Hardest & frustrating FE games ever

[SalShich10N]

Harrumph. You'd have done well to not even bother trying to defend it - I VERY highly doubt you have any argument that'd make me think it's worth trying out. . .

Defend what exactly? Healing staves missing? Sure it's bullshit when it happens but it doesn't happen too often either. For the most of the game it never happened to me outside of a very specific unit whose low hit rate on stave served to limit her power.

Fatigue is nuanced. It serves a vehicle for you to constantly try out new units and strategies. So you don't funnel all the exp to the same 5 units and steamroll through the game. You have plenty of units to make up for it. Hell several units with high HP like Brighton and Othin skip maps for often because it's not practical to bring them than because they're tired. There are items that can fully heal fatigue as well.

Caps are at 20 PRECICELY so you don't get screwed over by fatigue. There are many units you don't even need to promote ever like Karin because they're fine without it, and there are units who can promote at level 10 or 15 so they enjoy all the advantages earlier.

Scrolls exist so even the most garbage of waifus, that bitch Eda, can be a terrific unit if so you want it.

Every goddamn Vulnerary in the game is an Elixir.

You can steal a sword that puts enemies to sleep, Hit the game's Camus with it, capture him, strip the man off his prf weapon, his clothes and human dignity and then throw the dude in the river. No other Fire Emblem let's me do that.

And what permanent Status Effect? Stone? You can heal that too and it's only on the endgame.

Anyways, perhaps what you or others want is something simpler like supports or just putting Ryoma and Femui in the middle of everything and skip turns... But in my eyes within all the bullshit Thracia threw at me I also see the best Fire Emblem game I played.

Edited November 19, 2016 by SalShich10N

[Jave]

Harrumph. You'd have done well to not even bother trying to defend it - I VERY highly doubt you have any argument that'd make me think it's worth trying out. . .

Believe me, when I first heard about Thracia I was scared of trying it out. But when I started playing it and learned all of its quirks something about the game just clicked. It's now my favorite FE.

[Shadow Mir]

Defend what exactly? Healing staves missing? Sure it's bullshit when it happens but it doesn't happen too often either. For the most of the game it never happened to me outside of a very specific unit whose low hit rate on stave served to limit her power.

Fatigue is nuanced. It serves a vehicle for you to constantly try out new units and strategies. So you don't funnel all the exp to the same 5 units and steamroll through the game. You have plenty of units to make up for it. Hell several units with high HP like Brighton and Othin skip maps for often because it's not practical to bring them than because they're tired. There are items that can fully heal fatigue as well.

Caps are at 20 PRECICELY so you don't get screwed over by fatigue. There are many units you don't even need to promote ever like Karin because they're fine without it, and there are units who can promote at level 10 or 15 so they enjoy all the advantages earlier.

Scrolls exist so even the most garbage of waifus, that bitch Eda, can be a terrific unit if so you want it.

Every goddamn Vulnerary in the game is an Elixir.

You can steal a sword that puts enemies to sleep, Hit the game's Camus with it, capture him, strip the man off his prf weapon, his clothes and human dignity and then throw the dude in the river. No other Fire Emblem let's me do that.

And what permanent Status Effect? Stone? You can heal that too and it's only on the endgame.

Anyways, perhaps what you or others want is something simpler like supports or just putting Ryoma and Femui in the middle of everything and skip turns... But in my eyes within all the bullshit Thracia threw at me I also see the best Fire Emblem game I played.

The game itself, natch. It doesn't help I have a very strong enmity of almost all things Jugdral. . .

[SalShich10N]

The game itself, natch. It doesn't help I have a very strong enmity of almost all things Jugdral. . .

Oh, it's a personal bias. Should have said so sooner. I now fail to see now what exactly you find wrong with Thracia, or jugdral but whatevs.

[Shadow Mir]

Oh, it's a personal bias. Should have said so sooner. I now fail to see now what exactly you find wrong with Thracia, or jugdral but whatevs.

The bias is only part of it. I think both of the Jugdral games are very deeply flawed design wise to the point they'd be unfun to play... And it doesn't help matters that I don't care for nearly enough of the characters either.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Dayni]

And what permanent Status Effect? Stone? You can heal that too and it's only on the endgame.

Yeah, no.

