I don't feel entirely satisfied with the current direction of FE

[Quintessence]

And yet I think Awakening's story is better, or, at least, more appealing than Fates. Tbh I don't to expand arguments on these because I feel it is like repeating what has been already said in a million topics. So basically I just hope we get something better on the next FE. or just remake FE4 and 5

Or more TMS#FE

Edited November 11, 2016 by Quintessence

[Dinar87]

And yet I think Awakening's story is better, or, at least, more appealing than Fates. Tbh I don't to expand arguments on these because I feel it is like repeating what has been already said in a million topics. So basically I just hope we get something better on the next FE. or just remake FE4 and 5

Or more TMS#FE

That's interesting to me that some one would prefer awakening's story to fates' stories...any particular reasons why that is? Was it corrin's apparently idiotic moments in conquest or something else entirely? I haven't played fates so I'm not aware of everything that happens in it.

[shadowofchaos]

There is a good member base here that think Awakening and Fates were terrible stories. And there's a good number that prefer Awakening's story.

Its just people who like Fates anyway tend to post more often in Fates discussions.

[Quintessence]

That's interesting to me that some one would prefer awakening's story to fates' stories...any particular reasons why that is? Was it corrin's apparently idiotic moments in conquest or something else entirely? I haven't played fates so I'm not aware of everything that happens in it.

I feel the story has a bit more depth (a bit). The children had an appealing reason to exist (despite me preferring Genealogy's tons more) rather than what Fates pulled, and they feel totally cringe-worthy, prince or not. I felt characters like Lucina, Owain, Inigo and Severa, among others, had more empathy with the players rather than the Fates kids (I might be wrong, but that's my impression). Their DLC (Future Past) afaik made them better characters although I didn't play it. The Arcs and the general progress of the story was much better, Robin was a good character (despite its flaws), Chrom is a lord that was put in a difficult situation and moved forward in a coherent way. All in all, I think Awakening was far better structured than Fates.

Fates on the contrary felt as a game that was rushed, whose only purpose was to make the player get 3 versions. But the story is pretty eh, it lacks lore and depth, it's just 2 kingdoms clash, choose who to side with (I can find this in any other RPG, even cheaper), Corrin, Azura and the Royals are like the worst characters ever, the story grows upon dumb thoughts and actions. Its gameplay is the most confortable but it's nothing stellar, because UI improvements are standard when you throw a new installment to the market (basically a must-have), Dragon Veins is more like a gimmick, map designs are really good and well-thought but that's about it. Add to that the misleading marketing of the game. Most of the hate towards Fates come from this and small flaws that added altogether make the game look pretty bad.

[Dinar87]

I feel the story has a bit more depth (a bit). The children had an appealing reason to exist (despite me preferring Genealogy's tons more) rather than what Fates pulled, and they feel totally cringe-worthy, prince or not. I felt characters like Lucina, Owain, Inigo and Severa, among others, had more empathy with the players rather than the Fates kids (I might be wrong, but that's my impression). Their DLC (Future Past) afaik made them better characters although I didn't play it. The Arcs and the general progress of the story was much better, Robin was a good character (despite its flaws), Chrom is a lord that was put in a difficult situation and moved forward in a coherent way. All in all, I think Awakening was far better structured than Fates.

Fates on the contrary felt as a game that was rushed, whose only purpose was to make the player get 3 versions. But the story is pretty eh, it lacks lore and depth, it's just 2 kingdoms clash, choose who to side with (I can find this in any other RPG, even cheaper), Corrin, Azura and the Royals are like the worst characters ever, the story grows upon dumb thoughts and actions. Its gameplay is the most confortable but it's nothing stellar, because UI improvements are standard when you throw a new installment to the market (basically a must-have), Dragon Veins is more like a gimmick, map designs are really good and well-thought but that's about it. Add to that the misleading marketing of the game. Most of the hate towards Fates come from this and small flaws that added altogether make the game look pretty bad.

