to be fucking bias and I love FeMU x Priam with a burning passion. And yet, you don't see me go off posting "OMG! Priam!MMorgan is the best, use it because this, this, and that, etc."

But I will openly admit that there are much 'better' options for pragmatic reasons...Donnel isn't one of them...

As far as I was made aware Donnel is a no go unless you want a manakete Nah or Taguel Yarne and hand them down underdog so they are a little harder to hit? I really don't see how underdog helps Morgan when he gets everything from Robin. *shrugs* I guess it is up to personal preference though in the end.

[Dwlr]

Stop repeating what I say.

Yes, people can and do have their own preferences for things to focus on. But this is an advice thread, and when someone asks "what's the best at X" telling them everyone's good at something, even if it's technically correct, isn't useful to them. If someone asks for the best, and you want to provide useful advice, you need to make a judgement call about what the most useful answer would be. If you need further clarification on what they want it to do, you ask.

As for the car example, MPG and top speed are both very important factors. But not all factors are equally important- a third car could have worse MPG and top speed than those first two, but come with a snazzy hood decal. Does that make it the best? Well, it does have the best hood decal, but in general, that's just not as important and people are less likely to care about it.

Stop repeating what I say.

Yes, people can and do have their own preferences for things to focus on. But this is an advice thread, and when someone asks "what's the best at X" telling them everyone's good at something, even if it's technically correct, isn't useful to them. If someone asks for the best, and you want to provide useful advice, you need to make a judgement call about what the most useful answer would be. If you need further clarification on what they want it to do, you ask.

As for the car example, MPG and top speed are both very important factors. But not all factors are equally important- a third car could have worse MPG and top speed than those first two, but come with a snazzy hood decal. Does that make it the best? Well, it does have the best hood decal, but in general, that's just not as important and people are less likely to care about it.

Stop arguing that your narrow scoped view of what is best is not everybody's idea of what is best and the topic would be dropped now wouldn't it? I mean you're wrong, so either you're incapable of understanding that if a single person in the 7 odd billion people think that something is the best then it is the best regardless what the other 7 odd billion people in the world think or you're just being obstinate intentionally.

The scope wasn't defined in the thread .'. your endgame built Morgan is not the only valid scope to be discussed in the thread. The most useful answer is to not be narrow-minded and fixate on a single particular aspect like you have, but to provide a variety of options and an explanation why somebody might consider any of those options the best which is what I provided.

Less likely keywords there. People still buy them for whatever reason so yes for the people who buy them purely for aesthetics then the 'impractical' car is the best. You apparently fail to realize that something being poor, good, best, worst isn't an objective quality it's a subjective one a purely subjective one regardless how many people share a like view on the matter.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Stop arguing that your narrow scoped view of what is best is not everybody's idea of what is best and the topic would be dropped now wouldn't it? I mean you're wrong, so either you're incapable of understanding that if a single person in the 7 odd billion people think that something is the best then it is the best regardless what the other 7 odd billion people in the world think or you're just being obstinate intentionally.

The scope wasn't defined in the thread .'. your endgame built Morgan is not the only valid scope to be discussed in the thread. The most useful answer is to not be narrow-minded and fixate on a single particular aspect like you have, but to provide a variety of options and an explanation why somebody might consider any of those options the best which is what I provided.

Less likely keywords there. People still buy them for whatever reason so yes for the people who buy them purely for aesthetics then the 'impractical' car is the best. You apparently fail to realize that something being poor, good, best, worst isn't an objective quality it's a subjective one a purely subjective one regardless how many people share a like view on the matter.

Just for the sake of arguments, have you ever played Lunatic/Lunatic+ mode or even Apotheosis?

Edited January 7, 2016 by Formerly Colm

[XSRankQueenX]

Well, I came back to a lot, I appreciate the help everyone :D

[Loki Laufeyson]

Another thing, How do you guys feel about the ChromxMaribelle pairing?

For story reasons, i like it a lot. Gameplay, its not that amazing unless you want a more support viable Lucina. Maribelle gives Troubadour branch (on top of Peg) which has some pretty wiggy skills. Demoiselle is neato and Dual Support + is hella cool. Passing one of those down to Lucina (so she doesnt have sit in those classes herself) is not a bad idea if you want a nice support bot who can hit stuff too. Maribelle's defense mod is arse though. Maribelle herself is a bit hard to deal with on nogrind runs.

As for Chrom/feMU, i dont like it. The gameplay perspective, its an excellent pairing, but i hate the supports and my MUs just dont wanna bang him.

Yeah the others all said go for who you want on a first run.

[Dwlr]

Just for the sake of arguments, have you ever played Lunatic/Lunatic+ mode or even Apotheosis?

