Explosions in NYC and New Jersey - Intentional act of NOT terrorism

[Time the Crestfallen]

That was in response to the Minnesota one. I think the suspect's dead.

Whoops, thought you were talking about the bombings. My bad.

[Life]

ISIS takes responsibility for anything they can, so I'd take their statements with a salt shaker. Also, don't read the comments on the news article, unless you want a shot of depression.

They haven't taken responsibility for NYC yet. Maybe they won't.

[Person123]

https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/777742180349771776

https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/777732098224422912

[CyborgZeta]

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/ahmad-khan-rahami

The suspect.

[Person123]

I wonder how CNN's gonna spin this.

[CyborgZeta]

They're working on shopping a "Make America Great Again" hat onto the suspect's head, I'm sure.

Edited September 19, 2016 by CyborgZeta

[Life]

No guys, this is an intentional act of NOT terrorism. Didn't you hear what the mayor said?

CNN is Hitler.

[Yojinbo]

Any information on whether there are connections between the attacks?

[Ansem]

Willing to argue that Fox news has more credibility than CNN

I'm liberal mostly also

[Lord Raven]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/nyregion/nyc-nj-explosions-ahmad-khan-rahami.html

suspect is arrested

[ClevelandSteve]

Yeah, the Minnesota one happened really close to where I live (in fact, when I first moved up to Minnesota, I considered transferring to the Target attached to that very mall where it happened before deciding to work at another one that was slightly closer, as in 5 minute drive vs. 15 minute drive. As for why there are two Targets that close to each other, it's Minnesota. Targets are everywhere here). I'm worried that this might trigger some serious racist backlash against the local Muslim population, some of whom I'm friends with.

[Life]

Yeah, the Minnesota one happened really close to where I live (in fact, when I first moved up to Minnesota, I considered transferring to the Target attached to that very mall where it happened before deciding to work at another one that was slightly closer, as in 5 minute drive vs. 15 minute drive. As for why there are two Targets that close to each other, it's Minnesota. Targets are everywhere here). I'm worried that this might trigger some serious racist backlash against the local Muslim population, some of whom I'm friends with.

It might.

But I'm of the opinion that they should be out on the forefront against terrorists. Shouldn't they be outraged that these people are perverting their religion rather much moreso than non-Muslims?

[-Cynthia-]

But I'm of the opinion that they should be out on the forefront against terrorists. Shouldn't they be outraged that these people are perverting their religion rather much moreso than non-Muslims?

Who says that American Muslims aren't outraged by acts of terror? American Muslims frequently condemn terrorist attacks,

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-orlando-shootings-and-american-muslims

http://www.mediamonitors.net/riadabdelkarim3.html

The Somali American community of St. Cloud has already condemned the Minnesota attacks. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/18/minnesota-stabbing-somali-americans-suspect-name

[Life]

Who says that American Muslims aren't outraged by acts of terror? American Muslims frequently condemn terrorist attacks,

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-orlando-shootings-and-american-muslims

http://www.mediamonitors.net/riadabdelkarim3.html

The Somali American community of St. Cloud has already condemned the Minnesota attacks. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/18/minnesota-stabbing-somali-americans-suspect-name

Great.

Now actually do something. They should be on the forefront.

Words mean nothing when you don't back up your rhetoric with actions.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Great.

Now actually do something. They should be on the forefront.

Words mean nothing when you don't back up your rhetoric with actions.

Actions like what? I keep hearing this, but it's never been made clear what you're actually expecting them to do.

[-Cynthia-]

Great.

Now actually do something. They should be on the forefront.

Words mean nothing when you don't back up your rhetoric with actions.

Should all American Muslims be in counterterrorism units or something? I don't think they have any more or less obligation than any other American civilian.

[Lord Raven]

Actions like what? I keep hearing this, but it's never been made clear what you're actually expecting them to do.

move to israel and join the army, probably

[solrocknroll]

remember, Life has realistic expectations of everyone, especially Muslims

because we all know how trying to get a group to stop radicals of that group works. I mean, the radical Christian KKK could have been stopped if Christians were at the forefront, and atheists should have banded together to fight Stalin.

[blah the Prussian]

I mean, for that last one they did, it was called Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, and Bukharin, and Stalin kind of murdered them all.

[eclipse]

remember, Life has realistic expectations of everyone, especially Muslims

because we all know how trying to get a group to stop radicals of that group works. I mean, the radical Christian KKK could have been stopped if Christians were at the forefront, and atheists should have banded together to fight Stalin.

1. Your attempt at a rebuttal is lame.

2. The Christian KKK is pretty low on the list of things for Christians to worry about.

3. So, do you have any better ideas, or are you just shooting your mouth off again?

[Life]

remember, Life has realistic expectations of everyone, especially Muslims

because we all know how trying to get a group to stop radicals of that group works. I mean, the radical Christian KKK could have been stopped if Christians were at the forefront, and atheists should have banded together to fight Stalin.

I think this comment is far too stupid to go unnoticed.

The KKK wasn't Christian driven. There is literally no proof of this whatsoever and you simply made it up because you hate Christians.

The KKK was the domestic terrorist arm of the Democratic Party until about the 1950's. Ever since, the Klan has been effectively defunct. If I ran for President and David Duke endorsed me (he wouldn't because I'm a Jew), I'd turn around and say that the Klan endorsing me means absolutely nothing because they have as much power today as the Westboro Baptist Church (all twelve of its inbred members).

As for Stalin, you're talking about a bunch of people against the Red Army. What are you, nuts? Where's the logic?

I'm saying that Muslim communities should actively attempt to combat radical Islam by co-operation with the US government. Well shit, I can't ask for them to do that? Is that Islamiphobic?

