Pokemon Sun and Moon General Discussion: Official Site updated to include every new 'mon

[Moblin Major General]

Should have just brought back "dancing for no reason" guys.

Otherwise known as "We ran out of ideas."

[Magical Glace]

Otherwise known as "We ran out of ideas."

"We're trying to fit as many people on the bridge as possible, so you can't get on."

Am I not a person??!

Yeah, I found the lampshade of the "dancing" roadblock pretty amusing, since they clearly know they're there just to prevent you from going where you aren't supposed to.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Not really feeling any of the starter except for Rowlett at the moment. Even Rowlett is kinda eh

Rowlett typing is kinda cool because Ghost hate tyranitar while Grass Beat Tyranitar. However, the everything else is kinda eh since it relies on how much Grass moves/Ghost moves/Good Stats it gets. The biggest threat to Rowlett is really going to be Tornadus Therian regardless, because Tornadus Therian completely destroys everything Rowlett wants to do: Assault Vest + lack of weakness to switch in everytime + U-Turn to break through shackles. Otherwise it can either become a Ghost move spammer who have Grass Type who usually have amazing offensive power to cover how weak Ghost types are or a Trapper with Will-o-wisp.

Litten main issue basically comes from the fact that whatever it wants to do, Weavile and Bisharp will do it better. Darkest Lariat is a move with unaware side effect, but because defense boost is extremely rare, the real use of this is just to break intimidate, but Bisharp gets +1 from Intimidate, this guy get +0

As for Weavile, its basically a competition of Weavile being able to beat Landorus T, Hippowdon, Garchomp, vs Litten being able to check Scizor, Metagross, and Heracross but losing against stuff that Weavile beats

Honestly comparing Weavile against Litten kinda makes you realize how Fire is actually outclassed by Ice

Popplio is not going to be Azumarril level threat unless it have broken ability/broken stats, but for what it worth the fact that it uses Scald alone removes most of stuff that used to check Azumarrill into inconsistent Area. Ice Beam could deal with Amoongus and Tangrowth outside AV variants. Scald Burns Scizor and Metagross. Volcanion laugh in your face regardless. Venusaur counters you no matter what.

But lets be real for a second here. This is the kind of shitty pokemon that Water type makes work:

100 HP

80 DEF

60 SpA

80 SpD

50 Spe

I mean yeah Azumarrill have Sap Sipper and quite a godly movepool to become a defensive utility pokemon, but it really shows you how unbalanced Water type is when a pokemon with 370 Stats Spread is viable in OU

Edited October 27, 2016 by JSND

[Konnor97]

You do know that Alolan Raichu is Psychic, right?

See my edit.

So, I didn't expect the final evolution of the starters.

Especially not Decidueye's Grass/Ghost typing. Spirit Shackle seems like a good move, causing damage while trapping foes. It may be a little awkward to use considering that the opponent you want to trap can just switch before the move hits. Still seems good though.

Incineroar is a dumb name and he shall be known as Tigreatest instead. Fire/Dark as about half of people suggested, which is a neat type. It seems to have a good personality. Darkest Lariat is a cool name, but the animation kinda looks like it is in its t-pose and spinning forward. Renamed and retyped Chip Away. Meh.

Primarina is a pretty name, and so is that Water/Fairy typing. Looks cute. The same can't be said for Sparkling Aria. It seems like a niche Guts/Flame Orb check. Maybe if it does double damage against burned foes like with Smelling Salts and Wake-Up Slap it can be sorta useful with Scald. Maybe.

Tapu Lele is cute, and it has Psychic Surge for Psychic Terrain which either removes priority from moves or stops priority moves in general, I don't remember.

Tapu Bulu is Grass/Fairy which is a bit unexpected coming from Ula'ula island (is the first time we've officially seen this island's name?) and the home of Baile style Oricorio (assumingly). There were theories that the remaining Tapu were the same type as that island's Oricorio, but I guess not. Grassy Surge sets up Grassy Terrain which is not new. The effects seem nice enough though. Nice Horn Leech.

Tapu Fini is Water/Fairy which is unexpected yadda yadda repeating the previous part. Is the name Poni island actually new? Kinda lame it just gets Misty Surge and so Misty Terrain instead of a new water one, but whatever. She's cute.

The Tapus' Z-Move is interesting. Apparently it's pretty much Super Duper Fang, shaving off 75% of a foe's HP. Disappointing that the body is always yellow.

Cosmog is adorable. Psychic typing. We knew that it was Lillie's pokemon from those articles like Polygon's where they spoiled it. Totally just a normal pokemon and not special in anyway.

Good ol' Garfielf. Fur Coat is an interesting ability. Hopefully it has better defense and reliable recovery *crosses fingers for Slack Off* to be able to use it, or it will just keep Technician for rad Bites.

New league seems hype.

