MisterIceTeaPeach Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 I have done a run with the worst rated units of this tierlist, and I have to say I noticed a huge difference in terms of usefulness of certain units. Astrid and Fiona turned out fantastic just by powerleveling them in 2-2 + 3-9 / part 3. I didn't even have to give them any status items. Parablossom on Astrid work perfectly. Maxed everything in level 15 already. Kyze is really good, if you just give him a speedwing. Even in HM he can double everyone with his 26 base speed. He just needs S strike quickly and maybe an energy drop to oneround stuff. In 4-P he fulfilled exact the same role Skrimir normally does: Wrecked most of the paladins. Meg could technically solo part 3 because laguz do 5-7 less damage in NM. Tormod is not too painful to train, if you forge him a fire tome. Even in HM I could train him several times without wasting too much effort. Just had to weak the enemies enough to give him the kills. He just needs a couple of speed points not to get doubled by every physical opponent. He can easily get 20 levels even without paragon. Lyre is so weak despite she got a perfect level up. She can only serve as a dodgetank, but only if her biorhythm is good. She only oneround physical enemies with double adept. That means how weak she is. Even magic users can't be onerounded. Vika is totally useless if she couldn't get a rank upgrade in part 3. She does like 6-8 to damage and is always in danger to get oneshotted by a crit. Definitely the worst unit of my picked team. Her only useful chapters are all the chapters in part 1. Well, this was only in NM, so I won't change any of my votes (except maybe Kyze's). Will try it in HM again now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 22 hours ago, Sweet_Basil said: Here's a mock-up tier list based on the heroes poll. I did it just for fun of course. God Tier Ike- 17,684 Micaiah- 13,491 Top Tier Mia- 8,946 Nephenee- 5,557 Black Knight- 4,878 Soren- 3,470 Sothe- 2,863 Haar- 2,678 Elincia- 2,502 Tibarn- 1,872 High Tier Ilyana- 1,696 Ranulf- 1,578 Shinon- 1,553 Edward- 1,446 Jill- 1,437 Mist- 1,391 Sanaki- 1,308 Nailah- 1,206 Titania- 1,169 Volke- 1,131 Naesala- 1,128 Zihark- 975 Oliver- 902 Up-Mid Tier Lucia- 861 Volug- 838 Lethe- 836 Leanne- 788 Vika- 681 Stefan- 675 Tormod- 668 Aran- 648 Mid Tier Caineghis- 616 Pelleas- 608 Heather- 599 Boyd- 587 Marcia- 527 Meg- 516 Reyson- 462 Lyre- 460 Rolf- 434 Geoffrey- 422 Leonardo- 398 Sephiran- 367 Low-Mid Tier Sigrun- 323 Astrid- 321 Oscar- 315 Laura- 312 Nolan- 297 Gatrie- 282 Muarim- 279 Rhys- 258 Mordecai- 250 Kurthnaga- 247 Kieran- 246 Skrimir- 244 Low Tier Brom- 221 Fiona- 212 Janaff- 187 Rafiel- 149 Kyza- 142 Danved- 140 Tauroneo- 137 Tanith- 129 Calill- 129 Gareth- 122 Ulki- 118 Bastian- 110 Ena- 96 Bottom Tier Nasir- 93 Giffca- 88 Makalov- 85 Renning- 85 Nealuchi- 47 So Ike and Micaiah are the only characters to break the memetic barrier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Technically, so does Mia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, ping said: Technically, so does Mia. Merely 55 more votes!.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Quote So Ike and Micaiah are the only characters to break the memetic barrier... Tbf they're the main characters of this game so it's not too surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 surprised mia topped for non-lords of all people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/It's_Over_9000! In most versions, Vegeta actually says "It's over 8000!" ;) 1 hour ago, Radiant head said: surprised mia topped for non-lords of all people I'm mostly surprised about the difference between her and the rest. That's more than 50% more votes - I didn't realize Mia was that popular. I would've expected Jill and Haar to be higher on the list, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Kyza is improved with the Speedwing, but again with resource distribution it's hard to justify giving him one with units like Haar and Titania around. Almost every unit is pretty good if you're willing to give them whatever they want without considering the cost at all. Edited February 10, 2017 by -Cynthia- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I propose Kyze > Oscar. Kyze can do damage with 0 resources, which is more than you can say for Oscar. You could give him a Lance, but that would mean weaker forged Hand Axes for Haar and Titania. Laguz generally get more mileage out of resources, because of their transformed stats and getting a flat damage increase from high weapon ranks. A team with Haar and Speed!Kyze is overall stronger than a team with Speed!Haar and Kyze. The counter-argument that Kyze is a terrible unit and you shouldn't ever deploy him is perfectly rational, but where do you draw the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Baldrick said: I propose Kyze > Oscar. Kyze can do damage with 0 resources, which is more than you can say for Oscar. You could give him a Lance, but that would mean weaker forged Hand Axes for Haar and Titania. Hide contents Laguz generally get more mileage out of resources, because of their transformed stats and getting a flat damage increase from high weapon ranks. A team with Haar and Speed!Kyze is overall stronger than a team with Speed!Haar and Kyze. The counter-argument that Kyze is a terrible unit and you shouldn't ever deploy him is perfectly rational, but where do you draw the line? Exactly where "communist emblem comes around." It's easy to justify giving Kyze a speedwing if you're planning on using him because he sucks significantly less with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The cost of basic lances is negligible compared to the highly limited number of Speedwings the army has available. Kyza's a good choice for a Speedwing if you plan to use him, sure, but a team that doesn't plan to use him will give the Speedwing to someone else and be better off for it. Thus if you're going to consider Kyza with a Speedwing, you should be comparing him to other units with a Speedwing or resource of comparable value, and most of them are still better than him then. Speedwing Kyza (having used him) still hits a wall in endgame when 30 speed stops being good enough to double. I feel like if you're going to show a unit significant favouritism they should at least turn into a decent endgame candidate for your trouble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said: The cost of basic lances is negligible compared to the highly limited number of Speedwings the army has available. Kyza's a good choice for a Speedwing if you plan to use him, sure, but a team that doesn't plan to use him will give the Speedwing to someone else and be better off for it. Thus if you're going to consider Kyza with a Speedwing, you should be comparing him to other units with a Speedwing or resource of comparable value, and most of them are still better than him then. Speedwing Kyza (having used him) still hits a wall in endgame when 30 speed stops being good enough to double. I feel like if you're going to show a unit significant favouritism they should at least turn into a decent endgame candidate for your trouble... Yeah, and that goes without saying. The fact of the matter is that we still have to consider a world where we decide to use them. Otherwise we can't even begin to talk about characters that stand no real chance of being deployed under a standard playthrough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Personally I simply always assume all characters have equal and unrestricted access to all weapons so long as they can be acquired without penalty. After all, if, say, Oscar is sucking with a forged silver axe, what's stopping you from handing it off to Jill or whoever? The only exception to this is unique weapons but even then I only penalize people if they can't function without it. Another potential flaw with 'Коммунистическая эмблема'. If you do your best to avoid spending resources... you end up with a ton of unspent resources. Using a speed wing on Gatrie may be a terrible idea but it beats leaving the wing to sit around and rot. Even selling the wing to buy Fiona a pimped out lance is a better option than not using it because it's 'unfair' and what-not. Edit: I feel the need to elaborate. No matter how good or bad a unit is we should ALWAYS be decking them out as best we can and it should NEVER count against them. If you have access to silver weapons and someone can wield them, BUY THEM A SILVER WEAPON! It only counts 'against' them if they 1) Struggle without the weapon and 2) said weapon can't be easily obtained. Likewise, with items, it's okay to hold on to an item if you have a 'better' use for it, but it would be better to waste the spirit dusts on a melee fighter to get them to BEXP abuse earlier than to just sit on them and go 'nope. Not gonna.' All items should be used and a unit should never be penalized for taking any amount of items, just any amount that would drastically negatively affect other units. Edited February 15, 2017 by Snowy_One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Talking about Oscar, he's actually a lot more badass than people give him credit for. He's pretty much 3rd next to Haar & Tiamat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 earth affinity and horse is rad, but silver knight has meh caps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 You do realise it's actually anywhere as bad as people once made it out to be, right? 31 AS stops doubling at 4-4. It still doubles throughout most of Part 4. People put too much weight at Endgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) i meant to say his tier 2 caps i actually like him in endgame, because triangle attacking bosses is fun as hell Edited February 23, 2017 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 24 AS only fails to double at 3-4 & 3-5, at which point you can already promote him at 3-8 for 26 AS (which doubles all of Part 3). When people say "caps", they pretty much just mean "Spd cap". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 yeah, though that requires the master crown, doesn't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 yeah because haar is useless without it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Looking at my votes and noticed a difference of 1.5 points between Oscar and Titania. I don't know what I was thinking right there. Seriously T Oscar > NT Titania because he can double every generic except for swordmasters and can even oneround snipers with the steel great lance. I overrated Titania a bit (I mean she can't double anyone except for axe and maybe lance generals and thunder sages) and underrated Oscar. A difference of 0.5 pro Titania would be justified if I exclude HM boosts. Quote but silver knight has meh caps only the males Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 yeah, but lol @ using female silver knights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 I wouldn't discredit Astrid at any price. Strength + speed boost make it a bit more bearable to use her. Also in 3-11 you can seriously power level up her with silencer and parablossom, even in HM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 9 hours ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said: Looking at my votes and noticed a difference of 1.5 points between Oscar and Titania. I don't know what I was thinking right there. Seriously T Oscar > NT Titania because he can double every generic except for swordmasters and can even oneround snipers with the steel great lance. I overrated Titania a bit (I mean she can't double anyone except for axe and maybe lance generals and thunder sages) and underrated Oscar. A difference of 0.5 pro Titania would be justified if I exclude HM boosts. So transfers are a thing, here? e_é (I mean, why not, but...) I can see what you mean. Also, he 1RKO's every non SM/General, which may as well translate to "1RKO's consistently/everything important)". Fun fact, enemies at 3-1 are like 1 AS slower than the ones at 3-P, meaning base Oscar doubles from there on (because sealing the magical 24 AS is 1 point away). Since he pretty much caps both Skill & Spd in a level or two (starts with Skill capped, actually), he can BEXP his Str up (and even his Def, with an Angelic Robe) aka his only one real issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) As for the original voting I excluded transfer boosts. Even without them, a 7 is still too low for him. Oscar without transfers can still oneround the exact same enemies as Titania can. Titania has a higher output damage but she can't kill more than base Oscar can (except for giving her Boyd's killer axe). Indeed Oscar with strength + speed boost can oneround everyone except for swordmasters. He needs only one speed point to make use of bexp. so strength and defense can be fixed. If you give Titania the speed wing in 3-2, she'd be better than Oscar but only very slightly. Oscar still can oneround all the halberdiers, cavaliers and snipers while Titania migth oneround the dragon masters furthermore. Seriously the speed wing is better on Haar, if he has 21 speed at least to make him constantly double the enemies. However in the longrun Titania is better than Oscar, simply because axes are a better weapon type and female gold knights have slightly better weapon types and caps than male silver knights, but worse speed cap than female silver knights. Only Astrid and Fiona can reach the magical 34 speed cap for the endgame. At the end 0.5 points pro Titania seems to be fair. (if I would rank with transfers, then I'd rank him even higher than her simply because of his onerounding potential in part 3's earlygame) Also the enemies in 3-1 have pretty much the same level and speed as in 3-P. Never really saw that they became worse. snipers: 19 swordmasters: 23 halberdiers: 19-20 warriors: 20 lance generals: 17 axe generals: 16 sword generals: 18 fire sages: 17-18 thunder sages: 16 Edit: In 3-P the horseslayer general and the stl. great lance halberdier next to the boss are a bit higher leveled, but all the other enemies are the same as you fight in 3-1. PS: Still haven't fixed my votes yet. Will think about it now. Edited February 23, 2017 by Magillanica Lou Mayvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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