All of the statuses are permanent. To the point that you need a lot of restore staves unless you have status staves on hand to counter them. It's a game that's very exploitable, but unless you realise that you run into trouble like having a bunch of slept/berserked units. And if Leaf has a status with no restore (unless it's poison), you're restarting the chapter.

To be honest that and not being able to rearrange units were among the must frustrating parts to me playing Thracia 776. Don't get me wrong, I do like this game. But it is far more frustrating without knowledge and even with. A game where you can be powerful and weak at the same time with a few changes.

[SalShich10N]

The bias is only part of it. I think both of the Jugdral games are very deeply flawed design wise to the point they'd be unfun to play... And it doesn't help matters that I don't care for nearly enough of the characters either.

But have you played them, though? Those are things you really cannot judge until you have tried them yourself. How can you say you don't care about characters if you haven't played it?

I can relate to personal bias, though. I hate Gaiden with a passion. So much that I forgot that I even played the game all the way up to chapter 2. By far my most frustrating experience with this series is motherfucking Gaiden. Holy golden bananas screw Gaiden and it's constant 60% hit rates all across the board.

[Shadow Mir]

But have you played them, though? Those are things you really cannot judge until you have tried them yourself. How can you say you don't care about characters if you haven't played it?

I can relate to personal bias, though. I hate Gaiden with a passion. So much that I forgot that I even played the game all the way up to chapter 2. By far my most frustrating experience with this series is motherfucking Gaiden. Holy golden bananas screw Gaiden and it's constant 60% hit rates all across the board.

No. But it ain't like I have to play them to know that FE4's ginormous maps or FE5's permanent status effects and fatigue are very heinous design flaws. As Dayni said, the permanent status effects could easily push you into an unwinnable situation. And there's the way escape maps are in FE5, as if I needed more reasons to utterly despise it. Edited November 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SalShich10N]

Yeah, no.

All of the statuses are permanent. To the point that you need a lot of restore staves unless you have status staves on hand to counter them. It's a game that's very exploitable, but unless you realise that you run into trouble like having a bunch of slept/berserked units. And if Leaf has a status with no restore (unless it's poison), you're restarting the chapter.

To be honest that and not being able to rearrange units were among the must frustrating parts to me playing Thracia 776. Don't get me wrong, I do like this game. But it is far more frustrating without knowledge and even with. A game where you can be powerful and weak at the same time with a few changes.

Ahh I thought you meant that carry over between Chapters. you get plenty of those Restore staves and by the time status staves start becoming a thing several of your mages can also run restore staves. If I recall correctly they do restore at the end of a chapter and in escape maps someone can rescue Leaf and finish the map. You can also avoid them by using your own Silence and Sleep staves, You don't fight that many enemies with Berserk staves only in the last 3 chapters or so. remember everything the enemy uses against you is something you can use against them. I recall Berserkering one of the dreadlords or the minions around them on the Final chapter.

[Dayni]

Ahh I thought you meant that carry over between Chapters. you get plenty of those Restore staves and by the time status staves start becoming a thing several of your mages can also run restore staves. If I recall correctly they do restore at the end of a chapter and in escape maps someone can rescue Leaf and finish the map. You can also avoid them by using your own Silence and Sleep staves, You don't fight that many enemies with Berserk staves only in the last 3 chapters or so. remember everything the enemy uses against you is something you can use against them. I recall Berserkering one of the dreadlords or the minions around them on the Final chapter.

This still has the issue of knowing to take these items. Capturing all the time is a frustrating experience to be honest, and it's not apparent earlier on just how much you need to take, and the supply's not infinite. And seize maps still have that issue with Leaf. Though I will admit not knowing multiple can escape like that on your side.

And yeah, statuses passing between chapters just sounds horrible.

[SalShich10N]

No. But it ain't like I have to play them to know that FE4's ginormous maps or FE5's permanent status effects and fatigue are very heinous design flaws. As Dayni said, the permanent status effects could easily push you into an unwinnable situation. And there's the way escape maps are in FE5, as if I needed more reasons to utterly despise it.

FE4 only has 12 maps total and your lord can solo 6 of them if so you desire. The game allows you save at the begging of every turn too and you can have multiple saves, and since you're going to be using an emulator just map the speed up to a key for the enemy turn. It looks like bad design because you haven't tried it and are looking at it from a very narrow perspective, but it all comes together neatly. There literally isn't a game more hype about stats and classes than FE4, don't miss out.