Battle Tree, aka PWTree(?), seems super hype. Better post game content here hopefully than XY. Going by the Japanese trailer you fight normal trainers and then eventually special trainers, like a remixed Battle Tower or the Orre Colosseum from XD. New model for Cynthia is neat, but Wally's model is the same I think. Older Red and Blue is super hype. Special note how in the trailer Blue addresses you as a fellow Champ. This is post Alolan league then?

Looking at moves in the Battle Tree in the Japanese trailer, Vikavolt learns either Razor Wind or Air Cutter (don't know which that animation is), Drampa learns Flamethrower(?), and Lurantis learns Solarbeam along with its Solar Blade.

Can safely I did not expect most stuff from this trailer. Very nice trailer.

And now for my favorite part.

[spoiler=Stats]Assuming neutral natures and no EVs.

Alolan Raticate has higher HP than normal Raticate. Normal Raticate reaches 178 HP at level 70 with 31 IVs. Alolan Raticate has 193. This puts its base HP anywhere from 66 with 30 IVs (65 is 192 and 66 with 31 is 194) to 81 with 0 IVs. I can narrow it down further however, as in the Japanese trailer it was seen at level 41 with 121 HP. That range is base 70 with 31 IVs to base 86 with 0 IVs. We know it can't be 86 though, so the closer range of Alolan Raticate's base HP is from 70 to 81.

Zygarde 10% has 177 HP at level 70. This is much less than normal Zygarde who would have 252 at that level. I predict Zygarde 10% has 54 base HP, as that fits with the video, and that is half Zygarde 50%'s base HP value.

Alolan Exeggutor has 234 HP at level 70, which is what normal Exeggutor would have at that same level with 31 IVs. Alolan Exeggutor likely has the same base HP as normal Exeggutor, so 95.

It's hard to read Incineroar's HP in the Japanese trailer, as I think it's been smudged a bit. It looks like 160 HP at level 50, which puts it anywhere from base 85 with 31 IVs to base 100 with 0 IVs.

Tapu Lele has 172 HP at level 60. Base HP is somewhere from base 70 with 31 IVs to base 85 with 0 IVs.

Tapu Bulu is the same HP wise. Judging on how it did 117 damage to a level 58 Tauros with STAB Wood Hammer (Wood Hammer does 1/3 of damage dealt as knockback, and Tapu Bulu took 39 damage), Tapu Bulu has somewhere from 120 to 140 Attack (damage range is a bit of an annoyance). I don't want to go through all of the process of shifting between Tauros' Defense and HP IVs and Tapu Bulu's Attack IVs, so I'm just gonna say it probably has around 130 Attack, give or take 10 points.

Tapu Fini is the same as the others HP wise. Technically Tapu Fini has at least 70 Special Attack since it oneshot that level 57 Magmar with STAB Hydro Pump, so it is hard to say how much power it has. Probably at least 100 Special Attack.

Level 50 Mudsdale had 178 HP. Base 103 HP with 31 IVs to base 118 with 0 IVs. Doesn't have as much HP as I thought it would.

Alolan Raichu's HP was 126 at level 50. That puts it from base 51 with 31 IVs to base 66 with 0 IVs.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Konnor97

[Anacybele]

Oh yeah, Decidueye having the Ghost type is pretty interesting. How do you guys pronounce that anyway? It's kind of an awkward word. But I say "Dihs-SID-joo-eye."

Primarina's signature move does feel pointless... But maybe you could use it on an ally Pokemon to remove its burn in double or triple battles?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Real reason they didn't make Water Terrain is because even gamefreak knows better than potentially introducing Kyogre Episode 2 - Origin Boogaloo

[Magical Glace]

Oh yeah, Decidueye having the Ghost type is pretty interesting. How do you guys pronounce that anyway? It's kind of an awkward word. But I say "Dihs-SID-joo-eye."

Primarina's signature move does feel pointless... But maybe you could use it on an ally Pokemon to remove its burn in double or triple battles?

It's derived from deciduous, so I would assume it's pronounced that way.

I had trouble remembering the name for a bit though...

[Konnor97]

Oh yeah, Decidueye having the Ghost type is pretty interesting. How do you guys pronounce that anyway? It's kind of an awkward word. But I say "Dihs-SID-joo-eye."

Primarina's signature move does feel pointless... But maybe you could use it on an ally Pokemon to remove its burn in double or triple battles?

I think that's about how it would be pronounced. Like Deciduous but with eye instead of ous.

[Water Mage]

I was just watching the video again, and when Primarina used Sparkling Aria, you could hear the super-effective sound, meaning it's a damaging move.

It's probably a Water/Burn version of Wake-Up Slap and Smelling Salts.

[Espinosa]

Honestly, it's the most useless effect of a starter special by far.

[Ether]

Showing Azumarill's base stats and saying how water makes even such a low stat pokemon good is kind of disingenuous, since it has a good movepool and Huge Power, which are big factors to it being usable. If Azu only had Sap sipper and Thick fat, it would be trash.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I burn you with Scald, now i can remove it with my special move

10/10

"Showing Azumarill's base stats and saying how water makes even such a low stat pokemon good is kind of disingenuous, since it has a good movepool and Huge Power, which are big factors to it being usable. If Azu only had Sap sipper and Thick fat, it would be trash."

