Hardest & frustrating FE games ever

[Shadow Mir]

Well, I just promoted Lugh, Lillina and Clarine and honestly, promoting your healer unless you want a sort of defensive unit isn't really worth it considering that you already have lugh and lillina on your side.

I disagree - for one, a healer that's capable of fighting is a better improvement than giving a Mage the ability to use staves, for one, and second, with "snail's pace" being too kind in terms of describing how slow Wexp growth is, you might as well forget about getting Lugh or Lilina to a respectable staff rank.

[Refa]

I never had trouble with Chapter 4 in FE6 Hard. I actually find FE6 Chapter 4 easier than FE7 Chapter 14.

You find it...easier to face overleveled units by using your entire army over just throwing Marcus at 90% of the map?

[SalShich10N]

Basically every FE has someone to break things. Rutger in 6, Forseti/Holesty tome in 4, Seth in 8, etc.

The most balanced FE I can think of is 7 and even that is hardly perfect. 7 has things like Pent in one basket and Karla or Jaffar in another, and a bunch of serviceable but not game-breaking units.

FE7 is way too easy, though, so you don't need much to break it even on Hector Hard Mode. Marcus is 3-4 pings in speed, or rather a speedwing, from doubling pretty much any common mook in the game. All he really needs is 15 speed and the game doesn't stops throwing unpromoted enemies at you all the way until the chapter before the endgame. He also has complete Weapon Triangle control plus B rank in axes at base so he's the only good axe user until Hector gets gong and has very good options to level up early on with bosses. He's kind of a proto-Seth, but better than Titania. Raven can be promoted early for hand axes which can break the game. Pent and Hawkeye are great prepromoted units, although they come late.

You can also over-level units in Lyn's mode and give them stat boosters, like getting Serra to level 18 (I did that), break Sain/Kent's weapons on bosses for experience, or give Flora an Energy Ring and an Angel's Robe.

[Magical Glace]

You find it...easier to face overleveled units by using your entire army over just throwing Marcus at 90% of the map?

I never really found FE6 Hard Chapter 4 as bad as people make it out to be, compared to FE7 Chapter 14, at least in part due to self imposed challenges on my part. I dequip Marcus in both games as a self-imposed challenge, so maybe I'm a bit skewed from that. That aside, I always felt I had less to worry about in FE6. The pirates aren't an issue, I can dump Chad on the southernmost fort with Shanna and let him go to town, so there's less need to rush to help villages in FE6 Chapter 4. I don't need to worry about a NPC running off to suicide, because Clarine's AI prioritizes reaching Roy and enemies don't attack her, while Erk can be killed if his AI makes a wrong move before I can get Serra to him. Also FE7's version has flyers, which can be a bit annoying as well.

Again, this might just be the self-imposed limit biasing me.

FE7 is way too easy, though, so you don't need much to break it even on Hector Hard Mode. Marcus is 3-4 pings in speed, or rather a speedwing, from doubling pretty much any common mook in the game. All he really needs is 15 speed and the game doesn't stops throwing unpromoted enemies at you all the way until the chapter before the endgame. He also has complete Weapon Triangle control plus B rank in axes at base so he's the only good axe user until Hector gets gong and has very good options to level up early on with bosses. He's kind of a proto-Seth, but better than Titania. Raven can be promoted early for hand axes which can break the game. Pent and Hawkeye are great prepromoted units, although they come late.

You can also over-level units in Lyn's mode and give them stat boosters, like getting Serra to level 18 (I did that), break Sain/Kent's weapons on bosses for experience, or give Flora an Energy Ring and an Angel's Robe.

Again, it's not perfect, but I usually consider it better than most FE's in terms of character balancing.

How is getting the promotion item late such an issue when you have to struggle grinding those units good enough in the first place? As I've mentioned before, nearly every single unit besides the first chapter starts at lv 1. The only units that start properly are Rutger, Dieck, Geese, Pacaval and Milady.

Well, I just promoted Lugh, Lillina and Clarine and honestly, promoting your healer unless you want a sort of defensive unit isn't really worth it considering that you already have lugh and lillina on your side.

the other issue to promote them is how nearly every single unit you get here starts at lv 1. It may be easy grinding for some units but really....why? I had so much of problems with Lugh as soon as I got him the first time and it took me forever to get him promoted at good levels...not only because his base growths are shaky but because I have to raise other weak units for no reason. I wanted to use Wolt as I like the character but then I realized that no matter what, he won't do any good.

