Fire Emblem Pitfalls - Part 1

[Mekkah]

Hey guys, I made a video that I thought you might enjoy.

[Jedi]

I quite liked this video, I think most of us have fallen into these pitfalls over the course of our time playing, and its good for newer players to see this as potential things they should consider or avoid etc.

[Augestein]

Good video.

The promotion one IS weird IMO, because it depends on the game you're playing as well as the class of the unit. I know you mentioned this in the video, but this idea is really something that would honestly need to be mentioned a bit more thoroughly because of how radically different the situations are.

Pro-Delaying promotion example in Sacred Stones, there's no reason to promote your cavaliers early unless you REALLY want axes on a great knight. 1 move really isn't that much of a boon in instances, and all of the cavaliers have solid stats, so you could really save those Knight Crests/ Earth Seals for other units that you might be using that need them. If you aren't using someone else like say... Gilliam or Amelia, as a knight, then feel free to promote them early, but it is something else to consider. And in some like Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance, it's really just a waste of money to promote early because people automatically promote upon gaining a level from 20 to "21". Sure, I'll agree that Fire Emblem generally gives you enough money to handle your business, but I'd much rather make more expensive forges than spend them on special shop purchases of Master Seals. If you find one? Sure. If not, there's no reason to actually *try* to promote early.

Pro-Early Promotion: I believe your Rutger example most definitely covered a good argument for early promotion.

I mean, even in Fates, you technically don't have infinite levels, and it's better to Heart Seal to nab more skills IMO than it is to immediately promote to get higher stats and a new weapon type (or innate bonuses to being a class).

[Mekkah]

There's definitely cases where promoting later can be better. If a unit's combat would not improve much from promoting and their EXP gain would suffer significantly, I would advocate delaying their promotion. However, I disagree that "in Sacred Stones, there's no reason to promote your cavaliers early".

In a strict LTC sense, it's been shown that promoting Franz at the start of Ch8 saves a turn because the extra point of movement helps Seth and Eirika's positioning to the point where you can finish earlier. Even in a more casual playthrough, the usual advantages apply: the extra point of movement increases flexibility, and the stats are like getting somewhere between 2-4 free level-ups depending on which stat you look at.

More concretely, Franz would gain 2 HP/2 Def, which is yuge. A L10 Franz goes from 27 hp/8 def to 29 hp/10 def. 18 atk enemies go from 3HKOing to 4HKOing. A 15 atk enemy goes from 4HKOing to 6HKOing him

He also gains +1 speed and +2 con, so instead of losing 2 AS from Javelins he can now use them without a penalty. L10 Franz has 11.5 spd, or 9.5 AS with a Javelin. With a promotion, he has 12.5 AS. Instead of only doubling slow 5-6 AS and below, he now doubles 8-9 AS enemies.

[Elieson]

There's definitely cases where promoting later can be better. If a unit's combat would not improve much from promoting and their EXP gain would suffer significantly, I would advocate delaying their promotion. However, I disagree that "in Sacred Stones, there's no reason to promote your cavaliers early".

In a strict LTC sense, it's been shown that promoting Franz at the start of Ch8 saves a turn because the extra point of movement helps Seth and Eirika's positioning to the point where you can finish earlier. Even in a more casual playthrough, the usual advantages apply: the extra point of movement increases flexibility, and the stats are like getting somewhere between 2-4 free level-ups depending on which stat you look at.

More concretely, Franz would gain 2 HP/2 Def, which is yuge. A L10 Franz goes from 27 hp/8 def to 29 hp/10 def. 18 atk enemies go from 3HKOing to 4HKOing. A 15 atk enemy goes from 4HKOing to 6HKOing him

He also gains +1 speed and +2 con, so instead of losing 2 AS from Javelins he can now use them without a penalty. L10 Franz has 11.5 spd, or 9.5 AS with a Javelin. With a promotion, he has 12.5 AS. Instead of only doubling slow 5-6 AS and below, he now doubles 8-9 AS enemies.

In instances other than strict LTC, often times, especially in FE7 and for Not-Franz in FE8, you could comfortably go to Lv 12-13 before promoting some units. Chumps like Forde, who would be more useful with a few levelups, tend to suck bricks upon asap promotion even in Hard!EirRt, where the added movement isn't helping him since he still dies pretty easily and whereas he needs more statups, he goes from gaining 30-40 xp per kill with mediocre stats to 8-10xp per kill with mediocre stats.

[ping]

Good video making great points.

If I'm allowed to nitpick: I didn't really mind the audio quality, but the sound of your voice changes very heavily between the parts. It's really not a big deal and I know hardly anything about voice recording, but maybe it's possible to keep the mic in the same position between recordings or something like that?

About the content: FE games tend not to become more challenging in the endgame, so that might be an additional argument for early promotions and for using your Jeigans.

[Mekkah]

In instances other than strict LTC, often times, especially in FE7 and for Not-Franz in FE8, you could comfortably go to Lv 12-13 before promoting some units. Chumps like Forde, who would be more useful with a few levelups, tend to suck bricks upon asap promotion even in Hard!EirRt, where the added movement isn't helping him since he still dies pretty easily and whereas he needs more statups, he goes from gaining 30-40 xp per kill with mediocre stats to 8-10xp per kill with mediocre stats.

Honestly, Forde is just never going to be a great unit statistically, regardless of when he promotes. He's too slow to double consistently and his str is mediocre at best. So if Forde sucks as a 12/1 Paladin or whatever, he'd probably suck even more as a 12/0 Cavalier.

For the rest...it really depends on how they turn out and what the situation is. I think in general the earlier you promote them the better unless (as I said in an above post) they are self sufficient and are enjoying the higher EXP gain.

