In which blah the Prussian blind reacts to FE Fates: Conquest

[saisymbolic]

It didn't take that long for my MU to K.O. Ryoma. I had Draconic Hex as a Spear Master with high skill. He died in two turns.

[Dark Sage]

Wyvern Lord Corrin w/Swordbreaker and a Dual Club completely neuters Ryoma as well, even on Lunatic. The challenge for me there was not killing him too fast before retrieving the treasures on both sides.

[Zerosabers]

I just kept throwing Corrin at him pumped full of Tonics until RNG let me win. It was cool watching all the procs go off.

[blah the Prussian]

I had Xander fight Ryoma a little, because it was meant to be, but I had Corrin deliver the finishing blow.

[B.Leu]

Ah, you see ? It was good gameplay wise.
Though I absolutely murdered Ryouma in two turns, well, I could have, but it would've been less exp for my other units.

It was like Ike versus BK... with a hammer but without a hammer.

-Ryoma most certainly used his time well. Christ. It doesn't help that the game mentioned explicitly that Garon fought alongside his men at the front, while Ryoma was meditating- okay, let's be real, we all know he was getting one last fap in before he died.

You do realize that this is probably the best part of your post, right ? xD

[blah the Prussian]

Ah, you see ? It was good gameplay wise.

Though I absolutely murdered Ryouma in two turns, well, I could have, but it would've been less exp for my other units.

It was like Ike versus BK... with a hammer but without a hammer.

You do realize that this is probably the best part of your post, right ? xD

I like to think it is the distinguished climax of my long career of irreverence towards this story.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

You know on hindsight my first run of this chapter on Lunatic is funny because Ryoma struggled to beat level 6 Corrin

Ended up having Xander kill off Ryoma because Xander x Ryoma

Edited April 27, 2016 by JSND

[Water Mage]

I know Ryoma waiting to kill Corrin seems weird storywise, but from gameplay point of view, it makes perfect sense.

It's very possible for a player's Corrin to not be strong enough to take Ryoma on their own, so they had make it possible to the player fight Ryoma in some other way.

They probably wanted to keep the one-on-one duel to the death atmosphere, which is why Ryoma and Corrin are still locked in a room and you have to open it to have other characters attack Ryoma.

And about the subject of Hinoka neglecting Takumi and Sakura because of Corrin, remember that Corrin was kidnapped when Hinoka was very young, and they were pretty close.

It's obvious that the kidnapping would affect her badly, and she was obviously mentally scarred from losing her father and brother at the same time.

It doesn't justify her behavior, but it would explain it.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Water Mage

[blah the Prussian]

I know Ryoma waiting to kill Corrin seems weird storywise, but from gameplay point of view, it makes perfect sense.

It's very possible for a player's Corrin to not be strong enough to take Ryoma on their own, so they had make it possible to the player fight Ryoma in some other way.

They probably wanted to keep the one-on-one duel to the death atmosphere, which is why Ryoma and Corrin are still locked in a room and you have to open it to have other characters attack Ryoma.

And about the subject of Hinoka neglecting Takumi and Sakura because of Corrin, remember that Corrin was kidnapped when Hinoka was very young, and they were pretty close.

It's obvious that the kidnapping would affect her badly, and she was obviously mentally scarred from losing her father and brother at the same time.

It doesn't justify her behavior, but it would explain it.

If you're familiar with this thread at all you know it is very rarely about gameplay, but rather how shit the story is. There were plenty of good ways to have Ryoma and Corrin duel one on one with a time limit. This was not one of them. For example, what if a trap door was activated, and Corrin was in a basement with Ryoma, and the army had to open the door to the basement? That would give Corrin the chance to run around and evade Ryoma.

[Water Mage]

If you're familiar with this thread at all you know it is very rarely about gameplay, but rather how shit the story is. There were plenty of good ways to have Ryoma and Corrin duel one on one with a time limit. This was not one of them. For example, what if a trap door was activated, and Corrin was in a basement with Ryoma, and the army had to open the door to the basement? That would give Corrin the chance to run around and evade Ryoma.

Oh, you meant the part about how the characters were in the duel room with Ryoma and Corrin and suddenly outside of it.

Yeah, a trap door would have been better.

And I know the thread is about the story, but justifying things is a bad habit of mine.

But you know, your comment made me realize something, that while Fates's story has mistakes, the game certainly knows how to create an atmosphere.

Chapter 6 and CQ Chapter 25 comes to mind.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Water Mage

[B.Leu]

I like to think it is the distinguished climax of my long career of irreverence towards this story.

It was indeed, epic, even if you don't forgot multiple stupid things.

Oh, and just a hint....

You won't have better.

[Tolvir]

Oh, you meant the part about how the characters were in the duel room with Ryoma and Corrin and suddenly outside of it.

Yeah, a trap door would have been better.

And I know the thread is about the story, but justifying things is a bad habit of mine.

But you know, your comment made me realize something, that while Fates's story has mistakes, the game certainly knows how to create an atmosphere.

