Attack on gay nightclub in Orlando leaves 50 dead.

[solrocknroll]

Yes, and then he said, "I don't want congrats." Read the entire tweet, please.

Look, like I said, he needs to work on his mouth. But this does not at all mean that he intends to insult anyone. And he's saying he's glad that he's right because he wants people to be woken the fuck up to reality and realize what's wrong with the world.

He's wrong then. This and so many other tragedies are horrible, but the world is still a beautiful place. Just looks at all of the vigils and the blood drives and the flag bearing and the togetherness. Just because people do bad things, that doesn't mean that everything is wrong with the world because there will always be those who are there to help. The worst times are when the world shows its best sides.

[Rezzy]

I dunno, he condemned his son as mentally ill and non-religious.

I see. Is there a link to the father's statement? I suppose he could also think of his son as a disgrace to the family, depending on their relationship. When these things happen, the parents are seldom neutral, either supportive and/or in denial, or condemning and ashamed.

[Anacybele]

He's wrong then. This and so many other tragedies are horrible, but the world is still a beautiful place. Just looks at all of the vigils and the blood drives and the flag bearing and the togetherness. Just because people do bad things, that doesn't mean that everything is wrong with the world because there will always be those who are there to help. The worst times are when the world shows its best sides.

...What?

Seriously, what? You just completely twisted what I said. I didn't say EVERYTHING is wrong with the world. I'm saying (and Trump as well) that there are a few serious things wrong. The number of shootings/mass shootings has increased in recent times. I hear more about them than I ever did before these days. Hatred of people because of their race or lifestyle or religion is still abundant. And so on.

Did you know Trump has the majority of the Muslim vote? I bet you can guess why. (hint: it has to do with the bad Muslims giving the good ones a bad rep)

[blah the Prussian]

EDIT:You DO realize that Daesh's main target. . .is other Muslims, right?

Yes. I don't know when I implied against that. All I was saying was that he did appear to be inspired by Daesh. I'm not bashing Muslims; I understand full well that the vast majority of them aren't terrorists. Just wanted to make that clear.

Edit: based on the info others have put up, it's possible he swore alliegance to Daesh more out of being edgy/common hatred of gays, than actual subscription to Fundamentalist Islam.

Edited June 12, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Rapier]

Murdering for a religious motive does not mean that all people who are part of said religions adhere to the same reasoning that the murderer did. Even if there is a saying in a holy book that can be considered homophobe, it does not prove that people from that religion do exactly as it says on the tin on practice. Unless there can be a study showing how muslims in general are being homophobic in America, with proper graphics and numbers, that is a hasty generalization made by smug people who can't even use logic and facts to back up their asinine discourse. Neocons are worse than SJWs ffs

May the victims rest in peace.

[Moblin Major General]

He's wrong then. This and so many other tragedies are horrible, but the world is still a beautiful place. Just looks at all of the vigils and the blood drives and the flag bearing and the togetherness. Just because people do bad things, that doesn't mean that everything is wrong with the world because there will always be those who are there to help. The worst times are when the world shows its best sides.

How deluded are you? It wouldn't surprise me at all if you weren't religious purely because of this statement. Random acts of kindness don't outweigh the evil this world champions. I support LGBT rights, but I also pray for them because of how apart God is from Man. I accept the world for what it is and give it what God tells me to, but I have seen the writing on the wall. Everything right now sucks, and frankly that's a good thing.

[blah the Prussian]

Have to agree with Rommel here. To say that the world is mostly good is naive. There are a bunch of fucked up problems without easy answers facing us, and I don't claim to know what to do about most of them. This isn't because individual people suck, though. The culprit is mob mentality.

[Rapier]

Have to agree with Rommel here. To say that the world is mostly good is naive. There are a bunch of fucked up problems without easy answers facing us, and I don't claim to know what to do about most of them. This isn't because individual people suck, though. The culprit is mob mentality.

The world IS mostly good*. It is much better than before, despite it not being perfect. Compare our history to any other historical period with humans and I doubt you'll find a better one than this. Less poverty, less discrimination, better life spectation, less violence, more rights consciousness etc. There is a whole book about this, The Better Angels of Our Nature (which I haven't read, but read about a long time ago).

*"Mostly good" might have been an exaggeration. I guess saying it is more decent than ever and better than people give it credit is a better way to put it.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Rapier

[blah the Prussian]

The world IS mostly good. It is much better than before, despite it not being perfect. Less poverty, less discrimination, better life spectation, less violence, more rights consciousness etc. There is a whole book about this, The Better Angels of Our Nature (which I haven't read, but read about a long time ago).

