Pokémon uPick Mafia - Day 4

[charlie_]

Untitled Votals

(3) Manix: Paperblade, Prims, Shin

(2) Crysta: Refa, Sunwoo

(2) Shin: Crysta, Manix

(5) Not Voting: BT, eclipse, Iris, Marth, Strawman

With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch and 8 to hammer early. You have around 60 hours to decide on a lynch.

[Crysta]

Eh, re-reading makes it read more like "I want to hear from Crysta" first rather than "I'm voting to pressure her only a couple hours before deadline". We're talking about him forgetting to move his vote in #213, right and thinking he did move it going into this phase, right?

[Crysta]

I am gud at grammar at 2 am

[Crysta]

I'm Blitz > Manix more because I'm confident Shin is scum, really, and I can't see them being on a team together.

A BT post would be nice, but I get subbing in can be daunting.

[Crysta]

And I'd probably change my lynch priority to Manix > eclipse with the role stuff now elaborated on (though I'm a little dumb when it comes to setup stuff).

[Bluedoom]

@Prims: You're probably right about the part where her questions don't get her anywhere. Not sure what to think about the activity or her wall post, really.

I'm not voting atm, more so because I would just default to Manix/Crysta anyway and they already have wagons on them. I thought of voting Boron to pressure her to give non-blitzwagon reads but then she claimed dayvig so lol.

Dunno who else I'd vote. Some flaker like Strawman? I'd go Manix>Crysta atm.

[Bluedoom]

There was a phantom vote of Shin voting on me the previous phase which was a mod errior; he might have misremembered that he actually was voting for eclipse tbh. I think him saying he wasn't going to just sit on the vote was to make sure he wasn't doing the same thing he was accusing me of.

I think he's exaggerating, and being self-conscious while not being terribly cautious.

Blitz's content is significantly less... which is why I don't feel any better than when I initially did. Him being gone didn't reduce his scuminess to me, though yeah his lynch isn't going to provide much info.

I would not lynch eclipse over Blitz.

Oh, I see. Didn't know that.

You're missing the point- how are you so sure that Blitz is scum off of one post? It was a good case during RVS but now this is just tunneling.

[Crysta]

I'm not so sure. I'm just more sure.

I mean my lynch list isn't that impressive in any regard; I think Shin is scum, and if that is the case then I'm pretty much scratching eclipse and Manix and Blitz is the only one left - and even that can change when BT arrives and that slot has something to it's name beyond the questions.

Then I'm left in a sea of ??? which doesn't seem to be all that different from everyone else, who seem to primarily reading me/Manix/Blitz as scum.

[Shin]

I think I may have had a massive brainfart. I'd been informed by my landlord that like a year's worth of bills needed paying retrospectively so I may have missed actually voting in my post. It looks SUPER BAD, but I can't really say much else on the matter.

Still this!

I don't like Manix's defense of his Gaius vote. "If he were scum, I wouldn't look bad". Of course not, scum wouldn't lynch their own buddies like that! His vote on me is really reactive and I don't like his dismissal of points raised against his logic, he feels more content just holding onto his position rather than accepting criticism of it.

The fact he's missed a post of mine feels like he's just about following the game but not really processing it. Still the same issues I had with him earlier.

Crysta's vote on Blitz was old, she never really reconfirmed it and when her current opinion on the slot is "lol", it doesn't really speak much for the strength of it. Again, the vote feels reactive, My issue wasn't with the fact I didn't want Blitz lynched, the reason was that you wanted him lynched on the basis of nothing when other stuff was about. Like the last wall didn't suck, but the focus on Blitz, even in reads on other people (like Paper) is unhealthy.

RUDE. What about ME?!

You're still slightly SMELLY. Your were a fairly early read and I still have some issues with your early play. The happening with Manix' claim feels like a genuine mistake, but I'm not going to use that to dispel how I felt early on in the game. Your lynch or read priority isn't exactly clear, a lot of your posts come across as defensive more than anything else. My initial issues were with the Crysta logic, rather than the vote itself, because it wasn't clear why Crysta stood out. I guess I'm having the same issues with the lack of a definitive "to do" list.

I'm not going to try to read into Boron's role, I'll just get CONFUSED. Looking back, I've got minor issues with the LG case logic but I suck at reading Boron. I'm not quite sure where the claim came from, it seems like an odd thing to announce when you're not under fire but then again why would scum do it so readily. Long story short: NO CLUE.

[Crysta]

So am I tunneling and having a scum hard-on for the Blitz vote or am I uncommitted and it's weak? The votesitting is bad, sure, but I did not feel confident in moving it so... I didn't.

I feel picking on the "lol" is stretchy; it's there because my stance on Blitz has been the same since I've voted him.

[Crysta]

In addendum: it wasn't "nothing" but obviously not a whole lot. It was still what I was the most confident about. I can agree that I should have pressured other people harder, though.

[Crysta]

And you wanted to talk to me but you wanted to kill me in two hours if I didn't make it in time?

[Strawman]

Yo so I realize I haven't existed and am probably about to get prodded so I'm just sayin' sorry and I'm headed out the door for work but will actually be on and participating tonight sry I'm the worst.