The point in theres is really its hard for Prima to be actually bad when even something as shitty as Special Attacking Defensive Azumarill manage to be viable in OU just because it have something that other Water type did not have. Admitably that was before i saw the new Tapu have Water/Fairy typing and Toxic + Scald Burn Immunity

Edited October 27, 2016 by JSND

[Konnor97]

The worst part of pairing this up with Scald is that you're using two water type moves. One that will be used a lot (Scald) and one that will be used only if the first activates it's 30% burn chance/facing a guts mon (Sparkling Aria).

[Moblin Major General]

Honestly, it's the most useless effect of a starter special by far.

I guarantee it's stronger than the ones in Gen VI. Water Shuriken is only 50 BP at minimum 2 hits, Spiked Shield is a more useful Protect (against moves it usually can tank), and Mystical Fire can lower Sp. Atk, which isn't useful given one of the types this works against is super effective against Delphox.

[The DanMan]

Blast from the past: remember when we thought the starters' final evos would be Grass/Ground, pure Fire, and Water/Fighting due to those typings showing up in the website's source code?

[Ether]

Except that Special attacking defensive Azumarill isn't viable in OU, unless things have flipped massively in a very short time. Even tanky Azu still runs Huge power max attack with an assault vest. Prima could very well be a good, OU viable pokemon, because Water/Fairy is a very good typing, if it has good stats it should be okay. But any Azu set in OU without huge power is usually a gimmick at best.

[Water Mage]

To be fair, Primarina still has potential because of it's typing, because it can probably learn Scald, Ice Beam and Moonblast and the little we saw of Popplio's stats, it implies that Primarina will focus mostly on Sp.Atk and Sp.Def.

If we give it an Assault Vest, it could probably be an effective tank.

I do see it as mostly UU Pokemon, however.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Water Mage

[Emeraldfox]

Real reason they didn't make Water Terrain is because even gamefreak knows better than potentially introducing Kyogre Episode 2 - Origin Boogaloo

To be fair it would be hard to walk on water.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Defensive Azumarril have been used a bit in PS ladders and tours. Its actualy pretty good because it beats a lot of relevant threat through its typing(funny enough this list includes a lot of defensive mon) + Scald being Scald.

In a Stall vs Stall match up, you can click rest and stall potentiall 3 PP from your opponent with it, which gave you a big advantage in PP stalling even without using Amoongus. Its basically one of those set that is only used in the most hardcore Stall team

The 1287 Turns battle actually had it used

Edited October 27, 2016 by JSND

[Ether]

I mean, of course it can be used and find success as a utility wall, it has the stats and typing for it. Low speed and bad offenses don't mean much when you're mostly pure tank, but you can take lower tier pokemon into OU and succeed with them if you're a strong battler and team creator, it doesn't make those pokemon OU material. Azumarill is OU because of it's offensive presence, it's bulk is an asset to be certain, but it's not the reason why Azu is OU.

[Water Mage]

Defensive Azumarril have been used a bit in PS ladders and tours. Its actualy pretty good because it beats a lot of relevant threat through its typing(funny enough this list includes a lot of defensive mon) + Scald being Scald.

In a Stall vs Stall match up, you can click rest and stall potentiall 3 PP from your opponent with it, which gave you a big advantage in PP stalling even without using Amoongus. Its basically one of those set that is only used in the most hardcore Stall team

The 1287 Turns battle actually had it used

Speaking of Amoongus, I wonder how much an ability that automatically activated Grassy Terrain would benefit it. It's a free Leftovers after all.

[C. Turtle]

I have conflicting feelings about this reveal. On one hand, I really like Decidueye's design, and Rowlet's line is still my favourite out of the starters, but that type change in for the final evolution causes problems with my team planning. I generally don't like repeating types on my team, and Ghost-type was already being filled by mister demon sandcastle. I'll probably end up just using both anyway, but it's going to irk me.

Aside from that, the Battle Tree looks interesting, I might actually try it instead of ignoring it like I did the Maison. I wonder what other returning trainers we'll see. I'm surprised I haven't seen more "Sinnoh confirmed" stuff after Cynthia showed up.

[Ether]

I suppose that purely defensive Azu might be better in pure stall, but the mere though of Stall v Stall or a battle lasting over 1000 turns makes me cringe. Take it away.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Ether

[UNLEASH IT]

Water/Fairy is a GOAT typing

The tapu Z-move animation is pretty cool, but the fact that trainer's expression never changes throughout makes it kinda scary.

Edited October 27, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[Dai]

I'm surprised I haven't seen more "Sinnoh confirmed" stuff after Cynthia showed up.

Courtesy of myself from the Sinnoh Remake thread:

I am going to concede that Cynthia's appearance in today's trailer may be yet another sign that a Sinnoh remake is incoming.

...Also, she better Mega Evolve that Garchomp for shits and giggles.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Dai