I've been thinking about things again and I'm wondering why exactly I love the tellius games so much to the point of obsession. I can't put my finger on what I liked about those games anymore. In the past it was "character development and world building" but character development is about making characters be believable and that's somewhat subjective. As for world building, again I can't exactly pinpoint how it was better in those games. I just FEEL they were better and this can't be nostalgia because I played awakening before those games for Pete's sake!

As for awakening's story, I can no longer say it's a bad story (or a good one) as I can't say why I didn't like it apart from small things like the comedic moments and characters focused on comedy and memes (like owain) which, while a part of the game, aren't a huge part of it.

I don't know anymore. I just enjoyed those games over awakening for some unknown reason and I'd like to know what those reasons could be.

[Quintessence]

I do attribute Tellius era to be charged of lore and depth. I think what makes me love it is because it feels real and believable, and still it has lots of fantasy elements. PoR made an awesome job on story progress and well done characters, their supports help too. RD is a bigger game with an ambitious approach, it has a huge cast but still does a good job on highlighting some of them. It also has Base Conversations, its gameplay is pretty classic too. I think it is the sum of good elements that make the game feel better. It still has room for improvement, and one will always like to see something better.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Quintessence

[Dinar87]

I do attribute Tellius era to be charged of lore and depth. I think what makes me love it is because it feels real and believable, and still it has lots of fantasy elements. PoR made an awesome job on story progress and well done characters, their supports help too. RD is a bigger game with an ambitious approach, it has a huge cast but still does a good job on highlighting some of them. It also has Base Conversations, its gameplay is pretty classic too. I think it is the sum of good elements that make the game feel better. It still has room for improvement, and one will always like to see something better.

I think you may be onto something about the fantasy elements. While how believable something is is somewhat subjective, because it's only somewhat subjective, it can still be controlled and influenced somewhat. The tellius games IIRC,while still having a lot of fantasy elements, struck a nice balance for me between realism and fantasy...where as titles like awakening seem more involved in the fantasy side of things rather than being more realistic. It's about balance and I think I preferred the balance of PoR to awakening.

[Quintessence]

I think you may be onto something about the fantasy elements. While how believable something is is somewhat subjective, because it's only somewhat subjective, it can still be controlled and influenced somewhat. The tellius games IIRC,while still having a lot of fantasy elements, struck a nice balance for me between realism and fantasy...where as titles like awakening seem more involved in the fantasy side of things rather than being more realistic. It's about balance and I think I preferred the balance of PoR to awakening.

Regarding how believable something is, I was referring to how natural it feels. For instance, Ike's reactions and progress throughout Greil's death felt natural and believable, while Corrin's actions and reactions are totally dumb.

[Dinar87]

Regarding how believable something is, I was referring to how natural it feels. For instance, Ike's reactions and progress throughout Greil's death felt natural and believable, while Corrin's actions and reactions are totally dumb.

On the topic of giving corrin shit, this is a minor nitpick, but why does the female version have thighs showing when the male version (apart from head and feet) is completely covered? Then again, only someone like me would even notice something like that and be bothered by it so I doubt it could be considered an objective flaw.

Anyways, I don't know how believable not crying at all over Greil's death is as I haven't really had much experience with relatives dying on me (luckily!). But I do know that some people get pretty teary over the death of a relative so there's that.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Dinar87

[Jave]

On the topic of giving corrin shit, this is a minor nitpick, but why does the female version have thighs showing when the male version (apart from head and feet) is completely covered?

That's just fanservice. It's been on the series since forever since the female version of a lot of classes tends to show more skin.

Except FE1 Marth. He's so badass he needs no pants.

[eclipse]

Ahem. . .

So a post just went poof. The reason why is that there's a LOT of information in the Fates subforum regarding that. I strongly suggest reading backwards, and you'll see a lot of answers to that question. I absolutely do NOT want to see a rehash of that over here.

If you have no idea what search terms to use, PM me.

(For the curious, it had the word "story" in it, and I don't want to see anyone's two cents about it here. Go make a topic in the Fates subforum to talk about it for the millionth time.)