And now I have to drag Shanna and Zealot in chapter 20 inorder to get the 20 gaiden chapter. I never used Zealot and Shanna was fun while she was around but she isn't even at lv 15 even. Granted, I can just keep em off battle as they won't do much but that means that I gotta now figure out who to remove for this chapter. Alance just got promoted and Lance is lv 2 with Allen being around 5 I think. And somehow Niime gets a great timing levelling unlike majority of the units whose levels always start at 1-5.

Many enemies have crap Res, Lugh and Lilina can take advantage of that easily. Lugh doesn't even join that late lol, and Lilina comes in a chapter full of chokepoints that can be used to defend her as she picks things off.

Promoting Healers is always useful. Healers level really sloooooooooooooowly prior to promotion but they actually have an EXP boost offensively (iirc?) on top of decent growth. They can become really good really fast. In addition, Anima/Light level WILL go up faster than Staff level will. Staff levels can't be "doubled" and staves more situational, which results in them being really gosh darn slow to grow on your promoted Lugh/Lilina.

...You only need one of Shanna, Zealot or Tate to come along in 20A for the sake of getting Juno.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[SalShich10N]

Again, it's not perfect, but I usually consider it better than most FE's in terms of character balancing.

Fire Emblem overall is not too hot in the unit balance department. Really out of all the units you get between chapter 1-4 only Eliwood, Hector, Oswin, Marcus and maybe Rebecca are worth leveling up. The rest get replaced or outclassed rather easily and even Oswin himself might get dropped because he only has 4-5 movement tops. That is Lowen, Dorcas, Bartre, Guy, Erk and Serra who are all terrible units. I mean, I love Serra and all, but she's in no way better than Priscilla, Pent or Lucious after promoting for staves. Hell Mattew gets replaced by Legault, who then gets replaced by Jaffar in succession. Afterwards Isadora, Wallace, Geitz without HM bonuses, Louise, Karel, Vaida and Karla are all pretty damn bad. Heath, Rath and Farina would be better if they didn't arrived so damn late. The teams pretty much everyone uses in FE7 are very cookie cutter.

I think the only game with really good unit balance in the series is FE9, and then that's because PoR is even easier and BEXp patches anything up.

[Augestein]

Fire Emblem overall is not too hot in the unit balance department. Really out of all the units you get between chapter 1-4 only Eliwood, Hector, Oswin, Marcus and maybe Rebecca are worth leveling up. The rest get replaced or outclassed rather easily and even Oswin himself might get dropped because he only has 4-5 movement tops. That is Lowen, Dorcas, Bartre, Guy, Erk and Serra who are all terrible units. I mean, I love Serra and all, but she's in no way better than Priscilla, Pent or Lucious after promoting for staves. Hell Mattew gets replaced by Legault, who then gets replaced by Jaffar in succession. Afterwards Isadora, Wallace, Geitz without HM bonuses, Louise, Karel, Vaida and Karla are all pretty damn bad. Heath, Rath and Farina would be better if they didn't arrived so damn late. The teams pretty much everyone uses in FE7 are very cookie cutter.

I think the only game with really good unit balance in the series is FE9, and then that's because PoR is even easier and BEXp patches anything up.

Not really. None of those units are terrible. And Rebecca sure as heck isn't in the "maybe" especially when you mention Lowen not being good enough. Lowen throwing javelins is better than Rebecca at being Rebecca. It's not until level 15+ that Rebecca *might* be doing more damage than Lowen with 2 range attacks. Hell, there's an argument for Serra over Lucius in the sense that in the fact that she's not made out of card board. Sure, if you HAVE to promote Serra at 20 she's worse, but if you promote Serra at like 12-13. I'd much rather use her casually over Lucius. Prissy is better than Serra, but Prissy is like Sain and Kent levels of good. Most of these units aren't even bad. Compare that to things like the three fighters you get in FE1, or Fiona, or Wendy or Ardin... And suddenly these units look like gods. And Vaida is hardly bad. Wallace isn't bad either.Especially if you didn't Knight Crest him in Lyn Hard Mode. Louise is about the same as Rebecca. I'd honestly say she's better because of the instant A with Pent.

