"Plot armour"

[Raven]

I think there is no such thing. The most recent chapter of a certain popular manga series spurred these thoughts into my head.

My reasoning is essentially this:

A story usually begins and ends with the main character/s. Why would the plot revolve around people who won't make it to the end so we, the viewers, won't see the result of their efforts?

In some programs/animes/mangas/whatever where characters can be killed, there would be no point in trying to watch something where the main character would die and was replaced by a new "main" character only for the process to repeat over and over. Most of these things try to build up a connection between the viewer and the main character/s, and this would be totally pointless if they were changed every couple of episodes/chapters.

From the very beginning, the creator/storywriter of the thing will (in most cases) know - or at least have a faint idea of - which of their characters will make it to the end and who won't. Thus the story direction will revolve around those who continue to survive by whatever means and ultimately make it to the end. I think it's completely logical, and I also think people throw "plot armour" around far too lightly when the focus on the main characters because they will make it very far is more often than not the actual reason for their survival.

Of course there are many stories, books, etc. where the main character will meet his end, but it's usually one of the last things that happen. We may also see someone else take the place of the main character (whether they're still alie or have died) to boot up a new season, series, or a completely new storyline. Sometimes the story will have finished and the objectives of the main character/s are fulfilled, even after their death, so there would be no need to replace them with a new main character.

What do you think? Do I make some sort of sense or do you think I'm talking a crapload of shit? Let me hear your thoughts, prefferrably with marked spoilers if you plan on giving examples.

[Moblin Major General]

Plot Armor refers to when a character survives an impossible circumstance in a narrative because the writer says so. I'm starting to read A Song of Ice and Fire, which has no plot armor or has plot wet tissue paper. Other things, especially self-insert video games, give your character plot armor thicker than an Abrams tank, especially in Mass Effect.

[Nym]

Also when the bad guy does something stupid instead of killing the main character.

[Glaceo]

Plot armor: Term used by fans meaning Corrin's outfit. (that's why it's so retarded!)

[blah the Prussian]

Plot Armor refers to when a character survives an impossible circumstance in a narrative because the writer says so. I'm starting to read A Song of Ice and Fire, which has no plot armor or has plot wet tissue paper. Other things, especially self-insert video games, give your character plot armor thicker than an Abrams tank, especially in Mass Effect.

This, basically. It's fine if a writer goes a whole story without the main character dying, but plot armour refers to situations where it's extremely implausible or outright impossible that they survive but they survive anyway, either due to something stupid or die to (and this is the worst) the villains being unrealistically stupid.

[solrocknroll]

I love plot armor because I hate character deaths more than anything else in fiction. If plot armor means they live longer, then I'm all for it.

Plot armor: Term used by fans meaning Corrin's outfit. (that's why it's so retarded!)

Corrin outfit is super cool dude. Especially female Corrin. Everything about Corrin is cool and stylish. If anything, someone like Ike with bad armor would have "plot armor"

Also, that last term is a really terrible thing to use so maybe don't do that?

[blah the Prussian]

I love plot armor because I hate character deaths more than anything else in fiction. If plot armor means they live longer, then I'm all for it.

Corrin outfit is super cool dude. Especially female Corrin. Everything about Corrin is cool and stylish. If anything, someone like Ike with bad armor would have "plot armor"

Also, that last term is a really terrible thing to use so maybe don't do that?

If the writer doesn't want character deaths they shouldn't put them in situations where it would be almost impossible for them to live. It's really quite simple. Plot armour is like the writer cheating; taking the easy way out rather than actually having their story be logical.

[DragonLord]

It's fine if the main character lives to the end, but the author shouldn't put them through near death scenarios countless times only to have them survive. It just makes the writing seem weaker. There should be plausible explanations if they do survive however.

Edited June 9, 2016 by DragonLord

[MCProductions]

Plot armor is dumb

Characters like the Black Knight, who are literally wearing armor that could easily be classified as plot armor is more dumb.

It's fine if the main character lives to the end, but the author shouldn't put them through near death scenarios countless times only to have them survive. It just makes the writing seem weaker. There should be plausible explanations if they do survive however.

This basically.

[DragonLord]

I'd say a near death experience done right would be in the anime Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Gonna spoiler this one.

During his fight against Kimblee, Edward Elric (the protagonist) is impaled when the building collapses. After saving his former enemies from death, they assist him by removing the beam from his body. I love the way this whole scene is handled, as he doesn't just magically survive the ordeal like most plot armour dicates. He explains that by sealing the wound with this alchemy, he would be sacrificing many years of his lifespan. We actually get a plausible reason as to why he is able to survive this scenario, and there are real consequences as a result.

Edited June 9, 2016 by DragonLord

[NekoKnight]

Plot armor is relative. If most characters survive/can be expected to survive, there won't be many accusations of plot armor. If death/defeat is a common reality, those who defy logic by surviving are going to stand out more. A good narrative will punish characters for their mistakes, or if they don't want to punish them, don't have them make mistakes.

[OakTree]

While i do believe that there are a lot of cases of the term being misused, i don't think that such a thing doesn't exist, plot armour is just one of the many things that fall under the category of "Plot Contrivancies", which is when a story ruins any suspension of disbelief in order to have an specific event occur.

[Thinks Their Own Way]

I might know what manga series your talking about.

[Raven]

I might know what manga series your talking about.

Crispy.