EDIT: Oh, right, and y'all want to PM TC about this, feel free to do so~! Keep in mind that he doesn't have the game yet, so don't spoil everything off the bat.

If I see any more story mentions by TC, I close this topic. People other than TC get a warning.

Edited November 12, 2016 by eggclipse

[Quintessence]

Who's TC?

Sorry if I'm being ignorant/unaware :/

Edited November 12, 2016 by Quintessence

[Jotari]

I enjoyed Fate's story more so than Awakenings. But I'm pretty sure that's entirely based on Awakening lowering my expectations for Fate's Plot immensely where's with Awakening I was expecting something like Radiant Dawn (having skipped the FE12 Avatar pandering at that point).

Edited November 12, 2016 by Jotari

[eclipse]

Who's TC?

Sorry if I'm being ignorant/unaware :/

TC = guy who made the topic.

[Quintessence]

TC = guy who made the topic.

Ah ok, sorry for promoting the rehash ~

[Topaz Light]

The fact that TC stands for Topic Creator might make it easier to remember!

On the topic of why Tellius may stand out to you, Dinar87, it's also important to consider things like the tone/atmosphere of the world and story, the flow and themes of the plot, etc. There are a lot of more nebulous things that can't always be boiled down to specific examples (at least not without a lot of thought and analysis), but that can have a huge impact on the experience. It's okay to not always be able to place your finger on precisely why something appeals to you as much as it does!

[Sentinel07]

I've been thinking about things again and I'm wondering why exactly I love the tellius games so much to the point of obsession. I can't put my finger on what I liked about those games anymore. In the past it was "character development and world building" but character development is about making characters be believable and that's somewhat subjective. As for world building, again I can't exactly pinpoint how it was better in those games. I just FEEL they were better and this can't be nostalgia because I played awakening before those games for Pete's sake!

As for awakening's story, I can no longer say it's a bad story (or a good one) as I can't say why I didn't like it apart from small things like the comedic moments and characters focused on comedy and memes (like owain) which, while a part of the game, aren't a huge part of it.

I don't know anymore. I just enjoyed those games over awakening for some unknown reason and I'd like to know what those reasons could be.

One of my favorite examples of world building in the Tellius games is that one base conversation where it just involves four random Crimean villagers. They don't even have names revealed to us, yet their conversation gives a lot of insight into just how these constant wars are taking their toll on the common folk and about how much their views towards Beorc and Laguz have been changed.

That's where the Tellius games excel. They cover characters, and even random nobodies, so well that you get a sense for just how they're all being affected, for how these countries operate and how the wars have changed them. It's simple yet beautiful how alive the world feels.

That's what makes the Tellius games great to me.

[Dinar87]

Going back to the topic of grinding, wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of "hardcore" mode beyond lunatic that turned off all opportunities to grind at all? Unless I'm mistaken, they were going for that in conquest but good old nintendo made them also include access to the pay-to-win DLC that lets you grind (provided you give nintendo the $$$ of course). Maybe it's not as easy as it was in awakening but I wish the original vision of conquest (not being able to grind at all) could've been done as it would've added a nice sense of pressure and challenge that's lost when you give players so many opportunities to grind their problems away.

But what about those who want to access the DLC in the conquest path? Just have a separate mode that you can turn on/off at the start of every new save file (only then to not cheapen the challenge so if you get stuck there's no easy way out).That's why I'd love a separate mode that stops you from taking the easier way out and using DLC. Sure, I could technically force myself to play without grinding but I've always found challenges in life to be more fun when there's an official structure in place that I have to conquer rather than a personal one that I've set up for myself.

This isn't a massive issue though but it'd be nice to see happen eventually.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Dinar87

[Thane]

Going back to the topic of grinding, wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of "hardcore" mode beyond lunatic that turned off all opportunities to grind at all? Unless I'm mistaken, they were going for that in conquest but good old nintendo made them also include access to the pay-to-win DLC that lets you grind (provided you give nintendo the $$$ of course). Maybe it's not as easy as it was in awakening but I wish the original vision of conquest (not being able to grind at all) could've been done as it would've added a nice sense of pressure and challenge that's lost when you give players so many opportunities to grind their problems away.