PoR balance isn't that great. It's even worse than FE7 in this regard. The enemies are just pathetic. All mounted units reign king and foot soldiers all suck comparatively. Shinon even with BEXP with pretty lousy, and Rolf isn't much better. Laguz are all lousy outside of Reyson with them barely even being able to fight most of the time and being stuck with 1 range and steel weapons the whole game (seriously, who in their right mind thought "let's not let the laguz get better attack?"). Muarim is okay with a demi band, but if they aren't the uber kings towards the end, they are pretty mediocre at the very end. Nasir is okay, but the rest are quite lame. There's nothing you can do to make Sothe good for instance, and even worse is that he comes after Volke so there's no reason to even use him unless Volke charging you to open doors pisses you off so much that you use Sothe. The balance in PoR is actually worse assuming you don't horde BEXP for very specific units that you don't know about. PoR has units that you can make work thanks to BEXP, but there isn't a unit outside of Nino that I find myself cursing to use on playthroughs if I take a different team.

As for frustrating chapters, I find Revelations chapters when you get to Valla frustrating in their boring design. Ugh. I hate them.

The hardest overall I'd give to Fire Emblem 5, and some of that is through questionable design tbh.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Augestein

[Shadow Mir]

...am I the only one here who found the early chapters of Revelations more irritating than the late chapters?

[SalShich10N]

Not really. None of those units are terrible. And Rebecca sure as heck isn't in the "maybe" especially when you mention Lowen not being good enough. Lowen throwing javelins is better than Rebecca at being Rebecca. It's not until level 15+ that Rebecca *might* be doing more damage than Lowen with 2 range attacks. Hell, there's an argument for Serra over Lucius in the sense that in the fact that she's not made out of card board. Sure, if you HAVE to promote Serra at 20 she's worse, but if you promote Serra at like 12-13. I'd much rather use her casually over Lucius. Prissy is better than Serra, but Prissy is like Sain and Kent levels of good. Most of these units aren't even bad. Compare that to things like the three fighters you get in FE1, or Fiona, or Wendy or Ardin... And suddenly these units look like gods. And Vaida is hardly bad. Wallace isn't bad either.Especially if you didn't Knight Crest him in Lyn Hard Mode. Louise is about the same as Rebecca. I'd honestly say she's better because of the instant A with Pent.

PoR balance isn't that great. It's even worse than FE7 in this regard. The enemies are just pathetic. All mounted units reign king and foot soldiers all suck comparatively. Shinon even with BEXP with pretty lousy, and Rolf isn't much better. Laguz are all lousy outside of Reyson with them barely even being able to fight most of the time and being stuck with 1 range and steel weapons the whole game (seriously, who in their right mind thought "let's not let the laguz get better attack?"). Muarim is okay with a demi band, but if they aren't the uber kings towards the end, they are pretty mediocre at the very end. Nasir is okay, but the rest are quite lame. There's nothing you can do to make Sothe good for instance, and even worse is that he comes after Volke so there's no reason to even use him unless Volke charging you to open doors pisses you off so much that you use Sothe. The balance in PoR is actually worse assuming you don't horde BEXP for very specific units that you don't know about. PoR has units that you can make work thanks to BEXP, but there isn't a unit outside of Nino that I find myself cursing to use on playthroughs if I take a different team.

I mentioned Lowen being bad because Marcus, Sain and Kent all outclass him. I gave Rebecca a maybe because I like having a bow user to instagib the fliers and I've had pretty good RNG with her so I was biased I'll admit that. As for Lucius it's much better to level up a Monk than to level up a priest and both are made of as much paper as the other, Serra isn't even faster. Priscilla is just a 7 move staffer and for staffing that is pretty much all that matters to put her above Serra who sports only 5 move. Vaida is too slow for the time you get her, Wallace is hardly better than Oswin and much harder to recruit.

FE1 exists on a very different realm since it's the first game so the design was still up in the air and I'm pretty sure back then the devs gave you garbage units to use as meat shields, very few units even promoted. In the remakes Barst is pretty cool. Hey, Arden can defend the castle and he's not really all that slow since he uses a sword.

I won't lie, I COMPLETELY forgot about Laguz and Sothe in FE9, my bad.

...am I the only one here who found the early chapters of Revelations more irritating than the late chapters?