This still has the issue of knowing to take these items. Capturing all the time is a frustrating experience to be honest, and it's not apparent earlier on just how much you need to take, and the supply's not infinite. And seize maps still have that issue with Leaf. Though I will admit not knowing multiple can escape like that on your side.

And yeah, statuses passing between chapters just sounds horrible.

Well if you're like me I just always take the Restore staff as part of the staple staves your designated full time staffer has in every game. It's not event that hard you can just look around if it's not a gaiden chapter. Capturing all the time IS the fun part of the game, specially, at least for me. I'm the kinda guy who hoards a lot of stuff that I end up selling afterwards. Supply might not be infinite but all those silly units you recruited that aren't using are good 5 slot pockets.

Staffers do not target Leaf all that much, they usually target units with lowest res first, which means Brighton, Othin, Havan, people like that are the ones who get hit more often, but even then you can prepare for that... IF they hit, of course. I never really ran into any serious problems with status staves, really, a the point Berserk staves appeared I was excited because I actually got the chance to make those enemy dark mages duke it out among themselves. Seriously complaining about status staves in this game feels odd to me, like I had many MANY more difficulties with enemy status effects in FE7's Chapter 27 Hard mode and FE8's chapter 14 Ephraim than in the entirety of Thracia.

[Shadow Mir]

FE4 only has 12 maps total and your lord can solo 6 of them if so you desire. The game allows you save at the begging of every turn too and you can have multiple saves, and since you're going to be using an emulator just map the speed up to a key for the enemy turn. It looks like bad design because you haven't tried it and are looking at it from a very narrow perspective, but it all comes together neatly. There literally isn't a game more hype about stats and classes than FE4, don't miss out.

*scoffs* You didn't earnestly think the bloated maps were the only issue I had with FE4, did you? Because they weren't.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SalShich10N]

*scoffs* You didn't earnestly think the bloated maps were the only issue I had with FE4, did you? Because they weren't.

Well gee I cannot read your mind, boy. No one will understand you if you don't explain yourself. Elaborate.

[Carmine Sword]

Given how much he complains about Fire Emblem I don't know why he hangs out so much on a Fire Emblem fan-site.

[Shadow Mir]

Well gee I cannot read your mind, boy. No one will understand you if you don't explain yourself. Elaborate.

Aside from the maps, FE4's mechanics, especially the fixed weapon ranks, the lack of trading, and the individual money system, kill its playability. Those, along with the slooooooow enemy phases (because every enemy army has their own turn), would add up to a frustrating experience.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[IcyRaven93]

Of the ones I played, Genealogy of the Holy War (Fire Emblem 4) and Binding Blade (Fire Emblem 6) take the cake.

In 4, there's the gigantic maps that make it hard for me to keep track of everyone, thus, I usually end up losing someone and feeling bad about it. In general, the map design seems to screw over your foot units.

As for 6, the large amount of subpar units plus my general terrible luck with the RNG dooms me in Chapter 4... and that's still early in the game.

[DoctorSpectrum]

I can't recall anything specific about Binding Blade because it's been a few years since I've played it, but the fact that I don't want to play it again says something to me about its difficulty. I recall it being fairly nuts with the RNG.

I've just started playing Radiant Dawn this weekend and I'm finding it to be a bit difficult (seriously, Leonardo, what the hell kind of archer can't take out a pegasus knight?) but I hear it gets better later on.

For the "frustrating" part of the thread title, I'll give Conquest an honourable mention for

not allowing saving between the penultimate and final levels

[Harvey]

Of the ones I played, Genealogy of the Holy War (Fire Emblem 4) and Binding Blade (Fire Emblem 6) take the cake.

In 4, there's the gigantic maps that make it hard for me to keep track of everyone, thus, I usually end up losing someone and feeling bad about it. In general, the map design seems to screw over your foot units.

As for 6, the large amount of subpar units plus my general terrible luck with the RNG dooms me in Chapter 4... and that's still early in the game.

Compared to Binding Blade, Holy war is very tolerable. For starters, since the maps are the biggest in any FE game, you can use battle saves. Then you have well balanced characters. Granted, you still have a few of them that are average but they don't compare to the ones that Binding Blade is stuck with.

