Kirby's Return to Mafia Land - Game Over

[Refa]

really

[Refa]

Bluedoom, who did you Bodyguard?

[Bluedoom]

Guess who, refa :3

[Bluedoom]

Gimme some time to post my reads, I spent 4+ hours reading this game and tbh its aggravating to be subbed into a slot that's under fire and did nothing for three day phases.

[Refa]

Oh, makes sense. Anyways, put an extra vote on Randa because I'm frustrated that we weren't able to lynch him yesterday and didn't want the same thing to happen today.

##Vote: Randa

[Sunwoo]

I'm just dropping in to say that I'm going to bed within the next hour and a half, and then I won't be back home until sometime around 6 pm my time because tomorrow is a busy day for me. If nothing that requires my attention happens while I'm still awake, you guys don't get to hear from me until about 18 hours later.

[Bluedoom]

Elieson needs to make sense btw.

His reasoning for voting my playerslot is terrible. Clarinets claimed being a self-silencer, Elieson has even QUOTED A POST about Cam assuming that Izu was an empowerer who empowered a guy who self kidnaps

and somehow he thinks that cam saw my playerslot silence Clarinets because ?????

[Bluedoom]

Like that is the most bullshit fuck up I've ever seen and doesn't look god in my eyes.

[CT075]

i am literally sleeping right after i post this but marth why were you not on our claimed cop last night?

(don't want to throw my vote around when i'm this jetlagged)

[Bluedoom]

First, I'll get my townreads out of the way:

Refa is a hard townread because he has shown no restrain in the way he presents his reads, and isn't afraid of changing his opinion of his reads at any point in time. I do not even understand the past cases on Refa: I've been reading kirsche's ISO multiple times and STILL DON'T GET IT! Mitsuki's "Oh why is Refa still alive" is just lame. Since Mancer became obvtown with the RB that's not a bad kill and N1 kills were power roles so those are good for scum too. In any case, this has already been stated.

Cam is also a hard townread because if he was scum he wouldn't bother putting effort into the game. Like I've been scum with cam before and he REALLY HAS A LOT OF TROUBLE trying to fake reads as scum. He even sucks at having a conviction in anything.

Mitsuki is not as hard of a townread as the two above because of the way she initially presented cases on people- like the one on Boron or Refa, or the parts of her kirsche case like "I just don't like kirsche's tone and feel its scummy". That isn't even something he can defend to you know.

But when people pressured her to explain her reads, she has explained them in more detail and tbh I get the logic behind her scumreads .Tbh it feels more like people just try to shut her up when she tries to initiate discussion

Now, my issues with the rest of the players:

So I feel like Elieson and Boron are guilty of messed up priorities.

Both of them were scumreading Clarinets last phase, and IMO, if you're town, and you're getting into *YLO soon, the thing that should be striking you is to take out any scum who will cause an issue at this stage compared to say, passive scum. That's what I don't get. If you're scumreading clarinets, who would be SCUM COP, why would you bring the SCUM COP TO *YLO? Why would you lynch the SCUM BODYGUARD OR SCUM EMPOWERER over the SCUM COP?

(This is to Boron)Hell Izu was like, inactive, so what makes him a BETTER LYNCH, if you're saying my slot is scum, than an active player who can potentially wreck the game for you in *YLO?

Now Boron makes more sense than whatever Elieson's doing right now, yeah, but she also didn't actually have a variety of reads until Mitsuki pressured her to explain her reads (at least this is what I understand after scrolling over these ISOs OVER AND OVER.) So it feels like she just stuck with the Izhuark tunnel till sometime during mid D4.

Randa feels like he played the classic scum D1 play with his vote. Like, his mancer case is based on pointless semantics and replacing words like 'logical' with 'good.' He even discredited Mancer's read on Blitz but then said Mancer had a stronger case on Blitz than Izhuark but voted Izhuark to blend in with the town which is bad. Then, his vote on Ms Bunch is EVEN WORSE because he goes all "What you said looks like what you'd say to a scumbuddy. It maybe be mis speaking or a scumslip but I'm inclined to think its the latter" which reads to me as "What you're doing can be interpreted either way but I'm going to see this as a scummy action and vote you because I need to look like I have a conviction behind my read!"

Then he didn't really bother doing any sort of scum hunting after D1 and well as you all know, his D4 has been um, terrible. Like, wtf is that SK logic with a flipped SK? And wtf is that Cam vote anyway?

I'll get to kirsche in the next post.

[Bluedoom]

I wasn't on Clarinets because no matter how many times I looked through his ISO, I never understood any of his cases and the Refa lynch suggestion was wtf. I figured that there'd be noise around him today and his cop scan wouldn't be useful because:

a) We don't know his sanity

and

b) It'd be coming around at *YLO.

So I figured if the mafia were SO SHIT SCARED about Clarinets, let them kill him anyway, if he's town. People didn't see him in the clear anyway, so that's one less headache when it comes to scum hunting.

[Bluedoom]

Kirsche:

Trying to reread a bit but I find most stuff irrelevant.

I think Kirsche's role assignment is scummy, since giving a good role to a good player is basically giving all the reasons for scum to shoot them. I don't agree with Refa when he says that Kirsche wouldn't have given him a tracker as scum, because if Kirsche is scum, he has no reason to worry about giving Blitz the tracker. He's ascetic and he can't be tracked.

Sure, that also means Kirsche didn't give Blitz the role to kill him but my point is that I don't see town giving the good players the good roles. A lot of people talked about why that would be a bad decision so I'm sure he didn't miss it. And it's just logical either way.

It's worth mentioning that Cam wasn't such a strong townread of mine until deadline. My read on him is all gut but going from what I know he'd be playing really differently as scum, so I'm quite certain about it.

[spoiler=Quotes are literally awful]

Preach it. I'd be honestly surprised if this spoiler even works correctly.

I gave Blitz tracker because I wasn't very confident in anyone being town, had the best feeling about Blitz, and was worried about who it'd be given to if I didn't give it away. Blitz was also fairly forgettable so I thought scum might be less inclined to target him but at the same time competent enough so that the bodyguard wouldn't abandon him without thinking.

Honestly feels like too fishy a coincidence to me, because if Blitz is forgettable, then he's the perfect kill because there won't even be associative reads. Also, what's the problem if tracker falls into scum hands? I haven't actually checked the order of role assignment yet till now(and I should because I guess that's relevant here) but if tracker is in scum hands, it doesn't really do anything other than make it hard for town to actually trust investigative role results(and if you're signing up for this setup, you kinda should be relying on your scumhunting skills more, you know.) Since you agree that Blitz is a competent player as a tracker, that just makes me feel like its a way of painting a target on a competent player.

Also, I'd really like it if you could paraphrase your Refa case to me. Like, throughout D4, you kept going on about how if Refa was scum, its game over, but you never pushed your Refa case further. I'm trying but all I see is some D1 stuff about Refa not playing to his town!meta? Really now.

The thing is though, that pushing for a no lynch D4 is p lame for scum when you could just coast off a mislynch D4, so I'm torn here.

[Bluedoom]

And yeah honestly if I was the bodyguard N1 I'd bodyguard the vig because that's just way too powerful a role to save compared to a comparison cop but HEY

we did get to lynch the SK through that so I guess its not all that bad?

[Refa]

lmao i thought mylo/lylo weren't announced

[Refa]

Pretty sure Prims accidentally made me confirmed town, I'm the best (because it'd be LYLO if I was scum).

[Refa]

Honestly, I'd never lynch SB if he wasn't copped so I GUESS it wasn't a horrible outcome (but it demotivated me).

Marth, pushing for NL would be a good move as scum because it'd get rid of one of the possible mislynches (assuming I'm town...wait, you don't even have to assume anymore). I agree w/it being a weird move to make as scum, but it's not really part of the reason that I'm feeling better about Kirsche.

Who do you think makes the most sense as scum out of your four scumreads? Like...I definitely agree w/the Elieson one (dunno why I gave him a pass for that), ditto on the Randa one, and I think you brought up good points on Boron/kirsche but not sure which one is stronger out of the two.

[Bluedoom]

"TOO BAD YOU WASTED YOUR NO LYNCH LOL"

I don't think that was an accident, lol.

[Refa]

Mechanics:

- LYLO and MYLO are not announced.

Well, he should have read the fucking rules then.

[Bluedoom]

I want to say Randa BUT his D4 BS makes me paranoid. Like, I even read the Realm of Mirrors D3 Freyjadour stuff after seeing w/e Cam was talking about and

MAN IF HE ACTUALLY PULLED THAT SHIT THIS GAME I'D BE SO MAD. I'M ALREADY MAD THAT I'M SUBBING INTO A SLOT THAT WAS ALMOST MODKILLED AND ITS MYLO.

[Bluedoom]

Marth, pushing for NL would be a good move as scum because it'd get rid of one of the possible mislynches (assuming I'm town...wait, you don't even have to assume anymore). I agree w/it being a weird move to make as scum, but it's not really part of the reason that I'm feeling better about Kirsche.

Bold: How and why is this good for scum?

[Refa]

It gets rid of one of town's mislynches. As in, town has one less lynch (yesterday was 6/3 and if we mislynched, it'd be 4/3 today and scum wouldn't have won; if we NL'd, then it'd be 5/3 today and scum would win upon a mislynch).

Yeah, that's the only thing that makes me doubt my Randa read TBH. Not sure if I should be voting him or Elieson at this point, but yeah I'll need to think about it. Probably wouldn't vote Boron or Kirsche today though because ugh like I agree they both have aspects to their play individually that makes me think "yeah das scummy" but then overall I have a hard time scumreading them.

[Bluedoom]

Oh, NOW I get it.

well I actually need responses before I get a clear idea of them. I don't necessarily think Elieson's scummier than Boron/Kirsche because he has a history of doing stupid things in games for no reason and he isn't great at reading the game too.

[Refa]

Fair enough. I should probably reread but like none of the scumkills have been elucidating in the slightest and it's pretty lame.

[Mitsuki]

But when people pressured her to explain her reads, she has explained them in more detail and tbh I get the logic behind her scumreads .Tbh it feels more like people just try to shut her up when she tries to initiate discussion

THANK YOU.

I've been feeling like that was the case for all of the game. Like people don't listen to me because it's me. It's good to know I'm not crazy.

Also guess who wasted her last shot on Clarinets. Wow, I'm terrible. I was going to target Randa but then he came across as too weird to me. "I'm town because I'm town" just looks like the kind of arguement that town would use to defend themselves. I know Randa can pull a lot of WIFOM but that is just too extereme and too ridiculous, and you don't even know that's a towntell if you haven't seen/done that before. And I think I'm the only person who ever defends herself like that, so yeah. I don't know though. Can we not vote anyone yet please?

Except if it's Kirsche. He's definitely scum for trying to NL when the good thing to do from his point of view was lynching Refa. And I just get the feeling that he's tried to discredit my arguements against him by saying that I wasn't answering what he was talking about, when I definitely was and well, he's not that dumb to not understand my posts. But whatever dudes, I'm obviously the biased one here so remember to forget about my cases and several points against him!!!

[Mitsuki]

I'm going to be so mad if the scumteam turns out to be Kirsche/Elieson/Boron because I could totally have called that D1 but I wasn't sure and I didn't and then I just kind of forgot about that uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

I think Elieson is townie. Boron slightly scummy (I agree with what Marth has said + PoE + I trust you, past!Mitsuki), Elieson slightly townie but I don't know who of him and Randa are the towniest. It's weird because Randa is both scummier and townier than Elieson and I'm conflicted there. I need to think about that but it'd be optimal for me not to lynch there today, and get more info on both of them. Oh well.

Everyone else is almost confirmed town to me and if you don't agree I don't know what to say about you.

Oh and Prims said we wasted our NL, which we only have one before universal loss. He didn't make Refa confirmed town, although I think he is based on how he didn't hammer Izhuark yesterday.

If you ever thought Izhuark was scum flaking, think again. I don't think he'd have been almost modkilled if he was trying to fake contribution while being lazy about it.