More Unpopular Fire Emblem Opinions

[Augestein]

I think what upsets people about that so much is Corrin just straight up let's him shoot her. Not just once, but multiple times. I mean I know if someone threatened to do that to my sister, I'd tear through them so fast they wouldn't even be able to say " I kid." Especially strange when you consider that Corrin is willing to basically destroy everyone in Kana's world when Kana wasn't even attacked. No I'll grant you that it's a child versus a sibling, but I think the point still stands here.

In the case of Fire Emblem, this might be unpopular for me, but I can understand why they'd shoot a medic. All medics are practitioners of magic. You can't have a gifted healer that isn't also an equally talented mage.

[Harvey]

I think people are harsh towards Camilla as both a character and her design. Fire Emblem has always had those types of characters whether its old or new so really, why point at her being the first one to be this odd?

[Thane]

Fire Emblem is not real life, and Ryouma did not attack her. Even if he did, like Takumi, he'd be well within his right to do so since she unquestionably serves the man invading their country and is a person of influence and power.

If we go by real life standards during medieval times, we can always ask Blah the Prussian what happened to high value hostages like royalty.

[solrocknroll]

He didn't shoot Elise because it was a tactical decision, he shot her because he was being angsty. You can argue that it makes sense for his character to do so but it's still worth calling him out on. Regardless of what side you're on, shooting someone because they made you mad is irresponsible at best.

By that point in the story, Takumi was already starting to be corrupted. It's not like he made a rational decision because he wasn't rational at the time.

[Alastor15243]

Heh, I'm surprised that my opinion on counter flew totally under the radar.

[Gradivus.]

Topics will automatically get derailed to discuss Fates' story.

I agree with it though, I hate the effects that Conquest's counter spam in lategame has, not only in promoting EP action, but also in making swords, lances and axes terrible against counter enemies.

[Refa]

I agree that it was flawed but I still liked it more than Awakening's implementation of it.

[Jedi]

I agree that it was flawed but I still liked it more than Awakening's implementation of it.

To be fair, pretty much every game in the series has done something Awakening did but better

In my honest opinion anyways.

[Thane]

To be fair, pretty much every game in the series has done something Awakening did but better

In my honest opinion anyways.

Aside from the waifus, you mean

[shadowofchaos]

Aside from the waifus, you mean

But in Fates, you actually touched your waifus in the JP version, said lewd lines, AND actually screwed in canon in the middle of a war.

Edited October 12, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Augestein]

Topics will automatically get derailed to discuss Fates' story.

I agree with it though, I hate the effects that Conquest's counter spam in lategame has, not only in promoting EP action, but also in making swords, lances and axes terrible against counter enemies.

I think it's also the fact that the skill just happens to be on a regular unit that isn't even the right class to have it. I don't mind having to check skills, but Conquest does this a lot with skills in an obnoxious way ala lunge ninjas. Like seriously designers, you're not clever having a room that debuffs you to hell and back like this. I'm obviously going to put a tank in the room, and the setup is just stupid. Have a tank, and have that unit get debuffed while being paired up with hopefully another defensive unit. And then the following turn, clean house.

I honestly would go further to say I just hate counter as a skill. As it requires an insane amount of precision to effectively use for the player as in you don't want to be taking damage on EP if you can help it, and dealing that damage back only opens up opportunities to kill an enemy you didn't want to leave space for your unit to be killed-- in the same way that Wrath can be a dangerous skill to have. In older ones like PoR, it was pretty useless because it activated on procs. I'd probably like counter more if it was "activates damage that you would have received when you DON'T take damage." That would have made it good for both EP and PP.

[Thane]

But in Fates, you actually touched your waifus in the JP version, said lewd lines, AND actually screwed in canon in the middle of a war.

I'm disappointed in you, not only did you forget I played the Japanese version too, but that you think that lewd lines make waifus better? Unforgivable, sir, unforgivable

[shadowofchaos]

I think it's also the fact that the skill just happens to be on a regular unit that isn't even the right class to have it. I don't mind having to check skills, but Conquest does this a lot with skills in an obnoxious way ala lunge ninjas. Like seriously designers, you're not clever having a room that debuffs you to hell and back like this. I'm obviously going to put a tank in the room, and the setup is just stupid. Have a tank, and have that unit get debuffed while being paired up with hopefully another defensive unit. And then the following turn, clean house.