The world is getting better, to be sure, but it's been getting better in the easy problems. What do you do about LGBT rights? Sign a law allowing them to get married, simple as that. What do you do when an asshole like this guy murders 50 of them, and immediately people like Trump rant more about Muslims, and the NRA is making up some dumb excuse, and Congress is too paralyzed to do anything? That's much harder.

[Hardin]

This is a terrible tragedy that struck a city already reeling from senseless violence earlier this week. Hopefully some political will to implement strong gun control will come out of this.

[Rapier]

The world is getting better, to be sure, but it's been getting better in the easy problems. What do you do about LGBT rights? Sign a law allowing them to get married, simple as that. What do you do when an asshole like this guy murders 50 of them, and immediately people like Trump rant more about Muslims, and the NRA is making up some dumb excuse, and Congress is too paralyzed to do anything? That's much harder.

An occurence (or a few more) can not be used to refute a wide data (unfortunately I can't offer anything but the link to that book as evidence, as I lack other sources). In general we're living in a time with a much lesser homicide rate, less poverty, more social consciousness, less prejudice, less ideological persecution, more education, more life expectancy etc. Of course our world still has problems, and some very serious problems to boot, but life is undeniably much better and generally good.

[blah the Prussian]

An occurence (or a few more) can not be used to refute a wide data (unfortunately I can't offer anything but the link to that book as evidence, as I lack other sources). In general we're living in a time with a much lesser homicide rate, less poverty, more social consciousness, less prejudice, less ideological persecution, more education, more life expectancy etc. Of course our world still has problems, and some very serious problems to boot, but life is undeniably much better and generally good.

The world being better than it used to be doesn't make it good, and the core problems facing the world since the end of WWII essentially all remain. I guess I'm looking big picture and you're looking slightly less big picture.

Edit: to be clear here, I am referring to geopolitical problems, eg Israel vs Palestine, the conflicts in the Middle East, India vs Pakistan, former Yugoslavia, etc.

Edited June 12, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[eclipse]

How deluded are you? It wouldn't surprise me at all if you weren't religious purely because of this statement. Random acts of kindness don't outweigh the evil this world champions. I support LGBT rights, but I also pray for them because of how apart God is from Man. I accept the world for what it is and give it what God tells me to, but I have seen the writing on the wall. Everything right now sucks, and frankly that's a good thing.

Have to agree with Rommel here. To say that the world is mostly good is naive. There are a bunch of fucked up problems without easy answers facing us, and I don't claim to know what to do about most of them. This isn't because individual people suck, though. The culprit is mob mentality.

WHAT THE FUCK THE SECOND.

First, everything does NOT suck. I haven't been forced into a marriage, will be taken seriously if I report a crime, can vote, have access to relatively clean food and water, and have a roof over my head. A LOT of other people can say the same thing as me. If I want to take this further, I can speak out against the government without having to worry about negative consequences from the government. Right now, I'm addressing something you wrote (both of you), and you're thousands of miles away from me. Fifty years ago, I wouldn't have been able to respond like this. Before this incident, it appears that The Pulse was a pretty busy night club that catered to the LGBT crowd - and given the number of people, they didn't have to worry about being arrested/killed just for being there.

Things are slowly getting better, not worse.

[Comet]

there's nothing wrong with Islam. it is wrong to kill people and that should be addressed rather than whining about the fact that it hasn't been addressed yet. if you would rather complain, go ahead, but it won't accomplish anything.

ana:

trump's tweet is completely stupid but politicalky smart by trump. it was stupid since he said he appreciated the congrats, but also doesn't want them. by making extreme statements like that, he gets ATTENTION (key word) and therefore votes. it's why he's come so far in the presidential race. he's controversy incarnate but a large number of people in America don't bother to get research from legitimate sources (not Fox News) so he gets supported.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Comet

[blah the Prussian]

WHAT THE FUCK THE SECOND.First, everything does NOT suck. I haven't been forced into a marriage, will be taken seriously if I report a crime, can vote, have access to relatively clean food and water, and have a roof over my head. A LOT of other people can say the same thing as me. If I want to take this further, I can speak out against the government without having to worry about negative consequences from the government. Right now, I'm addressing something you wrote (both of you), and you're thousands of miles away from me. Fifty years ago, I wouldn't have been able to respond like this. Before this incident, it appears that The Pulse was a pretty busy night club that catered to the LGBT crowd - and given the number of people, they didn't have to worry about being arrested/killed just for being there.Things are slowly getting better, not worse.