No you arent. That Ice map and the boat is the entire reason why I haven't done a Lunatic run of Revelations yet.

[Shadow Mir]

No you arent. That Ice map and the boat is the entire reason why I haven't done a Lunatic run of Revelations yet.

Those weren't really the ones I had in mind (I was thinking of 7 through 9). Getting stuck with 3 units for most of the map, with only 1 unit who can take any real punishment ain't my idea of fun, and the next chapter is more of the same. Both of those maps also take way too long. And chapter 9 is a reprise of what has to be the most annoying map in Conquest.

[BANRYU]

It's been a while since I played it, but I remember Radiant Dawn being quite hard, albeit fairly so. I don't think even Conquest made me doubt my ability like RD did, haha.

Binding Blade is certainly frustrating, but it's more a result of poor design choices IMO. Not a great reason to be hard.

[Harvey]

I never really found FE6 Hard Chapter 4 as bad as people make it out to be, compared to FE7 Chapter 14, at least in part due to self imposed challenges on my part. I dequip Marcus in both games as a self-imposed challenge, so maybe I'm a bit skewed from that. That aside, I always felt I had less to worry about in FE6. The pirates aren't an issue, I can dump Chad on the southernmost fort with Shanna and let him go to town, so there's less need to rush to help villages in FE6 Chapter 4. I don't need to worry about a NPC running off to suicide, because Clarine's AI prioritizes reaching Roy and enemies don't attack her, while Erk can be killed if his AI makes a wrong move before I can get Serra to him. Also FE7's version has flyers, which can be a bit annoying as well.

Again, this might just be the self-imposed limit biasing me.

Again, it's not perfect, but I usually consider it better than most FE's in terms of character balancing.

Many enemies have crap Res, Lugh and Lilina can take advantage of that easily. Lugh doesn't even join that late lol, and Lilina comes in a chapter full of chokepoints that can be used to defend her as she picks things off.

Promoting Healers is always useful. Healers level really sloooooooooooooowly prior to promotion but they actually have an EXP boost offensively (iirc?) on top of decent growth. They can become really good really fast. In addition, Anima/Light level WILL go up faster than Staff level will. Staff levels can't be "doubled" and staves more situational, which results in them being really gosh darn slow to grow on your promoted Lugh/Lilina.

...You only need one of Shanna, Zealot or Tate to come along in 20A for the sake of getting Juno.

I agree that Lugh doesn't join late but Lillina however does. Again, not saying that having lv 1 start is but why at the wrong times?

I wonder if I can even make it all the way to the final chapter well before....

[Harvey]

I never really found FE6 Hard Chapter 4 as bad as people make it out to be, compared to FE7 Chapter 14, at least in part due to self imposed challenges on my part. I dequip Marcus in both games as a self-imposed challenge, so maybe I'm a bit skewed from that. That aside, I always felt I had less to worry about in FE6. The pirates aren't an issue, I can dump Chad on the southernmost fort with Shanna and let him go to town, so there's less need to rush to help villages in FE6 Chapter 4. I don't need to worry about a NPC running off to suicide, because Clarine's AI prioritizes reaching Roy and enemies don't attack her, while Erk can be killed if his AI makes a wrong move before I can get Serra to him. Also FE7's version has flyers, which can be a bit annoying as well.

Again, this might just be the self-imposed limit biasing me.

Again, it's not perfect, but I usually consider it better than most FE's in terms of character balancing.

Many enemies have crap Res, Lugh and Lilina can take advantage of that easily. Lugh doesn't even join that late lol, and Lilina comes in a chapter full of chokepoints that can be used to defend her as she picks things off.

Promoting Healers is always useful. Healers level really sloooooooooooooowly prior to promotion but they actually have an EXP boost offensively (iirc?) on top of decent growth. They can become really good really fast. In addition, Anima/Light level WILL go up faster than Staff level will. Staff levels can't be "doubled" and staves more situational, which results in them being really gosh darn slow to grow on your promoted Lugh/Lilina.

...You only need one of Shanna, Zealot or Tate to come along in 20A for the sake of getting Juno.

I agree that Lugh doesn't join late but Lillina however does. Again, not saying that having lv 1 start is but why at the wrong times?

I wonder if I can even make it all the way to the final chapter well before....