I honestly would go further to say I just hate counter as a skill. As it requires an insane amount of precision to effectively use for the player as in you don't want to be taking damage on EP if you can help it, and dealing that damage back only opens up opportunities to kill an enemy you didn't want to leave space for your unit to be killed-- in the same way that Wrath can be a dangerous skill to have. In older ones like PoR, it was pretty useless because it activated on procs. I'd probably like counter more if it was "activates damage that you would have received when you DON'T take damage." That would have made it good for both EP and PP.

It's been said time and time again that enemies have to compensate for not having human strategic capability.

Complaining that they're not in the right class for them to have the skill is pretty much denying the nice and creative combos they can use to make challenges.

Now, as for your other complaints, they seem valid enough.

But you're putting too much stock in wanting to limit the enemies to the capabilities of the human controlled units.

I'm disappointed in you, not only did you forget I played the Japanese version too, but that you think that lewd lines make waifus better? Unforgivable, sir, unforgivable

But the question is, did you watch enough hentai to appreciate and understand the Japanese lewd lines? Edited October 12, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Augestein]

It's been said time and time again that enemies have to compensate for not having human strategic capability.

Complaining that they're not in the right class for them to have the skill is pretty much denying the nice and creative combos they can use to make challenges.

Now, as for your other complaints, they seem valid enough.

I understand that. That's why it's common for enemies to often out number you and have terrain advantage. It's an ordeal for the player to overcome. I don't mind it in most cases. But how Fire Emblem did it here is like taking a Warrior class giving it Mage class MP and then giving it Mana Shield as a skill. So the class is a class that doesn't have to use MP but gets another "health bar." It's not done in a way that feels clever, but more to just annoy the player. That's how some of the combos are.

I don't mind combos that make interesting setups, but they need to be in a way that feels intelligible. Slapping Counter on an enemy randomly doesn't feel like a good combo. Cool things were like the Sky Knights that had Pass in Hinoka's chapter. It puts a pressure on you that otherwise couldn't exist if you build a wall of fortified units, which means that the dragon veins become more vital to use in order to beat the chapter. It's the perfect chapter to sum this up too, because Hinoka gets to use Dragon Veins without having to use different ones like the player.

[Alastor15243]

I think it's also the fact that the skill just happens to be on a regular unit that isn't even the right class to have it. I don't mind having to check skills, but Conquest does this a lot with skills in an obnoxious way ala lunge ninjas. Like seriously designers, you're not clever having a room that debuffs you to hell and back like this. I'm obviously going to put a tank in the room, and the setup is just stupid. Have a tank, and have that unit get debuffed while being paired up with hopefully another defensive unit. And then the following turn, clean house.

I honestly would go further to say I just hate counter as a skill. As it requires an insane amount of precision to effectively use for the player as in you don't want to be taking damage on EP if you can help it, and dealing that damage back only opens up opportunities to kill an enemy you didn't want to leave space for your unit to be killed-- in the same way that Wrath can be a dangerous skill to have. In older ones like PoR, it was pretty useless because it activated on procs. I'd probably like counter more if it was "activates damage that you would have received when you DON'T take damage." That would have made it good for both EP and PP.

I disagree regarding lunge ninjas. It's not like the player is following those rules either, we can get skills from multiple classes, I don't understand why only the player should be allowed to cheat. I think having enemies with weird skill combinations is the single best thing about Conquest, it gives enemies character and history on top of adding more strategic depth than just raw stat inflation. Edited October 12, 2016 by Alastor15243

[Augestein]

I disagree regarding lunge ninjas. It's not like the player is following those rules either, we can get skills from multiple classes, I don't understand why only the player should be allowed to cheat. I think having enemies with weird skill combinations is the single best thing about Conquest, it gives enemies character and history on top of adding more strategic depth than just raw stat inflation.

That's the thing though, something like lunge ninjas IS stat inflation, because it requires a unit to be able to survive that onslaught. That's precisely why I brought that case up. As for your units, that'd be something that I honestly find kinda bad with newer Fire Emblems.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Probably because I am writing Radiant Dawn Fanfic & I'm playing Path of Radiance, so I'm in a Tellius-mood at the moment, but:

The Dawn Brigade could have been good characters. I say could have (I acknowledge that the game doesn't treat them very well), but in the game themselves are pretty bland. Say, for example, Meg. Meg in game is obsessed with Zihark (making her a Proto-Tharja?) and that's... Basically it.