[BT.]

##Vote: Boron

I was planning on voting Manix but then this popped up. That's a restricted governor. Not a dayvig. She was in null-scum territory before the claim because I didn't like her D1 cases, they felt mostly based on disagreements in play rather than scum incentive, and the rest of her play didn't do anything to me. I also couldn't follow her vote reason today because she basically says both Manix and Crysta aren't committed. I can't parse the reason for Crysta > Manix after trying a few times and it feels arbitrary.

My other dislike for a big part of D1 was Eclipse but she's not as big a priority now, especially with claims shenanigans in that I'm willing to wait and see what she claims. And the meta townreads. For now I'll ask people who had meta townreads on her if it's mostly influenced by the role crumbing (jury's out if that's a town role or not) or if there's something rooted in play that I can count on.

As for Manix, he's null aside from two main points, which both mean what Shin said about him not processing the thread. First, the reason behind the consolidation vote on Gaius was really weak. Even if you're town running on minimal gas I would've expected a better comprehension of the Gaius lynch. Like, it retracts from the notion that you actually thought he was scum, and more like you read the thread loosely and tacked on what you remembered from people's cases without believing in it. Second thing is today's Shin vote: the cornerstone was that Shin's suspicion of Manix came out of nowhere, which it didn't. And after that fact was settled all that's left is that his votes stick to popular-ish opinion. Well, he's far from the only one. The vote has 0 basis. His other main suspect is Marth? The whole unnecessary rhetoric / weirdness deal feels like nitpicks because Marth's play is rad.

I wanted to at least confirm Manix's claim, but I can't because Blitz was TOO BUSY IDLING. I doubt Manix would lie about a role like that though, town or scum. Maybe it's some other interference utility like bus driver (but that's a long shot).

I liked Crysta's D1 posts so I'm not a huge fan of the wagon (even though I get the reasoning behind it). I think it's suspect if it stays around after her recent posts.

Strawman and Iris get the token lurkscum accusations. I was gonna consider Paper and Prims but I liked their D2 posts.

[BT.]

##Vote: Boron

The 'preview post' functionality bugged out on me at some point so I had to c/p from offsite and lost formatting. Mafia woes.

[BT.]

Now I realize it also ate up my URL tags somehow, and I don't remember what I had linked. Except for Boron's Gaius votepost. That's the main post I was talking about w.r.t "play disagreements" - the entire Gaius vote felt that way.

[Bluedoom]

Is it fine to assume that Boron's role is town? Seems like negative utility for scum, since they don't have a good control over the role

Unless its occurrence is anonymous.

[BT.]

Is it fine to assume that Boron's role is town? Seems like negative utility for scum, since they don't have a good control over the role

Unless its occurrence is anonymous.

If the role didn't have a restriction it would basically be a normal governor, which is OP if scum. At least this way scum have to pick a big wagon.

Well now that I think about it it's still a really powerful role for scum to have. It's just that the timing of the claim is weird, like she only did it because people were talking about vigs. I'm gonna take another look at it now.

[BT.]

Oh, that's what you meant? I'm not sure, but from the way SB described it I think my dayvig takes the place of the lynch. I can ask when he gets back on, though.

If Boron knew it took the place of the lynch, why offer to use it at all? It's Weird, unless she wanted to fakeclaim it and that was an opportune time. Or wanted to claim it when it was relevant.. but it isn't, because it takes the place of the lynch. It's poorly thought-out.

[Bluedoom]

Tbf though, she did assume her role was a vig, and since a few people had talked about vigshots, the claim kinda makes sense.

[BT.]

Tbf though, she did assume her role was a vig, and since a few people had talked about vigshots, the claim kinda makes sense.

Now I think I'm being dumb. You know what, I'll wait for her response, because depending on whether she thought it was a vig alongside the lynch or replacing it changes a lot of things.

[Shin]

Is it fine to assume that Boron's role is town? Seems like negative utility for scum, since they don't have a good control over the role

Unless its occurrence is anonymous.

I think it could really go either way, although it seems strange to announce it as scum.

I'm not quite sure what to make about the case on Boron. Like, it's not like BT has said anything that's a logical leap, but I don't feel the strength of it over the Manix section underneath. A lot of people have been casing Manix and Crysta, what makes Boron stand out more?

Crysta, now that the Blitz slot LIVES, feel free to let me know how you feel.

[Refa]

I fell asleep, whoops. Anyways, I have four pages to read/reply too so I'm only going to reply to posts that I feel are relevant. If you want my opinion on one of the earlier posts, just ask jeez.

##Vote: Manix
@Manix: Please cite sources for Marf being self-conscious. like yeah he's responding to people who are voting him but it's balanced out with scumhunting so I don't see how it's any scummier than you posting excuses when called out because BBM found you lazy. this seems like the trap where somebody gets voted early D1 and people needle them for responding to the votes and given that you've been lynched for this before I'd expect you to know better as town. if it's something about Marf's tone then I'm not seeing it.

@Italicized- Wait, what does this mean? The rest of your cases are very sheepable (except the eclipse one, townreading her more for her tone and content) but not this one.