[Magical Glace]

I agree that Lugh doesn't join late but Lillina however does. Again, not saying that having lv 1 start is but why at the wrong times?

I wonder if I can even make it all the way to the final chapter well before....

Lilina's join situation is passable/workable. She's easy to keep out of range when she joins while still being able to get EXP with the accuracy of Fire tomes.

Wendy is far worse than Lilina as far as chapter 8 units go.

Why are you complaining about Lugh then? Lvl 1 bases work well enough in CH3

[Harvey]

I never complained about lugh. I'm complaining about how a lot of the units when you recruit them and when you reach mid game always start at lv 1 which is frustrating as hell.

[Azure Sen]

I never complained about lugh. I'm complaining about how a lot of the units when you recruit them and when you reach mid game always start at lv 1 which is frustrating as hell.

The only unit who starts at lv. 1 unpromoted at mid-game is Sophia, and by that time Raigh's probably already completely outclassed her anyway.

...am I the only one here who found the early chapters of Revelations more irritating than the late chapters?

Nope, I do too. It's a little more manageable if you're playing as female Corrin because Jakob can actually take a couple hits, at least on lower difficulties, but it's still pretty annoying.

[Harvey]

ughhh.........chapter 21 of FE6 is simply horrible.......I don't think I can beat it without save states.....

So My bro has got me Blazing Sword I think so for those of you who have played it, is it anywhere harder than FE6 or just done right?

[Punished Dayni]

ughhh.........chapter 21 of FE6 is simply horrible.......I don't think I can beat it without save states.....

So My bro has got me Blazing Sword I think so for those of you who have played it, is it anywhere harder than FE6 or just done right?

Easier by a good bit. You can get stuck on Battle Before Dawn, but that's a frustrating chapter regardless.

There's a tutorial opener that's mandatory, and that might get boring fast.

[Magical Glace]

ughhh.........chapter 21 of FE6 is simply horrible.......I don't think I can beat it without save states.....

So My bro has got me Blazing Sword I think so for those of you who have played it, is it anywhere harder than FE6 or just done right?

FE7 is deliberately designed for newcomers, unlike 6. You won't have trouble.

I do think it's inferior to 6 in terms of map design but not bad by any means (except tutorial stuff).

Edited November 17, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Shadow Mir]

Hardest: Of the ones I've played, FE5. Staves missing, status effects that don't wear off and status staves everywhere, forced dismounting indoors, etc.

Most frustrating: Conquest. It's just bogged down with way too many gimmicks that I find far more frustrating than Revelation's, because Revelation's were time consuming but they weren't annoying like Conquest's.

Not that I've ever played it, or ever will, but a lot of why you list Thracia as hard honestly makes me think it's MUCH closer to the frustrating end of the sliding scale of hard vs. frustrating.

[Azure Sen]

Not that I've ever played it, or ever will, but a lot of why you list Thracia as hard honestly makes me think it's MUCH closer to the frustrating end of the sliding scale of hard vs. frustrating.

I didn't find most of those too annoying minus the forced dismounting, and that's only because there are almost no playable foot units that can use spears. I think it also might be a perspective thing on my part; I knew what to expect going into Thracia and thus just took it as part of the experience, but I didn't expect Conquest to be as annoying as it was.

[SalShich10N]

Not that I've ever played it, or ever will, but a lot of why you list Thracia as hard honestly makes me think it's MUCH closer to the frustrating end of the sliding scale of hard vs. frustrating.

Ehh it's not so bad. For every bullshit thing the game throws at you, you get bullshit strong stuff yourself. If I had to describe it, I'd say it's kind of like Conquest Lunatic with Visit/Battle bonuses all the way up to brave/venge weapons. You literally start the game with a Brave Lance, a Brave Axe, a Tomahawk and a Levin Sword that behaves like a Silver Sword if it hits from up close, all 50 uses. Early on you too get a 5 use Hammerene, which I had two leftover uses by the end of the game. Stat caps at 20 max and you get scrolls that boost units growths by up to 30% in some stats and they stack. One even boost MOVE growth and CON growth. Hell you can steal enemy weapons, including bosses. If you see anything you like it's yours. Except bullshit dark tomes, those turn into worse tomes if you try to steal them.