But think about it: Meg is a pretty brave young woman who heads off into a country that she's probably never been to to find a man who she's never met, and even if Zihark defects to the Laguz Alliance during Part 3, she decides to stick by Daein. Could that be because she wants to help Daein after Crimea abandoned the country? Is it because she likes living in Daein? How did she react to the rebellion in her home country during Part 2? Was she scared for her father? Worried? Did she think about going back home? If so, why did she decide to stay in Daein?

MEG COULD HAVE BEEN A REALLY COMPLEX AND INTERESTING CHARACTER, IF THE GAME HAD BEEN MORE WILLING TO DEVELOP HER (either through support conversations or giving the Dawn Brigade more screen time)

And it's not just Meg either. We have Aran. A Daein man who is in the Begnion Occupational Alliance who defects to the Dawn Brigade. What horrors has he seen whilst working for the Occupational Army? Has he been scarred by these events? How does he view himself, and does that affect the relationship he has with his childhood friend Laura? Or we could discuss Laura. Why did she decide to stick with the Dawn Brigade after Daein is liberated? How does the events of Part Four affect her belief in Ashera?

...

I could go on, but I won't.

In a nutshell, whilst I do recognise the Dawn Brigade is not that fleshed out in game, I think that they could have been really interesting characters (maybe even more interesting than the Griel Mercanries) if they had support conversations and more screen time.

Dude, what about Fiona? Fiona has SO MUCH potential to be awesome, story-wise. Her father was a former Rider who knew Greil really well! She herself, leads a free state within Daein! She, coupled with Tauroneo, could have been a really interesting insight on how Daein worked pre-Ashnard and the actual politics of the country. ARGH

Tv Tropes is a bad source

fixed that for you.

I think people are harsh towards Camilla as both a character and her design. Fire Emblem has always had those types of characters whether its old or new so really, why point at her being the first one to be this odd?

I strongly agree.

[Thane]

I think people are harsh towards Camilla as both a character and her design. Fire Emblem has always had those types of characters whether its old or new so really, why point at her being the first one to be this odd?

There's a vast difference between Camilla and other such characters: the game expects us to like her.

Camilla is shown no respect by the developers nor in the game proper, her supports either revolve entirely around Corrin or her downright chilling lack of integrity or respect for personal boundaries, going so far as to infantilize Takumi, creep out Corrin and goading Suzukaze into doing something he doesn't want to do. In the main story, when she's not practically being nothing but prop like the rest of the sisters and Ryouma, she's either having a nervous breakdown because of Corrin, mindlessly going along with Garon's plans or acting like a horrible person towards the ones she interact with (specifically that one scene with her and Hinoka in Conquest).

Camilla's an awful human being, and while there's room for such characters, they have the gall to make her out to be anything but a very unstable, dangerous person, which is laughable.

As for the design, I think it mainly has to do with her status as princess. Fan service is one thing, but her walking around with only her panties on around the castle and in front of the army feels more than a little out of place.

[MCProductions]

FE has also expected us to like the likes of every Camus ever, the highly questionable Tharja, and SEVERAL characters who treat war like a game. Camilla has issues yes, but I think she just fits into her archetype more than anything else. The only thing differing her from Minerva, Jill, or Milady is her "assets" as far as story role is concerned, and her personality makes sense considering her backstory. I'd honestly be more concerned if she went thru the shit she did as a kid, and WASN'T this way past fucked up.

Camilla is probably one of the better written Fates characters, and while that isn't saying much, it does mean I'm inclined to agree with Harvey.

As for her design, yeah, it's bad, but calling her a bad character based off design alone is just plain wrong. I dislike Ryoma's design, but that doesn't influence my opinion of his character for example.

[Alastor15243]

The thing with Camilla is that outside of her supports she's literally just, as Ghast said, "a walking, talking set of sweater dumplings" and a human barrage of incestuous double entendres. The fact that she's not clued into the truth of the invasion of Hoshido until pretty much the end of the game only worsens it by preventing her from growing as a human being at all. Granted, that applies to all of the Nohr royals in Conquest, but Camilla's situation is the most exacerbated by it.