Good video making great points.

If I'm allowed to nitpick: I didn't really mind the audio quality, but the sound of your voice changes very heavily between the parts. It's really not a big deal and I know hardly anything about voice recording, but maybe it's possible to keep the mic in the same position between recordings or something like that?

About the content: FE games tend not to become more challenging in the endgame, so that might be an additional argument for early promotions and for using your Jeigans.

Nitpicks are allowed! The reason my voice sounds so different between segments is because I didn't record the whole thing at once since it took a while to get satisfying takes, but if I record for too long at a time I get burned out. Now over the course of doing this video I figured out ways to streamline the process, so hopefully for next time this will be less of a problem since I'll be able to record more at once.

[Augestein]

There's definitely cases where promoting later can be better. If a unit's combat would not improve much from promoting and their EXP gain would suffer significantly, I would advocate delaying their promotion. However, I disagree that "in Sacred Stones, there's no reason to promote your cavaliers early".

In a strict LTC sense, it's been shown that promoting Franz at the start of Ch8 saves a turn because the extra point of movement helps Seth and Eirika's positioning to the point where you can finish earlier. Even in a more casual playthrough, the usual advantages apply: the extra point of movement increases flexibility, and the stats are like getting somewhere between 2-4 free level-ups depending on which stat you look at.

More concretely, Franz would gain 2 HP/2 Def, which is yuge. A L10 Franz goes from 27 hp/8 def to 29 hp/10 def. 18 atk enemies go from 3HKOing to 4HKOing. A 15 atk enemy goes from 4HKOing to 6HKOing him

He also gains +1 speed and +2 con, so instead of losing 2 AS from Javelins he can now use them without a penalty. L10 Franz has 11.5 spd, or 9.5 AS with a Javelin. With a promotion, he has 12.5 AS. Instead of only doubling slow 5-6 AS and below, he now doubles 8-9 AS enemies.

I agree, but the thing is, it's just something that is difficult to really say honestly. I think the tip should be more worded along the lines of "don't be afraid to promote early." IE, the same way you said "don't feel bad about using stat ups sooner rather than later." Mages for instance especially benefit from promotions because they usually gain staves. LTCing I can understand that, but LTCing has a lot of weird things like getting Sky Knight Sakura ASAP. But it doesn't really help a casual player to promote early in many cases as it doesn't help them nearly as much as a LTCer that attempts to shave off as many turns as possible and isn't necessarily going for the "easiest" time. IE, I used to LTC PoR (not recorded because I didn't realize back in the day that people even cared about stuff like this), but one of the things I used to do was 2-turn Chapter 4. In a casual playthrough that's really bad, in LTC land, that's the fastest you can do the chapter.

In the case of a casual playthrough? 1 move is just... Eh.

[KoimanZX]

Even though I am fully aware that I am playing the games wrong because I do not go for low turn counts, I still like to put off promotion until level 20 for I like characters to have the best stats possible in a given playthrough. I also like to have characters cap stats (which is from me starting with Radiant Dawn, where caps really matter). I also avoid using Jeigans and most pre-promotes in general because of my "stat-hound" tendencies. I am also one of those idiots who never use weapons that drop stats in Fates and stick with forged iron weapons, so take my opinion with a whole shaker of salt.

[Dinar87]

Even though I am fully aware that I am playing the games wrong because I do not go for low turn counts, I still like to put off promotion until level 20 for I like characters to have the best stats possible in a given playthrough. I also like to have characters cap stats (which is from me starting with Radiant Dawn, where caps really matter). I also avoid using Jeigans and most pre-promotes in general because of my "stat-hound" tendencies. I am also one of those idiots who never use weapons that drop stats in Fates and stick with forged iron weapons, so take my opinion with a whole shaker of salt.

I think I'm the same as you. I don't see the point either of promoting earlier as, while sure if you know what you're doing, you definitely don't need to wait for level 20 in order to breeze through the game , I like being as op as possible and waiting helps achieve this.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Dinar87

[NekoKnight]

Is the whole "don't wait until level 20 to promote" on a unit-by-unit basis or can it be applied to games as a whole? In a game like Fates, for example, it'd be nice to get level 35 skills earlier. Could this be achieved by promoting units at level 15 or would the exp reduction negate any chance to reaching promoted level 15 sooner?

Even though I am fully aware that I am playing the games wrong because I do not go for low turn counts, I still like to put off promotion until level 20 for I like characters to have the best stats possible in a given playthrough. I also like to have characters cap stats (which is from me starting with Radiant Dawn, where caps really matter). I also avoid using Jeigans and most pre-promotes in general because of my "stat-hound" tendencies. I am also one of those idiots who never use weapons that drop stats in Fates and stick with forged iron weapons, so take my opinion with a whole shaker of salt.

This is pretty much how I always play. I think Fates might be one of the few games I used a prepromote for more than a few chapters.

[Shadow Mir]

Is the whole "don't wait until level 20 to promote" on a unit-by-unit basis or can it be applied to games as a whole? In a game like Fates, for example, it'd be nice to get level 35 skills earlier. Could this be achieved by promoting units at level 15 or would the exp reduction negate any chance to reaching promoted level 15 sooner?

I dunno - I think the exp reduction would make it such that if you got to level 15 earlier than if you'd waited, it wouldn't be by much.

That said, promoting early is good in the earlier FE games, for the most part, since stats cap at 20.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[eclipse]

Context is important!

Are you just doing a casual, screw-around run where anything goes? Do whatever you like, even if it means feeding Wendy every last stat booster.

Are you doing some sort of optimized LTC? Figure out what needs to be accomplished, how to accomplish it, and work from there.

In the end, Fire Emblem's just a game, so have fun.