Healers In Heroes

[Rezzy]

I'm sure many others have found the same conclusion as me that as baseline, Healing in Heroes is pretty terrible at mid to max level.  My best example of this is my Maria, who is 5*.  At low levels, she was great, she could heal 8HP at 2 range with Physic, which is pretty great at low levels.  However, healing does not scale at all.  It heals 8HP at level 40, just like at level 1.  Physic's description claims it has an AoE heal, but it's either bugged or mistranslated, because it only heals a single target.

However, I've found there are some Healers that can still pull their weight at high levels, but it is skill dependent.  Maria has zero skills that increase her healing output, so she's pretty much useless.  However, I also have Wrys, and he does have skills that help him out.  For his spell, he gets Rehabilitate, which actually does scale a bit, since it heals units more, the lower their health is.  He can also get Imbue or Heavenly Light, which is either increased healing or 10HP to everybody, as well as access to Live to Serve, which heals him when he heals someone else.

[Ryuke]

I would say the best healer ... is the one that output best healing

Serra => Mend + Imbue.

Or if there's any... Maybe Physics + Imbue works well too given it has RANGE.

 

I believe the main focal point of healing is healing the person that need heal. Not the healing the healer. Since most healer dies in 1-2 hit.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Healing itself isn't really that horrible, you just have the healer whose main job is really, believe it or not, not healing. Physic definitely can't patch people up to super comfortable levels, so when using Maria (or Sakura), the rest of her kit takes priority, unless that extra health on the other unit will net you the kill immediately, or if you have the luxury of healing more than once. I speak mainly from experience from Sakura, though.

Panic is a decent offensive staff that mirrors enemy buffs into debuffs, and she has Fortify Res for making your own allies stronger. Her biggest boon is definitely Miracle, which allows you to be a little more risky with her to get a heal or Panic off. I personally don't think she's better than Sakura, though.

If you're looking for pure heals, then Wrys and Lissa are just better. They have the strongest healing staff in the game right now. Wrys is pretty much nothing but heals, though he does have the Slow staff, which is pretty useful. Lissa has Gravity instead, which is definitely harder to use, but also Kindled Fire Balm, so she can do more than just healing.

The Recover staff is also quite good. Healing 15 per turn is actually quite meaningful, since it's over 1/3 health for most units. Elise, Serra and Clarine have access to it iirc, but Elise is the best of the bunch.

@Ryuke Mend + Imbue actually heals less than Recover with a different Special Skill: 10+20+10 = 40 in three turns, while Recover heals 15+15+15 = 45.

Edited February 11, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Sartek]

3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

The Recover staff is also quite good. Healing 15 per turn is actually quite meaningful, since it's over 1/3 health for most units. Elise, Serra and Clarine have access to it iirc, but Elise is the best of the bunch.

Don't know about Serra but unfortunately, Clarine hasn't got access to Recover (her last staff is Martyr) Too bad, I would have 5* her without thinking twice if she had.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Sartek

[Rezzy]

8 minutes ago, Ryuke said:

I would say the best healer ... is the one that output best healing

Serra => Mend + Imbue.

Or if there's any... Maybe Physics + Imbue works well too given it has RANGE.

 

I believe the main focal point of healing is healing the person that need heal. Not the healing the healer. Since most healer dies in 1-2 hit.

Healing the healer is just a bonus.  Wrys isn't tanky at all, but he can sometimes take at least one hit.

Don't know about Serra but unfortunately, Clarine hasn't got access to Recover (her last staff is Martyr)

Yeah, healing that is dependent on the Healer having taken damage isn't the best design, since they can easily get one-shot.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Rezzy

[Ryuke]

@SatsumaFSoysoy You are right. Imbue and Recover works better. I never found Swift-X Balm useful. Probably because most of my unit already have high speed.

@Rezzy True..havent pushed my Wrys past 3 stars yet.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Ryuke

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Ryuke said:

 

@Rezzy True..havent pushed my Wrys past 3 stars yet.

Upgrade Wrys; he cannot fight (very well), but the staff he carries can heal your wounded.  Take him with you, and you'll be very glad you did!

[Ryuke]

6 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Upgrade Wrys; he cannot fight (very well), but the staff he carries can heal your wounded.  Take him with you, and you'll be very glad you did!

Haha.. I shall soon. 2000 feathers =S ... them 5* are really nice.