Now I have beaten Binding Blade and honestly, its my least favorite Fire Emblem game atleast in the gameplay wise next to Birthright. There's too many balancing issues that Binding Blade has that is simply just pointless in the end. First off, this game has three endings and to get either the normal or the best ending, you need to do all the side quests that the game offers you and you only get one shot at doing it and obtaining most of these sidequests are so damn cryptic that I don't think you can figure it out on your first play through.

Then the game wants you to get all the legendary weapons which you are not suppose to destroy them till the end btw, While saving up these legendary weapons can help make the last two chapters a cakewalk, the remaining chapters before that are a nightmare to deal with. The maps are long and tend to drag a whole lot with the game having cheap reinforcements and a huge arsenal of enemy units.

Now I didn't have much of an issue with limited resources as that alone I think was done fairly well..but I do think that its very stingy with your promotional items of which some come near the late game that its simply pointless to have them at that time. There's honestly very little reason to go to the arena unless you want quick buck.

The supports are pointless here. while its passable, the supports conversations aren't anywhere near as fun as the other FE games out there. Sure, some are well thought out but this is so few and far between. But really, even getting the supports are tedious because they take forever in doing so.

Then the game has so many units that are unbalanced in many ways. If their growth rates are bad, their bases are good and if their bases are bad, their growth rates are good....its like this game can't have units that have both of them good except for some of the units that you get at fair times.

Then there's the hit rate issue that FE6 has done terribly. Axe units are terrible here so there's little to no reason to have axe users here unless if its to rip off lancers in which case, it still doesn't add up. I once was having Lillina beating a bow user with a hit rate of 94% and that archer somehow missed the attack!

How the hell can a axe wielder hit Roy with a 29% hit rate? and how the hell did the final boss miss Roy's attack if his hit rate was 91%?

And Roy....oh man....Roy is NOT our boy. Even Marth is better than him in so many aspects. This unit is very weak and is out right terrible and can't do so much until the endgame. Even if his promotion starts late, his base stats are horrendous. Very often I find myself forgetting that I have to move Roy around...he's that terrible. I wouldn't mind his late promotion if he was well thought out to begin with...infact, his weak stats almost ruins the overall story of Binding Blade. How the hell can Roy be considered being a lord? I feel that the Pharae has gone soft on him that they don't wanna hurt his feelings or something....

And finally, I want to stress how long the maps are in this game....damn. If it wasn't for the harsh reinforcements that happen throughtout the game, I would find this game tore able.

And I'd like to stress again even though I mentioned it briefly and in previous posts....the maps are too damn LONG. Many of them drag and it doesn't help that some maps especially the gaiden chapters have gimmicks that are random and appear at the worst times ever.

Now in your defense, you will say that this is what FE is suppose to be which is to focus on its main audience and I guess I have to agree that point which is why I think this game will never get a localization because I think the devs must have realized that this game is too difficult compared to other FE games.

Hey man, I'm all for FE games being hard and all but I feel that Conquest fixes all the issues that I had with FE6 even if it means that its a different game of its own.

But despite the game play having several issues, this is still a solid game of its own simply because it perfects the other things. The story is solid than ever although not as deep as say Holy War, the visuals and animations are amazing and the soundtrack is very memorable even for the GBA audio. Too bad that the gameplay alone makes this game like not wanting to play again.

[Irysa]

have you considered that if maps take too long or you're getting swamped in "hurry the fuck up" reinforcements, you should play to beat maps faster? the objective is seize for 99% of the game, you dont need to rout the enemy.

[DoctorSpectrum]

have you considered that if maps take too long or you're getting swamped in "hurry the fuck up" reinforcements, you should play to beat maps faster? the objective is seize for 99% of the game, you dont need to rout the enemy.

I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly have the mindset of "beat as many enemies as possible for max EXP", so unless the level's ridiculously frustrating I usually go for killing them all.

[Magical Glace]

Compared to Binding Blade, Holy war is very tolerable. For starters, since the maps are the biggest in any FE game, you can use battle saves. Then you have well balanced characters. Granted, you still have a few of them that are average but they don't compare to the ones that Binding Blade is stuck with.

->Genealogy

->Balanced

Genealogy is horse Emblem and Holy Weapon Emblem.