Can we admit that 25% of 1.6 billion people would be absolutely fine with bringing oppressive Sharia law into free Western countries? And can we admit that that is dangerous to gays, transgenders, women, Jews and other smaller minorities (before we get to the "everyone who isn't Muslim" level)?

Enigmar, you should be fucking terrified of radical Islam. They throw gays off of roofs. They rape women and then honour kill them. For someone who only cares about LGBTQAII (slient P) rights, you should be vehemently against radical Islam.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Deplorable Pepe

[Lord Raven]

I'm saying that Muslim communities should actively attempt to combat radical Islam by co-operation with the US government. Well shit, I can't ask for them to do that? Is that Islamiphobic?

expand on this

Can we admit that 25% of 1.6 billion people would be absolutely fine with bringing oppressive Sharia law into free Western countries? And can we admit that that is dangerous to gays, transgenders, women, Jews and other smaller minorities (before we get to the "everyone who isn't Muslim" level)?

are you referring to that source that tuvarkz brought up cause that article also said that many of them only believed it should apply in property disputes. i highly doubt they believe in sharia law to the extent which people think they do

EDIT:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

the excerpt of choice:

When Muslims around the world say they want sharia to be the law of the land, what role do they envision for religious law in their country? First, many, but by no means all, supporters of sharia believe the law of Islam should apply only to Muslims. In addition, those who favor Islamic law tend to be most comfortable with its application to questions of family and property.9 In some regions, fewer back the imposition of severe punishments in criminal cases, such as cutting off the hands of thieves – an area of sharia known in Arabic as hudud (see Glossary). But in South Asia and the Middle East and North Africa, medians of more than half back both severe criminal punishments and the death penalty for Muslims who renounce their faith.

this is in the middle east, but i highly doubt the people who believe in this really will leave said islamic country they are in

Edited September 20, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Time the Crestfallen]

I'm saying that Muslim communities should actively attempt to combat radical Islam by co-operation with the US government. Well shit, I can't ask for them to do that? Is that Islamiphobic?

How do you suppose that Muslim communities co-operate with the Government? Because I'm pretty sure that budding terrorists aren't going around cackling about their evil plans like some Saturday morning cartoon villain to everybody they just so happen to share a religion with.

[Life]

expand on this

are you referring to that source that tuvarkz brought up cause that article also said that many of them only believed it should apply in property disputes. i highly doubt they believe in sharia law to the extent which people think they do

First of all, Muslim communities that believe that their local imams are preaching anything near radicalization should call it out and try to stop it.

First ammendment doesn't cover people who incite direct violence. Plus, you can argue that it would also be treason. That's a starting step.

I'm very hardline on this one. If anyone has any sense of moral obligation to stop radical Islam, it is any Muslim who won't be immediately killed for not being Muslim. Proof? Hey, let's look at St. Cloud! "Are you Muslim? No?" *stab*

I'm going off of many sources including Sam Harris who is on your side of the aisle. Unless he's still gross and racist.

Tell you what. Let's scale it down to... 10% at most (which is grossly wrong). That's still 160 million people. If we say 20% (which is the conservative estimate), that's nearly the population of the entire USA.

Can I point something out here that's fascinating? There's more hatred for Jews than Muslims in the world and there are at best 15 million of us in the world. And every one of those 160~400 million Muslims who are fundamentalists would be OK with seeing us dead or would actively try.

Remember when you went on a tirade about your safety from Trump? This is mine. I am fucking terrified because it is me and my family and NOT yours (because you are Muslim) that pays the price here. If this evil manages to fester in the Western World, it is my immediate family's safety that I am scared for.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Deplorable Pepe

[Lord Raven]

so how will it fester in the western world by allowing immigrants, i really don't understand

First of all, Muslim communities that believe that their local imams are preaching anything near radicalization should call it out and try to stop it.

has there been an instance of a local imam preaching radical islam

and i dunno man there's drone strikes where my family resides in Pakistan, whereas your family lives in Canada so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, plenty of blame around there but this knee-jerk "gotta kill them terrorists" is stressful to think about when I think about where I have family

i also made an edit but you ignored the central point of my post pre-edit. in fact, my edit just brings more detail to it, which still ends up being this is a minority of people anyway, and that source (or any source you bring up) doesn't even talk about muslims who have lived in the west or immigrated to the west

EDIT: would also like to point out that my issue was with a) how the majority of Muslims do not commit acts of terror, b) many Muslims in Muslim-focused countries wouldn't want to leave said country unless they felt they could find better opportunity elsewhere or c) how Muslims who say they believe in Sharia Law to the extent of corporal punishment are still a minority in the overall scheme of the religion and are again relegated to Muslim majority countries. Having that said, the threat of radicalization spreading out west is not just against Jews, Christians, Gays, etc, but Muslims as well considering there was a bombing of the holy Islamic city of Medina right around the end of Ramadan. Radical Islam does not lead to anyone who is not Muslim being wiped out, because people who are Muslim are also targets.

There are also things like this (the majority of my family residing in Pakistan is actually in or near Lahore, but some of my family is in the Pakistani military so they are assigned to unscrupulous places that tend to have drone strikes) which are a result of Radical Islam. Again, everyone is a victim, but I also want to make clear that Islamophobia is not rational in the slightest despite the fact that radical Muslims exist. It also will not spread out west, because as many people have pointed out radical Islam is highly incompatible with western ideals whereas the Islam that many Muslims tend to preach are about as compatible as, say, Christianity is. Radicalization of any ideology is actually not inherently compatible with western ideals either. Radical Islam in the end has turned into a rallying cry for Islamophobia, rather than anything actually substantial.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Lord Raven