More Unpopular Fire Emblem Opinions

[MCProductions]

Its probably strenght in nummers. The unit roster of Hoshido is dominated by nobles, children of chiefs and those hailing from a long line of retainers . All characters of standing. This implies Hoshido is selective on who gets to join the army.

Norh on the other hand is very willing to arm every slum dweller, complete stranger or utter psychopath. And if farming is not possible then the army would be the place to go if you want work

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

[Thinks Their Own Way]

I'm glad they removed the face touching thing in the localization of Fates, to me it just looked really creepy.

[Etrurian emperor]

The beasts and hawks don't seem particularly malicious but they also show animosity to Beorc

Its only natural that they do. Beorc are never shown to have much rational reasons for their distrust and hatred. Laguz on the other hand are fully justified in being wary of Beorc because the beorc really are out to get them. From lynching townspeople, slave trading tugs up to the highest level of government in two out of three Beorc countries. The Laguz don't go much further then fully justified distrust and piracy born out of a direct attack and outright genocide of a sister clan(Or greed if you're Kilvas).

And I think that also displays the plot playing favorites with the Laguz. Lynching squads, slavers, evil scientists and advocates for eradication don't exist in the Laguz countries. That those things do exist in the lands of the beorc seems to be the reason the Laguz have the stance that they do.

[blah the Prussian]

I hate Jugdral's story not because it's bad, but because it goes out of it's way to Kali Ma your heart and punch you in the stomach. Almost every boss and mini-boss throughout both games could have a Nuremberg trial dedicated to them, with most of them ending up swinging. Verdane for crimes against peace, Augustria for conspiracy to commit a crime against peace, Silesse for treason, Thracia for war crimes, and Grannvale for war crimes, crimes against peace, crimes against humanity, and conspiracy to commit crimes against peace. Almost every facet of Jugdral is designed to be cringeworthy and repulsive to even a casually moral person. Not to mention it's the closest game in the series to a real life game of thrones, which was all sorts of fucked up, regardless of what blah would have you believe about monarchy Nothing against you, blah.

Okay, come on, crimes against peace have always been total bs. And yeah, the Lopt Sect are bad, but lets sum up what some other FE villains have gotten into:

Medeus wants to enslave the human race, both Zephiel and Sephiran want to commit omnicide (admittedly Sephiran has better reasons than Zephiel) and Grima wants to kill all humans. Yes, the Loptuoso are bad, but not as bad as other FE villains.

Also, what about Isaach and Leonstar? Both of those are decent nations. And Thracia has an actual legitimate reason to go to war. Speaking of Thracia, when did they commit war crimes? Not to mention that it has IMO the only Camus in the series who is good, Ishtar. Why? Ishtar consistently secretly works against the Lopt Sect, all while actively opposing the child hunts by ACTUALLY SAVING CHILDREN. Finally, a Camus who does something for once!

[Moblin Major General]

Okay, come on, crimes against peace have always been total bs. And yeah, the Lopt Sect are bad, but lets sum up what some other FE villains have gotten into:

Medeus wants to enslave the human race, both Zephiel and Sephiran want to commit omnicide (admittedly Sephiran has better reasons than Zephiel) and Grima wants to kill all humans. Yes, the Loptuoso are bad, but not as bad as other FE villains.

Also, what about Isaach and Leonstar? Both of those are decent nations. And Thracia has an actual legitimate reason to go to war. Speaking of Thracia, when did they commit war crimes? Not to mention that it has IMO the only Camus in the series who is good, Ishtar. Why? Ishtar consistently secretly works against the Lopt Sect, all while actively opposing the child hunts by ACTUALLY SAVING CHILDREN. Finally, a Camus who does something for once!