No FE game is free of Balance problems. Ever.

Now I have beaten Binding Blade and honestly, its my least favorite Fire Emblem game atleast in the gameplay wise next to Birthright. There's too many balancing issues that Binding Blade has that is simply just pointless in the end. First off, this game has three endings and to get either the normal or the best ending, you need to do all the side quests that the game offers you and you only get one shot at doing it and obtaining most of these sidequests are so damn cryptic that I don't think you can figure it out on your first play through.

If you pass up the turn limit, the game will pause the map to tell you that the enemies blocked off the Holy Weapon or whatever. For example:

(Chapter 20 Illia)

26th Turn

Roy:

“The blizzard is picking up… This might take longer than we expected. We should head for Bern as soon as we take the castle.”

(Note: Once you see this scene, you won’t be able to go to Ch 20B Gaiden.)

The game's plot up to Chapter 8 is "save Lilina"

Protecting the clearly benevolent Douglas might be the only hard one to figure out.

Then the game wants you to get all the legendary weapons which you are not suppose to destroy them till the end btw, While saving up these legendary weapons can help make the last two chapters a cakewalk, the remaining chapters before that are a nightmare to deal with. The maps are long and tend to drag a whole lot with the game having cheap reinforcements and a huge arsenal of enemy units.

Tbh saving the Divine Weapons isn't difficult, and they don't really contribute much to earlier chapters something else couldn't

Even the dragons can be easily taken without them if you have a decent mage.

Arguing in favor of FE4 with "FE6's maps are long" isn't really sensible? FE4's maps are longer by a good margin, and they're often even more draggy than 6's (at least imo).

Not going to argue ambush spawns aren't cheap, since admittedly they are. The presence of just reinforcements, however, isn't really cheap.

Now I didn't have much of an issue with limited resources as that alone I think was done fairly well..but I do think that its very stingy with your promotional items of which some come near the late game that its simply pointless to have them at that time. There's honestly very little reason to go to the arena unless you want quick buck.

The arena is much more useful than a quick buck if you choose to exploit it. It's free unlimited EXP and Gold if you stall there. Which admittedly can take out a lot of challenge.

The supports are pointless here. while its passable, the supports conversations aren't anywhere near as fun as the other FE games out there. Sure, some are well thought out but this is so few and far between. But really, even getting the supports are tedious because they take forever in doing so.

The conversations themselves are a matter of opinion, so not going to argue. There are, however, some practical supports Gameplaywise in FE6 (Roy/Wolt, Roy/Lilina, Allen/Lance, and Clarine/Rutger pop to mind). Roy/Lilina in particular is the fastest support in the game, 56+4 is basically instant C with high growth to boot.

Then the game has so many units that are unbalanced in many ways. If their growth rates are bad, their bases are good and if their bases are bad, their growth rates are good....its like this game can't have units that have both of them good except for some of the units that you get at fair times.

Because making both be good would be broken?

Like FE6 has balance problems but that's not it.

Then there's the hit rate issue that FE6 has done terribly. Axe units are terrible here so there's little to no reason to have axe users here unless if its to rip off lancers in which case, it still doesn't add up. I once was having Lillina beating a bow user with a hit rate of 94% and that archer somehow missed the attack!

The RNG isn't really FE6's fault. It's... a random number generator, so if there's a chance, it can happen. 94% isn't an instant hit and 5% isn't an instant miss. That's true for all FE games.

As for axes, personally, I think the lower hit rates helps counteract the fact Lances/Axes get easily available 1-2 range weapons when Swords don't. It's a problem for them, but it gives swords a boost it needs to stand out in spite of that glaring flaw.

Of course, weapon balancing was at its best in FE10 imo, because it's the only FE that was "shit, swords need something to help them do range" and added weapons to fix that.

How the hell can a axe wielder hit Roy with a 29% hit rate? and how the hell did the final boss miss Roy's attack if his hit rate was 91%?

Because RNG. It's not supposed to be impossible for either to happen and its naturally a gamble. Do not blame these happenings on 6 specifically because that's rather unfair.

If anything, true hit makes the RNG player favored in 6.