Lol there it is, the "You don't conform to my way of thinking you so you can't possibly have done X" argument. 1) Yes to both 2) Even if I hadn't that doesn't change that something being 'good' is a subjective quality not an objective one and thus would have no bearing on absolutely anything, it does however prove immaturity on your part trying to use it in an attempt to assert some measure of superiority, so kudos for that one.

[solrocknroll]

I'm not really getting why people with Apotheosis built Morgans are trying to offer advice to someone playing on Normal. If they're playing the game for the first time, it's probably not going to be an optimization run.

As such, I would actually recommend Donnel/Chrom as Morgan's father. They have special skills that could easily prove helpful on an easier difficulty. Why would TC go through the trouble of making Ricken!Laurent!Morgan on their first run? In fact, I'd recommend marrying the character you like best. I would marry a certain character every run if I could, but that character is spoilers.

Addressing the topic title: Yes, Gerome and Laurent are probably the best fathers. But if you aren't doing Apotheosis, then the advantages they provide end up being pretty useless.

[Dwlr]

I'm not really getting why people with Apotheosis built Morgans are trying to offer advice to someone playing on Normal. If they're playing the game for the first time, it's probably not going to be an optimization run.

As such, I would actually recommend Donnel/Chrom as Morgan's father. They have special skills that could easily prove helpful on an easier difficulty. Why would TC go through the trouble of making Ricken!Laurent!Morgan on their first run? In fact, I'd recommend marrying the character you like best. I would marry a certain character every run if I could, but that character is spoilers.

Addressing the topic title: Yes, Gerome and Laurent are probably the best fathers. But if you aren't doing Apotheosis, then the advantages they provide end up being pretty useless.

Finally somebody with some sense, a gold star to you sir.

[Shadow Mir]

I'm not really getting why people with Apotheosis built Morgans are trying to offer advice to someone playing on Normal. If they're playing the game for the first time, it's probably not going to be an optimization run.

As such, I would actually recommend Donnel/Chrom as Morgan's father. They have special skills that could easily prove helpful on an easier difficulty. Why would TC go through the trouble of making Ricken!Laurent!Morgan on their first run? In fact, I'd recommend marrying the character you like best. I would marry a certain character every run if I could, but that character is spoilers.

Addressing the topic title: Yes, Gerome and Laurent are probably the best fathers. But if you aren't doing Apotheosis, then the advantages they provide end up being pretty useless.

If optimization isn't a concern, I'd agree with Chrom (albeit for different reasons), but not so much on Donnel - I'd say Stahl would be a better father candidate.

[solrocknroll]

If optimization isn't a concern, I'd agree with Chrom (albeit for different reasons), but not so much on Donnel - I'd say Stahl would be a better father candidate.

I was mainly going for unique things. Yarne is also on that list.

If you want stuff you can't get otherwise:

Chrom/Brady/Inigo - Rightful King

Donnel - Villager/Aptitude/Underdog

Yarne - Taguel

Of course, Male Morgan cannot be a Manakete, which is sad.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Miss Kira

[Zerosabers]

The op asked for the best Morgan so yea they're going for optimization. Either way Donnel!Morgan wastes Donnel's Galeforce and gives terrible mods to Morgan. Donnel has +1 str and def along with a pointless +3 luk. Every other stat has -1.

The growth rates from aptitude don't even help that much. Since Morgan gains exp at such a fast rate and starts with good bases.

[Dwlr]

The op asked for the best Morgan so yea they're going for optimization. Either way Donnel!Morgan wastes Donnel's Galeforce and gives terrible mods to Morgan. Donnel has +1 str and def along with a pointless +3 luk. Every other stat has -1.

The growth rates from aptitude don't even help that much. Since Morgan gains exp at such a fast rate and starts with good bases.

"Best" still != endgame optimization.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Dwlr

[Shadow Mir]

I was mainly going for unique things. Yarne is also on that list.

If you want stuff you can't get otherwise:

Chrom/Brady/Inigo - Rightful King

Donnel - Villager/Aptitude/Underdog

Yarne - Taguel

Of course, Male Morgan cannot be a Manakete, which is sad.

If I was looking at from a maingame/practicality standpoint, pretty much all of those except Chrom would be out.

The op asked for the best Morgan so yea they're going for optimization. Either way Donnel!Morgan wastes Donnel's Galeforce and gives terrible mods to Morgan. Donnel has +1 str and def along with a pointless +3 luk. Every other stat has -1.

The growth rates from aptitude don't even help that much. Since Morgan gains exp at such a fast rate and starts with good bases.

The problem is that the OP didn't state what exactly they were optimizing for, nor did they mention Robin's asset/flaw...

Edited January 9, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Zerosabers]

"Best" still != endgame optimization.

Donnel is terrible in game too. You have to either baby him up to use him or stick him in the back as pair up foder until S suppprt. The first one isn't optimal since it requires mass resources dropped into a below average unit. The second one deprives Robin of an actual support unit and gives morgan terrible bases.