I wasn't disputing that things were slowly getting better. But the same conflicts that were killing people 50 years ago are still killing people today, and are joined by new ones. Anyway, this has gotten off topic and I need to go to bed, so let's leave it at that.

[Rapier]

The world being better than it used to be doesn't make it good, and the core problems facing the world since the end of WWII essentially all remain. I guess I'm looking big picture and you're looking slightly less big picture.

Edit: to be clear here, I am referring to geopolitical problems, eg Israel vs Palestine, the conflicts in the Middle East, India vs Pakistan, former Yugoslavia, etc.

I'm looking at overall life quality while you're looking at humanity's isolated problems and saying that because we're still dealing with tough stuff the world sucks. From the overall better life quality data I conclude the world doesn't suck (which is different from being all rainbows, its opposite extreme) and that the crapsack world vision is mostly blurred about the many good things that outweight the bad. If you'd put those together, to which side would the scale tip?

(at this point I'm agreeing to disagree to not derrail the topic any further, but answer honestly)

Edited June 12, 2016 by Rapier

[Person123]

Apparently Omar's father had voiced support for the Afghan Taliban in the past. I certainly wouldn't trust anything he says in defense of his son's actions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

The fact that the attacker was investigated by the FBI twice in the past sticks out to me.

As quoted from NBC:

"In 2013, Mateen was interviewed twice by federal agents after coworkers reported that he made "inflammatory" comments to them about radical Islamic propaganda. The following year, the FBI looked at him again because of ties with an American who traveled to the Middle East to become a suicide bomber."

"Law enforcement sources told NBC News he swore allegiance to the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, in a phone call to 911 moments before the rampage at the Pulse Nightclub."

Seems like a radical Islamic terrorist attack to me.

[EricaofRenais]

My heart is really hurting for the families of the people that died or were injured, even more so since my big sis is part of the LGBT+ community.

[eclipse]

Apparently Omar's father had voiced support for the Afghan Taliban in the past. I certainly wouldn't trust anything he says in defense of his son's actions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

The fact that the attacker was investigated by the FBI twice in the past sticks out to me.

As quoted from NBC:

"In 2013, Mateen was interviewed twice by federal agents after coworkers reported that he made "inflammatory" comments to them about radical Islamic propaganda. The following year, the FBI looked at him again because of ties with an American who traveled to the Middle East to become a suicide bomber."

"Law enforcement sources told NBC News he swore allegiance to the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, in a phone call to 911 moments before the rampage at the Pulse Nightclub."

Seems like a radical Islamic terrorist attack to me.

So if the shooter's dad once supported the Taliban (who didn't care for the US), why would he want to paint is as "not a terror attack"?

Unless he's that afraid of being detained and interrogated by the FBI. Which reminds me, the FBI had best not fuck up this shooter's phone.

Edited June 12, 2016 by eclipse
QUOTE TAGS, WHY YOU DO THIS?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

the FBI had best not fuck up this shooter's phone.

like they did during that other shooting with similar connections?

oh man that made me a steamed potato unlike any other.

[Person123]

So if the shooter's dad once supported the Taliban (who didn't care for the US), why would he want to paint is as "not a terror attack"?

Unless he's that afraid of being detained and interrogated by the FBI. Which reminds me, the FBI had best not fuck up this shooter's phone.

Could be trying to deflect the blame. It's plausible that he's looking out for his own well being, naturally the shooter's family would be looked at after what he did, and the dad making past statements in support of the Taliban would reflect pretty poorly on him, given the circumstances of the attack.

He could very well just be in denial too. Could be any number of reasons. The main point I wanted to make is that I wouldn't take the Father's words at face value.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Could be trying to deflect the blame. It's plausible that he's looking out for his own well being, naturally the shooter's family would be looked at after what he did, and the dad making past statements in support of the Taliban would reflect pretty poorly on him, given the circumstances of the attack.

He could very well just be in denial too. Could be any number of reasons. The main point I wanted to make is that I wouldn't take the Father's words at face value.

i think thats fair enough.

to be honest i don't take my own father at face value either, but for different reasons.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

This is outrageous and upsetting. I am in shock that this happened. My heart goes out to the families who lost love ones through this.

Admittedly, I am also a bit scared to go to the gay nightclub that is near where I live.

I also think it doesn't matter who it is that did this crime or what their background and reasons were. Murdering is wrong regardless

[The DanMan]

Murder is murder. My condolences.

[Water Mage]

So a little more about the guy:

According to his ex-wife, the man wasn't very religious, but after the divorce, he started to become more religious.

And about the guy's father:

Apparently he used to host a TV show, is a political figure and is currently running to be Afghanistan's president.