Don't use the Church of Loptyr as a strawman. Except for maybe child hunts, everything in FE4 was common pre-1914, which most people today actively try to avoid and protest. And Yes, Manster and Isaach are good nations. But they are the exception because both of them were victims to the FE Ottoman Empire with some Russian Empire mixed in (read: The Sorrow of Miletos). Thracia's justification doesn't matter because they killed the crown prince of Manster in cold blood. And I hate Ishtar because of where she comes from, and that she would rather die than support a rather large group of rightful, reformist, progressive, and righteous monarchs, the leader of which being more apt to give amnesty to her. Instead, she foolishly hangs on to the ideal of changing an unrepentant, devil-dealing, and overtly genocidal head ruler. As for the other main villains, Medeus could've tried harder to oppress and destroy humanity, but actively didn't, Sephiran was probably going to be jaded enough to pull his stunt before the 1000 year mark anyway, Zephiel succeeded in a roundabout way by opening Roy's eyes to the fact that cruelty is the creator of evil, and Grima feels more like a Silent Dragon than an Earth Dragon, meaning that you can't fault him given what happened to Anankos. The Church of Loptyr exists purely to quash hope.

[blah the Prussian]

...what? It doesn't matter how any of these people varied, that doesn't change the fact that TWO of them actively tried to end all life, and one of them forever (Zephiel). And yeah, watch me fault Grima for, if the Future Past is any indication, having clearly genocidal intent. Apparently him being a Silent Dragon means I can't fault him for what he tries, but I can fault Ishtar for doing way less? That seems suspiciously like a double standard to me. Finally, how is the Lopt Cult like the Ottoman or Russian Empires? I happen to be a fan of the pre-Selim II Ottomans, so how are they like a maniacal cult that actively sacrifices children? If anything the Lopt Sect are FE's take on the Aztecs.

[The Draco Knight]

- all the games of the series are good

- Chapter 20 from Conquest is one of the best chapter in the series

- The big maps of genealogy are fantastic

- Arvis is an overrated character

[Moblin Major General]

...what? It doesn't matter how any of these people varied, that doesn't change the fact that TWO of them actively tried to end all life, and one of them forever (Zephiel). And yeah, watch me fault Grima for, if the Future Past is any indication, having clearly genocidal intent. Apparently him being a Silent Dragon means I can't fault him for what he tries, but I can fault Ishtar for doing way less? That seems suspiciously like a double standard to me. Finally, how is the Lopt Cult like the Ottoman or Russian Empires? I happen to be a fan of the pre-Selim II Ottomans, so how are they like a maniacal cult that actively sacrifices children? If anything the Lopt Sect are FE's take on the Aztecs.

Arvis is like the Sultan that lost out to the Young Turks, and child hunts are more like Pogroms than sacrificial hunts by the Aztecs. And Zephiel only wanted to release the dragons on Elibe, which was more akin to the fall of the Byzantine Empire than a nuclear winter. The reason I hate Ishtar is because of the battered wife trope she implies, much like Harley Quinn. She could've taken advantage of Julius and killed him with her holy weapon, but instead pretended she loved him, even going so far as to doing what her entire house does best: dying because of unhealthy relationships.

[blah the Prussian]

Fair enough with Ishtar. Then again I hate most Camuses. That actually is a fairly interesting comparison, although I'd argue Arvis is more akin to the Guangxu Emperor. Regardless, no, Zephiel is pretty explicit that he wants to release the dragons so they'll kill all humans due to his daddy issues. That's worse than anything the Granvalle Empire ever did.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I'm glad they removed the face touching thing in the localization of Fates, to me it just looked really creepy.

not unpopular opinion. I am actually glad its gone and i was pretty ok with skinship. The reason having to do with tedium cuz even just meeting and talking (or spouse bonding) is really tedious after a while. Imagine having to rub their faces on top of it. Blehh.

- Charlotte isn't a bad unit

Wait, why is this an unpopular one? My Charlottes always turned out bomb af. I dont put THAT much effort into her either.

[Garland Chaos]

I like Roy and Eliwood.

I like FE2.

I think Seliph is the worst lord in the series.

[The DanMan]

Wait, why is this an unpopular one? My Charlottes always turned out bomb af. I dont put THAT much effort into her either.

Charlotte's bad the same way "Effie's a total noob trap"; her low skill stat requires some investment, which LTC'ers find impractical. Thus, she's deemed as bad.