And Roy....oh man....Roy is NOT our boy. Even Marth is better than him in so many aspects. This unit is very weak and is out right terrible and can't do so much until the endgame. Even if his promotion starts late, his base stats are horrendous. Very often I find myself forgetting that I have to move Roy around...he's that terrible. I wouldn't mind his late promotion if he was well thought out to begin with...infact, his weak stats almost ruins the overall story of Binding Blade. How the hell can Roy be considered being a lord? I feel that the Pharae has gone soft on him that they don't wanna hurt his feelings or something....

Roy's a terrible unit, but that has nothing to do with where he was born and the situation he was thrust into. Roy's the heir of Pherae because he's Eliwood's kid, that's how thrones work. Hector left him in charge of Lycia's Army because he was the only healthy male of status around at the time.

What's more, Roy being given the status of leader of the Etrurian Army is a good decision for them. Because he's actually talented at leading and rational, and by that point had already proven that.

Leadership has NOTHING to do with his poor unit ability.

And finally, I want to stress how long the maps are in this game....damn. If it wasn't for the harsh reinforcements that happen throughtout the game, I would find this game tore able.

And I'd like to stress again even though I mentioned it briefly and in previous posts....the maps are too damn LONG. Many of them drag and it doesn't help that some maps especially the gaiden chapters have gimmicks that are random and appear at the worst times ever.

Again, if you're trying to advocate Genealogy over FE6, how is long maps a valid complaint in FE4's favor? FE6's maps are shorter.

Now in your defense, you will say that this is what FE is suppose to be which is to focus on its main audience and I guess I have to agree that point which is why I think this game will never get a localization because I think the devs must have realized that this game is too difficult compared to other FE games.

I mean they were willing to localize FE13's bullshit that is Luna+, and FE6 Normal isn't even that hard.

The reason it was passed up was more likely the presence of the beginner catered FE7's development, since FE6 isn't a good entry point, if it was localized it would be the first. If FE6 was remade now? I'd say it'd be localized.

The game was victim of bad timing.

Hey man, I'm all for FE games being hard and all but I feel that Conquest fixes all the issues that I had with FE6 even if it means that its a different game of its own.

No comment because haven't played.

[ping]

Then there's the hit rate issue that FE6 has done terribly. Axe units are terrible here so there's little to no reason to have axe users here unless if its to rip off lancers in which case, it still doesn't add up. I once was having Lillina beating a bow user with a hit rate of 94% and that archer somehow missed the attack!

How the hell can a axe wielder hit Roy with a 29% hit rate? and how the hell did the final boss miss Roy's attack if his hit rate was 91%?

Dude, those are dice rolls. Of course you will encounter unexpected outcomes from time to time. I'll admit that missing a hit>90 is really unlucky, but it still doesn't change the fact that FE6 uses the very same RNG as the other GBA games (and the same true hit system as FE7-12). Calling out specifically FE6 on that doesn't make any sense.

In my opinion, the frustrating part about FE6 is mostly the game not telling you important stuff. You mentioned the legendary weapons and how you mustn't let them break, but this is also true with ambush spawns (although those aren't a FE6 exclusive either) and recruitments (e.g. Lilina recruiting Gonzales and Garret who don't even spawn early in the fight).

And Roy....oh man....Roy is NOT our boy. Even Marth is better than him in so many aspects. This unit is very weak and is out right terrible and can't do so much until the endgame. Even if his promotion starts late, his base stats are horrendous. Very often I find myself forgetting that I have to move Roy around...he's that terrible. I wouldn't mind his late promotion if he was well thought out to begin with...infact, his weak stats almost ruins the overall story of Binding Blade. How the hell can Roy be considered being a lord? I feel that the Pharae has gone soft on him that they don't wanna hurt his feelings or something....

I thought FE11!Marth is his only weak incarnation? :D

I'm not sure how Roy's stats could threaten to ruin the story. First, he's not even famed ingame to be a powerful fighter - he's just considered to be quite intelligent and charismatic. Second, even if there was a disparity, that would be just the zillionth example of a RPG character's stats not matching his rep. The young village boy who just picked up a sword two months ago will almost always end up stronger than the fabled hero from the war five years ago.

Can't argue that the super late promotion is dumb, though.

Then the game has so many units that are unbalanced in many ways. If their growth rates are bad, their bases are good and if their bases are bad, their growth rates are good....its like this game can't have units that have both of them good except for some of the units that you get at fair times.