I felt like all his votes were just pushing along towards whatever was popular at the time (mostly the Blitz and Gaius votes), and it was difficult to get a good idea of what he was thinking. Feels too much like he is trying to be weasely about his opinions because he doesn't have real ones

Oh, fair enough. I can remember who he was scumreading at the time (Marth, BBM) but not his thought process there which kind of just proves your point. He called them out on specific issues but it never felt like he was analyzing their content as a whole.

@Manix- I get that your LG vote was consolidation, but you literally picked one point on him and said "yep, that's scum" which is my issue. Also your Iris case bothers me because like...what else would you expect her to talk about at the time? What do you think about her inactivity (mentioning that she'll post less and not posting for upwards of 48 hours are two different things altogether)?

Okay, so I fucked up and Crysta is actually town sue me. Firstly, I agree with whoever (Marth?) said that she's never wall posted as scum before but she's not town because it's a wallpost, but moreso because the reads in it flow from her earlier content (or at least what I can remember of it, I'm not going to do ISO's lol). That being said, I'm going to reply to her reads anyways because some read as scummy in a vacuum which still bothers me despite my overall read on her.

Eclipse: What's wrong with her RVS shitposting (especially since she said it was role related and you seem to be townreading her for it). Actually wait, I don't like this read overall. You admit that she's playing to her town meta but then write it off as "but she may just be using that to her advantage" which seems...bad. Really don't see why Eclipse isn't just a town read considering your only issue with her is a one off reply that she made.
Manix: Context is everything, though. When he said that he was being held to stupidly high standards, it was right after RVS when there was nothing to talk about. I dunno, this read just rubs me the wrong way too. Like...it doesn't feel complete, it feels like you cut out the last paragraph of a longer read. What do you think about his cases?
Paperblade: What do you think about his Manix case? You mentioned that you agreed with one point above but didn't really mention how it reflected on Paperblade.
Refa: NGL, I'm not sure what you're talking about WRT the first part of this but my reply to Strawman was being more confused that he didn't vote me considering that it'd be better to pressure a scumread over an empty unvote. Obviously voting me isn't something he should be doing because I'm the best.
Shin: Yeah, this line ("I was being more observant than proactive and listening more to what people had to say because I wasn’t confident in my reads and I’m still struggling tbh. I did know scum outside of Blitz had to exist but I really have no fucking idea who it is.") is the main reason I'm townreading you despite having several issues with your scumreads because it seemed genuine af and I can relate to not being able to scumread people (not in this game but it's happened). Uh...speaking of scumreads though, I don't think I get your scumread on him. Is it solely because you think his case on you was scummy or was there anything else because I'm having a hard time parsing that.

Read strawman's ISO. Tbh, we should vig/turbo him. His refa scumread feels really outta place, idk. I didn't feel like refa's questioning was aggressive and it seemed sensible given the context of the game at that time. Also inactivity is this guy's biggest scum tell, not even joking.

What did you think about his tone? I remember talking to you about Strawman's general play when we were hydraing (HEIL HYDRA) in that one game and you said that he generally was extremely waffly and posting one liners a lot as scum. That didn't really match up with his play here, which was part of the reason I felt good about him to begin with. Also what do you think about him not voting me later on (my only real issue with his slot)?

Ngl I keep rereading the thread and I really can't find anyone as scummy as Manix, that d1 was terrible. Crysta's play is quite different from her play in SS mafia but her reads don't make sense to me.

I basically have the same thoughts WRT both. OVERALL, I'd say that Crysta is town though because her tone reads as someone who's frustrated that they can't produce decent scumreads (which is too real for me) despite my issues with her play.

@Prims What do you think about Crysta's wallpost? Feels like you ignored it or just didn't mention it for whatever reason which is KIND OF IMPORTANT because that's the reason I'm townreading Crysta in the first place (actually, screw Crysta's wall post, what do you think about my read on her).

@Shin Same question that I asked Prims. Like, I think you made a great point on Crysta yesterday but her content today explains why she acted that way to begin with.

@BT Mostly fine with your posts, but I have A COMPLAINT. What makes Boron scummier than Manix? Your Manix case was way more in depth and convincing, which makes it seem like you're just voting Boron to be a hipster.

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

In addition to what I already said, I'd sheep Prims' response to his Shin vote. Don't really have a definitive read on Shin myself but it felt like it was pushing the circumstances of Shin's votes more than the content itself (scum intent can be found in both but you can't just ignore one).

And that's all she wrote. I probably need to take another look at Shin, Crysta (apparently her play is SIMILAR to Sacred Stoners but I wasn't in that game so I'm not sure), and Boron (and need replies from Marthipan WRT Strawman) but I'm way too exhausted from writing this post to do that at the moment.

[Refa]

I'm not quite sure what to make about the case on Boron. Like, it's not like BT has said anything that's a logical leap, but I don't feel the strength of it over the Manix section underneath. A lot of people have been casing Manix and Crysta, what makes Boron stand out more?

Wow, Shin TOTALLY COPIED my issue with BT.

[Refa]

lynch dis hack tbh