But what about those who want to access the DLC in the conquest path? Just have a separate mode that you can turn on/off at the start of every new save file (only then to not cheapen the challenge so if you get stuck there's no easy way out).That's why I'd love a separate mode that stops you from taking the easier way out and using DLC. Sure, I could technically force myself to play without grinding but I've always found challenges in life to be more fun when there's an official structure in place that I have to conquer rather than a personal one that I've set up for myself.

This isn't a massive issue though but it'd be nice to see happen eventually.

Why is it an issue at all? Why would you care how others play the game? So long as grinding remains optional, I really don't see why a separate mode would be required that turns it off completely.

[Dinar87]

Why is it an issue at all? Why would you care how others play the game? So long as grinding remains optional, I really don't see why a separate mode would be required that turns it off completely.

Because some of us like completing specially made challenges for us rather than making our own. It's just more fun.

If I genuinely cared about wanting others to play a certain way I'd be advocating for the removal of the grinding DLC entirely and anything else that lets you grind. However, I'm being more considerate than that and letting people play how they want but at the same time wanting to play how I want (having an official mode instead of self-imposed challenges).

Yes it's technically optional and you can already do what I'm asking for in the form of self imposed challenges. But then again playing video games is technically optional as well yet we're allowed to criticize them. Again, self-imposed challenges aren't as fun for me as hand crafted ones made by real game developers.

It's not "required" at all but it'd be nice to have as a little extra. I've already said it's not a massive issue and that it's only a nitpick of mine.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Dinar87

[Thane]

Because some of us like completing specially made challenges for us rather than making our own. It's just more fun.

If I genuinely cared about wanting others to play a certain way I'd be advocating for the removal of the grinding DLC entirely and anything else that lets you grind. However, I'm being more considerate than that and letting people play how they want but at the same time wanting to play how I want (having an official mode instead of self-imposed challenges).

Yes it's technically optional and you can already do what I'm asking for in the form of self imposed challenges. But then again playing video games is technically optional as well yet we're allowed to criticize them. Again, self-imposed challenges aren't as fun for me as hand crafted ones made by real game developers.

It's not "required" at all but it'd be nice to have as a little extra. I've already said it's not a massive issue and that it's only a nitpick of mine.

A specific mode to turn off grinding would still be a self-imposed challenge. It's still a conscious choice you make.

[Dinar87]

A specific mode to turn off grinding would still be a self-imposed challenge. It's still a conscious choice you make.

The difference is that I wouldn't be able to change the conditions once I began without making an entirely new save file. With a self imposed challenge in the form of what we currently have, I can technically break the rules at any time and that cheapens the challenge for me.

[Thane]

The difference is that I wouldn't be able to change the conditions once I began without making an entirely new save file. With a self imposed challenge in the form of what we currently have, I can technically break the rules at any time and that cheapens the challenge for me.

So you want the game to cater to your lack of discipline, do I have that right?

[Dinar87]

So you want the game to cater to your lack of discipline, do I have that right?

I mean I can technically force myself to not grind in games like awakening but it doesn't feel as fun as when I'm forced to do it...

..you know what? Let's just forget this whole mess. I don't feel like fighting again.

[Gradivus.]

I mean I can technically force myself to not grind in games like awakening but it doesn't feel as fun as when I'm forced to do it...

..you know what? Let's just forget this whole mess. I don't feel like fighting again.

Maybe it would help to not think of it as forcing yourself. I consider no-grind a playstyle a more fun way to play the game, not a forced attempt to make it interesting, because it passes up on help that consumes time and isn't needed (and feels cheap to you).

It's very easy to ignore Fates' skirmishes, although they are annoying in Awakening when they block your shops.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Gradivus.