Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over (Won the Lawsuit!)

[Elieson]

Unofficial Votals?

Riptor (2): GP, kirsche

Rainbow/Proto (2): Quote, JB

Elieson (2): Refa, SB

Eurykins (1): Elieson

Sad kirsche (1): Riptor

SB (1): Proto

3 hours and 20 minutes.

@Refa

[Refa]

Out of all of those people (you, Riptor, Proto), I'd be most inclined to vote for Proto as of now. Talked about you enough but from what I skimmed of Riptor, he just seemed to be like "LYNCHING KIRSCHE IS THE OPTIMAL MOVE" and stuck to his position despite complaining about it. Don't agree with the position, but I've seen townies who've done similar stuff before. Still reading.

[Refa]

Whoops, meant people with two votes. Still need to read through the people with only one vote.

[Percivalé]

ughhh so many walls

I have. 3 townreads. and a possible scumread. sorry about yesterday I fell asleep I feel like shit. I'm gonna be stuck on mobile all day too and since I really want to contribute you're gonna have to deal with shorter posts today which I hate doing but I'm falling behind already and there's 3 hours until phase end ughhh.

I still like my vote on Proto but hold on I'm gonna read an iso really quick and see if my hunch holds water

[Percivalé]

I disagree with Riptor but I don't think he's scum. There's a huge playstyle difference here I think, but I wouldn't say lynching the miller is the "optimal move" unless we really have NOTHING else to go on, like, AT ALL. and it feels like this gets repeated a lot and ends up in a town lynch anyway

I thought I had a gutread on jb because he feels forgettable but reading through his iso just made me want to keep my vote on Proto. That "I'm considering voting Riptor for being unproductive" is a HUGE red flag thing I've noticed scum do a lot, unproductive =/= scum but it's easy to make it sound like you're doing the best for town by targeting the town's "weakest links" rather than who you think is scum

[charlie_]

If you think kirsche's first post wasn't a scumslip, why would he back himself into a corner when he's fully aware of what he's saying and that it conflicted with the rules? There's no reason for scum!kirsche to make that play if he isn't confident that we were reading the rules wrongly, and in that case it isn't a scumslip by this point. That's why I have a hard time buying your vote.

@JB: what I'm saying is that Proto's response made more sense coming from mafia. Based on what we thought the rules meant, there was no way that anyone could think kirsche was actually a town miller. This means that he would be lying, regardless of alignment, although he would be more likely to be mafia lying about it.

Since scum!Proto would know what kirsche's alignment was (mafia or notmafia) it would make sense for him to stay away from the wagon to avoid backlash after it was revealed to be wrong. Proto clearly assumed that kirsche was lying about being a miller in the first place since he voted for him.

The tl;dr of it though what Proto said doesn't actually make sense for a townie.

I did kind of fuck up though because I thought I'd explained something better when I hadn't:

I still want Proto to say why he thought kirsche was joking. It feels kind of like he just said that because he wanted to look good by being right and staying away from a potential rvs wagon.

This is what I was referring to in my last reply but the above reasoning in this post basically leads to this. Scum Proto would probably assume that he's kirsche was a lying townie for whatever reason and not being associated with trainwreck wagons is always in scum's interest.

Still kind of busy but I'll be back for phase end.

[Elieson]

Since scum!Proto would know what kirsche's alignment was (mafia or notmafia) it would make sense for him to stay away from the wagon to avoid backlash after it was revealed to be wrong. Proto clearly assumed that kirsche was lying about being a miller in the first place since he voted for him.

I genuinely don't get this

[Percivalé]

Although there was one thing Riptor said that I didn't like and it was his remark that anyone who finds nothing wrong with the miller claim is "fishy" which feels like fearmongering and an easy thing to base your reads off of esp off something that can be attributed to playstyle and other metagame and I thought that was scummy

[Refa]

Town
Green Poet- Don't see scum voting someone they know to be town (AKA Kirsche), or even worse a scumbuddy, over a rule discrepancy they know to be false/damning.

Kirsche- Liked his responses to me and SB. To answer your question, yeah I'm not sure if I was going after Elie because he had scum intent or because I felt like he was misrepping me at this point. Also his post after his Ken response read as genuinely frustrated about the game has been hung up on his role for so long.

SB- Just feels like he's actually paying attention to his reads and not throwing them out when he makes them but corrects them like 2 minutes later. Not as confident about this just because I'm bad at reading SB, but yeah.

JB- GUT READ TOO STRONG

Null/Scum

Reread Elieson and I'm not sure anymore. At the time, his logic didn't make sense coming from a townie's perspective to me, but I'm not sure his thought process would be like that as scum either (ITP confirmed). I need more from him that doesn't have to do with his Kirsche read to get a better read. I'm fine with his followups to his issues with Kirsche.

IF YOU SKIP MOST OF MY POST JUST READ THIS CASE
Not sure why other people are voting Proto but what bothers me about his Kirsche reaction is he went from "Kirsche joked" to "okay, I guess Kirsche scumslipped" after Kirsche said that his Miller claim wasn't a joke despite that having absolutely no benefit as scum (if he slipped, why would he admit it instead of backing out?). Also maybe nitpicky, but I don't like how he decided to drop his Kirsche vote instead of deciding to vote SB over Kirsche, if that makes any sense (look, just read this post). Feels planned out, which makes sense for him to do as scum considering he was getting flake for it. His response to SB's vote on him is good but I think he missed the "And if I were scum, d) I thought it was a joke because I knew Kirsche was not aligned with me and GP, another not scum,'s point was valid to me". Also this "Last time I checked, the rules were publicly displayed to all players, not just scum, so I couldn't have "known" that it was a joke any more than other Townies could have "known".") bothers me, not because of the logic which is fine but because of the wording? I dunno.

This isn't part of my scumread on Proto but I don't like how he called Riptor's vote terrible w/o providing a read on him. Come on, man, that's unproductive and it just discourages Riptor from posting if he is town.

Actually what bothers me the most about Proto saying that he thought Kirsche was joking would be that it'd provide an out for Kirsche if he was scum. Why would you do that????

OKAY COOL YOU'RE DONE

READ THIS TOO ACTUALLY

What I don't like most so far is how Eury made some good point as to why she thought Elie was scum but refrained from voting him because he was getting enough attention as is. If she had another vote, sure that would be a perfectly fine reason, but as is it just comes across as her avoiding the biggest wagon. Most of her first wall post was good (as in, I'd be townreading her if she voted Elie at the end of this) but this is not. Second post has the same issue but expanded to Riptor as well (and this is even more damning because noone was voting Riptor at the time).

Also BTW for future days, if Eury/Kirsche flip scum I'd look at the other because I don't like how Eury talks about Kirsche a lot w/o expressing any opinions on him.

OKAY COOL YOU'RE ACTUALLY DONE

Wouldn't be surprised if Dragonflare7 was scum TBH considering Poly always subs out w/o saying anything as scum.

Refa, no witty screenshots or pics yet? Now that's how I know you're scum

Too lazy, sorry.

HEY RIPTOR/KEN

I don't have any issues with your Kirsche case and I can get that you're annoyed at people constantly berating you for it but do you have any other thoughts on the game? Thanks in advance.

[Refa]

##Unvote

##Vote: Proto

[charlie_]

I genuinely don't get this

from our pov kirsche had to be lying about being a miller

if you are town, the logical assumption is that the liar is mafia

if you are mafia, you already know whether or not they're mafia

in the case of town!kirsche, scum!proto might try and avoid the wagon at first to distance himself from it whereas town is more likely to think that kirsche is suspicious and vote him

[Zkirsche]

Kirsche, if you refer to this as "your previous questions", then I have to say, no wonder I never responded, after all, I'm just applying your ways

Great deflection mate 10/10 except the only reason I keep having to explain this all is because you fail to read posts :^ ) Answer my questions please. Heck it may help stop people misrepping your arguments by saying the miller claim is the only reason you're voting me.

Would also sheep Elie's Eury vote for not voting anyone.

Kirsche, if you refer to this as "your previous questions", then I have to say, no wonder I never responded, after all, I'm just applying your ways

[Zkirsche]

Would be happy to turbo Eury and I guess Proto but I'm not sure about Proto anymore tbh.

[Refa]

Kirsche, if you refer to this as "your previous questions", then I have to say, no wonder I never responded, after all, I'm just applying your ways

Stop ignoring yourself!

[Refa]

Would be happy to turbo Eury and I guess Proto but I'm not sure about Proto anymore tbh.

Can you explain why?

[Zkirsche]

If Proto is scum I have the worst interactions with him lmao.

[Zkirsche]

I fucking hate quotes.

Can you explain why?

Why to which? Why I'd vote Eury or why I'm not sold on Proto?

[Zkirsche]

Stop ignoring yourself!

Wait What I quoted it fine for once!

[Refa]

^^Why you're not sold on Proto considering the last thing you said was that you weren't bothered by him. I know why you'd vote Eury.

I don't really get that myself, I looked at what you said about Proto and it didn't bother me.

Not sure who I'd suspect if Proto flipped scum...First, I'd look at Eurykins (literally no mentions of him in any of her posts), look at the people who didn't vote him and see if they had good reasons not too, and then probably end up voting someone on his wagon anyways because there's always a busser.

[Refa]

Er, the last thing that you said was that you were, not weren't.

[Zkirsche]

The last thing I said about Proto was

I don't have a lot to say about the rest of the post, he addressed what I said fine and I no longer see where SB is coming from.

which is how I feel now. Granted, I'm not looking into them ~too~ much since they're all quote walls. I think that if what bothers you the most about Proto was that he'd provide an "out" (if one can even call it that) for an ED1 miller claim that I didn't even take you shoul switch to Eury or Riptor and turbo actual scum.

[Refa]

Whoops, that's what I get for skimming.

Ugh, reread my Proto case and a lot of it is based on his reactions to your miller claim. Still bothered by him but lynching someone based solely on RVS content/responses ehhhhh not as confident.

Still wouldn't vote Riptor though at this time.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

[Zkirsche]

Oh hang on I see what Refa meant now I lost an entire paragraph rip.

It feels like an attempt to push people around to get what you want explicitly rather than trying to make them play smarter?

Well yeah pushing people around to get want I what is making them play smarter, duh. B) I had more here but I can't remember what I said, I'm pretty it was something like "SB seems to be assuming I'm town and Proto is scum in his posts" but I think that is a dumb point anyway.

Oh I also wanted to announce how miffed I am that people are just presuming Ken is town? He deflected my questions really hard and is solely talking about me. If he hasn't got much on others fine but he shouldn't get away with just ignoring them like he is. I feel like people are just assuming his flaws to be because he is new and I'm not sure this is the case. Unfortunately as it's not going to happen:

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

I'm pretty sure this is the most I've swapped votes in any D1.

[Percivalé]

I'm not sure how I feel about this switch ugh

[Refa]

Not townreading Ken myself, just not bothered by his focus on you. I'd love for him to post about other people so I could get an actual read on the guy! Should probably reread him to see if his responses to you are scummy but honestly not sure if I have another reread in me at this point.

Why Eurykins over Ken, though? Sounds like you're more bothered by him to me.