[Dwlr]

Donnel is terrible in game too. You have to either baby him up to use him or stick him in the back as pair up foder until S suppprt. The first one isn't optimal since it requires mass resources dropped into a below average unit. The second one deprives Robin of an actual support unit and gives morgan terrible bases.

Donnel is fine in-game depending on the RNG. Even if you're playing Lunatic or Lunatic+ he's not that hard to get 3-4 levels during his stage surrounding the archers using the on-hit exp and ofcourse letting him get the final shot there too. Pair him with a weaponless Virion or the like to maximize the gain with Aptitude after his level a 75 Str, 65 Skl, 70 Spd, and 65 Def growth rates can be very kind to him and with Aptitude boost all his growth rates a little feeding early on translates into higher overall stats for Morgan and by that time Donnel can be out of his Villager class getting better growth and a boost to his stats. Pretty reliable on the RNG front as well vs some other characters that can get screwed over by RNG, Kellam for instance can be rather hard to use if he doesn't get Spd in his Knight class and at 45 he is quite reasonable that he can be difficult to fully integrate and becomes much more of a chore than baby-sitting Donnel for a few starting levels.

[Shadow Mir]

Donnel is fine in-game depending on the RNG. Even if you're playing Lunatic or Lunatic+ he's not that hard to get 3-4 levels during his stage surrounding the archers using the on-hit exp and ofcourse letting him get the final shot there too. Pair him with a weaponless Virion or the like to maximize the gain with Aptitude after his level a 75 Str, 65 Skl, 70 Spd, and 65 Def growth rates can be very kind to him and with Aptitude boost all his growth rates a little feeding early on translates into higher overall stats for Morgan and by that time Donnel can be out of his Villager class getting better growth and a boost to his stats. Pretty reliable on the RNG front as well vs some other characters that can get screwed over by RNG, Kellam for instance can be rather hard to use if he doesn't get Spd in his Knight class and at 45 he is quite reasonable that he can be difficult to fully integrate and becomes much more of a chore than baby-sitting Donnel for a few starting levels.

Therein lies the problem - Donnel's bases suck, and resources spent trying to get him to catch up could be better spent on anyone else who wouldn't require me to bust my ass trying to make usable, ESPECIALLY the Second Seal he needs to function...

Edited January 9, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Shadow Mir]

Really?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Dwlr]

Therein lies the problem - Donnel's bases suck, and resources spent trying to get him to catch up could be better spent on anyone else who wouldn't require me to bust my ass trying to make usable, ESPECIALLY the Second Seal he needs to function...

Yeah there is a potential problem sure, but there is a potential benefit as well and to somebody that potential benefit outweighs what other people bring to the table and .'. he should be mentioned as nobody else can bring that particular benefit to the table and that's why when talking about what's "best" the unique options all have to be mentioned to give full coverage, you never know what any particular person is going to value the most so when the scope was undefined like here you shotgun all the options instead of limiting yourself to a single viewpoint neglecting any of the options anybody might consider the "best" i.e. every father is the "best", but when everything is said and done there's really no need to mention those father that offer X hair color or their specific modifiers since those are easily looked up for anybody who values those things above all else.

I said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm merely defending Donnel for what he brings that is unique to cover all the bases in a thread that never included the scope of what they're looking for. I personally loathe Donnel. My personal vote is for Chrom, but later in the thread it was mentioned by the topic starter that he/she/it didn't like that pairing so it's pretty pointless to tout all the reasons why I'd recommend Chrom. Outside of that I'd say a Spd oriented Yarne, 24 attacks or 12 at 3 range in a turn vs Anna is always fun IMO at least.

[eclipse]

Lol there it is, the "You don't conform to my way of thinking you so you can't possibly have done X" argument. 1) Yes to both 2) Even if I hadn't that doesn't change that something being 'good' is a subjective quality not an objective one and thus would have no bearing on absolutely anything, it does however prove immaturity on your part trying to use it in an attempt to assert some measure of superiority, so kudos for that one.

Sheesh, chill.

I'm currently on Lunatic. Training Donnel on that mode is a pain in the neck, full stop. Hell, training most of the underleveled units on Lunatic is a pain in the neck.

There was also a bit of an altercation regarding being really passive-aggressive in arguments. I'd rather post as a regular user in here, and not a mod.

I'm not really getting why people with Apotheosis built Morgans are trying to offer advice to someone playing on Normal. If they're playing the game for the first time, it's probably not going to be an optimization run.

As such, I would actually recommend Donnel/Chrom as Morgan's father. They have special skills that could easily prove helpful on an easier difficulty. Why would TC go through the trouble of making Ricken!Laurent!Morgan on their first run? In fact, I'd recommend marrying the character you like best. I would marry a certain character every run if I could, but that character is spoilers.