I agree that FE6 has huge balancing issues, but this is very definitely not the reason I would have come up with. I like how almost every prepromote has bad growth rates - it gives them (generally speaking) a different role: To help out for a limited time, instead of starting slow and taking off later.

Instead, I dislike how many characters are strictly worse than others, like for example Wendy being just worse than Bors and both being severly outclassed by cavaliers. Or how HM bonuses basically make the gap between strong and weak characters even bigger. Really, FE6 has many issues in that regard, but the basic idea of giving different characters their own sweet spots (like Marcus in the earlygame or Echidna in the midgame) is better than just trying to make every character equally viable from recruitment til endgame.

[Augestein]

I'm not sure how Roy's stats could threaten to ruin the story. First, he's not even famed ingame to be a powerful fighter - he's just considered to be quite intelligent and charismatic. Second, even if there was a disparity, that would be just the zillionth example of a RPG character's stats not matching his rep. The young village boy who just picked up a sword two months ago will almost always end up stronger than the fabled hero from the war five years ago.

Actually Roy is probably considered kinda weak tbh. No one ever talks about his ability to fight. Ever. His teacher was a mage, and she stated that he was terrible with magic, so we can only imagine how disastrous he was as one. Lilina even makes fun of his swordplay with Durandal when Roy wonders if he'll be good enough to wield it. Now granted it's a joke, but if he was a great swordsman, there wouldn't be a reason to joke about it.

Instead, I dislike how many characters are strictly worse than others, like for example Wendy being just worse than Bors and both being severly outclassed by cavaliers. Or how HM bonuses basically make the gap between strong and weak characters even bigger. Really, FE6 has many issues in that regard, but the basic idea of giving different characters their own sweet spots (like Marcus in the earlygame or Echidna in the midgame) is better than just trying to make every character equally viable from recruitment til endgame.

Miredy/Milady being a unit that gets HM bonus for instance? What a joke. There's a lot of "what the hell were they thinking?" Units in FE6, and that's why that one kind of annoys me. At least with FE1 it was their first game. There's no excuse getting that far in the series and doing some of that garbage.

[Harvey]

->Genealogy

->Balanced

Genealogy is horse Emblem and Holy Weapon Emblem.

No FE game is free of Balance problems. Ever.

You have many horse units because the maps are big and horses have so much of mobility so of course you're to expect horses here as it makes a lot of sense.

As for balance problems, Fates fixes the balance issues even though there are some minor issues here and there.

If you pass up the turn limit, the game will pause the map to tell you that the enemies blocked off the Holy Weapon or whatever. For example:

(Chapter 20 Illia)

26th Turn

Roy:

“The blizzard is picking up… This might take longer than we expected. We should head for Bern as soon as we take the castle.”

(Note: Once you see this scene, you won’t be able to go to Ch 20B Gaiden.)

The game's plot up to Chapter 8 is "save Lilina"

Protecting the clearly benevolent Douglas might be the only hard one to figure out.

Tbh saving the Divine Weapons isn't difficult, and they don't really contribute much to earlier chapters something else couldn't

Even the dragons can be easily taken without them if you have a decent mage.

Ok..and just how is that suppose to prompt me to retry the damn level over again inorder to get the best ending? Does it say game over? Does the whole thing end like that? Just how exactly?

"Arguing in favor of FE4 with "FE6's maps are long" isn't really sensible? FE4's maps are longer by a good margin, and they're often even more draggy than 6's (at least imo)."

The main issue that I have with the maps in FE6 is how big the maps are for something that's made on a handheld. Now I understand that there are very hardcore people who can take a lot of time to play this kind of thing but...i dunno, I guess I find it difficult for long maps being on a handheld cause like its basically a console type game being on a handheld.

I agree that such long maps in FE4 can drag at times which is why you have battle saves there. Chapters are shortened to compensate for such lengthy maps. Even the prologue is fairly long.

"Not going to argue ambush spawns aren't cheap, since admittedly they are. The presence of just reinforcements, however, isn't really cheap."

Oh really? Explain the atrocity that Chapter 21 has. I'd rather play Chapter 23 10 times than that horrible chapter!

"The arena is much more useful than a quick buck if you choose to exploit it. It's free unlimited EXP and Gold if you stall there. Which admittedly can take out a lot of challenge."