[BrightBow]

To me, the game doesn't become less creepy because it was taken out. I know it was there. I know what those chikan lines sound like if you have an S support. And I know it runs on Hentai logic where someone who initially protests against having their boundaries violated will start loving their predicament after a few minutes at most. So considering I can't just unlearn those things, I would have preferred for it to stay because the only fun that I have with the game's writing is to see just how awful it gets (mind you, that's a lot of fun). Just like I also made sure that I could see S rank with one of the siblings before marrying my actual partner, which btw, was utterly glorious. The speed and severity with which the game dismissed it's theme of family is an amazing sight to behold. IS has truly raised "lack of commitment" into an art form in itself.

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm going to assume this is an unpopular opinion because most criticism Xander gets is about how he fulfills his role as a Camus.

I actually think Xander is one of the more justified ones. Sure, going ''But father can't be evil!'' after yet another batch of executions isn't entirely rational but at least Xander has reasons to give his father the benefit of the doubt. Garon is his father, was a decent man once and through the concubine conflicts there is a ready explanation on how his kind father soured.

That's more then a lot of that archetype get. Selena and maybe Ishtar have convincing reasons but the others lack an explanation for their attachment to evil people.

Camus willingly serves a dragon out to subjugate humanity. On who's behalf does he do this? A cowardly, unworthy king who had little problem selling his preteen kids to Gharnef to be tortured. There is little indication this man was ever someone worth fighting for.

Eldigan is widely considered to take his archtype to stupid levels. He serves an evil warmonger who murdered the previous king who Eldigan is implied to have been close to, and who locks him up for no reason. With Eldigan himself also being a descendant of Hezul and a more worthy one at that considering he and not king Shagaal is the one with the holy blood, Eldigan's claim to the throne is strong enough to have his loyalty to Shagaal begin and end only where he himself wants it to. And Eldigan still wants to be loyal because....?

Por does a pretty good job of showing why Shiharam might be conflicted but in the end he still floods the home of the people who adore him for the sake of people who according to Petrine never cared about him at all.

[blah the Prussian]

The only way that the Camus archetype can really be done right is this: have the character be essentially deluding himself into thinking his cause is still good. This only really works if his boss got corrupted by power or something else. So, as a concept, I agree, Xander is actually a good character. The problem is that he's so terribly written, especially when compared to Ishtar or Selena, that it all just falls apart.

[Moblin Major General]

There is one Camus I like: Vaida. She works for the Black Fang because Desmond tells her to. She has no reason to disobey because of how he presents himself to his soldiers, although we are aware of his true intentions. Like most Camuses, engaging directly in combat with her is optional, and she doesn't fuck around if you. However, the real draw is that she is recruitable once she peels back all the lies. Second place is Murdock purely because FE7 shows that he is devoutly loyal to Zephiel, and that he has no regrets, unlike nearly all the others, except for Petrine.

[blah the Prussian]

Vaida isn't a Camus, though. The whole point of a Camus is that they never join the good guys despite knowing they're on the wrong side.

Edited June 9, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Moblin Major General]

Vaida isn't a Camus, though. The whole point of a Camus is that they never join the good guys despite knowing they're on the wrong side.

Fair Enough. I called her one if only because there isn't one for FE7... which isn't actually a bad thing.

[The Draco Knight]

Arvis is like the Sultan that lost out to the Young Turks, and child hunts are more like Pogroms than sacrificial hunts by the Aztecs. And Zephiel only wanted to release the dragons on Elibe, which was more akin to the fall of the Byzantine Empire than a nuclear winter. The reason I hate Ishtar is because of the battered wife trope she implies, much like Harley Quinn. She could've taken advantage of Julius and killed him with her holy weapon, but instead pretended she loved him, even going so far as to doing what her entire house does best: dying because of unhealthy relationships.

The problem is Julius wouldn't be able to die from a Mjolnir because of the Loptyr tome, wbich he brings always with him. So, I don't think It would be and besides, It is showed several times in both FE4 e 5 that they love each other(heck, It's probably the only thing left from the old julius) and, because of this, she would prefer free in secret the children rather than kill him

I'm going to assume this is an unpopular opinion because most criticism Xander gets is about how he fulfills his role as a Camus.