Addressing the topic title: Yes, Gerome and Laurent are probably the best fathers. But if you aren't doing Apotheosis, then the advantages they provide end up being pretty useless.

Why not someone like Stahl, who doesn't need babying? Or Vaike, because of his personality and pecs? Or even Virion, because he's the only bow guy for a while?

Aptitude won't make Normal signifincantly easier, due to the sheer glut of experience available. Once your stats hit a certain point, it becomes irrelevant - as I'm finding out by trying out a Chrom solo (thanks to user Sodium Hydroxide). Underdog amuses me, but I doubt a beginner will constantly reclass into unpromoted units just to take advantage of it.

The op asked for the best Morgan so yea they're going for optimization. Either way Donnel!Morgan wastes Donnel's Galeforce and gives terrible mods to Morgan. Donnel has +1 str and def along with a pointless +3 luk. Every other stat has -1.

The growth rates from aptitude don't even help that much. Since Morgan gains exp at such a fast rate and starts with good bases.

Why not best explanation for why Morgan has amnesia, or best hair color?

Therein lies the problem - Donnel's bases suck, and resources spent trying to get him to catch up could be better spent on anyone else who wouldn't require me to bust my ass trying to make usable, ESPECIALLY the Second Seal he needs to function...

Donnel got a double-whammy - a class whose bases are atrocious, and terrible bases. That's why his stats look so awful. In other words, if he wants to be decent, he needs to be coddled. Most of my army doesn't, so unless I have nothing better to do with my time, I'm going to prioritize someone else.

[Dwlr]

I'm currently on Lunatic. Training Donnel on that mode is a pain in the neck, full stop. Hell, training most of the underleveled units on Lunatic is a pain in the neck.

Aptitude won't make Normal signifincantly easier

Donnel got a double-whammy - a class whose bases are atrocious, and terrible bases. That's why his stats look so awful. In other words, if he wants to be decent, he needs to be coddled.

1) Chrom x Fem avi can solo the entire game easily in Lunatic, but again I refer to the first page wherein the thread creator hates that pairing. 2) The thread creator isn't on Lunatic so Lunatic arguments are entirely moot. 3) Doesn't have to be 'significantly' easier if it makes it easier at all then it can be somebody's definition of 'best' which I again say that something being the 'best' is a subjective quality not an objective one and a single person in the 7 odd billion people in the world says something is the 'best' then it is indeed the 'best' regardless if any one else in the 7 odd billion people agrees with them or not. 4) I've only ever played the game in Lunatic or Lunatic+ from day one, but I never had any problems getting Donnel up in Lunatic.

-

Since nobody brought it up, but are wanting to argue against Donnel constantly I will, the poster never said if they were allowing grinding or not, if they're grinding Donnel then Donnel doesn't bring anything to the table to speak of save Underdog.

[Shadow Mir]

Yeah there is a potential problem sure, but there is a potential benefit as well and to somebody that potential benefit outweighs what other people bring to the table and .'. he should be mentioned as nobody else can bring that particular benefit to the table and that's why when talking about what's "best" the unique options all have to be mentioned to give full coverage, you never know what any particular person is going to value the most so when the scope was undefined like here you shotgun all the options instead of limiting yourself to a single viewpoint neglecting any of the options anybody might consider the "best" i.e. every father is the "best", but when everything is said and done there's really no need to mention those father that offer X hair color or their specific modifiers since those are easily looked up for anybody who values those things above all else.

I said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm merely defending Donnel for what he brings that is unique to cover all the bases in a thread that never included the scope of what they're looking for. I personally loathe Donnel. My personal vote is for Chrom, but later in the thread it was mentioned by the topic starter that he/she/it didn't like that pairing so it's pretty pointless to tout all the reasons why I'd recommend Chrom. Outside of that I'd say a Spd oriented Yarne, 24 attacks or 12 at 3 range in a turn vs Anna is always fun IMO at least.

Mentioning unique options is fine and dandy, but imo they're only really worth considering if they're either useful or have enough merit to outweigh their associated problems. Other than Chrom, most of the husbands that would offer something unique have issues that count against their merits as husband material (3 of them are child units, 2 of which need to be fathered by Chrom to have something unique going for them, and the other one is Yarne, who gives Morgan the irredeemable garbage that is Taguel, with all the downsides that entails). For the record, I don't like Chrom/Robin - I'm more-or-less neutral to it.

Donnel got a double-whammy - a class whose bases are atrocious, and terrible bases. That's why his stats look so awful. In other words, if he wants to be decent, he needs to be coddled. Most of my army doesn't, so unless I have nothing better to do with my time, I'm going to prioritize someone else.

Pretty much.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Levant Colthearts