Chapter 6 and CQ Chapter 25 comes to mind.

I think their ability to create an atmosphere, and put together a good concept for the story shows they are capable of writing a really good story, I just have no idea what is holding them back from doing so.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I think their ability to create an atmosphere, and put together a good concept for the story shows they are capable of writing a really good story, I just have no idea what is holding them back from doing so.

At this point and from what I've heard of how Fates was written, I'm more inclined to blame Kibayashi than IntSys at this point.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Phillius

[blah the Prussian]

I think their ability to create an atmosphere, and put together a good concept for the story shows they are capable of writing a really good story, I just have no idea what is holding them back from doing so.

Maybe the level designers and music composers were competent, but the writers weren't, and the designers were like "the fuck is this shit" and tried to put together something passable.

[Book Bro]

I think their ability to create an atmosphere, and put together a good concept for the story shows they are capable of writing a really good story, I just have no idea what is holding them back from doing so.

Honestly I think it's them wanting the games to be accessible to Nintendo's younger fans since they're the ones going nuts about waifus and bringing in the money. There was a post that compared Fates to shonen manga and though I'm not too familiar with manga or anime, it does seem like they're trying to keep to a specific formula with Awakening and Fates that's very different from the rest of the series in terms of story. And that's not to say I think these types of stories are fundamentally weaker, I think it's a misconception that the writers have that a more intricate story will not appeal to that demographic.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Maybe the level designers and music composers were competent, but the writers weren't, and the designers were like "the fuck is this shit" and tried to put together something passable.

I wouldn't say that the writers themselves are bad, especially since it was Kibayashi is the one who wrote most of the story. From what I've heard, it seems like their problem was that they took Kibayashi's 1500 page first draft and made very little (if any) changes to the overall narrative. That's why you get stuff like Hinoka being added into the game at Kozaki's request, but not rewriting the story to include her in any fashion beyond the role of a half-arsed foil to Camilla.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Phillius

[The DanMan]

I wouldn't say that the writers themselves are bad, especially since it was Kibayashi is the one who wrote most of the story. From what I've heard, it seems like their problem was that they took Kibayashi's 1500 page first draft and made very little (if any) changes to the overall narrative. That's why you get stuff like Hinoka being added into the game at Kozaki's request, but not rewriting the story to include her in any fashion beyond the role of a half-arsed foil to Hinoka.

She's a foil to herself?

But yeah, I pretty much agree on everything else you said.

Edited April 27, 2016 by The DanMan

[Thane]

I wouldn't say that the writers themselves are bad, especially since it was Kibayashi is the one who wrote most of the story. From what I've heard, it seems like their problem was that they took Kibayashi's 1500 page first draft and made very little (if any) changes to the overall narrative.

Isn't that their own damn fault though?

I believe it's a case of too many chefs spoiling the broth. You have Kibayashi who was busy when writing way more than he was asked to and then the writers of Intelligent Systems having to split up into teams that seemed to have communicated far too little between themselves. Couple that with some likely executive meddling and you've got a mess that I think very few people would've handled well. Regardless, I ultimately believe Intelligent Systems are to blame, since they relied a busy man and chose not to revise his first draft.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Thane

[Tolvir]

Maybe the level designers and music composers were competent, but the writers weren't, and the designers were like "the fuck is this shit" and tried to put together something passable.

But the game has a great concept. The writers put that together, not the composers or level designers. They also wrote the dialogue and the scene for Chapter 6. It shows they are capable of it, but something is or was holding them back. Whether that be executive meddling, them splitting into teams, using Kibayashi's rough draft, or a combination of all of those.

Isn't that their own damn fault though?

I believe it's a case of too many chefs spoiling the broth. You have Kibayashi who was busy when writing way more than he was asked to and then the writers of Intelligent Systems having to split up into teams that seemed to have communicated far too little between themselves. Couple that with some likely executive meddling and you've got a mess that I think very few people would've handled well. Regardless, I ultimately believe Intelligent Systems are to blame, since they relied a busy man and chose not to revise his first draft.

They definitely are to blame. Kibayashi's draft only consisted of rough character outlines, settings, and things like that. Most characters werent even named yet. It was there job to take Kibayashi's writing, edit it, and piece it all together into one fluid story, and they didnt. They made a huge mistake in splitting into teams. You dont do that when you are writing a complex story, continuity problems, as seen in Fates, is bound to happen. Example being Xander with his multiple personality disorder.

Honestly I think it's them wanting the games to be accessible to Nintendo's younger fans since they're the ones going nuts about waifus and bringing in the money. There was a post that compared Fates to shonen manga and though I'm not too familiar with manga or anime, it does seem like they're trying to keep to a specific formula with Awakening and Fates that's very different from the rest of the series in terms of story. And that's not to say I think these types of stories are fundamentally weaker, I think it's a misconception that the writers have that a more intricate story will not appeal to that demographic.

Part of that is due to Kibayashi. His writing style is very similar to that type, and contains a lot of the "tropes" that could be attached to it. Not saying that he is a bad writer, but it didnt exactly translate all that well. Younger audience could be the reason for it, but at the same time when you have things like a character disemboweling himself, and some very clear references to sex, its clear that the typical demographic of Super Mario and other Nintendo titles go for wasnt the main focus. If that was the case though that goes all the way up to executive meddling, which definitely happened considering what they said about skinship.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Tolvir

[NekoKnight]

At this point and from what I've heard of how Fates was written, I'm more inclined to blame Kibayashi than IntSys at this point.

Isn't that their own damn fault though?

I believe it's a case of too many chefs spoiling the broth. You have Kibayashi who was busy when writing way more than he was asked to and then the writers of Intelligent Systems having to split up into teams that seemed to have communicated far too little between themselves. Couple that with some likely executive meddling and you've got a mess that I think very few people would've handled well. Regardless, I ultimately believe Intelligent Systems are to blame, since they relied a busy man and chose not to revise his first draft.

Personally, I find the blame game to be a pointless exercise. Either Kibayashi wrote a good story and there was executive meddling by IS or he wrote a shit story and IS fucked up on quality control. Or maybe (more likely) it was a combination of both. Whatever the case, someone dun goofed and that's the product we got. IS needs to take their writing more seriously if we're to have a coherent story next time.

[Thane]

Personally, I find the blame game to be a pointless exercise. Either Kibayashi wrote a good story and there was executive meddling by IS or he wrote a shit story and IS fucked up on quality control. Or maybe (more likely) it was a combination of both. Whatever the case, someone dun goofed and that's the product we got. IS needs to take their writing more seriously if we're to have a coherent story next time.

That's what worries me: this WAS their attempt at a magnificent story. It's what they chose to spend their entire interview with Iwata on, and it was a major selling point. If this is them taking writing seriously, then what would happen if they just didn't bother next time?

Also, I think people are debating who messed up (more) because it's legitimately interesting. I know I would've loved to get my claws on the draft they used and relied on, just to see how much was changed.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Thane

[Water Mage]

Not playing the blame game, but this talk about Kibayashi reminds of something.

MyCastle's online features were actually Kibayashi's idea.

Maybe Kibayashi had more input in the game than he claimed.

[B.Leu]

That's what worries me: this WAS their attempt at a magnificent story. It's what they chose to spend their entire interview with Iwata on, and it was a major selling point. If this is them taking writing seriously, then what would happen if they just didn't bother next time?

Also, I think people are debating who messed up (more) because it's legitimately interesting. I know I would've loved to get my claws on the draft they used and relied on, just to see how much was changed.

Here, we have it, Thane is a lizardman. illuminati comfirmed.

Jokes aside. I completely agree with you. They promised an epic story that was to be great., they gave us a pile of bs, there is a problem.

Not playing the blame game, but this talk about Kibayashi reminds of something.

MyCastle's online features were actually Kibayashi's idea.

Maybe Kibayashi had more input in the game than he claimed.

Perhaps he just say this on the fly in between and IS just got along with it ? Perhaps it was only online ?

Or perhaps everybody's at fault: When in doubt, kill blame everything.

We can't know, we don't know the exact, exact process of the development, the draft or anything. How annoying.

Edited April 27, 2016 by B.Leu

[Augestein]

Honestly from what I've done in game development, I'd honestly say that it's ultimately the director's fault if I were going to blame someone. The writer makes up a story, and the editor(s) sit down and actually edit it, and then ultimately this is presented to the director in conjunction with the dungeon / scene makers to ensure that certain scenes go certain ways Ie, a certain amount events will always lead to fights that allow the player to have interaction and actually play the game. There, everyone kind of says what's doable, what's a terrible idea, or simply too incompatible to work.

Despite Fates' shortcomings, it's still less problematic than Radiant Dawn's direction. At least you know who you can use on a first playthrough.

[Azure Sen]

I'm really looking forward to how you react to Chapter 26, blah.

Honestly I think it's them wanting the games to be accessible to Nintendo's younger fans since they're the ones going nuts about waifus and bringing in the money. There was a post that compared Fates to shonen manga and though I'm not too familiar with manga or anime, it does seem like they're trying to keep to a specific formula with Awakening and Fates that's very different from the rest of the series in terms of story. And that's not to say I think these types of stories are fundamentally weaker, I think it's a misconception that the writers have that a more intricate story will not appeal to that demographic.

Fates wasn't really aimed towards a younger audience and, specifically, was aimed at the otaku crowd (while shounen manga is aimed towards that younger audience and really popular with all ages); all of the fanservice elements earned it a C from CERO, which is functionally equal to the ESRB's T rating. The otaku crowd is generally around my age (25 at current) and can range anywhere from 15 to 45 (sometimes but very rarely older), but the really lucrative market is in the late teens, 20s and 30s because they have more disposable income. Awakening also had a lot of otaku-pandering elements, but stuff like the imoutos, skinship and being able to marry all of the siblings is way more blatant.

Plus Fates is closer in tone, story and fanservice content to a seinen series anyway.