I actually think Xander is one of the more justified ones. Sure, going ''But father can't be evil!'' after yet another batch of executions isn't entirely rational but at least Xander has reasons to give his father the benefit of the doubt. Garon is his father, was a decent man once and through the concubine conflicts there is a ready explanation on how his kind father soured.

That's more then a lot of that archetype get. Selena and maybe Ishtar have convincing reasons but the others lack an explanation for their attachment to evil people.

Camus willingly serves a dragon out to subjugate humanity. On who's behalf does he do this? A cowardly, unworthy king who had little problem selling his preteen kids to Gharnef to be tortured. There is little indication this man was ever someone worth fighting for.

Eldigan is widely considered to take his archtype to stupid levels. He serves an evil warmonger who murdered the previous king who Eldigan is implied to have been close to, and who locks him up for no reason. With Eldigan himself also being a descendant of Hezul and a more worthy one at that considering he and not king Shagaal is the one with the holy blood, Eldigan's claim to the throne is strong enough to have his loyalty to Shagaal begin and end only where he himself wants it to. And Eldigan still wants to be loyal because....?

Por does a pretty good job of showing why Shiharam might be conflicted but in the end he still floods the home of the people who adore him for the sake of people who according to Petrine never cared about him at all.

I think that the problem isn't about Eldigan, but his family.

We all know that, in the past, it was the royal family that has the Hezul holy blood, but the younger daughter of Hezul himself, who had the major hezul holy blood, fell in love with the prince of Nodion. With this, the Nodion family would begin to inherit both the blood of Hezul and Mystetlain, which they could use onlt if the swear an unshakable loyalty to rhe royal family.

My point stays in these last words: Eldigan's parents probably made him to think that he should be loyal to Agustria and his king, no matter what happens and who is the king, just like their predecessors did to them.

But maybe I'm just making things.

Edited June 9, 2016 by The Wyvern Rider

[MCProductions]

Fair Enough. I called her one if only because there isn't one for FE7... which isn't actually a bad thing.

Lyoid and Linus

I think Mustafa and Xander are the only good Camuses. Maybe Nohrrin if he counts, because they have actual justification for why they stay with their army that's actually understandable.

[NekoKnight]

The only way that the Camus archetype can really be done right is this: have the character be essentially deluding himself into thinking his cause is still good. This only really works if his boss got corrupted by power or something else. So, as a concept, I agree, Xander is actually a good character. The problem is that he's so terribly written, especially when compared to Ishtar or Selena, that it all just falls apart.

We need more Duessel and less Camus.

“Your Majesty, you know that I will gladly lay down my life for an honorable cause! But these orders- and all of our recent actions- they are not just! If I saw any way in which this invasion protected Grado, I would hold my tongue. But now, Renais is left ungoverned to drown in chaos, and we gain nothing! Why do you wage this war? What is it you hope to achieve? You've sent our men to fight and die for nothing! This isn't war- it's murder!” -Duessel

How I wish Xander had said this. Instead we had him being willfully ignorant until Garon screamed at him "I'm evil! Take a hint!"

Lyoid and Linus

I think Mustafa and Xander are the only good Camuses. Maybe Nohrrin if he counts, because they have actual justification for why they stay with their army that's actually understandable.

Does Mustafa count though? I thought you had to be on the bad guy side willingly, but Mustafa (like Eagler from FE7) were only fighting because their families were threatened.

Edited June 9, 2016 by NekoKnight

[Magical Glace]

The old Black Fang in general consisted of decent people really.

Sonia was the root of all their problems.

[MCProductions]

Does Mustafa count though? I thought you had to be on the bad guy side willingly, but Mustafa (like Eagler from FE7) were only fighting because their families were threatened.

Well, according to the "ever helpful" FE wiki, he counts.

[blah the Prussian]

The old Black Fang in general consisted of decent people really.Sonia was the root of all their problems.

Except that they were professional killers and vigilantes? They were even evil has standards before Sonia, not good.

[Magical Glace]

Except that they were professional killers and vigilantes? They were even evil has standards before Sonia, not good.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't their purpose before Sonia married Brandon killing corrupt nobles?

It's been a while since I last played FE7, but I think remember the game making a point of the fact you're fighting them because of Sonia's influence on them.