In any case. I might as well grind my Wrys 1*=>2* ... then Wrys 2* => 3* ... So I can get +2 Wrys (Assuming it stacks)

[Sire]

Sakura still works wonders for me with Mend+Imbue. Sure, I won't be winning any speedruns, but her healing, passive (+DEF to adjacent allies at start of turn) and Fear staff (-6 ATT to enemy units) makes her quite versatile for my team. [Ryoma, Sakura, Cain, Camilla || All 5* and 40 save for Sakura who is a 4* and around level 35.]

If I can get Elise, she would be another top pick for me due to her extra movement, Recover Staff, and Kindled-Fire Balm (+4 Attack Special). I can also use her somewhat as bait since she can heal herself with Live to Serve. The main things I lose with Elise when comparing to Sakura is the +DEF boost and the Fear staff. I have yet to use Gravity and see how useful that is, but it is annoying when used against me.

I also tried out Serra (while she has some good abilities, I couldn't stand her personality) and have Clarine. Clarine may be good if you want more of a buff/debuff unit (Fear Staff and +Speed), but I rather rely on straight up heals (Sakura's Mend + Imbue or Elise's Recover + Kindled-Fire Balm). Clarine has subpar healing in my experience, but the speed bonus is nice to set-up some kills or defend against high-speed units.

[Sylphid]

Using Clarine as my main healer, there're certainly times when I think she should either heal better or I could just use someone else.

But then stuff like the Narcian map happen, where her heals were vital part of my strategy (Tiki tanked first turn and baited the enemy to move after which she spent couple turns getting patched up and was ready to finish off who lyn couldn't)

[Thor Odinson]

I run a healer just for the heals. Imbue is pretty much all I need. 

Usually I run 2 attackers (Some combination of Ryoma/Takumi/Robin), Olivia, and Wrys. Wrys is like lv 22 but it doesn't even matter because his job is just to keep the offense squad alive long enough so they can go again with Olivia. If they really need an extra heal, then Olivia can also get Wrys to go again, and that means Imbue. 

[Friendly_Ram]

my favorite healer so far is clarine due to range and nice duo healing.

[Eilanzer]

For me a healer in the team is one less character doing damage and ending the fight faster and late game either you one doublehit something or die in doublehit to something =S

Edited February 11, 2017 by Eilanzer

[Chelone]

My Serra has saved me a lot though. Her buff sometimes gave me JUST the edge to do damage/finish someone off.

[eclipse]

Sakura for me.  Since I run someone with Seal Resistance, she's sometimes used for attacking.  I also have Still-Water Balm on her, because the rest of my team is somewhat weak to magic.  The Defense boost is a lifesaver, too.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Healing works the way it does here for balancing purposes. With how the weapon triangle works in the game, if you could just raise a healer with good ATK/MAG that can heal a triangle counter up to full easily like in the main games, you'd just destroy the difficulty completely for PvE and have no reason to have archers or throwing weapon users as your 4th slot.

Best healing potential in the game as far as I know would be Martyr + Imbue and this combination is held by Clarine as an example. She's currently 5* but I remember that as 4* level 40, she had 33 HP.

You have her take a hit, let's say she took 20 damage. Her next heal will be 27 and you add 10 to that if Imbue is activating, but hell, the 27 alone is often enough to place someone back to full anyway. Of course, since it's the best healing in the game, it comes at a price where it's mitigated because she heals herself too for half the damage she suffered (in this example, 10) so you pretty much have to manipulate the situation for her to be constantly hurt but still alive.

Now here's an interesting tidbit, if your team is mobile and uses Brave Weapons, you could outright ditch a colorless for the last slot and just put in a Singer/Dancer for similar value.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Sire]

After checking the math done by Dr. Tarrasque in another topic (put below for reference, the blue is my highlight), I can now see why Clarine is rated so highly on the Tier List. Martyr is essentially an advanced Reconcile that adds additional healing to the target based off of the Healer's current HP while recovering the Healer's HP by a certain amount.

Since Clarine can output so much healing, she can focus on using her +SPD skill instead, further boosting the party's effectiveness. However, while she is capable of great heals, it will have to be managed properly for full effectiveness (which is why Recovery and its flat rate may be better in certain scenarios).

Personally, I can see Clarine doing great in Tower runs or in Story Mode, but I am uncertain how effective she will be on "offensive" Arena teams. Giving the current meta, I can see Clarine only taking hits from Robin or a Dragon (Tiki, Nowi, etc.), everyone else (Takumi, Lyn, Lucina, etc) will kill Clarine easily. [Note: I have not actually checked the actual values, I am just theorizing here.]

Quote

For the highest consistent healing that requires no thinking from the player, you want someone that's learned Recover which is 15 HP every time.

For the actual highest healing which does require input from the player, you want someone that's learned Martyr which is 7 HP + the damage the healer has taken. You will match Recover when your healer is missing 8 HP and if they're missing more, you beat Recover.

 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Best healing potential in the game as far as I know would be Martyr + Imbue and this combination is held by Clarine as an example. She's currently 5* but I remember that as 4* level 40, she had 33 HP.

Wrys and Lissa's Rehabilitate actually has the highest possible healing in this game.

+HP 5* Clarine can reach 38 HP at Level 40, which means the max that Martyr can recover (when she is left at 1 HP) is 37 + 7 = 44. Goes up to 54 with Imbue.

5* Hector, the most common and best tank in the game (and pretty much the guy you'll be healing all the time) can reach 55 HP at Level 40 with boon. According to this formula, when Hector is left with 1 HP, he will be healed:

2*(55/2 - 1) + 7
= 2*(27.5 - 1) + 7
= 2*26.5 + 7
= 53 + 7
= 60 (70 with Imbue)

I'm not even sure if Hector has the highest possible HP stat to begin with, so this number could go even higher if there is someone with more HP. In addition, it's been shown here that no matter what your maximum HP is, if your remaining HP is below 7, Rehabilitate will always heal you to full. Kinda crazy.

In terms of pure healing output, Martyr and Rehabilitate are equally viable, but Martyr is much much riskier to use. Getting Clarine to low health is harder and riskier than getting someone else to low health. Also, you basically only get one massive heal, and then you'll have to try and get hit again to have good healing. On the other hand, Rehabilitate doesn't place your healer at risk, but it requires your other units to be placed in risky situations to have the best effect. However, since the best attackers and units in general are moderately squishy, your units will spend a lot of time with low health, giving Rehabilitate a strong purpose.

HP numbers from here http://altema.jp/fe-heroes/

Edited February 12, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Good stuff, I was just looking around for other healing spells in the game and noticed that on Wrys and Lissa and wondered what the formula for it was since all it said "below 50%". On most of my arena runs, my units rarely go below 50% if it's not just straight up dying to Hector BS or Skills.  Rehabilitate wins! Although I still find Martyr to be the better spell for me to use, it's never too difficult for me to manage Clarine's HP unless I fuck up on reading the attack zones.

I recommend you forward that to Vincent so he may add it to a calculations page for the game if any will be made (or just have the details on the site).

Edited February 12, 2017 by Dr. Tarrasque

[autismoe]

While training some lowbies in the tower, I found Martyr has good synergy with characters who have Reciprocal Aid. I was using Matthew who was chipping away from afar, and whenever he took damage he just swapped HP with my Clarine. This way Clarine got low HP safely and could use Martyr effectively. My Clarine feels so squishy and slow, so I find it hard to have her take a hit. I'm considering training a Donnel to synergize with her as he also has Reciprocal Aid and a decent skill kit.

[eclipse]

39 minutes ago, autismoe said:

While training some lowbies in the tower, I found Martyr has good synergy with characters who have Reciprocal Aid. I was using Matthew who was chipping away from afar, and whenever he took damage he just swapped HP with my Clarine. This way Clarine got low HP safely and could use Martyr effectively. My Clarine feels so squishy and slow, so I find it hard to have her take a hit. I'm considering training a Donnel to synergize with her as he also has Reciprocal Aid and a decent skill kit.

With Clarine's +Spd to everyone, I think Donnel would have better synergy.  It also explains why I feel like Donnel was dead weight on my team - I didn't have the proper characters to make him useful!  I'd also run Olivia, so that your team gets a constant +4 Speed boost (which isn't that hard, especially if you're prone to leaving Olivia out as bait. . .stop looking at me like that, it's a totally legit tactic. . .).

[Dragonslayer9x]

I prefer the DPS healers to the focused healers. My main healer on my high level team is Felicia, and for the most part her healing is purely situational (but often gives other members enough health to tank 1 more hit, which is all you need). For the most part her job is to soften up stuff so that Cain can go murder it and if she happens to heal someone for doing it, bonus! I have a 4 star Lissa on an alt team that I'm leveling, and I've found I have to attack with her more simply because the exp for purely healing is absolutely garbage. Healing seems to be in a bit of an awkward place.

[WaffleBacon]

I think there are 2 general ways to play in arena. Its either defensively or agressively. If you play aggressively it better to use characters who has high speed and can counter from 2 spaces namely, takumi, ryouma, hector, nowi. If you play defensively though healer is a very important character. I use serra personally since she can heal up to 25. Personally, i play defensively due to bad summons (by bad summons i mean no good agressive heroes). For defensive play the best tank is effie. I know what you are thinking, "hector is no doubt the best" is what you are thinking. But let me tell you, hector is shit. Here is why, first, his skill is top notch, but not for tanking. His skills would be best if he can walk at least 2 tiles. In arena you can simply kite him. Second reason, he is green. So whats bad about green you ask? In the current meta, due to the bias in summon focus, most of them are red, namely, tiki, lucina, etc. And Tiki can kill hector like a kid. So back to Effie. So why is she good? Three reasons in fact, wary fighter, she is blue and her attack stat. Pretty much the same reason why Hector is bad but the complete opposite. So what is wary fighter? At level 3, it makes both the you and the enemy to attack only once regardless of your speed in the condition that you have more than 50%hp. Thats what makes effie best with a healer. At level 40, his hp is 50 even at medium IV. Even takumi will have a hard time dealing with that especially if you are forced to just attack once. Now the 2nd reason, she is blue. Yeah, being blue is an advantage in the current meta. The 3rd reason is her attack. Its freaking 55 attack at medium IV, 58 if high. With deadly blow her damage can go up to a wopping 64 damage. I shit you not. You can easily kill enemies even if you only attack once. Red characters stand no chance to effie. With decent defence, any physical attacks cant easily kill her even if its green. So now youve read this, you might think effie is a perfect character. Well, not really. Her bane is that her resistance is mediocre at best which is 26. This means mages can damage her a huge chunk especially green mages. In my experience, the worst enemy is Linde. Really... Insane damage. But in my experience with effie. Ive never seen her die in 1 attack. She will die if she is focused or being ganged by at least 2. But with serra which can heal her up to 25, they will have a really hard time killing her especially if you position effie properly. My line up is Tiki, Leo, Effie, and Serra. 2 tanks so that i can change fronts depending on the enemy like its green or red. So why tiki? IMO tiki is one of the most well rounded character in FEH. Skills are great, and her stat growth is one of the best. If im not mistaken only next to Fae. With her high defence and stats she is a very viable tank. And finally lets talk about Leo. First and foremost, Leo isnt very good. Sub-par stats simply can make him good. But his skills are top notch. He can slow enemies, damage 7 to every character within 2 spaces of his target. And can counter attack twice regardless of speed. So why did i use him if he is sub-par? Main reason is his mobility and his high resistance. I use him as a distraction or snipe important targets such as healers. Plus he can tank decently. IMO he is good if he has good IV. Specifically if his attack has high IV. If you didnt get a high IV Leo he is simply trash. He cant damage and just be a decoration.

Ow yeah what is IV? Its initial value. It is divided into 3. High, medium, and low IV. You can never get a full high IVs. Currently is either all medium IV, 1 high 1 low and 3 med IV, and 2 high 2 low, and 1 medium IV

Edited February 17, 2017 by WaffleBacon

[Roflolxp54]

Having a healer on the team may mean less damage output but it can mean the 3 other units being able to fight more on the map. At worst, the healer can be an effective distraction, saving the life of one party member and allowing said party member to get the kill. A high level healer can make for an effective meatshield when training lower-level units due to the healer being unable to retaliate at melee range (and by that point, the healer should be bulky enough to tank hits).

Healers also have an easy time farming SP since they can get SP as long as they can get EXP for healing a teammate. My lv. 40 4-star Lissa is now sitting around with over 1700 SP and nothing to use it on (the only unlearned skill remaining for her is Renewal 3 and that's a 5-star unlock).

[Rezzy]

12 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Having a healer on the team may mean less damage output but it can mean the 3 other units being able to fight more on the map. At worst, the healer can be an effective distraction, saving the life of one party member and allowing said party member to get the kill. A high level healer can make for an effective meatshield when training lower-level units due to the healer being unable to retaliate at melee range (and by that point, the healer should be bulky enough to tank hits).

Healers also have an easy time farming SP since they can get SP as long as they can get EXP for healing a teammate. My lv. 40 4-star Lissa is now sitting around with over 1700 SP and nothing to use it on (the only unlearned skill remaining for her is Renewal 3 and that's a 5-star unlock).

My team for raising low level units is now Wrys, Maria, Olivia, runt.