[KoimanZX]

I actually found Camilla's infantilization of Takumi quite amusing purely out of schadenfreude.

[Augestein]

The thing with Camilla is that outside of her supports she's literally just, as Ghast said, "a walking, talking set of sweater dumplings" and a human barrage of incestuous double entendres. The fact that she's not clued into the truth of the invasion of Hoshido until pretty much the end of the game only worsens it by preventing her from growing as a human being at all. Granted, that applies to all of the Nohr royals in Conquest, but Camilla's situation is the most exacerbated by it.

I don't know, Hinoka has that problem too. None of the sisters really get any arcs that are noteworthy. Elise is the only one that actually feels like a character in the games because she actually actively does things-- not significant things in most cases, but enough to actually be present in the plot. Camilla just kinda becomes another unit-- same for Hinoka in that regard. The reason why it's so bad for Camilla, is because the supports don't really shed much light on her without picking apart every word in them and over-analyzing them.

[S_Cero]

The based god has an unpopular opinion. Ya'll favorite FE games suck.

[saisymbolic]

-Lyn x Rath is the best.

-Arthur is a good unit.

-Lunatic!Conquest isn't that difficult. But, I suppose it gets easier once the mechanics are grasped so this might not count.

-F!Kana x Shiro is adorable. Caeldori x Ignatius is one of Cordelia v. 2.0's better supports.

-Odin x Peri is better than Laslow x Peri.

On a side note, I've said this in a previous thread but, to be honest, none of the royal siblings feel all that important to the story of Fates. None of them. I don't know if it's the characterization of them all, the way the narrative is told or the complete disconnect between the characters in the story when compared to their supports.

For an (infamous) example, Xander. A complete scumbag (to the majority) during the main story, but he's a pretty stand up guy in his supports. Another example is Hinoka. She's practically a piece of cardboard during the main story line; but (some) of her supports flesh her out quite well, like hers with Hinata and Silas for example.

I don't know. I feel like IS needs to find another way to somehow incorporate the supports into the main campaign, and vice-versa. Or maybe they should cut down the cast in order to dedicate more time fleshing out the backgrounds and personalities of the playable troops.

It could just be me, though.

[Thane]

FE has also expected us to like the likes of every Camus ever, the highly questionable Tharja, and SEVERAL characters who treat war like a game. Camilla has issues yes, but I think she just fits into her archetype more than anything else. The only thing differing her from Minerva, Jill, or Milady is her "assets" as far as story role is concerned, and her personality makes sense considering her backstory. I'd honestly be more concerned if she went thru the shit she did as a kid, and WASN'T this way past fucked up.

Camilla is probably one of the better written Fates characters, and while that isn't saying much, it does mean I'm inclined to agree with Harvey.

As for her design, yeah, it's bad, but calling her a bad character based off design alone is just plain wrong. I dislike Ryoma's design, but that doesn't influence my opinion of his character for example.

The difference, of course, being that, while I don't like particularly care for Tharja, we at least see her do good things in her supports. Yes, I know about her treatment of Noire and no, I don't like it, even if it was another version of her, but she helps people out in Virion's support, laments not being able to save innocents in Vaike's and tries hard to comfort Nowi in hers. Tharja is also called out on her behavior by people like Gaius, who calls her "unbelievably creepy". This is a stark contrast to Camilla, who we're simply told is a good person, yet we only see the complete opposite. We're told she's nurturing, but she doesn't really care about other people's feelings, instead doing only what she wants and tries to sway other people to do what she wants. Camilla has almost no humanizing moments to speak of, unlike Tharja.

Camilla is by far one of the worst written characters in Fire Emblem. First and foremost, her role in the main story is miniscule, where two out of three cutscenes she appears in are entirely centered around her appearance. Like Alastor said, she's not even really a part of the Conquest story, much like the rest of the siblings, because she's kept in the dark about Garon, robbing her of any potential character development that could've come from dealing with the dilemma of having to kill your own father.

She would've been salvageable had she had decent supports, but she just doesn't. It seems like whenever people discuss Camilla, they go for headcanons and treat them as indisputable facts. The fact of the matter is that we know very little about her background, only getting a few allusions to it in Niles' support, and the personality we see in other supports is frankly speaking appalling, and the other people putting up with her is completely unbelievable.