Yeah...good luck grinding units which if you face a tough opponent kills you like in one blow....had to retry again after Rutger lost from a swordsmaster.....

The conversations themselves are a matter of opinion, so not going to argue. There are, however, some practical supports Gameplaywise in FE6 (Roy/Wolt, Roy/Lilina, Allen/Lance, and Clarine/Rutger pop to mind). Roy/Lilina in particular is the fastest support in the game, 56+4 is basically instant C with high growth to boot.

So why not apply that to all units? Why is it that only two units get fast supports?

"Because making both be good would be broken?

Like FE6 has balance problems but that's not it."

Then what is it then? Clearly the rooster has several issues that you face throughtout. You keep saying that its not the issue with the character balance when majority of the balance IS the character balance.

The RNG isn't really FE6's fault. It's... a random number generator, so if there's a chance, it can happen. 94% isn't an instant hit and 5% isn't an instant miss. That's true for all FE games.

Isn't random number generator suppose to be for leveling up?

"As for axes, personally, I think the lower hit rates helps counteract the fact Lances/Axes get easily available 1-2 range weapons when Swords don't. It's a problem for them, but it gives swords a boost it needs to stand out in spite of that glaring flaw.

Of course, weapon balancing was at its best in FE10 imo, because it's the only FE that was "shit, swords need something to help them do range" and added weapons to fix that."

You do get 1-2 range swords...problem is that to make good use of them, you need great magic users who can use swords like that and this game doesn't seem to have magic users that can use swords.

"Because RNG. It's not supposed to be impossible for either to happen and its naturally a gamble. Do not blame these happenings on 6 specifically because that's rather unfair.

If anything, true hit makes the RNG player favored in 6."

Ok a good point. But that still doesn't defend the statement that axe users have low hit rates and its not like any other FE game where hit rates regardless of what weapon you use is fairly balanced unlike here where it isn't.

Roy's a terrible unit, but that has nothing to do with where he was born and the situation he was thrust into. Roy's the heir of Pherae because he's Eliwood's kid, that's how thrones work. Hector left him in charge of Lycia's Army because he was the only healthy male of status around at the time.

What's more, Roy being given the status of leader of the Etrurian Army is a good decision for them. Because he's actually talented at leading and rational, and by that point had already proven that.

Leadership has NOTHING to do with his poor unit ability.

Actually, it kinda does. If you're very own lord is incapable of taking more than 1 hit, then you're leader himself isn't even worth being a leader because of it. It just shows how much of effort he trained with Celicia and yet, that didn't do him any good. He makes Seliph look like the better leader.

"Not to mention that it also makes the story a bit jarring. People praise the living hell out of him when Rutger and Dieck should get all the credit."

"Again, if you're trying to advocate Genealogy over FE6, how is long maps a valid complaint in FE4's favor? FE6's maps are shorter."

Very simple, FE4 is a console game but FE6 isn't. The maps in FE6 drag very often compared to FE4. While FE4 has long maps, its better because

1. Units are balanced and you get serviceable ones at the right times.

2. You have battle saves which make the experience more tolerable than FE6. In the latter, you HAVE to beat the chapter in one sitting with no save states and while you can argue that that IS the point of FE classic, then balance the game right to even agree with that point....think about that for a second. Atleast if it was something like Birthright, i can put up with it but in the end, its like a beta version of Conquest only ending up being more harder than Conquest. Atleast Conquest has casual mode unlike FE6 here.

"I mean they were willing to localize FE13's bullshit that is Luna+, and FE6 Normal isn't even that hard."

That's your perspective. But for me, it turned out to be even HARDER than Conquest.

"The reason it was passed up was more likely the presence of the beginner catered FE7's development, since FE6 isn't a good entry point, if it was localized it would be the first. If FE6 was remade now? I'd say it'd be localized.

The game was victim of bad timing."

No it wasn't. Infact the game had the opportunity to be localized. The reason its not is that it is notoriously difficult for both FE standards and for your typical TRPG game out there. Its probably the amount of criticism that FE6 had that made Nintendo release FE7 instead which sold more than FE6.

[Gradivus.]

the fixed weapon ranks, the lack of trading, and the individual money system, kill its playability.

Do tell how any of these ruin playability.