Edited November 19, 2016 by SalShich10N

[Shadow Mir]

I didn't find most of those too annoying minus the forced dismounting, and that's only because there are almost no playable foot units that can use spears. I think it also might be a perspective thing on my part; I knew what to expect going into Thracia and thus just took it as part of the experience, but I didn't expect Conquest to be as annoying as it was.

The thing is, to be blunt, healing staves being able to miss is nothing short of inexcusably bad game design. And fatigue is an instant dealbreaker.

Ehh it's not so bad. For every bullshit thing the game throws at you, you get bullshit strong stuff yourself. If I had to describe it, I'd say it's kind of like Conquest Lunatic with Visit/Battle bonuses all the way up to brave/venge weapons. You literally start the game with a Brave Lance, a Brave Axe, a Tomahawk and a Levin Sword that behaves like a Silver Sword if it hits from up close, all 50 uses. Early on you too get a 5 use Hammerene, which I had two leftover uses by the end of the game. Stat caps at 20 max and you get scrolls that boost units growths by up to 30% in some stats and they stack. One even boost MOVE growth and CON growth. Hell you can steal enemy weapons, including bosses. If you see anything you like it's yours. Except bullshit dark tomes, those turn into worse tomes if you try to steal them.

I don't think those even come close to making up for BS like permanent status effects, fatigue, healing staves missing, and no guaranteed hits or misses. And why the hell did Thracia regress to 20 caps when Genealogy did away with that?? Edited November 19, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Gradivus.]

And why the hell did Thracia regress to 20 caps when Genealogy did away with that??

Why would you call 20 caps regressive? Because they're low, or because they're equal? Neither one seems like a convincing complaint, so I'm curious.

[SalShich10N]

The thing is, to be blunt, healing staves being able to miss is nothing short of inexcusably bad game design. And fatigue is an instant dealbreaker.I don't think those even come close to making up for BS like permanent status effects, fatigue, healing staves missing, and no guaranteed hits or misses. And why the hell did Thracia regress to 20 caps when Genealogy did away with that??

Healing staves have a constant hit rate, capping at 100% at around 12 skill. Healing staves can also double by the way. You can have someone fast double heal and mend staves too. Safy quickly reaches the benchmarks. This is only a problem early on, but can be patched with ease.

Fatigue is not so bad either. Leif himself is one of your powerhouses and he never tires out, the ammount of good units far exceeds the ammount of available slots of units you can bring. Indoor maps refresh mounted units fatigue and outdoor maps are good chances to refresh foot units fatigue. Fatigue is directly related to HP as well and thus combat soldiers take a lot to tire out. Gaiden chapters usually have low unit slots so they're useful for that too. There is one map that gives you several stamina drinks too.

You also have several "replacements" for each role and loads of multitasking units. Since stats cap at 20 units seldom become obsolete. For instance I dropped a female Myrmidon midgame, Makua at level 15, because I got Mareeta who was bonkers. Near the end of the game I got an extra Master Seal, promoted her as is without ever touching her since and she made it as a unit all the way to the endgame.

Don't get discouraged, Thracia is one of the fire emblems where the player has the most advantages.

[Shadow Mir]

Healing staves have a constant hit rate, capping at 100% at around 12 skill. Healing staves can also double by the way. You can have someone fast double heal and mend staves too. Safy quickly reaches the benchmarks. This is only a problem early on, but can be patched with ease.

Fatigue is not so bad either. Leif himself is one of your powerhouses and he never tires out, the ammount of good units far exceeds the ammount of available slots of units you can bring. Indoor maps refresh mounted units fatigue and outdoor maps are good chances to refresh foot units fatigue. Fatigue is directly related to HP as well and thus combat soldiers take a lot to tire out. Gaiden chapters usually have low unit slots so they're useful for that too. There is one map that gives you several stamina drinks too.

You also have several "replacements" for each role and loads of multitasking units. Since stats cap at 20 units seldom become obsolete. For instance I dropped a female Myrmidon midgame, Makua at level 15, because I got Mareeta who was bonkers. Near the end of the game I got an extra Master Seal, promoted her as is without ever touching her since and she made it as a unit all the way to the endgame.

Don't get discouraged, Thracia is one of the fire emblems where the player has the most advantages.

Harrumph. You'd have done well to not even bother trying to defend it - I VERY highly doubt you have any argument that'd make me think it's worth trying out. . . Edited November 19, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia