In which blah the Prussian blind reacts to FE Fates: Conquest

[Sunwoo]

I was just joking about how easily she forgave Corrin. But yeah, that's not pretty bright.

I figured it was a joke. But that aspect of her character just pissed me off so bad that there's no redemption for her in my eyes as a character after this.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I figured it was a joke. But that aspect of her character just pissed me off so bad that there's no redemption for her in my eyes as a character after this.

In all fairness, while Hinoka forgiving Corrin is shitty and unforgivable, her not really having a good relationship with Takumi and Sakura was probably intentional.

[Lanko]

In all fairness, while Hinoka forgiving Corrin is shitty and unforgivable, her not really having a good relationship with Takumi and Sakura was probably intentional.

Yea, I think their supports hint at this. They were all siblings, but except for Corrin, apparently everyone lived a happy normal life, seeing the routine of everyone day after day with Mikoto? You are all there, but there's nothing out of the ordinary apparently going on from the occasional Faceless raid.

She apparently is the same with Azura. I think she started thinking "wow, we are at war for real now, what if you die?" If sou see Hinoka/Kaze supports, Hinoka and Sakura communicate through letters. And despiting being a good spear fighter, she and Ryoma apparently never sparred before.

In a way, we could say she became a bit obsessed with what she couldn't have (Corrin) and unintentionally didn't pay much attention to those that were always there everyday and that she took for granted would always remain with her.

Maybe that's why they made Camilla hit on Hinoka on ch.24. Both elder sisters are obsessed with Corrin, and the other siblings are neglected (Takumi, Azura, Leo).

Camilla says the siblings came for her instead of Xander, but on Camilla/Xander support we see he knows pretty well what's going on.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Lanko

[Luankachu]

In all fairness, while Hinoka forgiving Corrin is shitty and unforgivable, her not really having a good relationship with Takumi and Sakura was probably intentional.

Fun fact: There's a bit of Gameplay and Story Integration in this: Hinoka doesn't have a fast support with either Takumi or Sakura.

I'm not sure how much the supports growths are indicative of their relationship in the story, though, given that Takumi has a fast support with Corrin, but doesn't with Hinata; the Awakening Trio don't have fast supports with each other and Hayato doesn't have fast support with Fuga.

But giving how Hinoka's support with Azura shows that she'd been neglecting them to learn how to fight and find Corrin, I'd say it was intentional. Specially considering how she isn't even willing to apologize to Takumi or Sakura (Her siblings with huge insecurity issues) for her behavior.

Hinoka is a pretty bad sister. I can honestly believe she forgot that Takumi and Sakura even existed in that chapter and/or that she was either intentionally or subconsciously holding back against Corrin given how obssessed she is with him.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Luankachu

[Sunwoo]

In all fairness, while Hinoka forgiving Corrin is shitty and unforgivable, her not really having a good relationship with Takumi and Sakura was probably intentional.

No, that's the point.

Hinoka, despite being billed as "the most caring in the army", is shown to not really give a fuck about Takumi and Sakura. From caring more about Kamui than their fates in Conquest route, to not having a fast support with them in their playable routes, it is just all too clear that Hinoka values Kamui over the rest of her family, but especially her other two younger siblings. And it is this degree of Kamui-centrism that is a deal breaker for me. But I didn't realize just how bad it could get until Conquest 24.

[saisymbolic]

The way that Hinoka neglects her other siblings and obsesses over Corrinmui, it's almost as if she were shoved into the royal family to serve as a reflection of another Corrinmui-obsessed older sister character.

I wonder...

[Truthblade]

The way that Hinoka neglects her other siblings and obsesses over Corrinmui, it's almost as if she were shoved into the royal family to serve as a reflection of another Corrinmui-obsessed older sister character.

I wonder...

Well they are foils to each other.

[Sunwoo]

Except that Camilla actually comes off as BETTER than Hinoka in regard to the "caring about other siblings" thing. In Birthright 23, she confronted the Hoshidans because she thought they kidnapped Elise. Camilla was coming to Elise's rescue. Of course, when she saw Kamui was there things got all Kamui-colored again, but for one glorious moment we saw Camilla caring about a sibling who was not Kamui and putting her ass into motion for THAT sibling, not Kamui.

Hinoka doesn't have that moment. She's still fawning over Kamui before she finds out that Sakura is alive, and nothing is ever said about Takumi's fate at all. And while Takumi is also guilty of not asking about Sakura until Leon tells him that she was captured, at least he reacted with anger over that. Hinoka just says "Sakura is alive?!" No question of how she's doing, what Nohr has or has not done to her, or anger for capturing her.

[saisymbolic]

Well they are foils to each other.

I know.

Except that Camilla actually comes off as BETTER than Hinoka in regard to the "caring about other siblings" thing. In Birthright 23, she confronted the Hoshidans because she thought they kidnapped Elise. Camilla was coming to Elise's rescue. Of course, when she saw Kamui was there things got all Kamui-colored again, but for one glorious moment we saw Camilla caring about a sibling who was not Kamui and putting her ass into motion for THAT sibling, not Kamui.

Hinoka doesn't have that moment. She's still fawning over Kamui before she finds out that Sakura is alive, and nothing is ever said about Takumi's fate at all. And while Takumi is also guilty of not asking about Sakura until Leon tells him that she was captured, at least he reacted with anger over that. Hinoka just says "Sakura is alive?!" No question of how she's doing, what Nohr has or has not done to her, or anger for capturing her.

This what I was attempting to get across.

Except I failed lol

[Time the Crestfallen]

No, that's the point.

Hinoka, despite being billed as "the most caring in the army", is shown to not really give a fuck about Takumi and Sakura. From caring more about Kamui than their fates in Conquest route, to not having a fast support with them in their playable routes, it is just all too clear that Hinoka values Kamui over the rest of her family, but especially her other two younger siblings. And it is this degree of Kamui-centrism that is a deal breaker for me. But I didn't realize just how bad it could get until Conquest 24.

I wouldn't say that she doesn't care about them. The fact that she expresses guilt over it in her support with Azura is an indicator of that and most of the Corrin obsession comes from the story moments (which probably don't need to be discussed any further). It feels more like the relationship is very strained rather than outright apathetic, which I consider realistic since not every familial relationship is all sunshine and bunnies. I actually find this contrast very interesting in this situation; you have the Nohr family who have every reason to distrust and hate each other yet are very tight and loving, and then you have Hoshido who had a comparatively normal upbringing and despite this have a rather strained relationship for a variety of reasons (Takumi projecting his low self-esteem onto the others, Hinoka being very distant ETC).

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I see what you are saying.

But, the way I see it along with how it seemed Fates was going to be, I really didn't see a way where there wouldn't be some kind of doubt in the choice (so as to be an incentive to buy the other path).

Well, I did say "barely". I'd think that shouldn't be enough to deter most people from buying the other route(s).

Hinoka doesn't have that moment. She's still fawning over Kamui before she finds out that Sakura is alive, and nothing is ever said about Takumi's fate at all. And while Takumi is also guilty of not asking about Sakura until Leon tells him that she was captured, at least he reacted with anger over that. Hinoka just says "Sakura is alive?!" No question of how she's doing, what Nohr has or has not done to her, or anger for capturing her.

I always thought her not asking about until told was her being resigned to her siblings being dead. Clearly, all Nohrians are ruthlessly evil and would offer no quarter to PoWs. Word of the massacre at Sakura's fort must have made it back by this point, which would only serve to drive that home. I do find it odd that she doesn't show any kind of anger in 24, though, especially since she gets that full cutscene intro that says a whole lot of what we already knew. As for lacking follow-up questions when told Sakura was alive, but captured, there's two easy explanations: she's in shock because, well, that's such a weird, non-Nohrian thing to do or because it's Corrin, she assumes Sakura is being treated well (the latter even being consistent with her Corrin obsession).

[blah the Prussian]

Honestly, while I feel that the story does need a lot of improvement, I really don't think making Takumi the token evil sibling on the Hoshido side is the solution at all. At the very least, with the way the game sets up the Hoshidan family right now, I'm not okay with the only Hoshido sibling who's smart enough to distrust you and not be friendly to you immediately be the only aggressive, morally gray one. Takumi's like the only one who doesn't need to be any more gray than he already is.

Also, Hinoka just sucks in Conquest 24. Worst big sister ever.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention this but the Corrin dick sucking brigade is losing a lot of members. Ryoma and Sakura are fired. Takumi wouldn't be the token evil sibling; the point would be that he's letting his anger get the better of him. He wouldn't fall like this if Corrin joined Hoshido.

[Sunwoo]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention this but the Corrin dick sucking brigade is losing a lot of members. Ryoma and Sakura are fired. Takumi wouldn't be the token evil sibling; the point would be that he's letting his anger get the better of him. He wouldn't fall like this if Corrin joined Hoshido.

Takumi doesn't really have reason to hate you if you join Hoshido anyway, and he does warm up to you by the time he's recruited on his own route and Revelations. Also, Hinoka is still sucking up to Kamui? Why not just spare her, kill the others, and tell her that they died attacking Kamui instead and it was self-defense, and make HER the unpopular puppet queen? Honestly, it makes a lot of sense.

[blah the Prussian]

Takumi doesn't really have reason to hate you if you join Hoshido anyway, and he does warm up to you by the time he's recruited on his own route and Revelations. Also, Hinoka is still sucking up to Kamui? Why not just spare her, kill the others, and tell her that they died attacking Kamui instead and it was self-defense, and make HER the unpopular puppet queen? Honestly, it makes a lot of sense.

I'd honestly just prefer Hinoka not be in the story tbh. She was so obviously unneeded and phoned in.

[NekoKnight]

This is essentially my qualm with Revelation to begin with. The third path defeated the entire purpose of having to make a choice. You get all the characters and a happy ending. The premise of Fates was that you would have to reject one family for the other. Just from that, it is already expected that the endings for either of these tales would be one that is bittersweet or, at the very worse, a downer.

I mentioned SMT because I love that series because it seems like, no matter what path you take, the consequences of making that choice always outweighs the pros. Even the neutral path. In a similar way, I thought the story of Fates would have you make a choice but it would never be implied which choice was the "right" one. You would be left with a feeling of accomplishment but, in the very back of your mind, you would know that you didn't really win anything and you would question if your decision was the right one

I don't know.

This is just my preference but I think each route should leave the player with the satisfaction that they accomplished something meaningful, even if the conclusion was bittersweet. The hardships and sacrifices the protagonist makes should shape them as a character but not leave them with a feeling like it was all for naught. If you give me a choice, I want it to lead to a net-positive result.

[Blade]

I'd honestly just prefer Hinoka not be in the story tbh. She was so obviously unneeded and phoned in.

To be honest, I forgot that she even existed when I played through Revelations until she joined in the party with those bases... If I ever wrote a Fates fanfic AU, I would write her out.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Yup, Hinoka was actually a last minute addition. For what it worth some things about Kagero was taken from Hinoka

Like it doesn't make any sense at all we're supposed to give a damn about saving a retainer Ninja from Kotaro.

[B.Leu]

Am I the only guy who want a neutral that is all about giving the finger to both side and destroying them ? I mean geez, I can't be the only one with sociopathic tendencies, no ?

Also, you're going to love the next chapter.

Only gameplay wise, of course.

Edited April 27, 2016 by B.Leu

[saisymbolic]

This is just my preference but I think each route should leave the player with the satisfaction that they accomplished something meaningful, even if the conclusion was bittersweet. The hardships and sacrifices the protagonist makes should shape them as a character but not leave them with a feeling like it was all for naught. If you give me a choice, I want it to lead to a net-positive result.

I get ya.

For a game, yeah, the overall ending would be bittersweet/(sort of) positive for the winning side but, at the very end, when all is said and through, the Protag would look at the sky and think, "I wonder..." Cue the buying of the other path.

Personally, when it comes to the premise of Fates, I would have liked to see a more somber mood. Somber. That's the word I was looking for. Not a downer ending but one that is more somber than anything.

[blah the Prussian]

Well, this is it. Hoshido is destroyed. As is any shred of respect I have for this game's writing. I honestly fail to see how the Corrin dick sucking brigade could be any worse in Birthright. Ah well. Chapter 25!

-Ryoma most certainly used his time well. Christ. It doesn't help that the game mentioned explicitly that Garon fought alongside his men at the front, while Ryoma was meditating- okay, let's be real, we all know he was getting one last fap in before he died.

-Oh my god, Garon was cutting through the Hoshidan army? If only the Hoshidans had someone of similar strength who could maybe counter Garon on the battlefield! Seriously, though, half of the issues with this chapter would be fixed if it was mentioned that Ryoma was able to wound Garon and then went inside to recover. It would actually make sense, for one.

-Ryoma logic: betraying me, murdering my people, invading my country, that's all fine, but kill my sister? That's when I snap! Also, shouldn't he have snapped at what he thought was the death of Sakura and the apparent at the time death of Takumi Trump? The fuck is so special about Hinoka? It makes no sense for Ryoma to snap like this.

-The whole "Ryoma and Corrin are locked in a room together" thing is totally ruined when you can clearly see Xander, Iago, and Garon with him. I just picture them all taking a few steps back and then the doors closing.

-WHY THE FUCK IS RYOMA WAITING? Unless your Corrin is by whatever miracle able to actually beat Ryoma the two spend the entire chapter staring awkwardly at each other. It's especially odd because this would be a great opportunity for Corrin to explain that he spared Hinoka; Garon isn't there, they are literally locked together in a soundproof chamber! It's not like you're too busy to defend yourself to say it! Spit it out, man!

-Okay, real talk? Besides the story being the story, I absolutely adore every other aspect of this chapter. The strategy is great, the difficulty is just right, and, most of all, the atmosphere. Good god, the atmosphere. The music here is wonderful, and this is the only storm the castle chapter in the entire franchise that feels realistic. This is Hoshido's last stand. They have their backs to the wall, and they can do nothing but try as hard as possible to take as much of Nohr down with them as possible. Ryoma even knows that the game is up, and that's why his entire strategy is based around killing Corrin. I noticed that there are no reinforcements in this chapter. Hoshido no longer has an army, it has the remnants of its royal guard. The music and atmosphere of this chapter made me feel far more than the story ever could. It made me feel like I was presiding over the downfall of a kingdom. This is the music that would be playing as Napoleon fought one final time at Waterloo, as the last Byzantine Emperor stared at the Ottoman hordes charging towards his palace, as Alexander marched through what was once the Persian Empire. This was not a battle, this was a slaughter, and it was glorious. It was a taste of what the story could have been, and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

-And we return you from that brief eye of goodness in this storm of shit to your regularly scheduled oh my god please kill me! Today's news: Corrin has the balls to declare that he was helping Hoshido all along, and Ryoma, instead of calling him out as a hypocrite and a coward, is all "Oh yeah I see now, thanks for obliterating my nation, murdering my people, and killing my family, I totally forgive you and think that you are the true savior of Hoshido." Give me a fucking break. This is absolutely idiotic.

-Really, though, what was Corrin's plan after sparing Ryoma? Did he honestly think that the Nohrian army would just accept Ryoma being on the throne? Also, yes, just like Hinoka, Corrin has every right to kill Ryoma, HE IS THE ENEMY HEAD OF STATE. This game's story is agony to anyone who has actually lived in the real world.

-Garon seriously holds the idiot ball here by not just killing Corrin. It's obvious he doesn't want to kill Ryoma. You no longer need him. This is logic.

-Ryoma, who is ostensibly killing himself to protect Corrin from Garon, makes a show of hinting that Corrin will betray Garon IN FROMT OF GARON! Fuck! This scene would work much better if Corrin beat Ryoma, and then was going to spare him, but Ryoma committed suicide out of shame. It would keep Ryoma off the dreaded Corrin Dick Sucking Brigade, it would mean Garon wouldn't be suspicious, and this Chapter would have good story and gameplay.

-Oh fuck you Corrin. You have no right to cry over Ryoma's death. Just... no. No.

So there we go! Based on the next Chapter's title Corrin finally grows some balls and takes the initiative to challenge Garon! Will it be worth it, or will it be as underwhelming as the rest of the story? I have a hunch myself, see if you can guess it.

[saisymbolic]

okay, let's be real, we all know he was getting one last fap in before he died.

This is my favorite post in this entire thread,

[BruceLee]

-And we return you from that brief eye of goodness in this storm of shit to your regularly scheduled oh my god please kill me! Today's news: Corrin has the balls to declare that he was helping Hoshido all along, and Ryoma, instead of calling him out as a hypocrite and a coward, is all "Oh yeah I see now, thanks for obliterating my nation, murdering my people, and killing my family, I totally forgive you and think that you are the true savior of Hoshido." Give me a fucking break. This is absolutely idiotic.

Hey, at least he spared Hinoka :'(

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, this is it. Hoshido is destroyed. As is any shred of respect I have for this game's writing. I honestly fail to see how the Corrin dick sucking brigade could be any worse in Birthright. Ah well. Chapter 25!

Imagine an entire country, sans Takumi and Saizo, doing it. And even then, Takumi comes around. Not entirely sure on Saizo, though.

-WHY THE FUCK IS RYOMA WAITING? Unless your Corrin is by whatever miracle able to actually beat Ryoma the two spend the entire chapter staring awkwardly at each other. It's especially odd because this would be a great opportunity for Corrin to explain that he spared Hinoka; Garon isn't there, they are literally locked together in a soundproof chamber! It's not like you're too busy to defend yourself to say it! Spit it out, man!

Ah, there's the one question that I think pretty much everyone ever asked. It makes no sense at all after that cutscene. Incidentally, this is why a Corrin with good Str and Def can actually take him down (albeit, really slowly). It's not that uncommon to be able to do it, even if the entire fight is a giant RNG-fest, since Corrin likely won't ever have better than 70 listed hit. It's also really uncommon for people to actually do that because there's chests and EXP to be had for other units.

-Garon seriously holds the idiot ball here by not just killing Corrin. It's obvious he doesn't want to kill Ryoma. You no longer need him. This is logic.

-Ryoma, who is ostensibly killing himself to protect Corrin from Garon, makes a show of hinting that Corrin will betray Garon IN FROMT OF GARON! Fuck! This scene would work much better if Corrin beat Ryoma, and then was going to spare him, but Ryoma committed suicide out of shame. It would keep Ryoma off the dreaded Corrin Dick Sucking Brigade, it would mean Garon wouldn't be suspicious, and this Chapter would have good story and gameplay.

Well, Anankos told Garon way back that he wasn't to kill Corrin, just make him suffer, because reasons and apparently Garon is just that beholden to this Anankos. I was also half-convinced that Garon's inconsistency was trolling for the sake of trolling at this point, since he told Iago to piss off when Iago was pressing Corrin about Hinoka's spear and immediately stopped giving a crap about the order to kill Ryoma once Ryoma suicided.

[Book Bro]

Agree on the chapter's atmosphere. I thought it was generally a standout chapter, aside from Ryoma forgiving Kamui. Him just being in there meditating... I just headcanon that he was also fighting outside before this battle and retreated inside when it was apparent Hoshido was losing. It's really dumb that none of the siblings connect the dots between the Nohrian army advancing further into the city and the other siblings being captured/dead until Kamui mentions them. But Ryoma's rage was refreshing to see, finally.

The next chapter really needed to happen much earlier in the story. It just comes across as too little too late.

[BruceLee]

I also like how in this chapter Iago is telling Corrin how their part of the army has slaughtered every Hoshidan they encountered and instead of having Corrin react to this and acknowledge it, it's completely sidestepped by Corrin ''playing evil'' and then never brought up again.

I'm sure all those that died would be relieved to hear Corrin is doing what he's doing for their sake.

siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

Edited April 26, 2016 by BruceLee