[Rapier]

Plot Armor refers to when a character survives an impossible circumstance in a narrative because the writer says so. I'm starting to read A Song of Ice and Fire, which has no plot armor or has plot wet tissue paper. Other things, especially self-insert video games, give your character plot armor thicker than an Abrams tank, especially in Mass Effect.

On GOT's case, I'm not sure if there is no such a thing as plot armor or if we just misguided about who the main characters (using this word as "characters that are pivotal to the story, like Frodo and Luke Skywalker") are. I think there is plot armor even on GOT; if all of the protagonists (using this word as "people who show in the POV and seem to be relevant") died, I doubt GOT would have enough legs to stand on, so it needs to keep certain people alive. GRRM just knows how to trick the audience into thinking a certain character is a main when they're not*. It's my guess.

* Such as Ned and Robb.

Tyrion seems to survive the worst odds, and so does Dany. Jon died and resurrected. I do think they have plot armor to an extent. Old pieces are being foils, giving new pieces space and contributing to the big picture. Maybe we're just oblivious to it.

I don't really have an issue with plot armor, so long as the writer gives me a compelling argument to believe why character X hasn't died or suffered somehow. So long as it maintains coherence, it's fine. The finality of a story is to tell me a good tale, not "hurr durr subvert all the cliches look how original I am!!" me into boredom.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Rapier

[Excellen Browning]

You know, when I saw "plot armour" and then saw raven made the thread, I thought it would be about armor bikinis and other scarcely clad but "armoured" ladies because plot demands it.

Somehow, I think the truth is worse.

[NekoKnight]

On GOT's case, I'm not sure if there is no such a thing as plot armor or if we just misguided about who the main characters (using this word as "characters that are pivotal to the story, like Frodo and Luke Skywalker") are. I think there is plot armor even on GOT; if all of the protagonists (using this word as "people who show in the POV and seem to be relevant") died, I doubt GOT would have enough legs to stand on, so it needs to keep certain people alive. GRRM just knows how to trick the audience into thinking a certain character is a main when they're not*. It's my guess.

* Such as Ned and Robb.

Tyrion seems to survive the worst odds, and so does Dany. Jon died and resurrected. I do think they have plot armor to an extent. Old pieces are being foils, giving new pieces space and contributing to the big picture. Maybe we're just oblivious to it.

I don't really have an issue with plot armor, so long as the writer gives me a compelling argument to believe why character X hasn't died or suffered somehow. So long as it maintains coherence, it's fine. The finality of a story is to tell me a good tale, not "hurr durr subvert all the cliches look how original I am!!" me into boredom.

[spoiler=GoT]

While I would say SOME characters have plot armor, (Dany and Ramsey stand out), I wouldn't say Tyrion or Jon do. Both characters survive but they have to use all their wits and they suffer a lot to hold onto life. Plot armor is more akin to contrived circumstances that prevent a character from failing.

[Shadow Mir]

On the subject of plot armour, while it doesn't actually involve death, the first thing I thought about was Mai's duel with Marik in season 2 of Yu-Gi-Oh! - Marik spends pretty much the whole duel losing, but ultimately manages to win.

[Enaluxeme]

Well pretty much all duels are like this in animes about card games...

[Rapier]

[spoiler=GoT]

While I would say SOME characters have plot armor, (Dany and Ramsey stand out), I wouldn't say Tyrion or Jon do. Both characters survive but they have to use all their wits and they suffer a lot to hold onto life. Plot armor is more akin to contrived circumstances that prevent a character from failing.

[spoiler=GOT]

From what I know, Ramsay is only a plot armor wearer on the show (he invades Stannis' camp with no shirt during winter like a Kratos while undermanned, goes on killing soldiers as if he was a Diablo main character and survives, ffs. I know it was an ambush, but it shouldn't have been so easy. He was much far from being this strong in the books). He doesn't have the same luck in the books

[spoiler=Book 2](the stunt he pulled on Theon on Book 2 was cleverness mixed with Theon's own stupidity. If it weren't for him, Ramsay would've died either by execution or being trapped on Winterfell's prison forever).

Anyway...

Jon's ass is saved from the Wildlings on Book 3 end by a convenient Stannis landing near him, guided by Melisandre to fulfill a prophecy. Jon is resurrected by magic. Jon is heavily implied to be Azor Ahai by Melisandre's visions. He did not survive death or survive against the Wildling invasion with his own wits. I'd say he is a main character and I'm betting that, if he ever dies, it'll be one of the last relevant deaths on the whole series.

Dany had to use her wits and suffer a lot on life to get where she is right now, but sometimes I feel like she has a four leaf clover on her pocket.

[spoiler=Book 5]Especially on Book 5, where there are plenty of sources trying to kill her and failing by sheer luck (Strong Belwas being poisoned by food intended to be given to her, Dany walking near sick people infected with a very contagious disease and being perfectly fine afterwads, and probably some others that I forgot right now).

Also, I've remembered how plot armor/absurd luck is almost a literal thing on Wheel of Time. They even have an in-universe word for main character they use to justify when something goes horribly right (or wrong) for the main characters. People just shrug off and say "Ta'veren" whenever this stuff happens. Robert Jordan is a hypocrite for saying characters should suffer the consequences of their actions instead of being saved by absurd plot convenience, enforcing this rule on the tabletop RPGs he played with his children (according to what he wrote on the Wheel of Time tabletop RPG thing) but ignoring this rule altogether on his books.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Rapier